Breedable farms?

[Matthieu Quander]

On 10/28/2023 at 1:37 PM, Jaylinbridges said:

Obviously if you have live cats in Belli, you are already short on prims, and would leave most of your cats as 1 prim objects.  And as I keep saying, put the boxes and breeders on a high platform, out of sight of snoopy Belli neighbors.  Leave your pets where you can enjoy them at ground level. They should raise the  pet limit to 4 at land levels.  And it is nobody's business whether someone chooses to save prims by using a lower prim mode for a breedable, just keep them out of sight for the neighbors.

So as long as you adequately hide the fact that you are breaking the covenant, it's okay because at that point a neighbor being nosy is the greater transgression?  

[Trinity Blakewell]

Here's the thing...using "Area Search" in Firestorm to find and derender/blacklist/block items that may be impacting region performance is not the same thing as snooping on your neighbors. Some regions, like the Victorians and the original Houseboats, tend to be very laggy. To get acceptable performance, I often  have to go in and do that with a home  I move into. If I stumble on someone breaking the covenant during that process, I will AR them. If you had three KittyCats I'd likely ignore you. But the original example,  yes, I would AR, just like I did in the situation where someone was using their home as a CasperVend Redelivery farm.

I personally have no issue with anyone commenting or seeking clarification, or advocating for a change in the LH Covenant. But when it comes to the point that someone will disregard the covenant because they don't like it, that's just disrespect for LL and your fellow community members.

I remember a couple of years ago someone had put up standup cutouts throughout their yard that were nude men. They might have argued that that it wasn't impacting performance and that in their mind that was not offensive. I have a feeling they did it to run off any neighbors. IMO that is a good example of why the Covenant exists.

Premium Users in SL have options. Instead of trying to get around the Covenant, why not buy mainland or rent from someone or an estate that will allow the activity you want to pursue?

Edited October 30, 2023 by Trinity Blakewell

[Nika Talaj]

On 10/28/2023 at 1:37 PM, Jaylinbridges said:

Obviously if you have live cats in Belli, you are already short on prims, and would leave most of your cats as 1 prim objects.  And as I keep saying, put the boxes and breeders on a high platform, out of sight of snoopy Belli neighbors.  Leave your pets where you can enjoy them at ground level. They should raise the  pet limit to 4 at land levels.  And it is nobody's business whether someone chooses to save prims by using a lower prim mode for a breedable, just keep them out of sight for the neighbors.

There are quite a few 1 prim life size photos of a 2D Patch Linden around Belli too.  I found them collecting candy from the pumpkins.  Should I AR the owners, for not having Patch in 3D and moving?

So, you are advising  KittyCat owners in Belli to put their breeders in low-prim form in skyboxes?  Clever!  Presumably one could put 30 or so breeding KittyCats in a skybox at the same LI cost as a fairly low-LI vehicle.  Of course, that would be a blatant violation of covenant. 

I assume you're aware that a few of the same Governance Lindens who enforce the covenant inworld are responsible for keeping the forums civil?  Do let us know if one of them returns your stash of breeding KittyCats.

Oh, also, I believe Patch Linden has only two inworld "children", avatars that he uses for photos.  I don't think that qualifies him as a breeder, so people can have as many of those cutouts of him as they like, just as you can have as many unscripted photos of cats as you like.

[Kyrie Deka]

3 hours ago, Matthieu Quander said:

So as long as you adequately hide the fact that you are breaking the covenant, it's okay because at that point a neighbor being nosy is the greater transgression?  

We've kind of beat this to death by now, aye?  

I'm sorry but I just never read anyone saying that at all.  I read them saying, make your own decisions, police your own house, take your risks like they take theirs *if the Lindens care - and they just may not care much*, take your punishment from the Lindens if they do, and don't be a bonk-head and burden your neighbors visuals.  

To be honest, I think the covenant the last time I read it, mentions a version of both, and if it does then yes, both are wrong.  

 

[Eirynne Sieyes]

On 10/27/2023 at 12:21 PM, Nika Talaj said:

If there were any way to turn off hovertext on breedable boxes, maybe they would be reported less often.  As it was, I halfway expected to hear plaintive meows from the boxes every time I walked by.

Unborn KittyCats whether stored in boxes or as images on a prim do not have hovertext. They are unborn and can stay that way indefinitely. 

However, when you see hovertext on a KittyCat, whether stored as an image or other prim-saving form, is most likely (but not always) because the cat is "alive," is eating and is likely breeding.  

See below unborn kitten box and image. No hovertext.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Eirynne Sieyes

[Nika Talaj]

Right, Eirynne.  I've never noticed boxed KittyCats that don't have hovertext, and I understand that they're no problem anyway.  The only boxed ones that I've noticed around have both pictures and hovertext.  This is what I was reacting to (my bold):

On 10/28/2023 at 1:37 PM, Jaylinbridges said:

 I keep my kittycat PETS as 3D, and breeding stock as 2D.  ...And as I keep saying, put the boxes and breeders on a high platform, out of sight of snoopy Belli neighbors. ...  And it is nobody's business whether someone chooses to save prims by using a lower prim mode for a breedable, just keep them out of sight for the neighbors.

I appreciate not having to see bunches of active 2D breeding boxes with hovertext at ground level.  But, 3D or not, LL has imposed a limit on breedables.  In the sky or on the ground, having more than 2 is a violation.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Nika Talaj

[Rowan Amore]

9 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

Right, Eirynne.  I've never noticed boxed KittyCats that don't have hovertext, and I understand that they're no problem anyway.  The only boxed ones that I've noticed around have both pictures and hovertext.  This is what I was reacting to (my bold):

I appreciate not having to see bunches of active 2D breeding boxes with hovertext at ground level.  But, 3D or not, LL has imposed a limit on breedables.  In the sky or on the ground, having more than 2 is a violation.

My confusion was why would someone keep a cat in a box if they weren't intending to sell them somehow.  It just doesn't make sense to me to have a pet of any kind still in a box UNLESS your intention is to sell it.  It seems a waste of prims to me.  

[Love Zhaoying]

If you only breed your animals with other animals you own, won't they get inbred?

 

[Eirynne Sieyes]

18 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

My confusion was why would someone keep a cat in a box if they weren't intending to sell them somehow.  It just doesn't make sense to me to have a pet of any kind still in a box UNLESS your intention is to sell it.  It seems a waste of prims to me.  

I can only speak for myself. It's not a cat until you birth it. I may not want a kitty birthed because I may not have a need for that fur now. They are expensive to feed and can only breed until they are 120 days. So, until I want to breed them or find the right partner, or just have them around, no sense in birthing them. Once you birth a KittyCat, past the first day, you can't put it back in the box and unbirth it.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Eirynne Sieyes

[Matthieu Quander]

46 minutes ago, Kyrie Deka said:

We've kind of beat this to death by now, aye?  

sees several new posts in thread.

Apparently we have not.  

[Rowan Amore]

12 minutes ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

I can only speak for myself. It's not a cat until you birth it. I may not want a kitty birthed because I may not have a need for that fur now. They are expensive to feed and can only breed until they are 120 days. So, until I want to breed them or find the right partner, or just have them around, no sense in birthing them. Once you birth a KittyCat, past the first day, you can't put it back in the box and unbirth it.

But that's my point.  Why would someone have an unborn (boxed) cat out using up prims unless their intention is to sell it?  Or any cat boxed up and not out as a pet?

The only breedables I've ever had were years ago when they were something new.  Some kind of bunny that hatched out of an egg.  We had breeders out but unhatched ones were kept in inventory unless we wanted to sell them.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Kyrie Deka said:

We've kind of beat this to death by now, aye?  

Cats..beat to death..

Don't make me call the ASPCA!

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

It's not a cat until you birth it.

Isn't this the Schroedinger's Cat paradox, restated?

[Love Zhaoying]

45 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Why would someone have an unborn (boxed) cat out using up prims unless their intention is to sell it?

Maybe to "cross-breed" them (all inbred, eww) to get different colors, strains, breeds, and "specials", etc.? 

[Rowan Amore]

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Maybe to "cross-breed" them (all inbred, eww) to get different colors, strains, breeds, and "specials", etc.? 

I'd have a list on a notecard with all my cats if I were breeding them.  Seems logical.  Sex, coat, eye, ear, etc.

[Jaylinbridges]

4 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

But that's my point.  Why would someone have an unborn (boxed) cat out using up prims unless their intention is to sell it?  Or any cat boxed up and not out as a pet?

SIgh...  If you have enough prims on your land, keeping boxes rezzed that you are not intending to sell is a personal choice.  I have 4000 LI on my parcel, so why am I worried about having 50 boxes (50 prims) rezzed on my work platform?  They are not for sale.  I sell boxes at market sims and my own shops.  Sometimes we just like to see our best stock without looking at a database.  I often arrange boxes according to traits, and have them rezzed, because they might be part of my next project.  Cats that I have an over supply of and cannot be sold easily go to the Kittycats online cattery.  I have 2000 boxes in inventory - and room for about 300 boxes to sell at my shops.  I do not sell from my breeding home.

Why do you have trees on your land?  They use prims, are not for sale, and would save you prims if they were back in your inventory.

You simply know nothing about the larger scale kittycat breeders.  Many own full sims, and prefer to breed inworld, and keep some inventory inworld,  A personal choice, and not something to be ridiculed.  It's their choice to own land to store boxes.

We are not talking about Belli mini parcels here.  I do not support rezzed breeding farms in Belli,  A Breeding Farm is not 3 kittycats however.  That is the issue.  Pet owners stay out of Belli because a limit of only 2 breedable/pets is unreasonable to them.  

The maximun of two live breedables in the  Covenant is simply a bad decision, ill conceived, and should be changed to at least 4 pets, or breedables. I never said anyone should violate the Belli Covenant.  Some posters here are parsing, and drawing the wrong conclusions, to put it nicely.

What I said was - IF neighbors complain because they can't stand  2D kittycat boxes inside your own home, or are bothered by the tags than can be turned off, avoid their harassment by moving your boxes to a sky platform, out of their sight.  I also said, if you are going to large scale breed, don't waste your time trying it in Belli.  

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Jaylinbridges

[Rowan Amore]

9 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

We are not talking about Belli mini parcels here.

I was as was the OP.

And, as was mentioned...

On 10/21/2023 at 6:45 PM, Polenth Yue said:

They're KittyCats, which are breedables. The ones with the cardboard back are kittens in boxes, so they're not active breedables and not covered by the rules (as I understand it... they're just in storage in that state). The ones with the hovertext and an age are active and way more than is allowed. The flat version is just a low prim model for people who don't want the full cats roaming about. Which almost always means it's a breedable farm, as people with pets want to see their cats.

Anyway...you do you.

[Jaylinbridges]

34 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

And, as was mentioned...

On 10/21/2023 at 3:45 PM, Polenth Yue said:

They're KittyCats, which are breedables. The ones with the cardboard back are kittens in boxes, so they're not active breedables and not covered by the rules (as I understand it... they're just in storage in that state). The ones with the hovertext and an age are active and way more than is allowed. The flat version is just a low prim model for people who don't want the full cats roaming about. Which almost always means it's a breedable farm, as people with pets want to see their cats.

Boxes that are unborn and not breeding also have hovertext. That is where you must be getting confused. Many turn on the hovertext to show the traits on a box, because you cannot see all the traits from the picture only.  So, boxes with hovertext are just boxes.  Apparently a box (unborn) kittycat with the hovertext turned on is against the convenant.  Perhaps all hovertext should be banned in Belli. We need to keep the community clean and tidy.

A kittycat that is born can be shown in a 2D state, and also has hovertext, which can be turned on or off.  Some are complaining about boxes with hovertext, which are not breedables yet.  The boxes are legal, but the hovertext is not, even though hovertext visible range is limited and can be adjusted in your viewer.

There are breedable farms where the hovertext on live animals is turned off.  Many breeders just give their cat a name, one line on a tag, such as Mabel.  If you have a box or breedable with Mabel above them, that is violating the Belli covenant.  Does that really seem reasonable? 

Here are 3 boxes (unborn kittycats) on my work platform, from the recent new collection.  I turned on all the tags on the Dragon Water, and only the name tag on the other two.  None are breeders.  I will probably keep them as collectables as they increase in value, and sell them in a few years at an auction. In any case, a tag does not mean it is a live breedable.

 

 

[Jaylinbridges]

7 hours ago, Nika Talaj said:

I assume you're aware that a few of the same Governance Lindens who enforce the covenant inworld are responsible for keeping the forums civil?  Do let us know if one of them returns your stash of breeding KittyCats.

Oh, also, I believe Patch Linden has only two inworld "children", avatars that he uses for photos.  I don't think that qualifies him as a breeder, so people can have as many of those cutouts of him as they like, just as you can have as many unscripted photos of cats as you like.

Well this is worth a laugh at least.  I don't have a Linden Home, I gave up 3 of them up a year ago. And I never bred or stored any kittycats in Bellisseria ever!   My "stash" of kittycats is on a private island region, where the owners have reasonable rules based on facts.  I cause no region lag there, just follow the usual rules for well run estates.

And how do you know Patch is not a breeder of more Patches?  That's one of the strangest comments I've heard this week.  Also kittycat boxes do not violate any TOS rules in Belli.  You might like to read back and find out who was complaining about ALL cutouts, because they reminded her of "road kill."

[Rowan Amore]

25 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Boxes that are unborn and not breeding also have hovertext. That is where you must be getting confused. Many turn on the hovertext to show the traits on a box, because you cannot see all the traits from the picture only.  So, boxes with hovertext are just boxes.  Apparently a box (unborn) kittycat with the hovertext turned on is against the convenant.  Perhaps all hovertext should be banned in Belli. We need to keep the community clean and tidy.

A kittycat that is born can be shown in a 2D state, and also has hovertext, which can be turned on or off.  Some are complaining about boxes with hovertext, which are not breedables yet.  The boxes are legal, but the hovertext is not, even though hovertext visible range is limited and can be adjusted in your viewer.

There are breedable farms where the hovertext on live animals is turned off.  Many breeders just give their cat a name, one line on a tag, such as Mabel.  If you have a box or breedable with Mabel above them, that is violating the Belli covenant.  Does that really seem reasonable? 

Here are 3 boxes (unborn kittycats) on my work platform, from the recent new collection.  I turned on all the tags on the Dragon Water, and only the name tag on the other two.  None are breeders.  I will probably keep them as collectables as they increase in value, and sell them in a few years at an auction. In any case, a tag does not mean it is a live breedable.

 

 

I guess the key is checking if those ones without hover text are for sale.  Selling on Belli is not allowed, hover text or not which was my main point which seems to have eluded you.  

 

[Jaylinbridges]

34 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I guess the key is checking if those ones without hover text are for sale.  Selling on Belli is not allowed, hover text or not which was my main point which seems to have eluded you

There was never any sign of the cats in the OP's invasive photo of a neighbors bedroom, were for sale.  They were recently purchased cat boxes from the new collection, about 14,000 $L worth, at 990 $L/box, and some partnered breeding pairs in the back.  She also had a KittycatS Dock in the room, which suggests she uses the online cattery to breed and store her cats.  The dock is used to bring cats from the online cattery inworld. The new cats have to be rezzed somewhere inworld one time.  Lots of bad assumptions from the OP and others here, knowing nothing about her intentions or plans.

You can't really sell anything in Belli. You cannot advertise a Belli store outside of Belli, or inside Belli..  She had no Torgan profilers that could show the LM of the cat on the web market.  There was no sign on her home that she was selling kittycats.  That was never the issue.  Just because you brought it up doesn't mean it was worth my commenting, since selling in Belli is a non-issue.  The only issue was she had about 10 paired breeders, obvious from the %Love on the tags, when only one pair was allowed.   And that triggered a busybody to AR her, and be proud of herself.

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Jaylinbridges

[Rowan Amore]

15 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

There was never any sign of the cats in the OP's invasive photo of a neighbors bedroom, were for sale.  They were recently purchased cat boxes from the new collection, about 14,000 $L worth, at 990 $L/box, and some partnered breeding pairs in the back.  She also had a KittycatS Dock in the room, which suggests she uses the online cattery to breed and store her cats.  The dock is used to bring cats from the online cattery inworld. The new cats have to be rezzed somewhere inworld one time.  Lots of bad assumptions from the OP and others here, knowing nothing about her intentions or plans.

You can't really sell anything in Belli. You cannot advertise a Belli store outside of Belli, or inside Belli..  She had no Torgan profilers that could show the LM of the cat on the web market.  There was no sign on her home that she was selling kittycats.  That was never the issue.  Just because you brought it up doesn't mean it was worth my commenting, since selling in Belli is a non-issue.  The only issue was she had about 10 paired breeders, obvious from the %Love on the tags, when only one pair was allowed.   And that triggered a busybody to AR her, and be proud of herself.

 

Actually, Abnor brought up the commercial aspect but whatever...

 

On 10/24/2023 at 3:06 PM, Abnor Mole said:

It's both a sharing resources and using your Linden Home for farming breedables issue while still allowing residents to have a couple of pets. Limiting the number is how we decided to give residents the ability to have a couple of breedable pets, but keep people from using Linden Homes as "mills" for turning out large numbers of breedable items (assumingly for profit, which would be a commercial usage). Lindens are Moles aren't going to differentiate between "laggy" or "non laggy" breedables or if they are or are not set to a breeding status. They are just going to look at the number that are rezzed out on the parcel and if they comply with the covenant.

 

[Jaylinbridges]

I hope we are done now.  There were only 2 others in this thread that had any experience breeding kittycats, and they were being ignored despite being correct.   Those that try to attack me were off-base by several continents.

I already said what I think of Abnor's comment that any kittycats, whether breedables or pets over the limit of two are in violation.  That should of course apply to ALL pets in Belli.  Got a horse and a dog on your ranch. No chicken, barn cat, owl, or squirrel for you!

Edited October 31, 2023 by Jaylinbridges

[Rabid Cheetah]

Welp, this thread certainly bread a lot of popcorn for me

*nom nom nom nom*

 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Rabid Cheetah

[Arwyn Quandry]

So what exactly qualifies an item as a breedable? I just bought one of those Potted plant things you can water because the design was cute. The hovertext is off, I just like it as a decoration. Can I only have two of those at my house since they're able to produce seeds?