Abandoned Land, auctions and resale values

[Lloyd Overland]

Over recent days I have been bidding on a few plots up for auction and then seeing what happens next. This has prompted me to ask a couple of questions that intrigue me:

1. A 1024m plot in Nautilus - Shalim sold for L$117,030 (114.29 L$ per M²) and so my question is why, in such a high cost area, didn't the previous owner sell it rather than abandon? I assume the only other possibility is that for whatever reason the previous owner ceased to be premium and therefore no longer qualified for land ownership?

2. A 10752m plot (link and picture below) in Snout on the north east tip of Heterocera sold for L$118,312 and was divided into two plots by the winning bidder. The right became 5088m and for sale at L$9.6/m2. This has now been purchased at currently on sale L$9.6/m2.

Again I wonder why the original owner didn't sell rather than abandon, I am also fascinated how long the two plots will stay on the market and if they will go for these valuations?

Another enjoyment from the action process that can be very enjoyable!

Snout Point

Highlighted plot is currently for sale for L$300,000, the right, where the boat is for L$99,500

[Avan2Oryyn]

Really interesting. I am going with the theory that the original owner could not keep premium membership or wait for the land to sail.  I am interested to know how quickly these flip.

[AlettaMondragon]

9 hours ago, Lloyd Overland said:

1. A 1024m plot in Nautilus - Shalim sold for L$117,030 (114.29 L$ per M²) and so my question is why, in such a high cost area, didn't the previous owner sell it rather than abandon? I assume the only other possibility is that for whatever reason the previous owner ceased to be premium and therefore no longer qualified for land ownership?

2. A 10752m plot (link and picture below) in Snout on the north east tip of Heterocera sold for L$118,312 and was divided into two plots by the winning bidder. The right became 5088m and for sale at L$9.6/m2. This has now been purchased at currently on sale L$9.6/m2.

Again I wonder why the original owner didn't sell rather than abandon, I am also fascinated how long the two plots will stay on the market and if they will go for these valuations?

 

Sometimes people have to tier down quickly, so they won't be billed one extra month (after the current billing month), and they might benefit from that more than waiting for it to sell and bring back L$, or so they think. Another reason is what you suspect, that they might not be able to pay for premium and their tier anymore. It is an increasing tendency since 2020 (guess why) that landowners, both fairly new and old, fail to maintain their payment, eventually get their account on hold, and then their land reclaimed. They might have been away from SL for years already, but their payment method was active so they automatically kept their land. (It isn't uncommon in Nautilus City, or anywhere else, to be fair.) Others were active, yet who knows what happened to them that prevented them from properly ceasing their tier, or their premium at all, quite suddenly (another "guess why"). In these cases, you, I, or anyone else won't really notice what happened with the landowner (there are subtle hints, though), but eventually their account will be put on hold - they still keep their land for some time, so probably by paying their overdue bills, everything could go on as before - but if they fail to do so, LL reclaims their land, and probably by protocol, they decide to set it for auction instantly (like in Nautilus City), or they'll abandon it after reclaiming it, so that someone can put in a request for that piece of land.

 

And, yes, in the case of your second example, there's a good chance the smaller one will sell for such a rate, quite quickly. Waterfront parcels are always sought after, and that's a pretty nice sailable waterfront. The corner parcel for 53 L$/sqm? I doubt it. Parcels with such rates, unless they're direct Blake Sea access on Satori's North Coast, don't sell, no matter they're sailable waterfronts. I can see several large parcels with lower rates on said Satori North Coast too, and they seem to be for sale for a while, too. It isn't reasonable to ask for so much, unless the demand would be so high, but maybe the demand isn't as high now as a year ago. Maybe a business owner from the area could serve with more reliable info on that, though.

Edited January 8, 2021 by AlettaMondragon
I need proofreading.

[Claireschen Hesten]

9 hours ago, Lloyd Overland said:

1. A 1024m plot in Nautilus - Shalim sold for L$117,030 (114.29 L$ per M²) and so my question is why, in such a high cost area, didn't the previous owner sell it rather than abandon? I assume the only other possibility is that for whatever reason the previous owner ceased to be premium and therefore no longer qualified for land ownership?

The high cost isn't unusual for any plot in Nautilus City i believe all the plots are double prim like Horizons plus it has the benefit at it's closest point of being one or two regions away from the Blake Sea not to mention all the other sea regions around it if you're in to sailing. If the land wasn't put up for auction by the owner they probably needed shot really quick. land can often remain abandoned for years more desirable areas like in Nautilus City will get auctioned

[AlettaMondragon]

6 minutes ago, Claireschen Hesten said:

The high cost isn't unusual for any plot in Nautilus City i believe all the plots are double prim like Horizons plus it has the benefit at it's closest point of being one or two regions away from the Blake Sea not to mention all the other sea regions around it if you're in to sailing. If the land wasn't put up for auction by the owner they probably needed shot really quick. land can often remain abandoned for years more desirable areas like in Nautilus City will get auctioned

 

Indeed, all the themed areas with the double LI capacity have such high rates. It is somewhat reasonable, somewhat. Without going into that, it's a fact they go for so high, many of those parcels have multiple "protected" sides (bordered by Protected Land), some of them have all sides like that, so you don't get direct neighbors. Those are usually set for sale for absurdly high prices - excellent for wealthy misanthropes. For example if you look at Bay City, it's rare to see a 1024 sqm parcel for under 100 L$/sqm rate in the Moderate rated regions. They're usually over 100 in the General rated regions too, but it's more frequent that they're below that rate, since it's General after all, you can't have and do certain things there, *coughs* if they would care about it *coughs*, so those have a lower value. In Nautilus City, the only real disadvantage is that none of the parcels are real waterfronts (the shore is Protected Land all around), so you can't directly sail out and keep boats moored, etc. There's the double capacity multiplier, the protected sides, the infrastructure - and it proves pretty well that people like the areas with proper infrastructure much more than the middle of nowhere - though, so it is obviously a popular area, and yes, if nothing else, you can walk down to a public rez zone at the water near your parcel, or drag your boat from your parcel to the sea, and head out to the Blake.

[Gabriele Graves]

I own land in Nautilus City.  I bought there primarily for the fact it was double-prim, they are all regular 32x32sqm in size, there are clusters of four together and the regions seem to perform consistently well performance-wise.  I liked the fact that Nautilus City is an island in the Blake Sea even though there are no waterfront properties.  The reason I went for double-prim is that though the upfront cost of buying was significantly more than regular prim land, that is a one time cost and over time the savings in tier/prim over using more tier to get the same prim allowance from regular mainland, made it an attractive alternative.  The first parcel I bought was a lucky purchase that had been priced very low for a quick sale in a great location.

When Bellisseria first arrived it became much easier to get parcels in Nautilus City that were about 50%-70% lower than now and that represented a large price drop in the normal prices from when I bought my first parcel.  I bought pretty much all of my parcels during that time except the first one.  Since Covid arrived however the prices have been steadily rising back to around the prices they were back before they dropped.

So the point of all this is that like with a lot of things, if you have enough patience and pay attention, you can pay a lot less than first appears if you are really keen on an area.  Also things can change and prices can get disrupted. You don't have to go to extremes like playing the Bellisseria Game-of-Homes for that special place, just play the long game keep an eye of what's available and be ready to jump when that bargain appears.

[ArgontheDevil Ormega]

Buying land in desirable regions is often a waiting game combined with being online at the right moment.  I was renting a nice parcel in Bay City but I don't like renting in SL any more than I like it in RL so I made a point of checking parcels for sale on a regular basis.  The only problem was, and is, that over a 100 grand for a 1024 is going to put you in the area of spending real money.  My inner Scrooge McDuck rebelled at such a notion.  In spite of that, the cost of the rent was adding up to the point where it made better long-term sense to buy and as I was looking around while gritting my teeth I discovered that some good person had put up three adjoining 1024s for less than 50K each in a moderate region as I do try to follow the rules if I can.

I immediately hopped over to the middle parcel, (A bit of strategy, if you buy the middle parcel you prevent someone else from acquiring a block and thus leave the possiblity open for future expansion of your own, a strategy that was ultimately rewarded in a couple locations.) took a look around, 2x protected and not oddly shaped, easy to put a building on with land left over.  Thus in a matter of minutes I moved money out paypal, upped my tier and grabbed a house out of my inventory to mark the land.

Patience is rewarded.

[Rowan Amore]

I did the same thing.  Patiently watching lots for sale and prices until one popped up I though was reasonable.  Nice corner lot in Horizons well under 100K.  The one behind me which was on the water is or was priced at 300K or rentable.  The double prims do make owning mainland better and worth the initial investment for the plot IMO.

[ChinRey]

5 hours ago, ArgontheDevil Ormega said:

Buying land in desirable regions is often a waiting game combined with being online at the right moment.  I was renting a nice parcel in Bay City but I don't like renting in SL any more than I like it in RL so I made a point of checking parcels for sale on a regular basis.  The only problem was, and is, that over a 100 grand for a 1024 is going to put you in the area of spending real money.

One special tip about Bay City, contact the seller. Often it turns out that the bloated price is mostly to keep random people and land flippers away. If the seller feels safe you appreciate and respect the unique qualities of the area, they may well be willing to give you a much better price.

[ArgontheDevil Ormega]

6 hours ago, ChinRey said:

One special tip about Bay City, contact the seller. Often it turns out that the bloated price is mostly to keep random people and land flippers away. If the seller feels safe you appreciate and respect the unique qualities of the area, they may well be willing to give you a much better price.

A lot of landowners in Bay City know each other because we meet at different events and even we don't know each other well, we recognize the names, so if you have been around for a while the seller may already know you and cut you a deal.  I have a feeling this is something unique to Bay City and may not apply so often elsewhere.

[Crim Mip]

Land is worth what somebody will pay for it. I wouldn't pay more than 1L/m anywhere because almost anywhere there is at least some abandoned land nearby that LL is happy to let be claimed. There are still people who believe it's hard to get. The times when all claims went to auction are long past. At this point if you want abandoned land, just put in a ticket and you'll likely get it with no questions asked.

[Gabriele Graves]

18 minutes ago, Crim Mip said:

Land is worth what somebody will pay for it. I wouldn't pay more than 1L/m anywhere because almost anywhere there is at least some abandoned land nearby that LL is happy to let be claimed. There are still people who believe it's hard to get. The times when all claims went to auction are long past. At this point if you want abandoned land, just put in a ticket and you'll likely get it with no questions asked.

That doesn't work for double-prim land.  It goes straight to auction still.

[Cedric Brown]

I was getting worried about the prices of mainland falling ,seeing all the new Linden home regions, even double prim land. But lo and behold I have faith again. Bay City Molesworth 1024m2 auctions for over L$150K

[Prokofy Neva]

I wish the Lindens had a first-come, first-served rule.

Whoever asks for abandoned land first, gets it.

Instead, when they get multiple requests, they put it to auction, saying this is the only way that is "fair".

But it's not fair, because instead of a group that owns most of a sim, or has a project on part of a sim and needs more prims, land barons unrelated to the sim who merely wish to flip that land can bid it way up in value, so that the average person cannot afford it.

And they have to watch while the land baron grabs what could have been $1/m land, bids it way up on the auction, then marks it way up to $10/ or $20/ or more.

I'm all for commerce and the land business. But I don't think that abandoned land should go for $1/m to land barons to flip, but should go to the people who live on that sim.

Only if multiple people with land on a sim wish to buy the abandoned plot, should it go to auction. I still think the Lindens should script in-sim land sales where only those who own on that sim are eligible to buy the plot.

I realize none of this will be done and nothing will change. It would take really concerted effort on the part of users to change this.

But imagine if when you abandoned land, it went for sale, and went off your tier if you need to lower your tier in a hurry, but only other land owners on that sim could buy it. Then after 7 days, if no one did, it would open up to the general public AKA land barons or the occasional lucky passerby.

The Lindens need to figure out a way to automate the abandoned/re-sale process it takes up a lot of staff time to process, time that could be spent on bettering land as a whole and building new things.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 1/15/2021 at 3:19 PM, Cedric Brown said:

I was getting worried about the prices of mainland falling ,seeing all the new Linden home regions, even double prim land. But lo and behold I have faith again. Bay City Molesworth 1024m2 auctions for over L$150K

If Bay City, Nautilus, Blake Sea and certain Zindra and a few other areas are wildly expensive and even going up, that doesn't mean that Mainland land prices are improving and you should have faith, unless you only want to have faith in very limited areas for a few wealthy or lucky people. Because overall, the prices are falling. You can reach Tyche's surveys. Land goes for less than abandoned prices of $1, to 0.5 or even less per meter in many cases.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

On 1/7/2021 at 12:50 PM, Lloyd Overland said:

 

Snout Point

Highlighted plot is currently for sale for L$300,000, the right, where the boat is for L$99,500

OMG I just went to this location , it is now PACKED with stuff, looks totally different. 

[Qie Niangao]

On 2/7/2021 at 2:00 AM, Prokofy Neva said:

If Bay City, Nautilus, Blake Sea and certain Zindra and a few other areas are wildly expensive and even going up, that doesn't mean that Mainland land prices are improving and you should have faith, unless you only want to have faith in very limited areas for a few wealthy or lucky people. Because overall, the prices are falling. You can reach Tyche's surveys. Land goes for less than abandoned prices of $1, to 0.5 or even less per meter in many cases.

This is purely subjective, but what I think I'm seeing is a trend to increased demand for those high-end Mainland parcels, including parcels neighboring Linden sailing sims, while demand has nearly vanished for lower-end Mainland.

With Bellisseria the alternative, it's hard to see many buyers drawn to a typical landlocked parcel that's adjacent neither roads nor rails. I guess Mainland tier is still cheaper than Estate rent, so for a big space with lots of prims, some barren parcel might be useful, but for folks who just want a pleasant place to hang their hat and rez a couch, it's hard to compete with Bellisseria. And for those motivated to make a unique space for themselves, it's not surprising they'd be willing to pay a lot extra for a special parcel that starts with some geographic context.

(That isn't about Mainland rentals, only ownership, for which Premium is required with either Belli or Mainland. Folks with VAT burdens face a whole different economics.)

Edited February 8, 2021 by Qie Niangao

[Theresa Tennyson]

On 2/7/2021 at 1:57 AM, Prokofy Neva said:

I wish the Lindens had a first-come, first-served rule.

Whoever asks for abandoned land first, gets it.

Instead, when they get multiple requests, they put it to auction, saying this is the only way that is "fair".

But it's not fair, because instead of a group that owns most of a sim, or has a project on part of a sim and needs more prims, land barons unrelated to the sim who merely wish to flip that land can bid it way up in value, so that the average person cannot afford it.

And they have to watch while the land baron grabs what could have been $1/m land, bids it way up on the auction, then marks it way up to $10/ or $20/ or more.

 

The cells - the little gray cells - will suggest that under "first come, first served", the group who is capable of inventing technology such as land bots (i.e. land barons) will then make it so they automatically can request it first, leaving the other "deserving" occupants of the region blinking their eyes and going "Whuh?" three seconds after the land is abandoned.

[Lloyd Overland]

50 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

This is purely subjective, but what I think I'm seeing is a trend to increased demand for those high-end Mainland parcels, including parcels neighboring Linden sailing sims, while demand has nearly vanished for lower-end Mainland.

With Bellisseria the alternative, it's hard to see many buyers drawn to a typical landlocked parcel that's adjacent neither roads nor rails. I guess Mainland tier is still cheaper than Estate rent, so for a big space with lots of prims, some barren parcel might be useful, but for folks who just want a pleasant place to hang their hat and rez a couch, it's hard to compete with Bellisseria. And for those motivated to make a unique space for themselves, it's not surprising they'd be willing to pay a lot extra for a special parcel that starts with some geographic context.

(That isn't about Mainland rentals, only ownership, for which Premium is required with either Belli or Mainland. Folks with VAT burdens face a whole different economics.)

I agree with this 100%. I say this as someone who flew my avatar along the entire easily sailable connected coastline of Satori, Nautilus and Corsica a week ago. I was surprised at the low number of parcels for sale on the water and the very high cost of those I did find. Obviously sale price may not be achieved but generally as someone who spends time in SL sailing my boats and exploring I think we have a two tier mainland, masses of abandoned land away from Linden roads, rails and water and a premium market for those interesting plots with something extra like someone to rez a boat and sail far and wide.

[Prokofy Neva]

55 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

The cells - the little gray cells - will suggest that under "first come, first served", the group who is capable of inventing technology such as land bots (i.e. land barons) will then make it so they automatically can request it first, leaving the other "deserving" occupants of the region blinking their eyes and going "Whuh?" three seconds after the land is abandoned.

Um, no.

I'm talking about *tickets to the Lindens*. That isn't something someone can make a bot for. Sure, somebody's bot might instantly appear the minute the land is abandoned and instantly file a ticket. But it actually doesn't work that way in real life. Because land barons have their limits. I have seen their bots come, and then they don't buy land or ask for land -- they have too much already. The Lindens require a 7 day wait. So they may leave it to another day and then someone might actually get their ticket in first.

The Lindens never met a script they didn't like, so they won't ban land bots. But they could easily institute first come first served on tickets and the literalist notion that all edge cases will prevail all the time and only let land bot wranglers win just won't happen.

[Alexis Crisp]

On 1/9/2021 at 12:27 PM, ArgontheDevil Ormega said:

Buying land in desirable regions is often a waiting game combined with being online at the right moment.  I was renting a nice parcel in Bay City but I don't like renting in SL any more than I like it in RL so I made a point of checking parcels for sale on a regular basis.  The only problem was, and is, that over a 100 grand for a 1024 is going to put you in the area of spending real money.  My inner Scrooge McDuck rebelled at such a notion.  In spite of that, the cost of the rent was adding up to the point where it made better long-term sense to buy and as I was looking around while gritting my teeth I discovered that some good person had put up three adjoining 1024s for less than 50K each in a moderate region as I do try to follow the rules if I can.

I immediately hopped over to the middle parcel, (A bit of strategy, if you buy the middle parcel you prevent someone else from acquiring a block and thus leave the possiblity open for future expansion of your own, a strategy that was ultimately rewarded in a couple locations.) took a look around, 2x protected and not oddly shaped, easy to put a building on with land left over.  Thus in a matter of minutes I moved money out paypal, upped my tier and grabbed a house out of my inventory to mark the land.

Patience is rewarded.

Lucky! I'm also in Bay City and haven't really been able to find the right opportunity to buy yet (I feel the going price in moderate has now creeped in at 160K+). Nice to know opportunities can be had, but you're right... patience is a virtue in Bay City haha. 

[Siofra Highmist]

I definitely know from both past and current experiences that buying in desirable regions is both patience and luck. Years ago, like, 8 years ago, I had a small parcel in Bay City (Dennis) that I didn't really realize the value of. I still to this day wish I had never gotten rid of that land that I originally purchased for like 30k for the 1024 plot and I simply let it go to abandoned when I no longer wanted to play SL daily. This was under old abandoned land procedures, so someone likely snatched it immediately for L$1/sqm. 

I will say though, for anyone that isn't 100% set on paying that much for land, as long as you don't mind the tier fees... you can still find great places elsewhere in the mainland. I am currently located in an area that is on the coast on a river that leads out to the sea one way and into the mainland on the other side. I snagged an original 1536 parcel for about $6k, which felt good considering almost everyone in the area of the sim it was in has followed a beach/vacation theme. The people who purchased the river directly in this area all kept it water and built skyboxes. I then had some abandoned land directly in front of my parcel in the water so I put in a ticket and grabbed a 1536 block to protect my waterfront. Now the abandoned land is a weird shape there, so people won't build directly in front of me. 

Grabbing these parcels was almost entirely lucky timing but there are other spots for sale in this region that look like they have been there a while. There's plenty of places that are certainly no Bay City/Horizons/Nautilus but are still nice enough for you to be happy there, unless you really have your heart set on that. Even with the extra tier fees, I still spend pretty minimal amounts on SL compared to other parts of my recreational life. 

Which, by the way, if anyone wants help hunting for decent mainland plots I love doing it. So I'm willing to help anyone in their search. I just never wanted to become a land baron because I'm as against it in SL as I am in RL. 

[Marianne Little]

I am also thinking that people leave SL and never intend to come back. That they have either got in a really serious, hard disagreement with some other residents, or they feel bad treated by LL.

Or if a long relationship ends and it is real heartbreak, so they never imagine they will log in.

Because if it is only: "I can not pay tier/premium anymore, but I will still use SL", a 50 000 plot will be sold in hours, where others are sold (and bought) for 100 000 +.

50 k is a lot of clothes or cover rent for a good time. But if you will leave SL for good, it does not matter.