SL new user retention, expectation and usability

[Persephone Emerald]

All the Lindens should be required to create a newbie account and go through the new user experience - maybe even once a year, so they can understand why there's such a big new user retention problem. This platform can't survive unless more new users decide to stay and put money into it.

[Rolig Loon]

18 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

as suggested earlier WASD should be the default to move around, the mouse should operate the same as it does in larger games so that people feel more comfortable with the transition,

That assumes, of course, that newcomers to SL are "transitioning" from a game somewhere.  Certainly some are, but that assumption implies that LL ought to be aiming specifically at attracting more gamers.  That has been debated here in the forums a lot and I am sure it has also been debated in LL.  It's still an open question, as far as I know.

Even if you think that's the right way for SL to go, prior experience can be handy but shouldn't be a straightjacket, as far as I am concerned.  As a RL analogy, when I rent a car in the UK I don't moan and groan that Brits drive on the wrong side of the road and that their cars' controls are all backwards. I accept that I am the newbie and I adapt.  

Purely at a personal level, I find WASD awkward and the silly movement widget on the screen extremely annoying. Within weeks of entering SL,  I discovered that I could do magic with the arrow keys and my mouse so I ditched those other methods and never looked back. 

[Coffee Pancake]

13 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

All the Lindens should be required to create a newbie account and go through the new user experience - maybe even once a year, so they can understand why there's such a big new user retention problem. This platform can't survive unless more new users decide to stay and put money into it.

They should also be required to play a few actual games to get some perspective of what's expected in terms of look and feel.

Most people who only play SL would be amazed at what their hardware is actually capable of.

[Sid Nagy]

The concept of SL is 19 years old.
Based on what was possible in those days.
Now how is it possible that it is so hard to attrackt new people?

I saw the world (internet, social media, games) change faster than SL did.
Why am I still active? Because I'm an old fart now, who doesn't like (to much) changes anymore.
Younger people want something else. Some excitement, something that astonishes them.

SL isn't (and never will be again) that new hot place in town. It is a 19 year old place full of oldbies, paying idiotic amounts of money to play there.

All generally speaking of course.
But for me it is totally logic people don't stay or return after a swift check it out period.

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Sid Nagy

[Nalates Urriah]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

So how in the world did we get Sansar out of all this knowledge?

The new factor was the VR headset. The Lab bought into the hype just as many others did and do. The idea of VR seems to generally be collapsing. So regardless of what the Lab did or didn't know, Sansar was doomed.

[Ceka Cianci]

A lot of the conversations going on that I was hearing last night and today was about how they could improve their avatars.

Also some talk about hearing that it is expensive to do so. then hearing someone reply that all my things were free..

I think I'm just gonna keep this avatar here and hang around and listen in to see who is asking what questions..

I'm finding it interesting.

 

[Nalates Urriah]

2 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

The concept of SL is 19 years old.
Based on what was possible in those days.
Now how is it possible that it is so hard to attrackt new people?

I saw the world (internet, social media, games) change faster than SL did.
Why am I still active? Because I'm an old fart now, who doesn't like (to much) changes anymore.
Younger people want something else.
SL isn't (and never will be again) that new hot place in town. It is a 19 year old place full of oldbies, paying idiotic amounts of money to play there.

All generally speaking of course.
But for me it is totally logic people don't stay or return after a swift check it out period.

 

I think you missed the point. Attracting new users is the easy part. The Lab seems to have it figured out. Even getting people to signup goes well. Getting them to stay is the problem.

What does the younger generation want? With the primary battlefield of the 21st century being the theater of human cognition and how to change how we think, it is going to be even harder to figure out... unless the governments actually gets people reprogrammed to want what the government is selling. We sort of see that coming into SL with the Lab deciding you can only talk about SL stuff int he forum. But Second LIFE is based on all the complications and aspects of LIFE. Limiting life limits all of that.

We'll see what happens to use numbers over the next year.

[Modulated]

13 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

The new factor was the VR headset. The Lab bought into the hype just as many others did and do. The idea of VR seems to generally be collapsing. So regardless of what the Lab did or didn't know, Sansar was doomed.

I think VR is still wanted just without the headset. The tech has to catch up for that .

[Arielle Popstar]

58 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Arielle's suggestion of a GUI Inventory makes sense, too. Instead of every Object looking like a tiny cube, have a little snapshot of the item open up when hovering over it.

33 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

We can't do that, to see an object it must be placed in world somehow and rendered. Doing this comes with certain undesirable side effects - the object is no longer in inventory, scripts fire, attach points change, etc. To place an object in world and not have those things happen is wide open to object duplication vulnerabilities.

Arielle want's IMVU's inventory, the closest we have is the CTS wardrobe and that's involved and complicated to get working well, there is no way we can automate all the manual decision making that goes into setting that up.

 

Go take a look at Casper Vends redelivery hud and see how many items have a ready made picture included. If they can do it then surely the Lab can utilize similar code and links to do the same for the Inventory itself.

An Imvu style inventory would be great and I am sure it can be done in spite of your protestations to the contrary but probably it needs viewer as well as server side code that has direct access to the inventory database in addition to  cooperation from the MP Creators when they submit products.

Even just changing the icons themselves would be a start to differentiate a clothing item from a building one. 

[Istelathis]

36 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

That assumes, of course, that newcomers to SL are "transitioning" from a game somewhere.

I think at this point it is safe to assume the majority of people trying 3d worlds have had experience with others, the demographic of the world has shifted a lot since the early 2000s and there have been standards used by the larger platforms.  WASD is one such standard, mouse movement is pretty common as well, inventory management is another along with a preview screen for outfits, alongside of a paper doll window for placing items.  The outfits often have a separate icon or image as well.

These are all basics that most platforms have now, and seeing how common virtual words have become, they would probably help tremendously with the new user experience.  If a person comes into SL, they may easily grow frustrated with the controls, they may feel overwhelmed by their inventory, and figure that SL is just not worth the time investing to learn a new set of controls.  

As Coffee Pancake stated, the first ten minutes and they are gone.  I think a lot of this could be addressed if we made the transition easier for them (and optional for the rest of us).  If they had some familiarity with the controls, they could branch out their knowledge from there.  

In addition, one thing I have noticed with my behavior is the bigger the download, the less likely I am to give up as easily when it comes to a game.  If I spent the past 10 hours downloading something, I will invest at least a few hours in it - with SL it is probably a five minute download, perhaps ten minutes.  First impressions are even more important, there is no real incentive to keep trying for a lot of people.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Istelathis

[Seicher Rae]

I'm very glad ASWD are not the move keys. Hate that. Understand why others feel the opposite though.

[Blaise Glendevon]

I've been playing MMOs since 2004, and the first thing I do is re-keybind my controls off WASD. I'm left handed, and mouse with my left hand. 

[Ceka Cianci]

1 minute ago, Seicher Rae said:

I'm very glad ASWD are not the move keys. Hate that. Understand why others feel the opposite though.

I use a mix of AWSD, The cam controls and the movement controls..

My left hand for movements and working the others with my mouse. I don't think I could ever just use keys for all that stuff..

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The idea that younger people have no attention span or aren't up for a challenge is garbage.

I think I've been misinterpreted as to my meaning of instant gratification.

It's not that I think people have no attention span or aren't up for the challenge.

If people come from playing other games, as it seems all others besides me do, than they come with expectations of being able to do certain things straight off the bat.  Upgrade your character being the main one.  There are no hidden things or missions to accomplish to get that upgrade.  There is nothing goal focused per se.  

I was reading the achieved forums and noticed in one thread, the main thing new people wanted even back then was a weapon.  I wonder if they still come here thinking "If I kill enough people, I can upgrade my avatar". 

 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Rowan Amore

[Sid Nagy]

37 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

I think you missed the point. Attracting new users is the easy part. The Lab seems to have it figured out. Even getting people to signup goes well. Getting them to stay is the problem.

No I did not miss the point. Read my last line in my post that you quoted.

SL simply does not offer what most people want when they think of a virtual world.
That was not the case when SL was a hype, nor is it now 19 years old, with a few dots of fresh paint here and there.
SL never got past being a total niche market.

Don't ask me what all these potential users do want from a virtual world, I'm no researcher, but it is clear after 19 years of totally low retention rates that they don't want SL the way it is.
And I assume it is something fundamental, not lack of a good welcome area, or pictures in an inventory shown or not or better avatars.

There must be somehow a big flaw in the concept of how SL works for most people that peek in and leave to never return..

Edited August 15, 2022 by Sid Nagy

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I was reading the achieved forums and noticed in one thread, the main thing new people wanted even back then was a weapon.  I wonder if they still come here thinking "If I kill enough people, I can upgrade my avatar".

OH OH!

I like this idea!

I'm going to start a new thread listing people whom we should tag with targets on their backs!

[Rowan Amore]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

OH OH!

I like this idea!

I'm going to start a new thread listing people whom we should tag with targets on their backs!

*makes a note to never turn her back on Scylla

[Scylla Rhiadra]

25 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

I think at this point it is safe to assume the majority of people trying 3d worlds have had experience with others, the demographic of the world has shifted a lot since the early 2000s and there have been standards used by the larger platforms.  WASD is one such standard, mouse movement is pretty common as well, inventory management is another along with a preview screen for outfits, alongside of a paper doll window for placing items.  The outfits often have a separate icon or image as well.

These are all basics that most platforms have now, and seeing how common virtual words have become, they would probably help tremendously with the new user experience.  If a person comes into SL, they may easily grow frustrated with the controls, they may feel overwhelmed by their inventory, and figure that SL is just not worth the time investing to learn a new set of controls.

Interestingly, Black Dragon's interface has been designed, at least in terms of movement, key shortcuts, and menus, with much of this thinking in mind: I think those used to playing games find it much more intuitive. I don't, so I almost immediately changed the defaults, but there may be something to this.

[Ceka Cianci]

I'm back there and in firestorm this time.. I crossed over into Central Park.. I have everything turned up to ultra and must say  it looks a lot better and things are rezzing so much better and staying rezzed.

I think the official viewer has some bad problems.. everything kept going in and out of blurry in that viewer and I was only in high setting..

I'm ran through the start area with things already rezzed before I got to them and  now back in the store where they have freebies and 1L items..

I'm gonna see what it takes to make a decent looking avatar for new users.. I've already found a free bento bom mesh head and 3 versions of this certain  bento bom mesh body which gives you Busty, perky and flat versions.

I have to say, all that trying to rezz things and them going in and out of blur was really getting to me and really made me frustrating..

I'm gonna try to come at this from a more positive attitude.. It just frustrated me so much, but maybe it's because I came here for other reasons like seeing what is right or wrong with the experience instead of rather, just living the experience with a bit more patience..

I'm still concerned about a few things like the whole having access to new users before they cross over and the viewer stability.. But maybe being on a better viewer I can live the experience a little better now..

I'm gonna build this avatar with what's here and post up what I came up with..😉

Edited August 15, 2022 by Ceka Cianci

[Seicher Rae]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

OH OH!

I like this idea!

I'm going to start a new thread listing people whom we should tag with targets on their backs!

No need to reinvent the wheel there, Scylla. I've a handy excel worksheet all ready for you. I'll send it to you PM.

[animats]

2 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

That assumes, of course, that newcomers to SL are "transitioning" from a game somewhere. 

Unlike in the early days of SL, most new users today have experience with a 3D MMO-type environment. Looking at data from 2010 is probably not helpful any more.

[Lindal Kidd]

3 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

We can't do that, to see an object it must be placed in world somehow and rendered.

But we can! It could be as simple as every creator taking a picture of their item, and uploading it with the item. That picture would then become a part of the item's properties, and could be displayed directly by the inventory, by hovering over the item or clicking it.

For things an individual creates, including a picture of the thing could be a part of the object Edit window.

This capability already exists, after a fashion, in the Outfits folder. When saving an Outfit, one can include a picture of it, which will then be displayed in the outfit gallery.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Lindal Kidd said:

This capability already exists, after a fashion, in the Outfits folder. When saving an Outfit, one can include a picture of it, which will then be displayed in the outfit gallery.

Wait, what????

[Lindal Kidd]

Click the left arrow at the upper left of the Edit Outfit window, if you see it. That takes you here:

https://gyazo.com/fafd2033ff2c43b02e863dd9dbcaf3a5

Then click the leftmost tab, Outfit Gallery, and you will see:

https://gyazo.com/432243e20c91fded9463e3e3dce99bb6

You'll notice in that image that a whole lot of my Outfits show the same picture. If I had been more conscientious, I would have taken a snapshot of myself, then dragged it and dropped it on the tile for that Outfit.

[Sid Nagy]

17 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Wait, what????

In the original LL viewer, it works that way.
I have no clue what other viewers have to offer.