Linden Lab vs. The Residents

[Silent Mistwalker]

14 hours ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I feel like Belli needs to feel like a town ngl. I think if they plan on adding more to premium plus, then they need to add commercial lots to Belli. Then you can have a downtown area, with all that. Heck they could even put an SL history museum downtown. 

Belli is fine the way it is. 

Something needs to be done with all the abandoned land. I offered a feasible solution to a good portion of it, but let's not go overboard with it.

[Silent Mistwalker]

14 hours ago, MoiraKathleen said:

I don't think Bellisseria needs any commercial lots at all.  I have no problem with someone wanting to create a shopping area, or a residential area with a town square with shops or a downtown area, either on mainland or private estates, but not LL in the Linden Home areas.  

LL providing a basic home for residents who have paid for premium membership is one thing - but LL potentially providing a free shop space to a creator just for being a premium member is going too far, in my mind. 

If a creator decides to go premium but doesn't need (or want) a LH, they can use their free tier allowance on mainland for their shop and after the initial purchase cost they wouldn't have any monthly tier for their shop unless they expanded into a larger parcel size.

I didn't say LL should offer free shops. Just want to make that clear. People will have to pay tier/rent on the parcels. An individual could buy several parcels and rent them out. 

Not much would really change. It would all be handled pretty much the same way Belli is except it's commercial, not residential.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

15 hours ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I feel like Belli needs to feel like a town ngl. I think if they plan on adding more to premium plus, then they need to add commercial lots to Belli. Then you can have a downtown area, with all that. Heck they could even put an SL history museum downtown. 

I actually agree with this. Sort of.

To be more precise, I personally would find Belli a lot more attractive if there were town squares with limited, carefully-regulated shopping and other facilities. Art galleries, for instance. Maybe a club (again, carefully regulated). These would need to be regulated because, first, they might otherwise contribute too much to lag, and secondly, they might otherwise spoil the aesthetic and sense of a residential community. Right now, Belli is too much like a middle American subdivision, of the sort that one requires a car to live in. It needs some variation.

But, as I say, this would be my personal preference. I get that a majority (probably) of Belli residents are happy with the way things are, for the same reasons, I suppose, that suburbia is still for some a desirable place to live. So it won't happen.

But until there is something like this offered as part of a more urbanish theme, I'm really not interested myself.

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I actually agree with this. Sort of.

To be more precise, I personally would find Belli a lot more attractive if there were town squares with limited, carefully-regulated shopping and other facilities. Art galleries, for instance. Maybe a club (again, carefully regulated). These would need to be regulated because, first, they might otherwise contribute too much to lag, and secondly, they might otherwise spoil the aesthetic and sense of a residential community. Right now, Belli is too much like a middle American subdivision, of the sort that one requires a car to live in. It needs some variation.

But, as I say, this would be my personal preference. I get that a majority (probably) of Belli residents are happy with the way things are, for the same reasons, I suppose, that suburbia is still for some a desirable place to live. So it won't happen.

But until there is something like this offered as part of a more urbanish theme, I'm really not interested myself.

 

If I were premium, it would be my preference as well. If I were premium. 🤐

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

If I were premium, it would be my preference as well. If I were premium. 🤐

Well, for the moment, that there isn't this choice is one of the reasons I am NOT premium.

At some point, though, I'd like a plot of mainland for a farm or garden, so I may go that way. But not for a Linden Home, as they are now.

[Gabriele Graves]

The title of this topic suggested to me a boxing match between LL and the residents.  Any appetite for blood sports?  Perhaps a boxing arena in Belli where every week a Linden or Mole takes on the best resident that Belli can put forward

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

5 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I actually agree with this. Sort of.

To be more precise, I personally would find Belli a lot more attractive if there were town squares with limited, carefully-regulated shopping and other facilities. Art galleries, for instance. Maybe a club (again, carefully regulated). These would need to be regulated because, first, they might otherwise contribute too much to lag, and secondly, they might otherwise spoil the aesthetic and sense of a residential community. Right now, Belli is too much like a middle American subdivision, of the sort that one requires a car to live in. It needs some variation.

But, as I say, this would be my personal preference. I get that a majority (probably) of Belli residents are happy with the way things are, for the same reasons, I suppose, that suburbia is still for some a desirable place to live. So it won't happen.

But until there is something like this offered as part of a more urbanish theme, I'm really not interested myself.

 

I know it's not really on topic for this thread, but I'm game to go down this stream of the conversation.  I have no problem with things like museums, art galleries, a zoo, amusement parks, or even school buildings in the neighborhoods (these would compete with other resident builds though.)  I can see those more urban options doing well in a Newbrooke-type area.  As long as it is for role play those seem like things families in neighborhoods would want to take the kids to.  There are community centers, public beaches, and picnic areas provided now.  What I don't want to see is profit making businesses moving in.

[Gabriele Graves]

7 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I have no problem with things like museums, art galleries, a zoo, amusement parks, or even school buildings in the neighborhoods (these would compete with other resident builds though.)  I can see those more urban options doing well in a Newbrooke-type area.  As long as it is for role play those seem like things families in neighborhoods would want to take the kids to.  There are community centers, public beaches, and picnic areas provided now.  What I don't want to see is profit making businesses moving in.

I'd agree with this this too.  More fake and interesting venues would be great, no actual commerce.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

9 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

What I don't want to see is profit making businesses moving in.

I can understand this. If there WERE actual businesses, again . . . I'd want them very well regulated.

But, as Gabriele says, fake stores would add to the ambiance without introducing the complications.

[Gabriele Graves]

Would also help avoid creating more cookie cutter map monotony potentially.
 

[Silent Mistwalker]

Good thing LL will never go for my dream. It's already being distorted. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 🤐

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I can understand this. If there WERE actual businesses, again . . . I'd want them very well regulated.

But, as Gabriele says, fake stores would add to the ambiance without introducing the complications.

I was thrilled when a resident turned their Newbrooke into a public bowling alley.  It didn't follow building codes and was returned unfortunately, but it was  fun idea.  Others have turned their homes into cafes and tea houses.  Another resident turned theirs ino a really fun haunted house.  Someone made a driver's license office or something similar.  There are still resident made, creative places to find, but you're right, there is no city center. 

[Paul Hexem]

7 hours ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

Every region has costs associated with it.   Linden owned regions still have costs.

And? It's still less than what a resident landlord pays.

The suggestion was that a resident landlord should put environmental/community development into their regions to compete with Linden Homes, but as long as the landlord has to add a markup to pay LL, they'll never be able to compete with it.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I'd agree with this this too.  More fake and interesting venues would be great, no actual commerce.

Fake commerce is better than real commerce.

It brings more diversity of venue than just shops that only sell utility or vanity because that's all they can sell.

No one is going to pay for rides in a virtual fun fair, so by the laws of SL economics, fun fairs are rare.

[Gabriele Graves]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Fake commerce is better than real commerce.

It brings more diversity of venue than just shops that only sell utility or vanity because that's all they can sell.

No one is going to pay for rides in a virtual fun fair, so by the laws of SL economics, fun fairs are rare.

Yes, this is what I was getting at too.  Everything can more easily be kept in theme and there is no churn to venues coming and going.

[Jaylinbridges]

3 hours ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

What I don't want to see is profit making businesses moving in.

This is what a town with no profit making businesses looks like in RL, or is this SL mainland?

 

 

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

5 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

This is what a town with no profit making businesses looks like in RL, or is this SL mainland?

 

 

There are too many structures in a theme for that to be mainland 😄

[Crim Mip]

On 9/14/2022 at 7:44 PM, Casper Warden said:

For the record,  LL reached out to me asking about things that could be improved with the second life service to help with our services and business in general. It wasn't immediately a discussion about acquisition. But we (eventually) mutually reached that conclusion.  

CasperTech wasn't in trouble or at risk, but I am certainly looking forward to being able to invest more time into development.

Much love to all ❤️ 

I imagine not having to worry about maintaining the servers will allow you to spend more time making the systems even better.

[diamond Marchant]

On 9/14/2022 at 11:07 AM, Lindal Kidd said:

There really needs to be more separation between what LL does, and profits from, and what residents do, and profit from.

LL has already made three giant steps into the creators' bailiwick

Returning to the OP... i would also add "residents' balliwick".

I hold that Lindens/Mole should follow a rule for "guardian angels" as presented in The Preacher's Wife, specially "An angel should not do what you should be doing". Substitute "Lindens/Moles" for "angel".

The reasoning is that Second Life has "no manufactured conflict, no set objective", consequently, residents find things to do that they enjoy. If the Lindens/Moles usurp some of these activities, then residents are disadvantaged.

Clearly there are grey areas, and the Casper situation may be one. A resident can do this but it may be that the function is actually better served by Lindens.

But there are clear examples (to me) where Lindens do NOT do  better than residents and may make things worse. Here are some examples.

Administration of the Second Life Birthday - For many years this was supported by Lindens but run by residents. Since SL16B it has been Linden run. It is clear that the event has lost it's WOW factor and is primarily a vehicle for Linden marketing. The exhibitor experience is greatly diminished due to being understaffed. Kudos to the moles who make it happen regardless.

Bellisseria Community Centers - Public spaces are good but static public spaces that are repetitive within a theme are not so good. Would it not be better to include more options for temporary resident builds, such as we have at the fairgrounds. And (to beat a dead horse) why can't DJs have tip jars in Belli? DJs have expenses and it is reasonable for listeners to share those expenses on a voluntary basis. Even the Lindens allow tip jars at their "non-commercial" events. Chaos will NOT ensue as some predict.

Fantasy Wedding Venue - Seriously? Residents should be providing things like wedding venues. And why fantasy? I would have preferred a free Elvis chapel.

Edited September 18, 2022 by diamond Marchant

[Sasy Scarborough]

They could create a town square vibe without it being commercial...Aurelia's region for instance is a town square look with shops all around the small park area, and even though they are all 'stores' they do not sell anything, they have just been decorated to look like stores. There are so many items that have been created over the years to be store props that this would be completely manageable, and not be Moles needing to create the content. It could even be done in a way like the Art installation regions were, you could put in an application to be given a store submit your theme idea and if you were awarded one of the stores, you decorate it with a prim limit and it becomes part of the community for a year ? then it gets wiped and new people have their chance, again no different than say the setting up of space at the SLB etc. But nothing is sold. Each space could even have a theme, some could be seasonal, some could be fantasy etc. Could even be something people travel to and perhaps even judge on best display just for fun. This would be amazing around holidays, a Winter Wonderland, a Haunted theme, and so on. 

People could even create teams to decorate their 'store' display etc. People could get really involved as a whole community, and if it does not produce the outcome that LL is happy with, they remove it and we tried and we try something else in the future.

[rasterscan]

Belli has been a very successful venture for the labs. But swathes of Belliserians want to be able to shop there. C'mon LL, stay in the groove and make it happen.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, rasterscan said:

Belli has been a very successful venture for the labs. But swathes of Belliserians want to be able to shop there. C'mon LL, stay in the groove and make it happen.

I was thinking yesterday, how in Bellisseria they probably can't even have "garage sales",  or "estate sales" (like in RL when someone dies and their stuff is sold off).

[Jaylinbridges]

17 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I was thinking yesterday, how in Bellisseria they probably can't even have "garage sales",  or "estate sales" (like in RL when someone dies and their stuff is sold off).

Nope, they don't want those low class bargain hunters rummaging through garage sales, only to resell it at mainland flea markets. (Cash only please, we don't need no stinkin' receipts.)

Edited September 18, 2022 by Jaylinbridges

[Ati Thei]

There's nothing wrong with acquiring those services, they have grown and became essential to business. If they are suddenly gone it will negatively affect everyone.

But yes, of course they are going monetize CasperVend, that's why they Patch Linden worded the post as such - "foreseeable future" which is vague.

Can't really blame LL for the Linden Homes too. They make things easier and ..prettier. Resident-run business land can't run on this scale. I see it as a replacement for "mainland" which looks atrocious.

[Persephone Emerald]

19 hours ago, diamond Marchant said:

Returning to the OP... i would also add "residents' balliwick".

I hold that Lindens/Mole should follow a rule for "guardian angels" as presented in The Preacher's Wife, specially "An angel should not do what you should be doing". Substitute "Lindens/Moles" for "angel".

The reasoning is that Second Life has "no manufactured conflict, no set objective", consequently, residents find things to do that they enjoy. If the Lindens/Moles usurp some of these activities, then residents are disadvantaged.

Clearly there are grey areas, and the Casper situation may be one. A resident can do this but it may be that the function is actually better served by Lindens.

But there are clear examples (to me) where Lindens do NOT do  better than residents and may make things worse. Here are some examples.

Administration of the Second Life Birthday - For many years this was supported by Lindens but run by residents. Since SL16B it has been Linden run. It is clear that the event has lost it's WOW factor and is primarily a vehicle for Linden marketing. The exhibitor experience is greatly diminished due to being understaffed. Kudos to the moles who make it happen regardless.

Bellisseria Community Centers - Public spaces are good but static public spaces that are repetitive within a theme are not so good. Would it not be better to include more options for temporary resident builds, such as we have at the fairgrounds. And (to beat a dead horse) why can't DJs have tip jars in Belli? DJs have expenses and it is reasonable for listeners to share those expenses on a voluntary basis. Even the Lindens allow tip jars at their "non-commercial" events. Chaos will NOT ensue as some predict.

Fantasy Wedding Venue - Seriously? Residents should be providing things like wedding venues. And why fantasy? I would have preferred a free Elvis chapel.

I'm in agreement about allowing limited tip jars in Bellisseria. There's also an Elvis marriage preacher in the lodge for the Campers.