Orwar Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Alma Palmira said: Closed? Β Β Still waiting for it ... Ever so patiently ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 hour ago, foneco Zuzu said: One can not argue or try to make sense with fanatics. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: No, I don't agree that a PUBLICLY funded place can deny any group the ability to hold rallies and speak what they believe. Private institutions can, but the government is restricted by the constitution and that trickles down to publicly funded places as well. The phrase is "While I might hate what you have to say, I will defend your right to say it".Β Β Exactly my opinion. And then show up there and express disagreement - in huge numbers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 50 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said: Hitler doesn't have anything to do with the Boogaloo Bois who want a race war as well as a second American Revolution to throw the Brits out of being involved with America.Β Plus, there are several factions of the Boogaloo Bois, some do not want a race war for example but other sites will say that they are lying to entice others.Β But, it's a mess and I have a life to lead and don't want to get into long debates here.Β Β I didn't know who the Boogaloo Bois were so had to look them up. So they are clearly labelled as being alt right. Whatever they stand for is obviously too far for the mainstream right as are various other groups. Even Trump is considered to be leaning too far right as evidenced by dissenting republican congressman and senators. There is a fairly clear demarcation line of what is acceptable and what isn't on the right. That is not true for the Left. There is no clear demarcation point between what constitutes mainstream Left and alt left. The alt left tends to be the most vocal and thereby make out like all Leftists are as extreme as they are but the reality is that theyΒ aren't but to dissent is to invite the ridicule of alt lefties and be treated as a conservative. I think we have all witnessed some of that on of thisΒ Forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 16 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: Unfortunately fascism kills people. ItΒ΄s itΒ΄s nature. But SPEAKING does not.Β Β FREE SPEECH is about speaking - not actions. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Psaltery Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said: [Disclaimer]Β I am not American.Β I believe both sides are as corrupt as each other. I've been trying to find a video on YouTube of a hearing concerning the counting of votes after Republican observers and most others were told to go as counting was 'stopped for the night'.Β The counting continuedΒ until after 1 am.Β It has been deleted from YouTube and from a private message to a friend on Facebook.Β I find this a matter for concern. Β 10 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: Apparently the courts disagree with you. If you are unsure, file a case at your local court, if you are so entitled, and add one more number to the row of thrown out, baseless claims. The video included footage of the counting, with most people there clearly being shown out and 4-5 people remaining, continuing to count.Β There were cameras covering the whole room.Β Do you know anything about this? Edited January 12, 2021 by Garnet Psaltery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said: But SPEAKING does not.Β Β FREE SPEECH is about speaking - not actions. Political speeches are held for triggering political actions, generally. If they were not, politicians all over the world would be out of business. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said: Β The video included footage of the counting, with most people there clearly being shown out and 4-5 people remaining, continuing to count.Β Do you know anything about this? If it was of any significance, Mr. "Justice by combat" GuilianiΒ would have been on it. Ahem, maybe he was and some court threw it out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwar Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Vivienne Schell said: Political speeches are held for triggering political actions, generally. If they were not, politicians all over the world would be out of business. Β Β Are you under the impression that politicians actuallyΒ doΒ stuff? Β Β Personally I largely regard them as leeches who are suckling civilisation dry of its lifeblood. "An honest politician is one who, when bought, stays bought".Β 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: Political speeches are held for triggering political actions, generally. If they were not, politicians all over the world would be out of business. Political speeches are held to trigger voting a particular way.Β They are trying to influence thinking, which is really what all 'call to action' speeches are attempting -- and commercials. We cannot ban speech just because we don't want anyone else to think the same way. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Burper Tilling said: The natural assumption would be that macho ultra right-wing people would be the last to come to SL. I've seen the suggestion that people like terrorists could use SL as a secret means of communication specially if they use notecards to communicate. LL might have access to everybody's notecards.Β I don't know but the chances of any secret communications ever being found or understood would be infinitesimal. Β LL has access to all notecards, scripts, everything in SL, regardless of any permissions set. Edited January 12, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Psaltery Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: If it was of any significance, Mr. "Justice by combat" GuilianiΒ would have been on it. Ahem, maybe he was and some court threw it out? I know what I saw and I should just like to know what actually happened from someone who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: Political speeches are held to trigger voting a particular way.Β They are trying to influence thinking, which is really what all 'call to action' speeches are attempting -- and commercials. We cannot ban speech just because we don't want anyone else to think the same way. No one wants to ban speeches. But itΒ΄s illusional to think that the content of each and any speech is following a constitutional path. Also, voting or not doesnΒ΄t matter. Stalin didnΒ΄t hold speeches to enocurage people to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said: I know what I saw and I should just like to know what actually happened from someone who knows. The judge dismissing the case knew. IsnΒ΄t that enough to know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanuarySwan Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 10 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: So they are clearly labelled as being alt right.Β From what I've read, perhaps pretty much but other articles say The Boogaloo Bois and their desire for "the boogaloo" which is a second American Revolution against the British may cross many "types" as well as involve differing beliefs and may include those on the alt left.Β However, I am not an expert, of course.Β I am giving you only a brief synopsis from the viewpoint of what I have read so far which is not much.Β What is ultimate truth here...I have no idea.Β It is best just to buy what you need now and plan to stay in awhile, if possible.Β Β And, I am with Luna when she said she'd like to create today.Β Me too.Β I don't want to get into any lengthy debates or discussions as others can read articles on the internet themselves regarding things I have stated concerning The Boogaloo Bois and "the boogaloo".Β Β Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 37 minutes ago, Talligurl said: 1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said: Fascism can arise on the 'left' or the 'right', true -- both extremes are dangerous because they concentrate power in the hands of one person.Β Β The POINT is that it is the 'right' attempting to circumvent Democracy NOW and rule by force rather than rule of law.Β The right is not trying to circumvent democracy. The right believes that the left circumvented democracy by cheating in the election. I am not suggesting they are correct in this belief. I do think it is important to be aware of how they see things and what thier motivation is. I do have some sympathy for brainwashed people who believed the election was stolen from them, and many of these insurrectionists were brainwashed by the Trumpie cult. Still, I can't absolve them of all responsibility -- we all bear a degree of responsibility for our own actions. So yes, I might agree they were not trying to take over the government and circumvent democracy ONLY by virtue of taking over the Capitol on January 6th, an action they feel is justified -- but they are trying to circumvent Democracy in other ways. For example, there were a number of white supremacist groups there -- they don't believe in a democracy where all have equal power -- they believe they are superior to People Of Color and and that they have a right to dominate them, put them in their place. Likewise, did you see all the Jesus flags and signs? These are evangelicals who believe they have the right to tell others how to live -- they believe the government should be controlled by their religious beliefs. They would do away with anyone who doesn't fit their "family values" narrative. Any protections for minorities they didn't like would be erased. All people who didn't fit how they decide society should be would be relegated to second class citizens, and that includes women and LGBTQI people. Democracy is about everyone having a voice -- equality. Β That's not what these people want. They want a fascistic society where they get to decide who has rights and power -- they want a patriarchy (a stratified society where those deemed less valuable endure their place at the bottom) -- this is the opposite of Democracy. Β Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 9 minutes ago, Orwar said: Β Β Are you under the impression that politicians actuallyΒ doΒ stuff? Β Β Personally I largely regard them as leeches who are suckling civilisation dry of its lifeblood. "An honest politician is one who, when bought, stays bought".Β Well,Β and whatΒ΄s your conclusion, being so enlightened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaylinbridges Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said: I've been trying to find a video on YouTube of a hearing concerning the counting of votes after Republican observers and most others were told to go as counting was 'stopped for the night'.Β The counting continuedΒ until after 1 am.Β It has been deleted from YouTube and from a private message to a friend on Facebook.Β I find this a matter for concern. PHILIPP: An election-night surveillance video from State Farm Arena in Georgia shows election workers asked Republican poll watchers and journalists to leave, but four people remained, pulled out hidden ballot containers, and processed and counted ballots without supervision until 1 a.m. in an βillegal act of fraudβ that βmust have been organized and planned in advance.β THE FACTS: The videoΒ doesnβt show evidence of any fraud, much less an illegal act βplanned in advance.β Instead, election workers began packing up after a long night of counting, then got a call from a supervisor who instructed them to continue, according to Gabriel Sterling, a top official in the Georgia secretary of stateβs office. Georgia law 21-2-408 permits observers to stay in the room the whole time, but doesnβt require it for counting to take place. After partisan observers, reporters and several staffers left, there was a short period when observers werenβt present. However, an independent state election board monitor and a state investigator both arrived within an hour and remained at the facility until the count concluded for the night, Sterling said. The ballot boxes brought out in the surveillance video had not been hidden all day, as the video suggests. They were the same boxes that had previously been opened earlier in the night, and all the ballots in them had already been prepared in front of observers. Investigators who reviewed the entire surveillance tape confirmed it showed βnormal ballot processing,β Sterling said. From APnews.com You watched a youtube video put out by the right-wing propaganda machine - and it worked. There is more detail in the link in the article, and it's conclusion:Β The presidentβs team is βintentionally misleading the public about what happened at State Farm Arena on election night,β Sterling tweeted Friday. βThey had the whole video too and ignored the truth.β Edited January 12, 2021 by Jaylinbridges 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, foneco Zuzu said: True Democracy is when a Country has a Article 46. There is no such thing as a "true democracy". The term is <insert appropriate word here*>Β . Maybe you are thinking of a pure democracy, a form of government which is doomed to failure like all pure forms of government. People tend to think the US is a pure democracy. It isn't. It is a democratic republic.Β https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_republic Β *I know the word I want to use but I'll be damned if I can pick it out of my brain at the moment. Not redundant, although it is. Ah! Oxymoron is what I was thinking. So maybe redundant is more appropriate. I'll let the people decide. Edited January 12, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said: There is no such thing as a "true democracy". The term is <insert appropriate word here*>Β . Maybe you are thinking of a pure democracy, a form of government which is doomed to failure like all pure forms of government. People tend to think the US is a pure democracy. It isn't. It is a democratic republic.Β https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_republic Unfortunately a democratic republic always offers the option to get voted out of business. At least theoretically. Edited January 12, 2021 by Vivienne Schell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 4 hours ago, foneco Zuzu said: No im not. Americans should be grateful, for they never knew what a dictatorship is and what happens when someone is under one. PORTUGAL was under one for 48 Years. We made sure none will be able to rise again. Β You've never lived on a reservation have you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 24 minutes ago, Orwar said: Β Are you under the impression that politicians actuallyΒ doΒ stuff? Β Β Personally I largely regard them as leeches who are suckling civilisation dry of its lifeblood. Sad, but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: Sad, but true. Well, consider that these leeches made it possible for you to have something like SecondΒ Life, which certainly never would have been thinkable by leaving all that stuff up to some guys at the Vatican who insisted that the world is flat. Oh wait, it IS! Edited January 12, 2021 by Vivienne Schell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Talligurl said: The right believes that the left circumvented democracy by cheating in the election. Do they realllyyyyy believe it? I suspect it is "wishful thinking" at best, and "making it up" as default. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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