secondlife goes seamless world

[randakong]

Come on lindens try and make it happens maybe improve all your servers that don't need cross-regions. A seamless world is better than anything that secondlife ever achieved.

Edited June 8, 2023 by randakong

[Ceka Cianci]

9 minutes ago, randakong said:

Come on lindens try and make it happens maybe improve all your servers that don't need cross-regions. A seamless world is better than anything that secondlife ever achieved.

Second life isn't a world, it's a grid with many worlds owned by many different users.. I don't think the ones paying for private sims off on their own, would want to have other sim owners bumped right up next to them just to make things seamless.. hehehe

[Katherine Heartsong]

What @Ceka Cianci said, plus ... Can you just imagine to forum threads that are simply now "Why can't I enter your parcel to drive/walk/fly through it and ban orbs" moving a whole level up into "Hey, how come I can't cross this entire region?" or to @Ceka Cianci's point ... "I crossed into your region from this nice wooded place and now I'm in literal hell and what are you doing to that poor horse!?"

Edited June 8, 2023 by Katherine Heartsong

[Rowan Amore]

If SL were actually built by programs as games are, sure it could be seamless but that's not what SL.is or was ever meant to be.  Region crossing ARE much better than they used to be when I started.

[gwynchisholm]

I never thought the region crossing thing was that big of a deal, most of the time I don’t even go between regions without teleporting anyway and when I do it’s not exactly a major holdup.

It’s a big outlier for most social games to even have connected spaces like this, even if there is a transition, very few other games have anything like that.

Most other social worlds use a room or space system where you only go to the one location and navigate to other locations with a menu. So SecondLifes transitions between regions is pretty advanced above that.

 

[Polenth Yue]

The MMOs I've played with seamless worlds had seams. They just didn't mark the seams. You could figure out where they were because weird stuff would happen around them. Monsters sometimes wouldn't see you if you were on the other side or you'd end up rubberbanding when you tried to cross. Second Life is just more transparent about the location of the seams.

[randakong]

On 6/8/2023 at 12:16 PM, Rowan Amore said:

If SL were actually built by programs as games are, sure it could be seamless but that's not what SL.is or was ever meant to be.  Region crossing ARE much better than they used to be when I started.

It better because linden labs moves it servers to cloud servers.

[Jaylinbridges]

On 6/8/2023 at 11:31 AM, randakong said:

A seamless world

Define seamless world, and give some examples. You seem to be the expert on seamless worlds.   Send LL a JIRA to make the grid seamless and they should get right on it.

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Jaylinbridges

[belindacarson]

4 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Define seamless world, and give some examples. You seem to be the expert on seamless worlds.   Send LL a JIRA to make the grid seamless and they should get right on it.

 

Well said

[Fauve Aeon]

I’m not willing to submit to the vagaries of false g*d LagVar. My big Kitely region is probably only ‘seamless’ in my imagination because I’m usually there alone with my own things. People complain about enough things in a single region, imaging the complaints on  a 4x4 or larger VAR split into parcels? 
 

On 6/8/2023 at 10:40 PM, gwynchisholm said:

I never thought the region crossing thing was that big of a deal, most of the time I don’t even go between regions without teleporting anyway and when I do it’s not exactly a major holdup.

Smack a sim corner on an angle in a battle balloon at full tilt boogie and believe me - very noticible! Ditto for riding an 18-passenger crazy bus at Fantasy Faire. Oof - and sometimes we all go fly/falling. Even with the best of drivers. Even free flying with a moderate boost sometimes rubber-bands me if the crossing angle is shallow or in a corner.

[Alwin Alcott]

3 hours ago, randakong said:

 opensim

think you took a wrong turn somewhere .. SL is not Opensim ..

stop listening to yourself, it's dangerous.

[Anna Nova]

I'd like region crossing like we used to have before the move to AWS, where you could fly.  Every time I try to fly I find myself logged out after 3-5 crossings, cos AWS can't keep up.  Opensim is just as bad BTW - same basic technology.

[Love Zhaoying]

  Since the OP did not define "Seamless", I assume that "Seamless" here refers to Region crossings (the "Seam" being the crossing point between Regions) - where there is some apparent "lag" (whether the classic "rubber-banding effect", or slow rezzing) as an Avatar crosses from one Region into another.

Two of the main reasons why Second Life does not have "Seamless" Region crossings turn out to be for purely Environmental Impact!

1. The "Rubber-Banding" effect during Region crossings is called that, because a user may see their avatar "paused" and then "thrust forward" between the two Regions. 

The name "Rubber-Banding", is in part because this is similar to drawing back a rubber band between your hands, then pausing to aim before shooting the rubber band at a target.

Unfortunately, the action of "shooting" an Avatar from one Region to another (like shooting a rubber band) provides much of the energy needed for the data transfer between Second Life Servers.

To replace the "Rubber Band" shooting of Avatars between Regions would require a large amount of additional power - and have a negative impact on the Environment.

2. One solution to the Region Crossing issues in Second Life would be to use "Hexagonal-shaped" Regions - like "Honeycomb Cells" instead of "Square-shaped" Regions.

"Hexagonal-shaped" ("Honeycomb") Regions would touch other Regions on more Sides than "Square-shaped" Regions, allowing more Regions to communicate with one another - like "Honeybees" in a Beehive - to exchange data with more neighboring Regions simultaneously.

To achieve communication between Hexagonal "Honeycomb" Regions would require a large amount of Honeybees, which cannot be obtained without reducing the output of worldwide crops, potentially leading to famine and mass extinction of the Real Life Human population.

So you see, the inability of Linden Lab to create "Seamless Regions" can be blamed squarely on Environmental reasons.

 

 

[Quartz Mole]

Friendly reminder that the Community Participation Guidelines say

Quote

 We want to foster an honest and open exchange of ideas on our community pages; to do that, we want to encourage all participants to maintain an atmosphere of courtesy and respect for others at all times. Creating a constructive place for conversation will help us build a strong, better informed community in Second Life, and make both our communication channels and our world a more supportive and engaging place for all.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Quartz Mole said:

Friendly reminder that the Community Participation Guidelines say

 

Thanks, Quartz! 

I hope that my constructive interpretation (directly above your post) of the technical aspects of Seamless Region Crossing, and Environmental Impact, meets with the Community Guidelines!

Just as Second Life is "All Fun!", my post was intended to be in that same "Spirit of Fun".

Thanks,

Love

[Quartz Mole]

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Thanks, Quartz! 

I hope that my constructive interpretation (directly above your post) of the technical aspects of Seamless Region Crossing, and Environmental Impact, meets with the Community Guidelines!

Just as Second Life is "All Fun!", my post was intended to be in that same "Spirit of Fun".

Thanks,

Love

I had to remove some posts, and replies quoting them, because what should have been calm discussions about technical issues seemed to have become somewhat emotionally charged.   Since your post is still there, you may draw your own conclusion.

[Arielle Popstar]

The code to allow for seamless crossings is already in a number of third party viewers courtesy of Opensim. But it needs code on the server side which LL up till now at least has not been interested in, though they have been asked to.

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

Does this "Seamless" possibility literally mean that the entire SL grid becomes one gigantic "seamless" sim region without any borders? Because I don't think that's plausible, unless SL is actually on the surface of a gigantic planet-sized sphere! It could also mean we'd all live on a flat world with 4 sides, where moving to the extreme ends of the map would make one reappear on the opposite side of the "seamless" map in a 2D "Pac Man" style way?

Having SL as one gigantic sim region could ruin a lot of things, especially some scripted items which rely on conventional region coordinates for their operation and landmarks too. They'd become broken and useless, right? And ban lists would result in either everyone being unbanned across the entire world or fully banned from the whole thing!

I hope "Seamless" doesn't mean this.

Edited June 15, 2023 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[Arielle Popstar]

8 minutes ago, SarahKB7 Koskinen said:

Does this possibility literally mean that the entire SL grid becomes one gigantic sim region?  If so, I can imagine that ruining a lot of things, especially scripted items which rely on conventional region coordinates for their operation and landmarks too. They'd become broken and useless, right?

Not exactly, it would be like 2x2, 5x5 areas where it is seamless over an area of 4, 25, etc regions. There would need to be some configuration changes so would be best on new regions verses existing ones.

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

Even partially seamless could still cause a lot problems.

I feel SL is now too well established with its current system to start messing about with a "seamless" one that would cause massive issues.

I suppose one possiblility is to have a new second "seamless" SL on another alternate grid and start all over again there instead. I doubt that would be financially feasible though.

Edited June 15, 2023 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[Arielle Popstar]

5 minutes ago, SarahKB7 Koskinen said:

Even partially seamless could still cause a lot problems. Hmm.

I feel SL is now too well established with its current system to start messing about with a different "seamless" one that would cause massive issues.

Regions are independent of each other if they are private so LL could easily offer them if someone wanted to have a larger land area that didn't overlap existing regions. There would of course be some server side changes needed but entirely possible to do without a major rewrite. That wheel doesn't need to be reinvented, it has been around for 15 years or so in Opensim.

[Sid Nagy]

56 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Regions are independent of each other if they are private so LL could easily offer them if someone wanted to have a larger land area that didn't overlap existing regions. There would of course be some server side changes needed but entirely possible to do without a major rewrite. That wheel doesn't need to be reinvented, it has been around for 15 years or so in Opensim.

Opensim is a totally different ball game IMHO. Almost everybody solitaire in their own little world stretched to the size of a few SL sims.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

Got excited for a second when I saw the title thread. I still crash my scooter when I cross sims. Is it my speeding? maybe. 

[Arielle Popstar]

33 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Opensim is a totally different ball game IMHO. Almost everybody solitaire in their own little world stretched to the size of a few SL sims.

It is not about Opensim but the technical aspects of seamless regions. I'm pointing out that the ability is already built into a number of the TPV's and just needs the corresponding server side code to take advantage of it. Having said that, I feel you are wrong about both the size and population of Opensim but just as SL noobs don't know where to go to find others in S/L, the same is true for Opensim noobs except more so as Opensim doesn't have bots cruising about the grids to find populated regions and publishing it. Last figures I looked for the regions on various grids that are public and published shows Opensim in equivalent land area equal to 4 times the size of SL with even more that are hidden.

[Sid Nagy]

9 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

It is not about Opensim but the technical aspects of seamless regions. I'm pointing out that the ability is already built into a number of the TPV's and just needs the corresponding server side code to take advantage of it. Having said that, I feel you are wrong about both the size and population of Opensim but just as SL noobs don't know where to go to find others in S/L, the same is true for Opensim noobs except more so as Opensim doesn't have bots cruising about the grids to find populated regions and publishing it. Last figures I looked for the regions on various grids that are public and published shows Opensim in equivalent land area equal to 4 times the size of SL with even more that are hidden.

Yes, but very little community sense. All small grids sailing under the same flag.
Much less community and so less need to cross sims  than in SL.