Should SL be cleaned up- based on last login date?

[Paul Hexem]

Should regular logins be required to keep content active in SL on the marketplace and in-world?

If someone hasn't logged in for months or years, should their stuff still be on sale despite being abandonware? How about returning items to their inventory from in-world?

[Stephanie Misfit]

How regular? Items are already removed from the marketplaces of merchants who don't log in, under the following conditions -

 

[CaithLynnSayes]

Only if they have 5 Unicode stars in their shop name!

[Alwin Alcott]

49 minutes ago, Mistress Morbid said:

How regular? Items are already removed from the marketplaces of merchants who don't log in, under the following conditions -

 

Those rules should be tighter. Remove the sales condition. For marketplace clutter sake, the least to expect from a merchant is comming back on a regular base.
Now it''s more like, we did get your 3 cts salestax , you'r allowed to try another year for our next 3 cts

Edited November 3, 2023 by Alwin Alcott

[Stephanie Misfit]

2 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

Those rules should be tighter. Remove the sales condition. For marketplace clutter sake, the least to expect from a merchant is comming back on a regular base.
Now it''s more like, we did get your 3 cts salestax , you'r allowed to try another year for our next 3 cts

Yes, tightening the rules up would go some way to stopping the issue of absentee sellers who don't provide support for their products. I have been caught out by this before as a customer on the marketplace.

[Qie Niangao]

The Marketplace clean-up measures are long overdue, although I might have instead migrated products (and stores) to a whole separate search catalog rather than delisting them completely, and maybe that way be more aggressive with the clean-up criteria. There are some very old items I wish were still available to cite for reference (although removed I assume by the creator before these clean up measures were put in place) but probably haven't sold in ages. (For example, I'm thinking of Learjeff Innis' "Easy Sit Target Positioner" which was part of an early effort with Lex Neva and others to reverse engineer how a sit target actually positions the avatar.)

At one point I suggested, only half in jest, that builds should be subject to "prim rot" so untended builds would gradually vanish from the grid. There was never any practical definition of "gradually vanish" and mesh hasn't made it any more practical, but I still think there's something fundamentally bizarre about what is and isn't preserved as part of our digital heritage, with SL builds making stark examples.

[Anna Nova]

I just don't buy from Marketplace, ever. Simples.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Mistress Morbid said:

Yes, tightening the rules up would go some way to stopping the issue of absentee sellers who don't provide support for their products. I have been caught out by this before as a customer on the marketplace.

Not all products NEED 24/7 ongoing support.

If I sell you a full perm texture pack, what exactly do you expect by way of support? - "I didn't like texture 7/10, please send me a different texture free"

If I sell you a shape for Brand X Heads Model Y, and Meshbody Z, does that need support, and regular updates to not be "Abandonware", and what do you expect? - "Hi, I stopped wearing brand X model Y, can you update my shape with one for Brand X Model Q, free of course, thanks"

 

People throw terms like "Abandonware" about with insane regularity.

There was a thread on these forums a few years back, where some clown claimed Maitreya Lara 4.1 was "Abandonware" because it had been OVER 12 months since the last update, they also demanded that people should be able to LEGALLY copybot "Abandonware" products, and "improve and reupload them as their own work.

 

So what is the REAL outcome of the "Hate Filled Bigot Purge of the MP".

One brand that had a TWO FULL REGION mainstore selling full perm mesh construction pieces for builders, had a store on the MP, almost nobody actually bought stoff off the MP, MP was how you found the brand, you went and saw the items inworld, to personally check the lods etc, then you bought the stuff, because it looked pretty good, was low LI, and because the 2nd sim had a FULL SIZE Cathedral built of the stuff, and it looked amazing.

But some people demanded an MP purge, the zero selling store was nuked, no new customers found the brand, they went under. Well done, one of the two best building kit makers in SL shut two full regions, costing LL $600 a month in Land Fees.

 

Because of a suggestion exactly like this one.

 

And THIS time, we're supposed to clear land that people are paying for. That's also not a new demand.

Last time the Land Clearing was demanded, the poster in that thread claimed it should ONLY apply to mesh builds owned by people who joined AFTER 2008, so as to leave "Historic builds in Classic Prim" alone as museum pieces.

 

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

Should regular logins be required to keep content active in SL on the marketplace and in-world?

If someone hasn't logged in for months or years, should their stuff still be on sale despite being abandonware? How about returning items to their inventory from in-world?

I agree with @Zalificent Corvinus , never return stuff from land that is still being paid for. Shut down their online store if you want, but items on paid up land should never be touched.

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

14 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Last time the Land Clearing was demanded, the poster in that thread claimed it should ONLY apply to mesh builds owned by people who joined AFTER 2008, so as to leave "Historic builds in Classic Prim" alone as museum pieces.

 

 

Some  have suggested that all prim builds created by the common rabble should be returned, and no new ones allowed. Mesh builds for everyone 😂

[Alwin Alcott]

24 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Some  have ..

yes some have, but that's not the subject here.
Pointing to things in the past and posters that aren't engaged in this thread , but 'ever' said something is irrelevant.
(not you) is the same for making posts rediculous as some replies do. Sometimes it can be a bit of fun, but not all the time.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Alwin Alcott

[Zalificent Corvinus]

7 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

Pointing to things in the past and posters that aren't engaged in this thread , but 'ever' said something is irrelevant.

How exactly is "This suggestion has been made before, it was destructive rubbish then and is still destructive rubbish now" irrelevant ?

 

How is pointing out that bulldozing peoples builds because they didn't log in for a few months, but STILL EXPECTING THEM TO PAY, is a destructive idea that will lose customers, irrelevant ?

 

I don't have to make this suggestion ridiculous, as it already IS ridiculous.

[Island Granville]

Marketplace - maybe? There's stuff there that's built in the 10m prim size limit days. I'm not judging old builds, but that much prim wastage is almost a crime. Any vendor who cares would have updated their builds by now, and if they don't care and are still actively flogging their bloated *****, they deserve to have it yanked. I say that as someone who plays a 172 prim saxophone I built 15 years ago - but I'm not trying to sell it to anyone.

World - not so sure. I took a 10 year break from SL, and when I returned a couple of years ago my terrible prim built sky home was still floating on my unsupported group land, exactly as I left it. It gave me a solid base from which to rediscover SL and its decade of changes. Having a home I remembered was a huge asset to my retention as a returned "Oh yeah, I remember SL..." user. If everything was gone, I might not have stayed. But that's just my experience - I'm grateful for the lenience that LL showed to insignificant delinquent groups defaulting on small undesirable parcels.

As far as cleaning up other people's abandoned floating plywood? If they're paying for it, it's their creative choice. If they're not paying for it, or they don't associate with a group that owns the land? Kill the eyesores at ground level, leave it alone in the sky in case they love it.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

The Marketplace clean-up measures are long overdue, although I might have instead migrated products (and stores) to a whole separate search catalog rather than delisting them completely, and maybe that way be more aggressive with the clean-up criteria. There are some very old items I wish were still available to cite for reference (although removed I assume by the creator before these clean up measures were put in place) but probably haven't sold in ages. (For example, I'm thinking of Learjeff Innis' "Easy Sit Target Positioner" which was part of an early effort with Lex Neva and others to reverse engineer how a sit target actually positions the avatar.)

At one point I suggested, only half in jest, that builds should be subject to "prim rot" so untended builds would gradually vanish from the grid. There was never any practical definition of "gradually vanish" and mesh hasn't made it any more practical, but I still think there's something fundamentally bizarre about what is and isn't preserved as part of our digital heritage, with SL builds making stark examples.

I guess when styles and tastes change, its best to destroy old stuff that doesn't meet your current aestetic

[BilliJo Aldrin]

I could have referenced confederate statues, but I KNOW people don't want to go there 😂

 

[Orwar]

   I think the MP clean-up routine they have sounds quite reasonable. There's a whole lot of old junk still but either people must be buying it or the merchant is still kicking around - in which case it's their prerogative to have stuff on the MP.

   In-world .. Well as long as the land is being paid for, why should it be treated any differently?

[Love Zhaoying]

3 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

Should regular logins be required to keep content active in SL on the marketplace and in-world?

If someone hasn't logged in for months or years, should their stuff still be on sale despite being abandonware? How about returning items to their inventory from in-world?

1. Yes/No. 

2. No.

3. No.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

52 minutes ago, Island Granville said:

There's stuff there that's built in the 10m prim size limit days. I'm not judging old builds, but that much prim wastage is almost a crime. Any vendor who cares would have updated their builds by now, and if they don't care and are still actively flogging their bloated *****, they deserve to have it yanked.

That, however is not the suggestion.

The suggestion is based on last login, so lets say you set the limit at a year. A sweet, lean & mean LI build that's aesthetically pleasing, by somebody taking a sabbatical from SL, gets yanked, but that 10m square plywood crapola from 2006, is kept because the no-talent no-care vendor logged in on the first of the month as they always do, to collect their pennies from the sales of that stuff.

 

This isn't a proposal to remove low quality items, or even old items, it's purely based on last login date.

 

You make top quality items that you maintain, support and sell well, but you spent 4 months in hospital after a serious accident, and some clown decided 3 months is the purge timer limit, you're store gets nuked, somebody else uploaded a copy botted system layer, back in 2006, it's still there today because they log in once a month.

 

[Qie Niangao]

45 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I guess when styles and tastes change, its best to destroy old stuff that doesn't meet your current aestetic

Style has really nothing to do with what I was discussing. (And FWIW I've long been an advocate for retaining prim builds in resistance to the "all mesh" partisans.) I'm talking about "decay" of abandoned digital content, something more graceful than the current all-or-nothing treatment inherited from a binary representation. The point is that we're accustomed by RL experience to things deteriorating over time unless maintained, where that deterioration itself adds character and indicates the passage of time. In the digital realm, the old game cartridge still loads or it doesn't, the SL build is still there or it's not, and what survives is (usually) perfectly preserved, no sign of history except obsolescence. Maybe we've lost something.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

59 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Style has really nothing to do with what I was discussing. (And FWIW I've long been an advocate for retaining prim builds in resistance to the "all mesh" partisans.) I'm talking about "decay" of abandoned digital content, something more graceful than the current all-or-nothing treatment inherited from a binary representation. The point is that we're accustomed by RL experience to things deteriorating over time unless maintained, where that deterioration itself adds character and indicates the passage of time. In the digital realm, the old game cartridge still loads or it doesn't, the SL build is still there or it's not, and what survives is (usually) perfectly preserved, no sign of history except obsolescence. Maybe we've lost something.

My build shows evidence of the passage of time: windows bricked up, warehouse bay doors removed, old artwork painted over, new additions in a different style from the original build.

But too many people will just say ewwwwww a prim build, remove it from the grid.

😁

Edited November 3, 2023 by BilliJo Aldrin
removed a word

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 hours ago, Island Granville said:

Marketplace - maybe? There's stuff there that's built in the 10m prim size limit days. I'm not judging old builds, but that much prim wastage is almost a crime. Any vendor who cares would have updated their builds by now, and if they don't care and are still actively flogging their bloated *****, they deserve to have it yanked. I say that as someone who plays a 172 prim saxophone I built 15 years ago - but I'm not trying to sell it to anyone.

World - not so sure. I took a 10 year break from SL, and when I returned a couple of years ago my terrible prim built sky home was still floating on my unsupported group land, exactly as I left it. It gave me a solid base from which to rediscover SL and its decade of changes. Having a home I remembered was a huge asset to my retention as a returned "Oh yeah, I remember SL..." user. If everything was gone, I might not have stayed. But that's just my experience - I'm grateful for the lenience that LL showed to insignificant delinquent groups defaulting on small undesirable parcels.

As far as cleaning up other people's abandoned floating plywood? If they're paying for it, it's their creative choice. If they're not paying for it, or they don't associate with a group that owns the land? Kill the eyesores at ground level, leave it alone in the sky in case they love it.

if people want to waste their prims building to the old 10 m size, its their prims to waste. 

I aways built using megaprims as soon as i found out that there were such things.

In fact i think the floor prim in my main hall is still a megaprim.

If land is abandoned, return it all, if its still being paid for, or is one of those “forever” allotments, then leave it alone

😁

[Persephone Emerald]

Why stop with MP and inworld builds? Maybe old threads should decay overtime too? Words LL doesn't like could disappear first, then posts in the thread, then the thread gets locked if it hasn't been responded to in over a year, then it just disappears. Surely this would save on server space? 

Who needs historical builds? Who needs history at all? LL could make SL an Etch-a-Sketch world and free up mainland for new people to build on it. Turn unused, paid for parcels into free sandboxes with 24 hour return times. 

[steeljane42]

As long as there's no ToS regarding "customer support", and obviously it won't and shouldn't be a thing in SL, ever, I don't think any further changes from the current system are needed.

Now don't get me wrong, I do enjoy getting support in cases I need it, and I definitely report issues I found to creators. Many of those issues get fixed, some doesn't, depends on a creator and complexity of an issue. But in a world where creators are not obligated to provide any support at all and customers are encouraged to just vote with theit wallets; i.e. supporting good creators and not supporting ones who ignore their issues, the creator's last login date is absolutely irrelevant.

Edited November 3, 2023 by steeljane42

[BillFletcher]

6 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

Should regular logins be required to keep content active in SL on the marketplace and in-world?

If someone hasn't logged in for months or years, should their stuff still be on sale despite being abandonware? How about returning items to their inventory from in-world?

Perhaps a notice should be given to buyers to let them know the creator hasn't logged in recently and may never log in so there would be no possibility of them providing service if needed. Leaving the items available gives those who are willing to take the risk the chance to buy the item. Already there are often times when people know of an item that was once available but they cannot buy it because it isn't available anymore.

Edited November 3, 2023 by BillFletcher
corrected a typo

[Rowan Amore]

If we cleaned up the MP, we wouldn't be able to buy these beauties!