Sukubia Scarmon Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said: I definitely agree with you here, but for me, it is not about changing people's minds so much as accepting that it is okay to have a differing opinion and if we disagree. I actually enjoy a spirited debate. That's actually a bit more what I meant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayke Newall Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, Doc Carling said: And you are saying something like, "Hey stop, it was his person who supported the Nazis. The influence of his media imperium wasn't noteworthy. " That is your interpretation. I have a different one. And you are entitled to believe that just like I am entitled to say that I don't believe 3% being influential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Brown Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Vivienne Schell said: 2/3rd of republican voters still believe that the elections were rigged. So please tell me: Do you really want to be united with stupidity? Or, in worst case, united with a fascist mob? Appeasement never was a good idea while facing extremism. Cure stupidity, before you start to "unite". So what should be done with all these "stupid people?" Come on, tell us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwar Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 Just now, Sukubia Scarmon said: I think the problem is that at some point, people started to only see in binary. Very much this. Some people suggest that it's in large part due to the social media algorithms that does its damnedest to show us what we want to see; if you follow politicians, celebrities or political commentators who all lean to one end, the algorithm is going to keep suggesting such content for you. Also with certain platforms banning certain schools of ideology, people who are politically active appear to be divided not only by ideals, but platforms, where they seldom have to actually face any opposition, and there's no room for rational, restrained reasoning where both sides of any given subject can be explored. 1 minute ago, foneco Zuzu said: Ps. Did you ever shook hands with fraga irribarne? I'm genuinely curious. Did you expect that to impress me in any capacity, or are you aware how utterly pathetic your rhetoric is? 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Sukubia Scarmon said: I certainly hope there's NO place in the distant future where everyone has the same opinion and same ideals and stuff. O_o What I hope for is a future where different opinions get accepted and respected. I do not wish or intent to let a truck driver over me. I'd simply step aside. Hehe, Ghandi would have been lost with supporters like you. 😄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 28 minutes ago, Talon Brown said: So I take it you didn't see the mob attacking the White House a few months back doing the same things. The media assured us those were "peaceful protesters" while this mob are "domestic terrorists." Who gets called what depends on which side you prefer, that was my point. No, who gets called what is dependent on whether a group is protesting against being murdered by the police to a greater degree than whites due to the color of their skin, or whether they are a mob trying to take over government due to belief in conspiracy theories and attempting to enforce their belief that 'might makes right', circumventing the democratic process. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foneco Zuzu Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: 2/3rd of republican voters still believe that the elections were rigged. So please tell me: Do you really want to be united with stupidity? Or, in worst case, united with a fascist mob? Appeasement never was a good idea while facing extremism. Cure stupidity, before you start to "unite". Sadly i fear that next weeks will prove your words to be so true. And they can not even argument they where not warned in advance! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaser Zaks Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 6 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Gotta disagree with you in general, but agree with respect to SL. By "disagree with you in general", I think this entire "deplatforming" development is awesome! What, you want fascists to have free speech? Well, yes. Despite me having opposing views, if we limit who has the right to free speech, it becomes a slippery slope to censorship. Don't get me wrong, (actual) fascistic views are horrible, and I've outright left several areas because of it. But if I was to say they had no rights to those views, it would go against my own views of anti-censorship, as well as bring with the risk of becoming like the CCP where if you have anything bad to say about the CCP, they persecute you. Censorship is a very, very dangerous thing. 3 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: 2/3rd of republican voters still believe that the elections were rigged. So please tell me: Do you really want to be united with stupidity? Or, in worst case, united with a fascist mob? Appeasement never was a good idea while facing extremism. Cure stupidity, before you start to "unite". I'm not even going to bother writing a reply to this, I can see that you don't want unity, only division. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Brown Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said: No, who gets called what is dependent on whether a group is protesting against being murdered by the police to a greater degree than whites due to the color of their skin, or whether they are a mob trying to take over government due to belief in conspiracy theories and attempting to enforce their belief that 'might makes right', circumventing the democratic process. Spin it however you like, there were multiple violent riots over the past year where the media refused to call them anything but "mostly peaceful protesters" and then there was one riot by conservatives and suddenly they're "domestic terrorists." Just them though. Not anyone else. There's no ulterior motive involved though. Don't be silly. We're just shutting down all the possible platforms those "domestic terrorists" could be using except the primary one they actually used which is Facebook. Don't be concerned about that though. Facebook is your ally. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Chaser Zaks said: I'm not even going to bother writing a reply to this, I can see that you don't want unity, only division. You just did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foneco Zuzu Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, Orwar said: Very much this. Some people suggest that it's in large part due to the social media algorithms that does its damnedest to show us what we want to see; if you follow politicians, celebrities or political commentators who all lean to one end, the algorithm is going to keep suggesting such content for you. Also with certain platforms banning certain schools of ideology, people who are politically active appear to be divided not only by ideals, but platforms, where they seldom have to actually face any opposition, and there's no room for rational, restrained reasoning where both sides of any given subject can be explored. I'm genuinely curious. Did you expect that to impress me in any capacity, or are you aware how utterly pathetic your rhetoric is? I prefer to be pathetic in the defense of the values i do believe, the Portuguese constitution then to be a enlightened defense of any Autocratic regime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Chaser Zaks said: But if I was to say they had no rights to those views, it would go against my own views of anti-censorship, as well as bring with the risk of becoming like the CCP where if you have anything bad to say about the CCP, they persecute you. Censorship is a very, very dangerous thing. What do you think about recent events (last 1-2 years) where extreme-Right / fascists want to hold "rallies" at public colleges and universities? Don't you agree that the institution should have the ability to deny permission for such speech / rallies on their PUBLICLY funded campuses? I want to "punch a nazi" as much as the next guy, but frankly it is silly to let them preach to us in the first place, to stir up their hate, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 The FBI is currently warning of upcoming attacks in almost all capitols in the US. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayke Newall Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: circumventing the democratic process. Democrats claim Republicans are circumventing the democratic process buy storming congress to stop what republicans believe the Democrats are doing by circumventing the democratic process with illegal votes. Whilst the later may or may not be true, the problem is each side is blaming the other for the same thing, refusing to accept each others view (or simply agree to disagree which now is just all tossing more fuel on the fire and causing the non democratic countries to wonder why they should become one. 2 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: You just did. Where is the eyeroll reaction when you need it. 🙄 Edited January 12, 2021 by Drayke Newall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Talon Brown said: there was one riot by conservatives and suddenly they're "domestic terrorists." J The thugs storming the capitol were not conservatives. They were domestic terrorists. And that´s it. And absolutely nothing you ever write here can spin that. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Carling Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said: And you are entitled to believe that just like I am entitled to say that I don't believe 3% being influential That's just a number you found somewhere. Perhaps you should read the German version of the Wiki article I posted above. It says Hugenbergs Media Imperium controlled half of the German Press. And that's also the meaning of all serious German historians. Mit seinem Hugenberg-Konzern, einem Medienkonzern, der die Hälfte der deutschen Presse kontrollierte, trug er mit nationalistischer und antisemitischer Propaganda maßgeblich zum Aufstieg der rechten bzw. rechtsextremistischen Parteien in der Weimarer Republik bei. Edited January 12, 2021 by Doc Carling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaser Zaks Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Vivienne Schell said: You just did. I meant a reply that conveyed a meaningful response. 1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said: What do you think about recent events (last 1-2 years) where extreme-Right / fascists want to hold "rallies" at public colleges and universities? Don't you agree that the institution should have the ability to deny permission for such speech / rallies on their PUBLICLY funded campuses? I want to "punch a nazi" as much as the next guy, but frankly it is silly to let them preach to us in the first place, to stir up their hate, etc. See my first reply where I say "fascist" is a dog whistle. I've seen anti-white/straight/etc stuff pushed into publicly funded campuses and schools, but that isn't of a concern to you, is it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Brown Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Vivienne Schell said: The thugs storming the capitol were not conservatives. They were domestic terrorists. And that´s it. And absolutely nothing you ever write here can spin that. The thugs storming the White House were not liberals. They were domestic terrorists. And that´s it. And absolutely nothing you ever write here can spin that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foneco Zuzu Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) Saying that Democrats are as guilty as Republicans for the danger that is real, to American Democracy existence, that is priceless. Edited January 12, 2021 by foneco Zuzu 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukubia Scarmon Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Orwar said: Very much this. Some people suggest that it's in large part due to the social media algorithms that does its damnedest to show us what we want to see; if you follow politicians, celebrities or political commentators who all lean to one end, the algorithm is going to keep suggesting such content for you. Also with certain platforms banning certain schools of ideology, people who are politically active appear to be divided not only by ideals, but platforms, where they seldom have to actually face any opposition, and there's no room for rational, restrained reasoning where both sides of any given subject can be explored. I agree with some people in that case. Being challenged with opposing opinions is important for personal growth. Being in an echo-chamber isn't helping me making informed decisions at all, it helps making me think my opinion is the only opinion. And it's super hard to break out of those, I don't use social media as much, almost none at all, but I still struggle with it sometimes. Mainly because so many things use algorythms to figure out what to show me, in order to make me buy into something, usually. 2 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: Hehe, Ghandi would have been lost with supporters like you. 😄 Who said I'd have supported Ghandi in the first place? Bold of you to assume I'd chose a side when I'm arguiung about more than binary choices. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Chaser Zaks said: I've seen anti-white/straight/etc stuff pushed into publicly funded campuses and schools, but that isn't of a concern to you, is it? Of course it is. I am neither white, nor am I straight, or etc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, Talon Brown said: 7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: No, who gets called what is dependent on whether a group is protesting against being murdered by the police to a greater degree than whites due to the color of their skin, or whether they are a mob trying to take over government due to belief in conspiracy theories and attempting to enforce their belief that 'might makes right', circumventing the democratic process. Spin it however you like, there were multiple violent riots over the past year where the media refused to call them anything but "mostly peaceful protesters" and then there was one riot by conservatives and suddenly they're "domestic terrorists." Just them though. Not anyone else. There's no ulterior motive involved though. Don't be silly. We're just shutting down all the possible platforms those "domestic terrorists" could be using except the primary one they actually used which is Facebook. Don't be concerned about that though. Facebook is your ally. The BLM protests were mostly peaceful, yes. But you're saying "one riot by conservatives" --I don't really consider these insurrectionists (white supremacists, QAnon crazies, those who don't believe in democracy) conservatives. Something horrible has happened to the conservative party in the US -- it's not what it used to be -- these Trumpists have split the party. I'll be glad when we get the true conservatives back, debating policy issues over taxes and how much power/control government should have for a healthy society. These true conservatives respect democracy and law and order. Many of the true conservatives left the party and formed an organization named The Lincoln Project. Here's one of the founders: http://www.therickwilson.com/ 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, Chaser Zaks said: I meant a reply that conveyed a meaningful response. See my first reply where I say "fascist" is a dog whistle. I've seen anti-white/straight/etc stuff pushed into publicly funded campuses and schools, but that isn't of a concern to you, is it? Example: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/07/milo-yiannopoulos-and-the-gay-fascist-sophisticate.html Dog whistle? I think not, this guy was in the mainstream media a LOT for his views. And that media labeled him as "fascist". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 9 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said: 15 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: circumventing the democratic process. Democrats claim Republicans are circumventing the democratic process buy storming congress to stop what republicans believe the Democrats are doing by circumventing the democratic process with illegal votes. Whilst the later may or may not be true, the problem is each side is blaming the other for the same thing, refusing to accept each others view (or simply agree to disagree which now is just all tossing more fuel on the fire and causing the non democratic countries to wonder why they should become one. Drayke, I'm sorry but I just don't think you understand what has happened here in the US. I explained some of it to Talon. You can't compromise with batsh*tcrazy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 20 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: I hope it becomes spirited, as theses merely "ghostly" debates are lacking life! Okay, I suggest we all have a love sit in and remeber the glorious days of woodstock, when love and peace ruled the world while nixon bombed hanoi back into the stone age. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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