Forum Changes -> Web User Group on August 3, 2022

[Seicher Rae]

1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Exactly this, Seicher.

I couldn't be bothered to read your whole TL:DR post, but I saw this and wanted to say "Exactly!" to your entire post based on the obvious and incredible insight you have on the topic as witnessed by this exceptional, excerpted quote. If there was a higher emoticon than a "thank you" for the post, I would have awarded it to you based on your acknowledgement.

[Seicher Rae]

When I asked, SL staff told me 'not to worry' about the TOS notices for things like off topic. However, if this is the case, they need to be telling people this, up front. Historically SL/LL has been horrible about communicating, and this seems like another instance.

In another thread, yet another oldbie poster said he'd gotten 5 off topic slaps just today, and the implication from his post was that ****-it, he wasn't going to risk getting banned. I think MANY of us share that same concern, especially people who have been around for a while. I share that concern, even though I was told "don't worry" and that it was just pro forma notices for pulling a post.  Several people are voicing overtly or sideways about "not worth getting banned" for a flurry of off-topics and the like.

Why there remains a "cone of silence" on what, exactly, is going on is beyond me. Geez, talk to US, as a group, not just in a meeting, but in the Forums where we all can see and ask questions if need be!

Maybe we all should be worried! Maybe not! Who the heck knows???

[Madelaine McMasters]

46 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

I couldn't be bothered to read your whole TL:DR post…

…sets you on fire

[Madelaine McMasters]

Ha, an errant post that wasn't my fault. The forum locked up when I posted from my phone, so I moved to my Mac. When I restarted my phone, it posted again.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Madelaine McMasters

[Codex Alpha]

Anytime I've been 'pinged', I know exactly why. Sometimes it's my fault, sometimes I react to someone pushing buttons, or posting controversial responses myself that are hot buttons, and the moderators don't want the discussion to get worse after that.

It's okay to say "Yeah my bad, shouldn't have posted that" or "Thanks, that post got taken the wrong way and it all went to hell after" or "Yeah I went over the line, thanks for the heads up".

People 'not knowing' what they did, come on. People know when they push the line, or skirt so near the rules that others pick up on it too, especially if it's in a string of posts with the same intent.

Usually if one sticks to debating the argument/position someone made, and refrain from personal attacks, or casting aspersions as to their intent, their thoughts, w/e you can have some spirited discussions that everyone can learn from.

However if people want to 'win' and not understand the other side, there are more chances of everyone involved to get more militant or lose their temper. When dog piling occurs, the fight can get pretty real and the drama intensifies.

Hence best to remove hot topics from the forums, that should be dedicated to Second Life themes anyway. Plenty of websites, forums and social media to wage a social or political war already - which in the end is a waste of time as both sides eventually create their own bubbles (eg Gab and Twitter) and the minority opinion on both sides get cancelled (which defeats the purpose of trying come to solutions).

In general, it is safest to respond to what the OP posted, and perhaps come back later and add new thoughts as others offer theirs, and it's not hard to stay on topic.

I've also ran and been a member of many forums over the years, and going off-topic can become quite an issue if not moderated strongly. Some topics would go off topic by 3 responses in at the earliest and many times at the next page.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Codex Alpha

[Seicher Rae]

32 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Anytime I've been 'pinged', I know exactly why. 

People 'not knowing' what they did, come on. People know when they push the line, or skirt so near the rules that others pick up on it too, especially if it's in a string of posts with the same intent.

I'm sure a lot of people, like you, do know why you have gotten pinged.

However, yes, it is very possible, and pretty common to not know, or not know where the line is, and we are witnessing that now with the flurry of pings. I think this may be especially true of people who have posted in these forums for 5, 10 or more years. The lines have changed, in some cases, a lot.

If you're in a flame war, it is probably pretty easy to tell. If you are used to bantering, joking with people you've joked with for 12 years, for a few posts, in a manner that for 12 years has been "just fine" then all of the sudden you are getting posts pulled left and right? It is a mystery. 

What is true for your experience isn't true universally. It depends on the type of ping, the situation, the post, the people, and yes, their history and how things are being moderated.

ETA: Bolding your original post didn't change my understanding of it.   Nor alter my reply.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Seicher Rae

[Rowan Amore]

I agree when people post things like,  "You'll be ok" followed by a 😁 in response to someone's post, they could certainly be less dismissive of someone's opinion.  What one person thinks is a witty reply is condescending to the one they are replying to but then, maybe that's the point?  

[Scylla Rhiadra]

One maybe mildly interesting phenomenon that is likely related to the chill effect: I've noticed a surge in "scorn laugh" or "confused" emojis to my posts.

It all feels a little passive-aggressive, maybe . . . but there's a logic to it and, frankly, it doesn't much bother me.

 

Or! Or . . . maybe I'm just suddenly funnier and more confusing!!

Edited August 5, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 hour ago, Seicher Rae said:

Why there remains a "cone of silence" on what, exactly, is going on is beyond me. Geez, talk to US, as a group, not just in a meeting, but in the Forums where we all can see and ask questions if need be!

 

I'm not sure how much clearer they could have been. There is no "cone of silence"  What you have are people not wanting to accept the  new rules and wanting to push to the edge and LL won't respond. There is no reason to clarify.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Rebel scum, all of you!

The Empire knows how to deal with your kind!

[Seicher Rae]

9 hours ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

I'm not sure how much clearer they could have been. There is no "cone of silence"  What you have are people not wanting to accept the  new rules and wanting to push to the edge and LL won't respond. There is no reason to clarify.

Good for you! So you have no issue about it! Excellent. So... carry on, and so you don't need to keep carping contrarianism to the dumber folks in the room. We've been here for a long time so we're old and slow.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Seicher Rae
Just am pleased that before my coffee I came up with the nice alliteration of "keep carping contrarianism" ::: pats self on back :::

[Seicher Rae]

[Theresa Tennyson]

10 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

Usually if one sticks to debating the argument/position someone made, and refrain from personal attacks, or casting aspersions as to their intent, their thoughts, w/e you can have some spirited discussions that everyone can learn from.

However if people want to 'win' and not understand the other side, there are more chances of everyone involved to get more militant or lose their temper. When dog piling occurs, the fight can get pretty real and the drama intensifies.

 

What would "casting aspersions as to their intent" look like?

[Luna Bliss]

On 8/4/2022 at 1:45 PM, Madelaine McMasters said:

Sam captured some of my thinking, which is somewhat (maybe?) independent of my personal perspective...

I was in SL two years before discovering the forum in search of some scripting information. Had the forums been only for answering questions, I'd have been in and out and back to SL. But, I'm a forum creature by nature and there was a lot more going on here, so I got sucked in. @Scylla Rhiadra and Pep were the first to capture my attention with their rather spirited discussions. Most of my friends come from the forum. I can access the forums (and therefore my friends) anywhere, anytime. SL itself must wait 'till I'm home and ready to sit at my computer, and I can only communicate with those who're at theirs.

Luna, I've highlighted a portion of your comment in purple. I have never met most of my forum friends in-world. Still, I have met them, and that's of great value to me. SL might enrich those friendships (might also kill them ;-), but the forum enables them at a level that's often sufficient for me. What I do know is that SL itself is not sufficient for any lasting friendship. Within weeks of meeting my last partner, we were on Discord. For the last year of our relationship, we were only on Discord.

I can't re-run the experiment, but I can imagine that I'd have spent much more time in-world (generating revenue for LL) over the last dozen years if I'd not found the forums. I can also imagine that I'd have left long ago, for some place with a vibrant forum.

Though I have enjoyed the forums for over a dozen years, I do not assess their value from my perspective. I try to imagine what benefit they bring to LL, which must prosper if SL is to survive. The creation of the now moribund "Feeds" suggests that LL thinks there is value to an out-world extension of the SL social network. There is. That the Feed is moribund (the front page shows the most recent 10 posts(I think), and that spans... a week) shows that LL didn't understand what was needed. Something is needed. I don't think GD is that thing. I don't think the Feeds are that thing.

Your puzzling over my position is understandable. How could I not understand the value of something I value so highly?

Once again, my thinking is somewhat (maybe?) independent of my personal perspective. SL has great value to many people. For that reason, the survival of SL is much more important in the grand scheme of things than my relationship with it, and all of you (who mean a great deal to me).

Very interesting, Madelaine. We all value or need various modes of communication that can differ from each other. I'll have to ponder this more but in my groggy state I'm afraid tea is my main goal atm...

[Madelaine McMasters]

20 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Very interesting, Madelaine. We all value or need various modes of communication that can differ from each other. I'll have to ponder this more but in my groggy state I'm afraid tea is my main goal atm...

Call me Maddy, Luna. I can't spell Madelaine.

[Lindal Kidd]

On 8/4/2022 at 6:03 PM, Seicher Rae said:

And it totally baffles me, has always baffled me, why we can't ask, or better yet, just be told what the heck we did! If you post a bunch of little posts, all over the place, like I have been known to do once or twice, and then you get some random "we pulled it, you messed up, here's the entire list of rules" how the heck is that a learning tool to prevent you from doing it again? In that case you don't even know what post they pulled, and you have to go back and search, and if your memory is like a gnat's like mine is... you never have a clue.

I'm so happy to know I'm not the only one whose post count overflows her memory buffer. Twice lately LL has pulled a post of mine and sent me their little warning notice...and I had no idea what I'd said to incur the Wrath of Quartz. And of course, since it's gone now, it's no use going back and searching for it.

One of these days, I am going to get banned from SL and be left going, "What'd I say? What'd I say??"

[Love Zhaoying]

44 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

I'm so happy to know I'm not the only one whose post count overflows her memory buffer. Twice lately LL has pulled a post of mine and sent me their little warning notice...and I had no idea what I'd said to incur the Wrath of Quartz. And of course, since it's gone now, it's no use going back and searching for it.

One of these days, I am going to get banned from SL and be left going, "What'd I say? What'd I say??"

Yesterday I believe, Quartz or another Mole explained that sometimes our messages get removed not because of something we wrote, but because something we quoted was removed. And not to "freak out" over it, which was oddly comforting.

[Love Zhaoying]

10 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

What would "casting aspersions as to their intent" look like?

Maybe it's related to the concept of a "pretext", which really means something different than how most people use it. Just guessing. 

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Yesterday I believe, Quartz or another Mole explained that sometimes our messages get removed not because of something we wrote, but because something we quoted was removed. And not to "freak out" over it, which was oddly comforting.

I think another board software package can remove quoted text if the original poster or a Mod removes it.  I should check our amateur radio board (which uses InvisionBoard like here) and see if there is such an option.

I do remember a while back editing one of my posts to remove a quote from a now deleted (or hidden) post. The forum software allow Mods to "hide" posts which will still be visible to them and admins, but not on the open board. Found that out on the radio board when it had the option to "delete" or "hide."

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

On 8/3/2022 at 4:32 PM, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

The forum platform does have that.  An amateur radio board I'm on runs this same software and there's a function to ignore threads or users. For users it's on their profile --- although I couldn't see that option here. Threads would have the option on top --- but also here don't see that.

I did go to the meetings, and voiced (or typed) my concerns. The staff that deals with the board gave her email for us to send our shopping list of concerns. The game ended up crashing halfway when my net went kaput.

Update: This boards as it.  Instead of having a link on the pie menue --- you go to the following page and enter the name manually.  Just found that! Link: https://community.secondlife.com/ignore/

[Innula Zenovka]

47 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

Update: This boards as it.  Instead of having a link on the pie menue --- you go to the following page and enter the name manually.  Just found that! Link: https://community.secondlife.com/ignore/

You can also ignore users by floating your mouse pointer above their name in the forum, just to the left of one of their posts, and then choosing the "ignore" option on the menu that appears

[Solar Legion]

1 hour ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

Update: This boards as it.  Instead of having a link on the pie menue --- you go to the following page and enter the name manually.  Just found that! Link: https://community.secondlife.com/ignore/

Looks like Innula already posted the first bit I was going to say.

You only have to go to the Ignore User page to manually enter the name when you are using some mobile browsers. Otherwise it is as Innula describes.

[Alwin Alcott]

4 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

You can also ignore users by floating your mouse pointer above their name in the forum, ..

it's also in the menu at the righ top of the page

[belindacarson]

All I can say is a clean up and better moderation of these forums is long overdue.

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

19 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

You can also ignore users by floating your mouse pointer above their name in the forum, just to the left of one of their posts, and then choosing the "ignore" option on the menu that appears

Actually all I see is "Message" and "Find Content."  Ignore is missing.  But might be my ad-blocker.

18 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

Looks like Innula already posted the first bit I was going to say.

You only have to go to the Ignore User page to manually enter the name when you are using some mobile browsers. Otherwise it is as Innula describes.

I actually meant to post my message awhile back, but got stuck for a bit.  When reading this thread again I saw my entry on the bottom that was never sent. I blame my browser for acting weird.