flickr updates TOS...

[JeromFranzic]

Most of the changes affect how Moderate and Restricted photos are shared and posted. Hmph... looks like I'll have to upgrade to a Pro account... was sort of planning to do that soon anyway, but I'm guessing Smug Mug isn't making enough dough to deal with all of the bandwidth and storage the fun stuff takes up. (I already have a Pro account with flickr, but that's a RL account. I want to keep the two entities separate, SL and RL that is.)

More info here, I'll come back and check replies later. https://blog.flickr.net/en/2022/03/17/flickr-forever-2022/

[Cornelius Collazo]

Terribly written notice on Flickr's part... they come across as very smug (no pun intended), like they know they are the only game in town and basically f*ck you if you aren't a Pro member.

Also, would have been nice if they lowered Pro rates and/or introduced a lower priced pro-level.  But, nah, they want all the money, I guess.

The 50 pic limit on private pics on free accounts is pretty crappy too.  

I'm pro, so it doesn't affect me, other than as a viewer of pics... so yeah, it does affect me.  Not cool, Flickr.

[Maitimo]

Well that sucks, particularly as they've already priced Pro way out of my budget. But at least it answers the question of "Which photos do I delete to stay under the 1000 limit".

I don't see a date when it gets implemented, anyone know how long I've got to go through my stream?

 

[JeromFranzic]

10 minutes ago, Maitimo said:

Well that sucks, particularly as they've already priced Pro way out of my budget. But at least it answers the question of "Which photos do I delete to stay under the 1000 limit".

I don't see a date when it gets implemented, anyone know how long I've got to go through my stream?

 

I don't know when this will be implemented. And ya, badly written from SM's end for sure. I had to reread the post twice. 

I also have a free DeviantArt account I could use if the restrictions are worse later on. They don't have similar restrictions in place for people to view risque photos, but you do need to have an active, free account to view the nudes and other graphic stuff as they are required to be tagged as such.

[Cristiano Midnight]

That is going to have a huge impact on SL Flickr users - there are a lot of free accounts with moderate and restricted content on it. Only a fraction will probably move to Pro. You'll end up seeing a lot of content deleted. I get the feeling it is a move they are making in order to sell the site - I can't imagine it is anything but a headache for them at this point, and they've not done much to improve it the entire time they've owned it. 

Flickr Pro doesn't also have very much value to make it that compelling for most people. For me, I take my pics at 8k resolution and Pro does offer full resolution and unlimited storage, so I just view it as paying for storage. More casual users of Flickr though don't get much value from it. I can't imagine a lot of people will migrate to Pro just to not have their pictures held hostage.

[Rowan Amore]

My guess is they will just delete any content in basic accounts that are marked as moderate or restricted.  I'm sure there is some automated way for them to do this.  I've always had a Pro account but many of the people I follow do not.  Kind of sad.

[sandi Mexicola]

This sucks.

[Maitimo]

Well I've just deleted mine. They were all in one album so it was quick enough.

My concern is when I try to post a safe pic but their auto-bot detects it as restricted (which happens regularly) - previously it would simply flag it as restricted and I'd change it back to safe. But now, with restricted posts not being possible at all, what will happen? Will it fail to post altogether?

[JeromFranzic]

I

8 minutes ago, Maitimo said:

Well I've just deleted mine. They were all in one album so it was quick enough.

My concern is when I try to post a safe pic but their auto-bot detects it as restricted (which happens regularly) - previously it would simply flag it as restricted and I'd change it back to safe. But now, with restricted posts not being possible at all, what will happen? Will it fail to post altogether?

I had that happen to me once with a Moderate photo. It's a succubus style photo that I took in Open Sim with an alt. Nothing sexy about it aside from the succubus happening to be naked in a suggestive pose. I mean FFS she wasn't flagellating herself or slapping herself with the tail LOL... I was able to change the safety level back to Moderated a few hours after the auto-bot mistakenly changed that.

[Phoenix Desmoulins]

So, does anyone have any suggestions for Flickr alternatives? I can't justify paying $8/month just to upload a pic every 2 months.

[Miles Beck]

Flickr's price increases over the past few years have been ridiculous. The price doubled in 2019, increased to $60 USD in 2021 and increases this year to $71 + tax USD.

I assume their announcement of new restrictions for free accounts is an attempt to convert free users to pro. It would work at a lower price point, but not at their current price.

I've had a RL pro account since 2004 and an SL pro account off and on over the years. I'll never resume my pro level for SL unless they lower the price and I'm considering cancelling my RL pro subscription.

[Charalyne Blackwood]

F*ck em.

[Marigold Devin]

I used to have a Flickr Pro account and something happened in 2014 or thereabouts that I found unacceptable so I went back to a basic account. All the photos I've taken since mainly just get saved to my own vanity project, on USB flash drive/DVD storage, and occasionally inflict a pic onto the How does your avatar look today thread.

As Charlyne so eloquently put it, f*ck 'em. 

Ask yourself why you feel you need a Flickr or Flickr type account. Do you need somewhere to store the pictures, or is it the validation you need? 

 

[sandi Mexicola]

1 hour ago, Phoenix Desmoulins said:

So, does anyone have any suggestions for Flickr alternatives? I can't justify paying $8/month just to upload a pic every 2 months.

Has anyone mentioned Deviant Art yet?

[sandi Mexicola]

15 minutes ago, Marigold Devin said:

Ask yourself why you feel you need a Flickr or Flickr type account. Do you need somewhere to store the pictures, or is it the validation you need? 

It's definitely the validation!  😊

[LykanXEclipse]

5 hours ago, sandi Mexicola said:

Has anyone mentioned Deviant Art yet?

-DeviantArt it's very strict about photos/screenshots of videogames (SL falls in this category sadly in that site no exceptions).

-Artstation it's only for post your own model or artwork creations no photos,screenshots or music

-Instagram follow the same rules as facebook (PG/sfw) and the rest of their products. they tend to "hunt" flag time to time SL accounts and flagging them as fake earning a ban temp or permanent

-500px only allows IRL photography and pg

-Furaffinity it's a virtual gallery too but it's for the furry fandom it allows all 3 ratings pg(sfw), moderate and restricted (NSFW) but same as devianart it's strict about photos/screenshots of videogames (they consider sl as a game just like deviant). and as experience from there too. ppl of that site tend to have a lot of scam bots, hate sl or be really creepy with users in general

-Twitter. twitter allows anything but it's a social network never was designed as web photo gallery, even if some creators or sl community peeps use it, has flaws and sometimes if the system fails it flags/shadow ban the photos or delete them

Other idea is if LL host their own community photos dashboard like some south korean mmorpgs do (example: https://aion.plaync.com/board/image/list ) but that's a lot of work to set up, make sure each photo that is uploaded uses the correct classification rating sfw, moderate, nsfw and follows the sl tos 

Edited March 18, 2022 by LykanXEclipse

[sandi Mexicola]

@LykanXEclipse - thanks for that info.

[Aiyumei]

Typical business decision in attempt to gain more revenue by forcing free users to start paying... Unfortunately this will affect not only the SL community but every free account on Flickr. Hundreds of thousands of affected users with potentially thousands of users that will leave Flickr because of that change. I see more to lose than to gain from that decision, but we'll see in the following months... Although I may switch and finally try out pro, the moment good alternative shows on the horizon, I'm out.

[Robberinthemuseum]

8 hours ago, Marigold Devin said:

I used to have a Flickr Pro account and something happened in 2014 or thereabouts that I found unacceptable so I went back to a basic account. All the photos I've taken since mainly just get saved to my own vanity project, on USB flash drive/DVD storage, and occasionally inflict a pic onto the How does your avatar look today thread.

As Charlyne so eloquently put it, f*ck 'em. 

Ask yourself why you feel you need a Flickr or Flickr type account. Do you need somewhere to store the pictures, or is it the validation you need? 

 

I like perving and also the validation 😄

[DalNiente]

These new terms of service create a lot of unique problems for the flicker community

 

For the people without “Pro” accounts it essentially fractures the entire community. “Where do we upload now” is the common question being asked. Pixiv – DeviantArt – Twitter. While there are alternatives not every former flicker member will flock to a single option and not everyone will be willing to learn a new platform. Not to mention Flicker is it’s own animal when understanding trends and how to gain a following. This will cut creators visibility in half, assuming they are using other alternative forms of social media.

 

With less visibility those struggling to gain any sort of audience or build a community will have to work two or three times as hard. It might cause some to drop the hobby all together. It’s common to say Flicker is a clout machine but it was an excellent way to share a story, advertise fashion and events, or see parts of second life you normally wouldn’t be exposed to. Can’t you do that just posting “safe” photos? Sure but rules can be subjective, just like clothing.

 

Speaking of clothing and events I assume there are designers who lean on flicker more rather than facebook or twitter. Perhaps it’s easier for them to show off something more risque. Well perhaps said outfit goes against the Flicker TOS. That designer suddenly has to scramble for a new means of advertising or they fade into obscurity. This is just conjecture based on my part but both second life and flicker are tied at the hip.

 

Last thing to consider is people upgrading their accounts for the sake of keeping their content. I’m in no way belittling those that chose that path but how many of your followers are normal users? I wonder how many will stick around, myself included. Will I still have an audience when people find greener pastures? This is my first post here but I want to stress the importance of community here. Flicker gave us an outlet to explore more than we knew no matter what the topic, human avatars, furry avatars, trains, planes, entire sims were all under one roof together. Now people will sink back into other communities, groups will seem like cliques, things we sometimes loath in second life. It’s a real shame.

 

Thank you for reading my depressing TED talk.

Edited March 18, 2022 by DalNiente
spelling error

[Maitimo]

7 hours ago, LykanXEclipse said:

Other idea is if LL host their own community photos dashboard like some south korean mmorpgs do (example: https://aion.plaync.com/board/image/list ) but that's a lot of work to set up, make sure each photo that is uploaded uses the correct classification rating sfw, moderate, nsfw and follows the sl tos 

If LL hosted their own, you can bet 100% that it would be SFW only.

To add another one - Snapzilla, but that too is also SFW only.

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Maitimo

[Setsuki Takeda]

Something else to note about DeviantArt...

 

They are absolute morons on how they handle "acceptable" email providers.

 

Don't use a corporate owned privacy invading ad-spewing spam magnet "free" service?

 

Oops, too bad, we don't support this provider. Try another.

 

Umm... No, thanks. I'm not making a GMail account just to sign up with *your* service.

[ValKalAstra]

Reading the announcement this morning left me scratching my head but I wasn't all that surprised by it. It's the typical pattern of free services on the internet.

• Phase 1: We're the next hip startup! Everything goes, please sign up with us, we're not like all the others.
• Phase 2: Rapid growth, stocks are vastly overvalued. Begin attempts to monetize the service.
• Phase 3: More aggressive attempts to monetize the service. Advertisers don't like adult content, neither do MasterCard and Visa.
• Phase 4: "Clean up" the service to appeal to investors/advertisers. <-- We are here
• Phase 5: Sell the service at a profit.

The verbiage of the e-mail was incredibly tone-deaf and read like a cynical corporate attempt to rephrase something bad as "inclusive" and "safe" in a way that really doesn't make any bloody sense. In the wake of the announcement, I've gone and deleted the two "offending" pictures that I knew would tick off advertisers. During the process of which I've found out that one more of my pictures had been flagged as unsafe. It depicted a woman with her back to the camera, wearing a shoulder-free long dress. That felt rather puritanical to me but who am I to argue.

So what could this mean for SL - hard to say? It will unsight a vast amount of images in one fell-swoop. From there it's anyone's guess what may happen. My guess is that free users will likely leave, which in turn reduces the value for pro users as there is less social media stuff going on as a result of less users participating.

[MrsSeren]

I'm non pro, spent about 20-30 minutes saving to my computer and removing from Flickr my NSFW shots and thankfully the bulk of my blog photos and small minority with my friends are SFW but still going to use Flickr; just will find another medium for my NSFW work.

[Brooke51]

well, it looks like most of what can be said has been said. i've been pro for years and this is yet another betrayal by the platform of my years of loyal patronage. i'd love to leave flickr, but i see no good alternative at this time.

these changes are going to decimate my audience, many of whom are free users. the ones left will be the bloggers and the pro creators of art, who will also suffer from the general loss of traffic. 

13 hours ago, Marigold Devin said:

Ask yourself why you feel you need a Flickr or Flickr type account. Do you need somewhere to store the pictures, or is it the validation you need? 

 

well, i'm not storing pictures. i have hard drives for that, LOL. (i guess i do count on flickr for storage to a point, actually, but it's secondary purpose).

i use flickr as a means of creative expression. the fact i want others to experience my creative expression and enjoy it (and hopefully, yes, like it) i guess means i'm in it for the "validation." the need for validation can easily become unbalanced and negative, its true (it sounds like that's what you mean). i've worked (not always successfully) to keep a healthier balance from my earliest flickr days, when i wrote as the first lines of my profile:

"the paradox of flickr: if you're making photos for faves and views, you're missing the point of the art. but if nobody sees and appreciates your artistry, what is the point of posting it at all?"

no, i don't post photos on flickr simply so **** i **** can go and look at them whenever i want to. it's supposed to be a community, and it has been, at least for me. until now. we'll see how this goes, but i'd imagine roughly a 50% drop in views as people leave.