SL new user retention, expectation and usability

[Finite]

34 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Wait, what????

 

15 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

In the original LL viewer, it works that way.
I have no clue what other viewers have to offer.

Catznip also does this. If there’s a photo in the folder you can hover over the folder in your inventory and a pop up of the photo will appear.

[Sparkle Bunny]

Also Firestorm. I have an alt on PP+ for a month so I'm using the free texture uploads to populate everyone's outfit gallery. But before that I studiously ignored that tab for years because I didn't want to pay to upload the images and it hadn't occurred to me to test whether I could use local textures. (Could I? No idea, but I've not had much luck with local textures persisting between logins so probably not.)

[Paul Hexem]

3 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

I was reading the achieved forums and noticed in one thread, the main thing new people wanted even back then was a weapon.  I wonder if they still come here thinking "If I kill enough people, I can upgrade my avatar". 

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

OH OH!

I like this idea!

I'm going to start a new thread listing people whom we should tag with targets on their backs!

Achievements like Xbox games have isn't a terrible idea.

"Change or remove clothing layers. 10 points earned."

"Attach an item. 10 points earned."

"50/50 women hit on at a beach region. 100 points earned."

[Scylla Rhiadra]

6 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Achievements like Xbox games have isn't a terrible idea.

"Change or remove clothing layers. 10 points earned."

"Attach an item. 10 points earned."

"50/50 women hit on at a beach region. 100 points earned."

Make Scylla laugh at a really dumb sexist joke. Priceless.

[Seicher Rae]

1 hour ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Click the left arrow at the upper left of the Edit Outfit window, if you see it. That takes you here:

https://gyazo.com/fafd2033ff2c43b02e863dd9dbcaf3a5

Then click the leftmost tab, Outfit Gallery, and you will see:

https://gyazo.com/432243e20c91fded9463e3e3dce99bb6

You'll notice in that image that a whole lot of my Outfits show the same picture. If I had been more conscientious, I would have taken a snapshot of myself, then dragged it and dropped it on the tile for that Outfit.

So, you know there's this thread about "you know you've been in SL too long when..."?  Well I pulled up your gyazo. And on the bottom one I just tried, three times, to pull the scroll bar down so I could see more of the outfits. Then... "oh."

Which viewer is this in?

[Gabriele Graves]

40 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Achievements like Xbox games have isn't a terrible idea.

"Change or remove clothing layers. 10 points earned."

"Attach an item. 10 points earned."

"50/50 women hit on at a beach region. 100 points earned."

The kind of achievements that might work the most, you cannot give points for.

"Start a meaningful friendship."
"Strike up a mutually interesting conversation with someone"

etc...

Edited August 15, 2022 by Gabriele Graves

[LittleMe Jewell]

13 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

We've been over this before, but the poll that I have had going for years with something like 800 answers now says that the thing most newbies want the most is "jobs". They want "jobs" because it gives them money to pay for "the game's" expenses and "things to do". It's like an immigrant coming into a new country. They want a job. And there aren't jobs as such, i.e. skilling or mining like in a game, and even those jobs that are lowly still require a certain degree of skill and a network of social ties. 

This is definitely an issue for those that manage to get past that 10 minute mark.  We do get questions in the forums quite a bit about how to get a job.

When I started, there were still money trees, camping places, and lots of lucky boards.  So I was able to get some L$ and some freebies right away, and the camping places & lucky chair places also provided a bit of the social aspect, since we'd all chat while camping or waiting for our letter to come up.

[Arielle Popstar]

48 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Achievements like Xbox games have isn't a terrible idea.

"Change or remove clothing layers. 10 points earned."

"Attach an item. 10 points earned."

"50/50 women hit on at a beach region. 100 points earned."

Instead of Points make it Lindens and there will be a good chance more will stay longer then 10 minutes. Those money trees they had back 10-12 years ago was my only way to make anything when I first started and it kept me coming back more regularly just to snag 1L bills off the trees. I started to meet people and get more involved as I did.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

Instead of Points make it Lindens and there will be a good chance more will stay longer then 10 minutes. Those money trees they had back 10-12 years ago was my only way to make anything when I first started and it kept me coming back more regularly just to snag 1L bills off the trees. I started to meet people and get more involved as I did.

The theory is a good one. The problem is that it would get gamed very quickly.

[Arielle Popstar]

4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

This is definitely an issue for those that manage to get past that 10 minute mark.  We do get questions in the forums quite a bit about how to get a job.

When I started, there were still money trees, camping places, and lots of lucky boards.  So I was able to get some L$ and some freebies right away, and the camping places & lucky chair places also provided a bit of the social aspect, since we'd all chat while camping or waiting for our letter to come up.

Even when I was in Osgrid greeting and welcoming new people I would often get asked on how to make money there and when I would point out that the majority of content was free and there was no monies anyway, people were almost disappointed. So yes, a way to get some L$ would be an excellent motivation to keep some coming back.

[Stephanie Misfit]

52 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Achievements like Xbox games have isn't a terrible idea.

"Change or remove clothing layers. 10 points earned."

"Attach an item. 10 points earned."

"50/50 women hit on at a beach region. 100 points earned."

Jokes aside, I do think achievements would be fun and something that could appeal to new people, especially gamers. I like the email you get on your rez day that tells you the different things you have done over the year (number of teleports etc) and compares you to the average resident. 

[Arielle Popstar]

13 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The theory is a good one. The problem is that it would get gamed very quickly.

Maybe but can't let the pessimism stop one from trying and surely something to be learned from fixing any gaming that might come up. Upping the user retention rate is or should be the most important aspect of the Lab's efforts because without that, the slow decline can only eventually lead to one outcome.

[Ardy Lay]

When I first came to Second Life, the viewer came bundled with all the textures for the starting region.  That region rendered quickly and rather well on the CAD workstation I had at the time.  The video card wasn't something I would call a GPU.  It was essentially a VGA card with an intel RISC processor to speed up drawing of graphics primitives and texture filling.  I was on a dial-up modem for Internet connection.  I would walk around in my skinny noob avatar with red sneakers.  There was a tutorial thing on the screen.  It wasn't large.  It was directing me to approach signs for guidance with tasks and it gave encouragement when I completed something, like changing shoes, tinting my socks and making a new shirt.  One of the weird things it asked me to do was select a vehicle and drive it to tun over a "cyber rat".  I remember two of the vehicles, a Segway looking thing and a pavement roller.  Naturally I selected the pavement roller.  Another thing I was directed to try was jumping and flying.  At one point I was directed to fly over a building to reach the next area.

I wonder... Is there is a video of this place somewhere?

Somewhere around version 1.19 or 1.20, LL stopped including this region's textures in their viewer installer, so that may be about when the onboarding experience I had ceased to exist.

[Lindal Kidd]

2 hours ago, Seicher Rae said:

Which viewer is this in?

Firestorm, but I'm told the standard viewer works this way too.

[Seicher Rae]

Just now, Lindal Kidd said:

Firestorm, but I'm told the standard viewer works this way too.

Thanks! I thought that looked like FS. Geez. I'm such a noob, which, well I've been retained so I'm on topic.

[Coffee Pancake]

4 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

But we can! It could be as simple as every creator taking a picture of their item, and uploading it with the item. That picture would then become a part of the item's properties, and could be displayed directly by the inventory, by hovering over the item or clicking it.

What we have right now is basically one picture per folder or collection .. that's fine if you manually set up an outfit, but for general inventory, that's not ever going to work and falls down the moment you unpack a box with 2 different items in it.

Adding a picture UUID field to assets (like we have description now) would be something and creators could put box pictures in .. but this dies on the "what about all the old stuff with no picture" hill .. Basically, if it can't solve the problem for all items everywhere right back to the dawn of time, LL wont touch it. This is why we don't have object tagging and a lot of other nice to have things.

The outfits folder functionality is not in any way comparable to an IMVU pictorial inventory.

2 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

Achievements like Xbox games have isn't a terrible idea.

"Change or remove clothing layers. 10 points earned."

"Attach an item. 10 points earned."

"50/50 women hit on at a beach region. 100 points earned."

Achievements are great for a few reasons, although they are more for after the first 10 minutes.

There is the reward element, and the collector element .. scoff all you like, if LL add them, we will ALL jump though ALL the hoops to collect them all. Even the crazy grindy dumb ones, and they can be a way to direct a user to different areas of the product that they might not organically find.

That is a discussion we've had and if I remember rightly it attracted nothing but scorn from people who hate fun, even when it only happens others.

[Coffee Pancake]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The theory is a good one. The problem is that it would get gamed very quickly.

I think making it a L bonus is a good idea, but there is no way to stop it being gamed

If there wasn't L involved then who cares, let people game the crap out of it.

[Lindal Kidd]

1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said:

if it can't solve the problem for all items everywhere right back to the dawn of time, LL wont touch it.

You may be right about LL's position on this, but I think it's incorrect. Most people will be using newer items...items from the Library, which LL can control, and newer freebies, which the creators can tag relatively easily. Older items will seldom be used, and it should be OK to simply default them to the old "object box" depiction.

 

4 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

for general inventory, that's not ever going to work and falls down the moment you unpack a box with 2 different items in it.

I don't see how that is a show-stopper. If it's something like, say, a dress with a Maitreya and a Kupra version, just tag both with the same picture. If it's more like a skirt and a top, they can each have separate pictures, or perhaps tag them with the same picture of them being worn as an outfit.

[Rowan Amore]

Tokens that can be exchanged for items donated by creators.  This also informs new users of what those content creators make and with the included LM, when they're ready to buy, they know where to go.  No Ls involved, just tokens.  They also learn how to make a purchase,  unbox something, find it in inventory, etc.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

10 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Firestorm, but I'm told the standard viewer works this way too.

Lol

You labelled your outfit "summer bimbo"?

Lol

[Arielle Popstar]

17 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Tokens that can be exchanged for items donated by creators.  This also informs new users of what those content creators make and with the included LM, when they're ready to buy, they know where to go.  No Ls involved, just tokens.  They also learn how to make a purchase,  unbox something, find it in inventory, etc.

Donated stuff would wind up being 3rd rate content. At least when they are making Lindens they get something of value usable anywhere and on whatever they like.

[Arielle Popstar]

23 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I think making it a L bonus is a good idea, but there is no way to stop it being gamed

If there wasn't L involved then who cares, let people game the crap out of it.

As long as it's L$ from the Lab, then we shouldn't need to care either. They make enough of it they can give some back and will motivate them to stop any gaming. It is after all to their benefit to increase the retention rate.

[Rowan Amore]

9 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Donated stuff would wind up being 3rd rate content. At least when they are making Lindens they get something of value usable anywhere and on whatever they like.

Why would that be the case?  It would be in the creators best interest to.provide a quality piece.  If I received junk, even for free, I'd certainly NOT go to that store if I was wanting to make a purchase.  There is still good content out there in regular sizing that include alpha layers.  Those items can be worn on some starter avatars.

This goes back to offering these items to new users when the NUX avatar comes out.  If LL worked with content creators to offer a package of free items for new users, everyone wins.  People will eventually buy from those stores, those stores make money, that money gets cashed out, LL reaps the rewards.  Win-win and win.

[Seicher Rae]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

Why would that be the case?  It would be in the creators best interest to.provide a quality piece.  If I received junk, even for free, I'd certainly NOT go to that store if I was wanting to make a purchase.  There is still good content out there in regular sizing that include alpha layers.  Those items can be worn on some starter avatars.

This goes back to offering these items to new users when the NUX avatar comes out.  If LL worked with content creators to offer a package of free items for new users, everyone wins.  People will eventually buy from those stores, those stores make money, that money gets cashed out, LL reaps the rewards.  Win-win and win.

That would seem to be the case, but some stores never seem to grasp this. Some of the freebies at the Shop N Hops, or the weekend sales, are junk. Wasted opportunity and like you, I don't go back to the store.  

But to stay on point, while I see Arielle's point (see above) I'm falling into your camp of "good idea." 

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Seicher Rae said:

That would seem to be the case, but some stores never seem to grasp this. Some of the freebies at the Shop N Hops, or the weekend sales, are junk. Wasted opportunity and like you, I don't go back to the store.  

But to stay on point, while I see Arielle's point (see above) I'm falling into your camp of "good idea." 

The difference being most people at Shop & Hop are already invested in SL.  We're already shopping!  We all have our favorite stores and I agree, putting out junk as a free item at those type of places does the store a disservice if I've never shopped there before.

New residents are the ones you need to grab with your quality item.  "Dang, that looks awesome!  Let me see what else they have."

Purchasing with tokens solves many issues raised.  Am I going to bother going through the inboarding, doing the tasks, just to receive something free?  Maybe but probably not.  With new residents, it gives them a goal with a nice reward at the end.