Old coder - well ok

[sirhc DeSantis]

gosh

Well now here is a thing. About privacy
LlGetObjectDetails
a standard thingy script
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetObjectDetails
has a new
OBJECT_ACCOUNT_LEVEL that returns If You Are - or not - premium

[Scylla Rhiadra]

36 minutes ago, sirhc DeSantis said:

gosh

Well now here is a thing. About privacy
LlGetObjectDetails
a standard thingy script
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetObjectDetails
has a new
OBJECT_ACCOUNT_LEVEL that returns If You Are - or not - premium

That IS interesting. And this is new to LSL?

[Silent Mistwalker]

The page was lasted edited on June 1, 2021.

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

I guess that's sort of new. I wonder if it's being used? And for what?

[Sid Nagy]

Could it be that it is used to determine if one gets access to the special premium sims like the sandboxes?

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 minute ago, Sid Nagy said:

Could it be that it is used to determine if one gets access to the special premium sims like the sandboxes?

Bingo.

[Madelaine McMasters]

https://modemworld.me/2022/02/15/2022-sug-meetings-week-7-summary/

The following summary notes were taken from the Tuesday, February 15th, 2022 Simulator User Group (SUG) meeting. It forms a summary of the items discussed, and a video of the entire meeting is embedded at the end of the article – my thanks to Pantera for recording it.

Server Deployments

• There was no deployment to the SLS Main channel on Tuesday, February 15th, 2022, but the simhosts were restarted.
• Wednesday, February 16th should see the RC channels updated with simulator release 568051, postponed from week #6, and which includes a series of bug fixes (including one for BUG-230771 “llRequestUsername returns invalid data when invalid key is provided”) and adds a feature to LSL: OBJECT_ACCOUNT_LEVEL flag to llGetObjectDetails(): when called on an agent in the region, returns the agent’s premium status.

[bigmoe Whitfield]

going to be one of those guys here, but I hope,  it's not possible to script items and lock out none premium from them using this feature.

[KT Kingsley]

I don't think LL use LSL scripts to run SL's land access functions, like ensuring only premium members have access to the premium sandboxes. I'm pretty sure basic residents can't even TP into premium-only regions, which they'd have to do to become visible to a script using this function to enforce the exclusivity.

It could be used by landowners to limit access to their land to premium members only or, more entertainingly, to exclude premium members from their land, or by snobs and inverse snobs to decide with whom they wish to interact.

I can't, offhand, think of any useful use cases for this functionality, though.

Edited March 5, 2022 by KT Kingsley

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Interesting interesting interesting . . .

[Scylla Rhiadra]

27 minutes ago, KT Kingsley said:

I don't think LL use LSL scripts to run SL's land access functions, like ensuring only premium members have access to the premium sandboxes. I'm pretty sure basic residents can't even TP into premium-only regions, which they'd have to do to become visible to a script using this function to enforce the exclusivity.

It could be used by landowners to limit access to their land to premium members only or, more entertainingly, to exclude premium members from their land, or by snobs and inverse snobs to decide with whom they wish to interact.

I can't, offhand, think of any useful use cases for this functionality, though.

Well, that's it, isn't it? Who requested this? Who thought it was a good idea to put that kind of functionality in the hands of landowners? Is this something they've been clamoring for? An extra level of protection against griefers, perhaps?

And/or is LL quietly hoping that user-created restrictions on non-premium users will encourage residents to go Premium?

I am becoming paranoid in my old age. On the other hand, class war is really the one thing SL has been missing.

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

class war is really the one thing SL has been missing.

Not really. Lots of premiums still treat those who are basic like second class citizens. Same as LL does. But let's not go there.

[Marigold Devin]

7 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, that's it, isn't it? Who requested this? Who thought it was a good idea to put that kind of functionality in the hands of landowners? Is this something they've been clamoring for? An extra level of protection against griefers, perhaps?

And/or is LL quietly hoping that user-created restrictions on non-premium users will encourage residents to go Premium?

I am becoming paranoid in my old age. On the other hand, class war is really the one thing SL has been missing.

Oh I think the class war or something akin to it has been prevalent in Second Life for quite a while, and that divide is getting bigger.

This script thingy though, I haven't fully grasped. I knew already that access to premium sandboxes was denied to the likes of me, which is fine because I personally can use the beta testing sandboxes, and landowners were already able to restrict access to their places so I don't know what would be different with this particular script. 

I'm going to sleep on it. Maybe a naked Indian will visit me in my dreams and tell me.

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Marigold Devin
still getting fished in ... am I just living my life to the script of Wayne's World?

[Istelathis]

I could see where it could be useful, such as for games that you may earn linden with.  A lot of people that host such events grow frustrated because they are not only doing it to boost their pop, some people do it to gather a crowd for events.  This would be a good tool to fend off those bots, previous to this people who had an account less than a year old would sometimes be kicked out of the land.  I used to have fun hosting events for fishing, specifically around holidays and I would notice the bots although it didn't really bother me, at the time I figured if they are that desperate for money I wouldn't get in their way. 

I would think for most situations that just blatantly kick non premium members is doing a disservice to themselves, that is a sure way to decrease traffic and lose potential customers or just friendly chat at social gatherings.  

Edit:
But of course it would be bad for people who just want to earn linden, because they can't afford to buy it in SL.. so ultimately they would suffer.  

Edited March 5, 2022 by Istelathis

[Lucia Nightfire]

To be fair, being able to determine if someone is Premium or not has been possible for years now. I, personally, know of at least 6 different ways to do so.

It is my opinion that LL wanted to offer an official means, not only to deter reliance on obscure means(hacks), but to also give businesses a means of offering Premium users additional perks of their own in hopes to garner more Premium account purchases.

It is my opinion that in the coming months LL might also start offering in-world perks in relation to whether or not a user is using a Premium or Premium Plus account.

1 hour ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

going to be one of those guys here, but I hope,  it's not possible to script items and lock out none premium from them using this feature.

 

52 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, that's it, isn't it? Who requested this? Who thought it was a good idea to put that kind of functionality in the hands of landowners? Is this something they've been clamoring for? An extra level of protection against griefers, perhaps?

And/or is LL quietly hoping that user-created restrictions on non-premium users will encourage residents to go Premium?

I am becoming paranoid in my old age. On the other hand, class war is really the one thing SL has been missing.

This is not the first time these fears have been cited when people learn that their account type is easily detectable/determined.

Aside from LL's own Premium sandboxes, does anyone actually know if/where land owners or businesses are actively blocking access to a region or a service strictly on the grounds that the user is a Basic account holder?

I, personally, have yet to see any witch hunt against Basic accounts.

I think the adult, PIOF, group region/parcel restrictions are good enough to deter most griefer occurrences.

Including Basic accounts in any anti-griefer protocol would only hurt a user's business.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Lucia Nightfire

[Scylla Rhiadra]

40 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

It is my opinion that LL wanted to offer an official means, not only to deter reliance on obscure means(hacks), but to also give businesses a means of offering Premium users additional perks of their own in hopes to garner more Premium account purchases.

Yes, this is exactly what I was getting at. If LL starts restricting access to things to Premium or Premium Plus, there will be howls of outrage from Basic account holders. But if resident landowners, club owners, etc., start doing it, that outrage gets deflected, while LL merely profits from those who decide they now need to upgrade.

40 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Aside from LL's own Premium sandboxes, does anyone actually know if/where land owners or businesses are actively blocking access to a region or a service strictly on the grounds that the user is a Basic account holder?

I, personally, have yet to see any witch hunt against Basic accounts.

No, neither have I. I am PIOF, but not Premium, and I have never been restricted from entering a venue on account of my status.

40 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Including Basic accounts in any anti-griefer protocol would only hurt a user's business.

Yes, agreed. Whatever might be gained by reducing the incidence of griefers would be more than lost by reduced traffic.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Paul Hexem]

7 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Yes, this is exactly what I was getting at. If LL starts restricting access to things to Premium or Premium Plus, there will be howls of outrage from Basic account holders. But if resident landowners, club owners, etc., start doing it, that outrage gets deflected, while LL merely profits from those who decide they now need to upgrade.

No, neither have I. I am PIOF, but not Premium, and I have never been restricted from entering a venue on account of my status.

Yes, agreed. Whatever might be gained by reducing the incidence of griefers would be more than lost by reduced traffic.

LL already offers premium perks that basics can't access, like sandboxes.

I can definitely see this feature being used by landowners after premium plus becomes a thing, depending on what's included.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Paul Hexem said:

LL already offers premium perks that basics can't access, like sandboxes.

True, but those are extras, not restrictions on things that Basic used to have access to.

Remember what happened when LL tried to cut the number of group slots for Basic accounts?

[Paul Hexem]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Remember what happened when LL tried to cut the number of group slots for Basic accounts?

To be honest, not really.

People almost had to be selective and use groups for their intended purpose? That wouldn't be a bad thing.

Overall, I don't think functions like this are a bad thing. We can already tell a lot about users by script, we don't have all that much privacy in SL.

And if someone uses it to ban you from their land arbitrarily, you're probably better off not going there anyway.

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Paul Hexem said:

To be honest, not really.

People almost had to be selective and use groups for their intended purpose? That wouldn't be a bad thing.

Overall, I don't think functions like this are a bad thing. We can already tell a lot about users by script, we don't have all that much privacy in SL.

Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. While I see the financial argument, from LL's perspective, for widening the gap between the affordances and perks available to Basic and Premium accounts, I think it could potentially do real social harm by literally creating a class system in-world which is still, mostly, without that rather ugly and destructive articulation of "civilization."

4 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

And if someone uses it to ban you from their land arbitrarily, you're probably better off not going there anyway.

That much is probably true.

[ChinRey]

2 hours ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

going to be one of those guys here, but I hope,  it's not possible to script items and lock out none premium from them using this feature.

If it isn't, I see no reason why they added it at all.

[Silent Mistwalker]

50 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

No, neither have I. I am PIOF, but not Premium, and I have never been restricted from entering a venue on account of my status.

Same here but I can't access any of the Premium sandboxes. I have tried once or twice not realizing they were restricted to premium only. I was not a happy camper when I learned the reason why. They keep shrinking basic accounts (or trying to) to give more to premiums without actually giving more to the grid as a whole. Not cool, dudes.

[Prokofy Neva]

4 hours ago, sirhc DeSantis said:

gosh

Well now here is a thing. About privacy
LlGetObjectDetails
a standard thingy script
https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetObjectDetails
has a new
OBJECT_ACCOUNT_LEVEL that returns If You Are - or not - premium

Could it be related to this new Premium Plus account they are anticipating, where each time you enter a sim, it will have to ask whether you are or are not premium, and if so, premium plus, which as I wondered about, going against the server's 0/1 religion (multiple things).

But you wouldn't even need this for a class war, which already exists, because "Payment Information on File" or "No Payment on File" or "Payment Used" are all statuses visible on the account already to the naked eye without looking inside a script. And you can even check land to block "no payment information on file" although I find that ridiculous, as you only lose customers and it really doesn't combat griefing.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

10 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

But you wouldn't even need this for a class war, which already exists, because "Payment Information on File" or "No Payment on File" or "Payment Used" are all statuses visible on the account already to the naked eye without looking inside a script.

How often does the absence of PIOF or Used actually result in a restriction? Not very often, surely?

Whatever angst there may be in-world about PIOF is nothing compared to the conflagration that would erupt if Basic accounts begin to face serious constraints. We'll be re-enacting the storming of the Winter Palace at Governor Linden's mansion.

14 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I find that ridiculous, as you only lose customers and it really doesn't combat griefing.

Yes. Which is why I am hopeful that this won't mean much, in the final analysis.

[Mollymews]

it could be something the LDPW requested.  For inworld Premium gift givers/games/experiences and such. Like touch to get a ride ticket. If premium get two tickets, etc etc

the return values are either 0 Basic or 1 Premium. So it appears that Premium Plus has not been considered for inclusion at this time, which doesn't mean that 2 Premium Plus might not eventuate one day (dunno tho exactly)