Thunes to acquire payments platform Tilia LLC

[BilliJo Aldrin]

21 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Well then, if you are correct, "selling it off" means it should still "exist" after the sale, right?

That's good news!

 

it totally depends on who buys it. My vote is for Elon Musk. 😁

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

27 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Well then, if you are correct, "selling it off" means it should still "exist" after the sale, right?

That's good news!

 

it totally depends on who buys it. My vote is for Elon Musk. 😁

Selling Sansar totally worked out for Sansar, right? 

..right..?

 

[Anna Salyx]

Ultima Online launched in 1997.... 27 ish years ago, give or take a couple of months. It's by no means what I would consider a commercial bonanza or cash cow.   Yet it It's still got active development and must make enough to pay for it's underlying infrastructure (rent, servers, electric, comms, salaries, etc) to justify it's continue presence in the world of Online Entertainment. 

Not wholly apples to oranges, but a realistic take is that so long as Second Life has enough income to balance the sheets and then some for a modest profit to.... whomever, it's going to stick around. Ultima has been sold a couple of times I think, and the current owners being Broadsword Online Games who gives it enough love and attention to keep the heartbeat alive.

So, will Second Life ultimately get sold?

It's a possibility to be sure.  That's just a cold reality.  But the real kickers is is that we as residents really don't know what the balance sheets for Linden Lab are in regards this IP nor what projects they are piggy backing off of Second LIfe.  For example, they are developing a new voice service to bring that tech in house and using Second Life as the test bed for it. That project may end up getting packaged up and sold to other interested parties down the line. So while for the residents Second Life is an online social platform, for Linden Lab, it that and maybe a little or a lot more.  Whatever their plans are, keeping it as a test bed, keeping as just a virtual social space, or selling it off to a third party, so long as it's paying it's way and making someone money somewhere, I really don't see it going away for a long time.

But then, I'm ever an optimist.  I prefer to not live in a world of perpetual shadows.

[Qie Niangao]

What they sell or keep is an exercise in portfolio management. I'm sure they sold Tilia at the very peak of its potential value as a semi-standalone Linden subsidiary, and sold it to somebody who can take it beyond that peak by integrating it with other products and services they offer.

That will apply to Second Life, too: if it gets to be more valuable sold than kept, it'll become somebody else's asset to manage as part of that new owner's portfolio. At the moment it's pretty difficult (for me) to tell if the substantial investments they're making in Second Life is to gussy it up for sale or to maintain and expand its ongoing earnings potential.

Either way, if the virtual reality metaverse weren't in a stagnant backwater of the hype cycle, they'd target (re-)development of that instead of mobile and industry-compatible content creation (glTF, viewer-side LUA, …). But a new owner, with other related products, would have different development priorities. So if you don't like mobile, pray SL sells to… oh, why not? Salesforce!

(One minor point: There is zero chance they'll retire debt they took on a few years ago. They may redirect that capital in arbitrary ways, but they could make a profit just buying T-bills with those old loans.)

[Love Zhaoying]

16 minutes ago, Anna Salyx said:

But the real kickers is is that we as residents really don't know what the balance sheets for Linden Lab are in regards this IP nor what projects they are piggy backing off of Second LIfe.  For example, they are developing a new voice service to bring that tech in house and using Second Life as the test bed for it. That project may end up getting packaged up and sold to other interested parties down the line. So while for the residents Second Life is an online social platform, for Linden Lab, it that and maybe a little or a lot more.  Whatever their plans are, keeping it as a test bed, keeping as just a virtual social space, or selling it off to a third party, so long as it's paying it's way and making someone money somewhere, I really don't see it going away for a long time.

Interesting, from this I realized that the Mobile development may in fact be something LL plans to sell for others to use, also!

 

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

There is zero chance they'll retire debt they took on a few years ago. They may redirect that capital in arbitrary ways, but they could make a profit just buying T-bills with those old loans.

Interesting!

My own company stays out of debt and in fact loans their surplus cash to other companies for purchases.  So, the idea of "keeping debt" being a positive thing, just hasn't occurred to me.

[Nika Talaj]

2 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

this suggests that the goal is to make SL more "sellable" so it can be offloaded as well, like Tilla, and Sansar, so the takeover triumvirate can move on to new targets.

....

Obviously those Masai Warriors living in traditional villages in Kenya, who don't have electricity, cell phone towers, .. 

Couple of questions for you . First: Who do you see as a potential buyer for SL? The platform itself is old, creaky, probably unmaintainable by anyone who doesn't already know the codebase well. Or is it the user accounts you think are valuable? You think someone is going to be tremendously interested in a database of people who mostly engage only in microtransactions, and where the inactive accounts with obsolete financial data outnumber the active accounts? Educate me, what am I missing. 

The question I ask myself is: why are any of the executive staff still in place? Both Patch and Grumpity have marketable skills.

There are a lot of possible reasons. They could each have been given stratospheric compensation packages so that they will stick around until SL becomes empty and/or completely unmaintainable. But...why? 

The most obvious answer is usually the correct one. Given that SL's value as an acquisition target is not high, perhaps there is a desire on some employees' parts to continue SL for as long as it is self-sustaining, for the sake of the lives within it. Who knows, they may even be able to grow it somehow, or perhaps the mobile client has been done in a general enough way to make it useful in more applications than SL. There are more things in heaven and earth, Zali, than are dreamt of in your capitalism.

Second:  Have you been to Africa lately? I agree with you that it's probably not a big potential market for SL, but newsflash, the bulk of the population is not walking around in animal skins without cell access. Depending on the country, there are some vibrant economies and rapidly evolving societies. So please let's ratchet back on The stereotyping.

[Love Zhaoying]

17 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

Second:  Have you been to Africa lately? I agree with you that it's probably not a big potential market for SL, but newsflash, the bulk of the population is not walking around in animal skins without cell access.

My understanding was, everyone has cell access and uses a simple universal cell app for monetary transactions, in most countries that some would call "backwards".  Those same countries are now effectively "cashless", and so in actuality more "advanced" than the so-called "first world" countries.

ETA: Google is my friend:

"Mobile money is a digital payment system that allows users to send and receive money, pay bills, and purchase airtime and other digital products using their mobile phones. It's the most dominant form of digital payment in Africa, especially in Sub-Saharan Africa, where 144 mobile money providers operate."

And: from https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/03/mobile-payments-africa-covid-pandemic

84% of internet users in Kenya and 60% in Nigeria regularly made payments with mobile phones in 2021.

Several African governments encouraged people to use mobile payments instead of cash to try and limit the spread of COVID-19.

Mobile payments help with financial inclusion in African countries, where many people still don't have bank accounts.

Edited April 26 by Love Zhaoying

[Jaylinbridges]

2 hours ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

Not true. As late as last week, the LL management page showed some of these people responsible for SL and Tilia. if not just Tilia alone. The point is Tilia was entirely removed from job positions. (https://lindenlab.com/about)

The Jan 6, 2024 page I referenced, and the present page for  https://lindenlab.com/about are identical.  If two pages are identical, then how can one of them be "not true"?  I fail to follow your logic that 1 does not equal 1.  Do I need to show screen shots of both the present and Jan 6 Management to show they are the same?

If you are thinking that a lack of a title means anything, than the last time Tilia was shown after a management position was on August 11, 2023.  In this case two Tilia employees had Tilia, and two did not. And two of the LL employees showed Second Life after their position, and two did not. This all means absolutely nothing at all. 

 Here are the August 11, 2023 Management Positions:

And here are the Management positions on Dec 25, 2023:  

Starting in 2024 the Management has not changed after two SL VP level positions were eliminated at the first of the year, and there are two apparent promotions to Sr VP in SL.

Edited April 26 by Jaylinbridges

[Love Zhaoying]

11 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

The Jan 6, 2024 page I referenced, and the present page for  https://lindenlab.com/about are identical.  If two pages are identical, then how can one of them be "not true"?  I fail to follow your logic that 1 does not equal 1.  Do I need to show screen shots of both the present and Jan 6 Management to show they are the same?

If you are thinking that a lack of a title means anything, than the last time Tilia was shown after a management position was on August 11, 2023.  In this case two Tilia employees had Tilia, and two did not. And two of the LL employees showed Second Life after their position, and two did not. This all means absolutely nothing at all. 

 Here are the August 11, 2023 Management Positions:

And here are the Management positions on Dec 25, 2023:  

Starting in 2024 the Management has not changed, although there are two apparent promotions to Sr VP in SL.

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

9 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

Second:  Have you been to Africa lately? I agree with you that it's probably not a big potential market for SL, but newsflash, the bulk of the population is not walking around in animal skins without cell access. Depending on the country, there are some vibrant economies and rapidly evolving societies. So please let's ratchet back on The stereotyping.

The stereotyping iss coming from the Positiivity Cultists...

 

"But... But... Fake Money Crypto-Crap Enablers Inc of Singapore will allow those POOR people in 'Under-Banked' Africa to finally send money to SSL for a Pwemium sub, and a belli house!"

 

These people talk about Africa as if they don't have banks there, or connections to Western Banking networks, and only St. Thunes can save the planet!.

 

Never occurred to them that places like Kenya have perfectly good banks, and perfectly good access to international banking systems, and credit cards for those who can afford them.

No, they sseem to think some poor African, is DYING to log into SSL with their whyPhone, but can't because there's no mobile app, and without St. Thunes, no way to get their money out of Africa.

 

Reality is, that St. Thunes, has NOTHING to do with access to 3rd World markets, NOTHING.

It's strictly a B2B enabler, for shifting crypto from Tax Evasion Havens to the world banking system and back.

 

17 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

Couple of questions for you . First: Who do you see as a potential buyer for SL?

The only buyers I could imagine for SL are either somebody nut with a lot of pocket change who has secretly enjoyed SL for a decade or more, and wants to own it so it wont close down,.

Or.

Some failed "metaverse" rival, who'd want to close SL, with a "preferential migrant" package for the active users, in the hopes that transplanting the SL user base will save their multi billion $ fiasco, for a cost of a few hundred million in buyout fees.

 

22 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

The question I ask myself is: why are any of the executive staff still in place? Both Patch and Grumpity have marketable skills.

Do they? Traditionally, working for LL seems to have been a "dead end" for many, nobody wants you after you worked here.

 

23 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

perhaps there is a desire on some employees' parts to continue SL for as long as it is self-sustaining

Very possible.

But we're not talking about the employees here, but the OWNERS. If SL gets sold off for a quick buck by the OWNERS to people who will shut it down and break it up for scrap, the employees lose out even more than we do.

 

20 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

My understanding

Hahahahaha.

 

21 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Those same countries are now effectively "cashless", and so in actuality more "advanced" than the so-called "first world" countries.

Most places seem to be "more cashless" than the USA. Here in the UK, pretty much every store has cashless payment options, even the "food trucks" take cashless payment by credit/debit cards or smartphone apps.

 

Indeed the whole banking situation in places like Kenya, Nigeria, Ghana, etc., is why I laugh so hard at the "positivity Cult" claptrap about how the Blessed St. Thunes of Crypto-Crap Transer will SAVE those POOR people from not being able to spend $99 on a "Pwemium Subscwiption" like Califorrnians do.

 

The poster of that nonsense comes across as a paid Thunes Shill, who actually thinks 95% of SecondLifers live in California.

 

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

it totally depends on who buys it. My vote is for Elon Musk. 😁

Same for me. If Elon bought it I would have some level of confidence and hope that it would be of benefit to residents. I'd suspect a major purge of employees but that might just be what is needed.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

31 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

My understanding

Hahahahaha.

Hahahahaha! From the classic punk compilation, "Let Them Eat Jellybeans":

 

Edited April 26 by Love Zhaoying

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

The poster of that nonsense comes across as a paid Thunes Shill, who actually thinks 95% of SecondLifers live in California.

OMG! You've stooped to the level of calling people "shills".

Now I have absolutely no reason to respect your opinions.  

Cool!

 

[Indy Melody]

I can't help wondering if the USA tax rule for 1099-K reporting might also be part of this decision: The IRS Delays Reporting Changes For Venmo, CashApp And Other Payment Apps – Forbes Advisor

[Zalificent Corvinus]

43 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Interesting!

My own company stays out of debt and in fact loans their surplus cash to other companies for purchases.  So, the idea of "keeping debt" being a positive thing, just hasn't occurred to me.

There's a real estate company here in the UK that specialises in commercial property.

 

Some years back, they had a £500 million portfolio of property, and ZERO cash. "Book Value" £500 million.

So, they SOLD £300 million worth of property to a bank, THEN leased BACK the property they sold, incurring substantial rent/lease payments.

Then they claimed that they owned 200 millions worth, controlled 300 millions worth, AND had 300 million in cash, and that therefore their "Book Value" was now £800 million, a 60% increase which raised share prices substantially, and then the board voted themselves big fat "performance related" pay bonuses.

 

By REAL WORLD accounting, they sold off 60% of their assets because they were broke, then wasted a big chunk of that renting back what they sold, and their new "book value" was just smoke and mirrors and snake oil.

Edited April 26 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Eirynne Sieyes]

30 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

The Jan 6, 2024 page I referenced, and the present page for  https://lindenlab.com/about are identical.  If two pages are identical, then how can one of them be "not true"?  I fail to follow your logic that 1 does not equal 1.  Do I need to show screen shots of both the present and Jan 6 Management to show they are the same?

If you are thinking that a lack of a title means anything, than the last time Tilia was shown after a management position was on August 11, 2023.  In this case two Tilia employees had Tilia, and two did not. And two of the LL employees showed Second Life after their position, and two did not. This all means absolutely nothing at all. 

 Here are the August 11, 2023 Management Positions:

And here are the Management positions on Dec 25, 2023:  

Starting in 2024 the Management has not changed, although there are two apparent promotions to Sr VP in SL.

Thank you for the images! The staff is the same, but in the latter Tilia is taken out of anybody's responsibility. Nobody is in charge of Tilia any longer. Note Aston and Johnson were solely assigned to Tilia.

[Jaylinbridges]

37 minutes ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

Thank you for the images! The staff is the same, but in the latter Tilia is taken out of anybody's responsibility. Nobody is in charge of Tilia any longer. Note Aston and Johnson were solely assigned to Tilia.

Sorry, but as I said, the company associations meant nothing because they were inconsistent all along.  And after August 2023, there were NO company associations listed.  I blame this on the web page designer, who probably was never told who belonged to what company.  Probably a gig worker hired for one week.  Tilia employees are STILL Tilia employees until the final papers are signed, and then they will be Thunes employees, no longer part of Linden Lab.  But until then Tilia exists as does their employees.

Once Thunes owns Tilia they will change their name to Thunes, also called rebranding.  And Thunes gains a shiny new office in San Francisco, only their second office in the States so far.

I am sorry Love is so confused by images that he thinks it's a cartoon for kids.

Edited April 26 by Jaylinbridges

[Ceka Cianci]

35 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

There's a real estate company here in the UK that specialises in commercial property.

 

Some years back, they had a £500 million portfolio of property, and ZERO cash. "Book Value" £500 million.

So, they SOLD £300 million worth of property to a bank, THEN leased BACK the property they sold, incurring substantial rent/lease payments.

Then they claimed that they owned 200 millions worth, controlled 300 millions worth, AND had 300 million in cash, and that therefore their "Book Value" was now £800 million, a 60% increase which raised share prices substantially, and then the board voted themselves big fat "performance related" pay bonuses.

 

By REAL WORLD accounting, they sold off 60% of their assets because they were broke, then wasted a big chunk of that renting back what they sold, and their new "book value" was just smoke and mirrors and snake oil.

That' sounds sorta similar to the stacking of triple A mortgages on top of B  mortgages that caused the 2008 banking crisis.. hehehe

[Love Zhaoying]

7 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

I am sorry Love is so confused by images that he thinks it's cartoon for kids.

I was pointing out, gently, that you were being just a tad bit pedantic. Sorry!

 

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

That' sounds sorta similar to the stacking of triple A mortgages on top of B  mortgages that caused the 2008 banking crisis.. hehehe

But it's SMART if people in the UK do it! So Sayeth the Zal! 

Edited April 26 by Love Zhaoying

[Love Zhaoying]

44 minutes ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

Thank you for the images! The staff is the same, but in the latter Tilia is taken out of anybody's responsibility. Nobody is in charge of Tilia any longer. Note Aston and Johnson were solely assigned to Tilia.

It makes sense that Tilia would be removed from the Org chart the minute it is officially a "separate company".

[Ceka Cianci]

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

But it's SMART if people in the UK do it! So Sayeth the Zal! 

In the U.S. case. Everyone wanted to point fingers at everyone else, when everyone at all levels was to blame.. hehehe

I'm not sure what went on in other countries, but ya, living paper rich, in debt up to the ears, was the in thing in the U.S.. If you used cash you were out of style.. lol

 

[Jaylinbridges]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

It makes sense that Tilia would be removed from the Org chart the minute it is officially a "separate company".

Which has nothing to do with the present conversation.  The sun is shiny too, unless it's cloudy or nightime.  Tilia has not been removed from any Linden Lab chart yet.  And there have been no companies listed since last August for the LL management chart.   There is no company listed for the Second Life management either.  Does this mean Second Life is sold too?  

 

Edited April 26 by Jaylinbridges
Changed "titles" to company.

[Alwin Alcott]

53 minutes ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

Thank you for the images! The staff is the same, but in the latter Tilia is taken out of anybody's responsibility. Nobody is in charge of Tilia any longer. Note Aston and Johnson were solely assigned to Tilia.

here's the info on tilia's own page

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