Breedable farms?

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

What am I looking at here?

This in a home on a nearby region that was occupied just a few days ago. I think these are some kind of breedable - or just the shells for them.

 

Not sure if this is something to worry about or ignore.

.

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by UnilWay SpiritWeaver

[Claireschen Hesten]

You can AR it if they are breedables, the covenant states you can't have more than two breedables rezzed in Bellisseria

[Polenth Yue]

They're KittyCats, which are breedables. The ones with the cardboard back are kittens in boxes, so they're not active breedables and not covered by the rules (as I understand it... they're just in storage in that state). The ones with the hovertext and an age are active and way more than is allowed. The flat version is just a low prim model for people who don't want the full cats roaming about. Which almost always means it's a breedable farm, as people with pets want to see their cats.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Polenth Yue

[Vivienne Vanilla]

I sent an AR in August 2023 and nothing ...

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

5 hours ago, Vivienne Vanilla said:

I sent an AR in August 2023 and nothing ...

Yeah that's what worries me. Been seeing these kinds of things go unanswered of late.

I AR'd somebody with a whole pile of merchant delivery gear just earlier this week to thus far no effect - but we'll see as that one's only been a few days. But AR'd a 5-second auto-ban security orb back a few months ago that is still there (I just checked as I was typing this).

It seems the AR team is either severely overwhelmed or we're all reading the covenant wrong.

 

[diamond Marchant]

 

49 minutes ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

It seems the AR team is either severely overwhelmed

My guess is that this is the case and they prioritize. For slam dunk violations such as huge privacy screens or ratings violations, I have observed delays of up to a month. Hopefully the response to more personal violations is quicker.

[Vivienne Vanilla]

I usually derender/black list, but I couldn't keep up with the all additional breeding and DJ Events that occur every Friday.
Luckily there is a new tenant as of this morning. 

[Teresa Firelight]

I have heard a few people say that their ARs were not responded to, but I am not sure that is the case. I had a neighbor with a slew of breedables (some weird creature I was not familiar with) in her yard, filling up her entire 703 land allowance with these things.  I ARed her...  a couple of days later I checked again. She still had all the creatures rezzed but had moved them all inside her house and closed the windows with blinders.  I ARed her again.. the creatures disappeared a day or two later but the property remained in her name for another 3 days... then suddenly I had a new neighbor.

I think what happened is that Governance returned the breedables and gave her a warning, so she moved them inside. My guess is this -- once Governance takes an action, they dont keep coming back to see if people put the forbidden objects back out again. When I ARed her the 2nd time, I think she got the items returned and a short punitive suspension of her account. I am guessing that is why it took her a few days before she abandoned the property and moved to a new location.

The funny thing.. a few days later someone reported a neighbor with a slew of high lag breedables in her house in the belli citizen's chat group.. we compared notes in IM and it was the same person and... who had moved and set up the same breedables again. 

I did not hear anything after that, but my guess is that governance took a harsher "correction" the second time.

My recommendation... if you AR someone and the doesnt seem to be resolved after a few days, AR again.. it could be that an action was taken, a warning given, but the person put the the stuff back out again. The first corrective action is usually mild and people may tend to ignore it... but if they keep repeating it and keep getting reported, then the "corrections" get stronger.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Teresa Firelight

[Eirynne Sieyes]

Those kitty cats are too darned CUTE for their own good! 😄

[Trinity Blakewell]

Maybe cute but so not worth the hassle!

[Jaylinbridges]

Those kittycats, since they are all fixed, cause no physics lag, and very little script lag.  One avatar with a mesh body causes more lag than 50 kittycats as fixed breedables.  But the covenant rules don't care to distinguish between actual laggy breedables, and those that cause no detectable lag.  Belli is anti breedables, and best to not live there if you have any breedables, no matter how little they affect a region.  And all the pets roaming around, animesh and otherwise, actually do cause lag, but are still allowed in Belli. 

I have a kittycat "breedable farm" with 50 active kittycat breedables on a parcel, and have no lag at all, based on both observation and the Statistics numbers.  And I been doing this for the last 10 years!  I can't speak for other poorly designed breedables or moving pets, but those kittycats in the OP picture are causing no detectable lag!

Kittycats can also be bred offline from a web site.  Most breeders that do not have the prims or land do that.  But still only 2 kittycats/owner is no fun even as pets.  Just move to a private or mainland area so you won't be hassled.

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Jaylinbridges

[Teresa Firelight]

The covenant is for the benefit of the "majority" of people who want to live in bellisseria. There are parts of it that are restrictive to some, but welcome to others. I had to give up my beloved plantpets when I moved here because they are temprez... but I did not miss them for long. Personally I love living in Belli and I am glad there is a covenant that prevents people from making their yards into out-of-theme "eyesores" with low hanging skyboxes, etc.

Overall, I think the covenant benefits most residents. But, it is not helpful for breeders or for people who want to sell things. It is not helpful to people who want a "style" of landscaping that is non-theme. (What is beautiful to some is an eyesore to others.) It is not helpful for people who want to protect their privacy with 0-second security orbs, etc.  I think that is why LL gives premium members the option of using their 1024 sqM land allowance on mainland (tier free, covenant free, but they still have to buy the mainland) or in Bellisseria (where they have to adhere to the covenant.)

Edited October 24, 2023 by Teresa Firelight

[Sparkle Bunny]

7 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Those kittycats, since they are all fixed, cause no physics lag, and very little script lag.

The objection isn't so much that they're a resource hog, it's that they're unsightly and out of theme. (I could probably live with it if they killed the hovertext.)

[Abnor Mole]

It's both a sharing resources and using your Linden Home for farming breedables issue while still allowing residents to have a couple of pets. Limiting the number is how we decided to give residents the ability to have a couple of breedable pets, but keep people from using Linden Homes as "mills" for turning out large numbers of breedable items (assumingly for profit, which would be a commercial usage). Lindens are Moles aren't going to differentiate between "laggy" or "non laggy" breedables or if they are or are not set to a breeding status. They are just going to look at the number that are rezzed out on the parcel and if they comply with the covenant.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Abnor Mole

[Polenth Yue]

13 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

And all the pets roaming around, animesh and otherwise, actually do cause lag, but are still allowed in Belli.

In visiting all the released houses, I didn't see many items that were genuinely moving as far as the server is concerned. Most use movement that is handled by the client (phantom rotation, texture animation, real animations for animesh, particles), stuff that needs a simple script (faces are made visible/invisible to give the impression of movement) or only move on touch/sit. When people do put out ones that really roam, they keep the numbers down, because they're decor and it'd be weird to have a hundred of them. For roaming animesh, it's also because there's not enough land impact for many of them. This isn't a big area causing server lag.

Not that all breedables cause it either, but the horse houses were a problem, so the rules changed. It'd also be hard to argue that a bare house with only breedables isn't commercial (and if looks aren't an issue, mainland would be better for that anyway... they could set up the shop on the same parcel).

[Jaylinbridges]

9 hours ago, Sparkle Bunny said:

The objection isn't so much that they're a resource hog, it's that they're unsightly and out of theme. (I could probably live with it if they killed the hovertext.)

Most breeders use a sky platform or sky building for all of their breedables.  I have mine at 3000 meters, with scenic walls.  No one sees it unless they fly up 3000 m and hit my security orb,  where they have 15 secs to leave before they are sent home.  At my land level, I have a beach and small beachouse, with no sign I have any pets or breedables at all. 

JIAN pets cause more lag - are JIAN pets banned in Belli?  Teegle animesh horses consume more script time, and use too many prims.  There is no good reason why a Premium Home owner could not have 5 pairs of breedables in the sky, above 3000 m.  Breedables, since they are stationary, like a chair, cause less lag than roaming pets. The photo from the OP shows how a proper breedable "farm" should look. One Prim stationary boxes, and in this case partnered pairs, and no lag or effect on anyone.  Why are peeps snooping inside Belli home bedrooms with their camera? Isn't that an issue too?

I believe in evidence-based rules - not worst case lazy rules based on nothing but simplifying Lindens' workload.  Many private island rental companies have reasonable rules for breedables, and are based on actual evidence if they are causing lag.  That's why don't I don't live in Belli anymore, where I had three homes at one time when Belli first opened.  My Premium land tier is for my mainland shop, also in the sky.  I don't use it to breed, just have inventory for sale with Torgan profiliers to list them on the internet. That would be illegal in Belli too.  My sky shop on mainland gets about 10 visitors per week!  No avatar load on the region at all.  Customers visit my shop because they already found the cat and price they want, TP directly to the kittycat, buy the box, and leave.  Shop browse time is less than 5 mins/visitor.  I keep a log of all visitors.  

Abnor's assumption that breeders make a profit is also funny.  Most do it for the challenge of breeding, or as a collectibles  hobby,  because that is what it turns in to when you gamble with statistics rigged against you.

Edited October 25, 2023 by Jaylinbridges

[Jaylinbridges]

11 hours ago, Teresa Firelight said:

Personally I love living in Belli and I am glad there is a covenant that prevents people from making their yards into out-of-theme "eyesores" with low hanging skyboxes, etc.

You ignore the high skyboxes, over 2000 m, which are not low hanging (illegal in Belli), and a rule that would limit any breedable operation to high out of sight skyboxes, using "farming" methods that do not add script lag. Most rental companies even spell out the conditions in their covenant.  LL could just copy their rules.  Simple solutions seem to evade some...

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

1 hour ago, Jaylinbridges said:

That's why don't I don't live in Belli anymore, where I had three homes at one time when Belli first opened. 

 

24 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Most rental companies even spell out the conditions in their covenant.  LL could just copy their rules. 

Sounds like you are doing exactly what you are supposed to be doing.  You didn't like the rules, restrictions, and covenant of Linden homes, so you moved to mainland and/or rentals.  Way to go!

It's good to have choice.  You made yours.

[Jaylinbridges]

1 hour ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

Sounds like you are doing exactly what you are supposed to be doing.  You didn't like the rules, restrictions, and covenant of Linden homes, so you moved to mainland and/or rentals.  Way to go!

Well not exactly.  I have always had a large private island parcel, since I joined SL, and have always kept my breeding activity to that large parcel.  I usually rent parcels with 5000 LI's, so have always had land and multiple sky platforms to carry on my businesses and my home life with my partner.

But I would like the option to have more than 2 pets in Belli.  Just because they were once also breedables, that aged into pets that became permapets (do not need to eat or get sick) I like to have them around, and since they interact, 2 pets is not enough.  Sometime I would also like the option of having an Alt breed a few kittycats, but on their own land.  With the present rigid rules I can do none of the above in Belli.

Same with having a very low traffic shop in the sky.  Not allowed, even though it would zero impact on other Belli residents.  So I got tired of rigid rules to "please the majority" in general in Belli.  Private islands with reasonable owner/landlords is the only way for me to go.  I got a houseboat the first day Belli was opened, and a Stilt Home when they first came out, and have owned trailers, Fantasy Homes and the box homes too.   The attraction was water and air access, not the houses and rigid HOA rules. But, I can do the same water and air travel with no LH, and since they added all the restrictions to please the "retired leisure generation"" there was nothing left there for me.  

My partner loves the kittycats, and has about 15 of them roaming around our private island skybox.  They are entertaining enough for her that she would be bored and sad without them.  If we moved to Belli she would be allowed two, and I would have none.  Even on a ranch parcel, only two animals is ultra stupid.  Belli is fine for animal haters though.

I also recommended a Belli home to several friends, and they happened to have a few Kittycats as pets. They were NOT breeders.  Once they moved to Belli, they found out the limit of 2 "breedables" per parcel, including their pets.  They all left when their lease was up, usually 3 months.  I no longer suggest anyone live in Belli if they are animal lovers.  

Edited October 25, 2023 by Jaylinbridges

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

You still have the options of doing all those things you want.  Every last one of them.

All of those things are allowed all over mainland and in many available rentals.

It's your right to be salty that you can't do those things everywhere and anywhere you want to be.  There are, however, plenty of places that will never prevent your dream of playing with your pets or letting them interact.  That's why we have choice.

A structured community with rules isn't for you just like it isn't right for a lot of people. 

I, also, have both mainland and Belli parcels.  I like them both better for their differences.  

 

[Nika Talaj]

4 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

I believe in evidence-based rules - not worst case lazy rules based on nothing but simplifying Lindens' workload.  Many private island rental companies have reasonable rules for breedables, and are based on actual evidence if they are causing lag. 

To me, "simplifying Lindens' workload" is a perfectly valid reason for the simplicity of Belli's rules.  Covenant enforcement is extremely time-consuming, (which is why Belli is LL's first ever covenanted estate), and LL is a very modest-sized company for the service that they provide (well under 300 full-time employees now, I believe).  And you are correct, the private estates I've lived in generally have more people doing covenant enforcement per capita than LL can provide, so they can afford more fine-grained rules.  Note that those people generally are nowhere near as expensive as an LL employee would be.  I'm sad that you cannot tolerate Belli's rules, since you clearly like Belli's water themes; but I'm glad you've found accommodation elsewhere in SL.

[Polenth Yue]

The issue they're always going to have is they don't have time to create and maintain a series of very complex rules, so they set a simpler rule that'll cover it and be usable. That means they won't test every breedable to see how many can be placed without any issues and set numbers for that specific type. They aren't going to enforce rules that say selling is okay as long as there isn't more than one customer at a time for a total duration of ten minutes per day. Or that it's fine if the business doesn't turn a profit. Or if profits are below a certain threshold. These things would be terrible to assess and maintain.

It's not terrible to have different areas for different things. I decorate in the home, have a shop on mainland, and keep the breedables to a friend's region. It's not bad to live on the mainland or a private region. It's the best option if someone wants more freedom.

Anyway, someone was complaining in chat that a friend's breedables got returned, so it is being enforced.

[Sparkle Bunny]

11 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Sometime I would also like the option of having an Alt breed a few kittycats, but on their own land.

They can do this in an old 512 Linden home, albeit on a more limited scale. No breedable restrictions on those estates. And of course there is nothing to stop you keeping a single breeding pair in Bellisseria, though by 'a few' I suspect you mean a few dozen more than that.

If the covenant leads animal hoarders to flounce from Bellisseria, great! It obviously wasn't a good fit for them and frees up desirable properties for those who will furnish them with something other than pets.

[Matthieu Quander]

The smell is what gets to me.  

[Eirynne Sieyes]

I keep my kittycats in mainland sky, but I do have two giant size "mega" kitties breeding in Belli. They are my pets and mostly roam around the property.

Boxes of their unborn kitties are displayed. The boxes do not create any more lag than any other box creates, so they don't count.

As an experiment and took the kitties off to see if frame rate would be affected. It didn't seem to matter.

My 2 cents.