Should SL be cleaned up- based on last login date?

[Blush Bravin]

I for one am really happy that there are items in the Marketplace of merchants who have passed on in RL. Those items that are still selling have value for customers, even today, many years after their listing. As long as people want said items, I believe it is in the best interest of the customer base to leave those items available. I do agree that a disclaimer stating that the merchant is no longer active in SL would be a good policy however.

[Flea Yatsenko]

6 hours ago, Mistress Morbid said:

How regular? Items are already removed from the marketplaces of merchants who don't log in, under the following conditions -

 

Those conditions are not very good. If it sells, it stays. And SLMP search has been borked recommending ancient and outdated products which people are buying because they can't find newer stuff since search has been so bad. People are buying old stuff and not realizing it. It's happened to me because sometimes you can't tell if something is mesh or whatever just from the pictures.

SLMP only ranks the top 50k selling items. They need more requirements to filter out active merchants and modern content from the older stuff.

The whole point in wanting to clean up old listings and stuff is to make it easier to find newer stuff. Gaslighting about saying this is deleting history or censorship or whatever. It's not. It's about making SLMP search not have to rank the 15 year old prim shoes with keyword spam and heavily edited promo pictures against some brand new rigged mesh material shoes and trying its best to show you what you are looking for.

If you're really so upset about this "deleting history" and giving LL "censorship powers" then put your money where your mouth is and move into a 15 year old prim house, get rid of your mesh AVs, and support historical SL by making sure you are wearing all sculpty and prim clothes. Get yourself some nice flexi prim hair and support vintage builders and make sure you keep SL's content history alive and well! Or are you going to tell me you don't actually want to buy that stuff?

[Luna Bliss]

18 minutes ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

The whole point in wanting to clean up old listings and stuff is to make it easier to find newer stuff. Gaslighting about saying this is deleting history or censorship or whatever. It's not. It's about making SLMP search not have to rank the 15 year old prim shoes with keyword spam and heavily edited promo pictures against some brand new rigged mesh material shoes and trying its best to show you what you are looking for.

Flea, I agree with your beliefs here (that cleaning up the MP is actually about making the highest quality content more readily seen), but please don't throw a pejorative psychological label on people who simply differ in how they see this issue (you're accusing them of "gaslighting"). You're saying they're being malicious, deliberately attempting to deceive, when I don't see this as being the case at all. I think some are actually concerned about censorship and the History of a place that we love disappearing forever.

"Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which the abuser attempts to sow self-doubt and confusion in their victim's mind. Typically, gaslighters are seeking to gain power and control over the other person, by distorting reality and forcing them to question their own judgment and intuition".

Staying on point with what you see as the truth rather than insulting those who differ will more likely win the debate here.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Luna Bliss

[Theresa Tennyson]

7 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

Should regular logins be required to keep content active in SL on the marketplace and in-world?

If someone hasn't logged in for months or years, should their stuff still be on sale despite being abandonware? How about returning items to their inventory from in-world?

So, you don't care for the Ivory Tower of Primitives, then. Because its maker will never, ever log in again.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

15 minutes ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

The whole point in wanting to clean up old listings

PAY ATTENTION:

This thread is NOT about "cleaning up old stuff", the OP is crystal clear, it's about deleting stores, and bulldozing parcels based on "When did the owner last log in", pick some arbitry cut off date, the OP suggests "years OR months, and just purging stuff, regardless of how old it is, or what the quaslity is like.

 

This suggestion would cheerfully delete a modern store with 2000 good quality, well selling fitted mesh clothes for currently fashionable bodies, because the creator is in hospital, miles from their desktop, but leave the "old stuff" you are whinging about in place because Captain Oldbie, logs in on the first of EVERY month to collect his pennies from the sale of some 2006 crud with no support in the last 15 years.

 

Once again.

The OP's suggestion is NOT about deleting "old stuff", or "bad stuff", it's about randomly victimising strangers for not logging in as often as the OP thinks they should.

[BillFletcher]

21 minutes ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

Those conditions are not very good. If it sells, it stays. And SLMP search has been borked recommending ancient and outdated products which people are buying because they can't find newer stuff since search has been so bad. People are buying old stuff and not realizing it. It's happened to me because sometimes you can't tell if something is mesh or whatever just from the pictures.

So they need to fix search not remove the old items. it is to LL advantage if these old items sell. Lindens that go to abandoned accounts don't get cashed in for real dollars. 

[AmeliaJ08]

I think Marketplace does need an aggressive 'cleanup' but the grid does not, the point of SL is to be able to create whatever you want and inevitably that does mean a lot of plywood boxes everywhere. It's fine.

That said: someone recently gave me a Tampermonkey script that displays the date an item was added to the Marketplace and this seems to me to be a feature that the website should display by default, there's definitely a gulf in quality of many items based on age, it's not universal of course but realistically speaking there's probably not a lot of pre-mesh content that people might want to buy yet it still fills up search results.

That said I also see people re-posting prim items as 'new' even today so maybe that wouldn't work, there's someone filling up Hair search results with very old content right now actually (and charging 2023 prices!) but they are at least providing pictures...

I like the history though. Not to say everything should be preserved, I think it would be nice to see updates to some of the things Lindens/Moles have built around the mainland over the years since many are in prominent positions and maybe more attractive buildings, monuments etc would actually encourage people to visit/use the public land they're on? not sure but specifically I'm thinking of examples in the Blake Sea, I'm sure they're all over the grid though.

All those abandoned 'Infohubs' that nobody visits... maybe give people a good reason to congregate at or at the very least visit them again? not sure if it'd work though.

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by AmeliaJ08

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, BillFletcher said:

 Lindens that go to abandoned accounts don't get cashed in for real dollars. 

LL collects fees on the sale of Ls AND the cash out process.  Ls stuck in an abandoned account are of no advantage to anyone.  

[Zalificent Corvinus]

5 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

That said I also see people re-posting prim items as 'new' even today so maybe that wouldn't work

When Bento was introduced, a number of prim jewellry makers who sold rings attached to the hand, reattached them to the bento ring finger, edited the position, then repackaged and relisted them as "Bento rings" for 50% more than the previous price,  within 24 hours of Bento officially going live on the grid.

The same was done with shapes, repackage, relist, call it a "Bento shape", jack the price by 50%, and tell people they NEEDED "new bento shapes".

None of those "Bento Products" were "new".

A purge by listing date doesn't always work to get rid of the old stuff.

[Paul Hexem]

6 hours ago, Mistress Morbid said:

How regular? Items are already removed from the marketplaces of merchants who don't log in, under the following conditions -

 

Considering search now returns the ancient stuff first, those rules mean that a lot of stuff will be able to slip through. They're very ineffective as written.

 

5 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I agree with @Zalificent Corvinus , never return stuff from land that is still being paid for. Shut down their online store if you want, but items on paid up land should never be touched.

There's certainly an argument for "preserving ancient plywood as monuments", but if we're comfortable shutting down their MP store, why aren't we comfortable shutting down their in-world store too?

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Paul Hexem said:

Considering search now returns the ancient stuff first

Mine doesn't, but then again, I'm smart enough to NEVER use "relevance" as a search option. I always use "Newest First". Try it, you might like it.

 

2 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

if we're comfortable shutting down their MP store, why aren't we comfortable shutting down their in-world store too?

You didn't say "deleting their inworld stores" you said "deleting their stuff", not all the accounts victimised by your proposed bulldozer law will even BE merchants, let alone have an in-world store, your proposal means bulldozing residential parcels, or emptying peoples homes in Belli, based on them not having logged in to SL in "months".

 

Don't pretend this is some "Glorious Crusade to Abolish Ancient Prim Crap", this is just a request for legalised griefing of random SecondLifers who don't log in as often as you think they should.

[Orwar]

   Navigating the MP isn't very difficult, sort by newest first if it's new stuff you're looking for, specify what it is you're looking for or browse the relevant category. Look at the provided pictures, read the reviews, and demo before you buy - if you're somehow digging around sculptie shoes it's really just user error.

   It kind of feels like 'relevance' as a sort by option may do more harm than good, at least as the default option.

[Sid Nagy]

8 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

Should regular logins be required to keep content active in SL on the marketplace and in-world?

If someone hasn't logged in for months or years, should their stuff still be on sale despite being abandonware? How about returning items to their inventory from in-world?

Yes definitely so.
Merchants and creators who can't be bothered to even log in every now and then for a long time, should get their content inactive. Unless it still sells. Then the product still has use for SL.
For instance. A year not logged in AND a year not sold, should unlist a product.  Products that haven't sold even one time in two years should be unlisted too, even if the merchant/creator logs in on a regular basis.  That stuff has become just clutter for the marketplace. The marketplace has no museum function IMHO.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Sid Nagy
All great texts have been edited many times. 😏

[Zalificent Corvinus]

6 minutes ago, Orwar said:

It kind of feels like 'relevance' as a sort by option may do more harm than good, at least as the default option.

If you really want "bad options" try "best selling" in a search for mesh bodies., it's so bad it's ALMOST funny.

[AmeliaJ08]

15 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   It kind of feels like 'relevance' as a sort by option may do more harm than good, at least as the default option.

It absolutely does. Anyone know what makes search consider a product the most relevant though?

[Zalificent Corvinus]

11 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

It absolutely does. Anyone know what makes search consider a product the most relevant though?

Don't be silly, that is "A Secret Never To Be Told", because if they did, merchants would game the hell out of it, to push their listings up the search results.

[Orwar]

13 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Anyone know what makes search consider a product the most relevant though?

 

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

29 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Yes definitely so.

Whenever I see a merchant saying OTHER merchants must be deleted, I can't help but mentally add the words "...because I can't stand having competition".

Cynical of me I know.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Prokofy Neva]

8 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

Should regular logins be required to keep content active in SL on the marketplace and in-world?

If someone hasn't logged in for months or years, should their stuff still be on sale despite being abandonware? How about returning items to their inventory from in-world?

No.

[Sid Nagy]

5 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Whenever I see a merchant saying OTHER merchants must be deleted, I can't help but mentally add the words "...because I can't stand having competition".

Cynical of me I know.

It has nothing to do with kicking out competition, but with cleaning up the enormous pile waist on the marketplace.

Merchants simply forget to clean up their clutter, because there is no need to do so.
A few of my currently listed products never sold even one time.  One simply can't predict what will be a success and what not.
There is no need whatsoever for a merchant to clean up their clutter at the moment. That makes an awful lot of unwanted unpopular junk on the marketplace (mine included), that makes search harder than needed.

A good idea IMHO could also be asking a listing fee for a product after a certain period of no sales:
If a product doesn't sell at all in one year/two years it gets automatic unlisted then. The merchant gets an automated notice that it is possible to l activate that product again by paying a listing fee for the next period.
If a product is still selling, it stays on the marketplace for free, until it no longer sells for the agreed period.

 

[Sid Nagy]

19 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

No.

Great arguments.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Sid Nagy said:

Merchants simply forget to clean up their clutter, because there is no need to do so.

See, no need to clear up, so the OP's suggestion should be dismissed.

 

2 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

that makes search harder than needed

I hadn't noticed that stuff was making search harder, but then I never use "relevance" and i make use of the filters on the left side of the page, and choose sensible search terms, and sometimes (when they are working ) boolean operators, like well, one does in a search engine.

 

But all of this is irrelevant, since the OP's proposal also includes deleting peoples homes if they don't log in as often as specified, but STILL charging them for premium and tier.

A suggestion that does NOTHING to clean out "old stuff not selling" on the MP, in fact even the part referring to the MP, doesn't "clean out old stuff" it just deletes people who haven't logged in for a specified number of months. regardless of how old their stuff is or how well it sells.

 

So perhaps before blithely agreeing with the suggestion, you should have read it and seen it does NONE of the things you think adviseable for the MP, and a LOT to decrease YOUR potential customer base.

 

Your customers, who have multiple Belli plots under multiple premium alts, who suddenly find all the stuff in Belli house #4 deleted because that alt hasn't logged in in 3 months.

 

[BillFletcher]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

LL collects fees on the sale of Ls AND the cash out process.  Ls stuck in an abandoned account are of no advantage to anyone.  

LL collects money when lindens are purchased. If they never get cashed out the Lab gets to keep that money. It is better to keep the whole thing than get a percentage.

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

sometimes you can't tell if something is mesh or whatever just from the pictures.

Then don't look at the picture. Look at the info provided.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

PAY ATTENTION:

 

The OP's suggestion is NOT about deleting "old stuff", or "bad stuff", it's about randomly victimising strangers for not logging in as often as the OP thinks they should.

it's because they're still trying to run me out on a rail.

It isn't paranoia when I know they want me gone. 😊