getting woke and SL

[Drake1 Nightfire]

9 hours ago, Nick0678 said:

Ahahaha didn't even know M18's still existed.. Cute WW2 relic.

You laugh at the fact a city police force has a working tank.. from WW2 or not, it still works and fires. 

[Janet Voxel]

41 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

I thought community engagement is part of police work? It has been in countries I've lived in, quite successfully. When police are very engaged and integrated with the community, I think it helps break down the "us and them" barrier, as well as making policing a community effort. Is this not a practice in America, or do they outsource it to other organisations?

If you're inclined to watch...

There is a whole industry built around this. Where you have "community policing" yes it works, but often it just doesn't work like that. 

This also answers the question someone was asking earlier about how prison inmates are like slaves.

[Pussycat Catnap]

7 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

And nobody's talking about Federal Agencies snatching people off the streets in Portland either, huh?

I noticed that in the news.

That's a highly illegal move. They don't have jurisdiction for anything there. Federal Agents do NOT have general police powers in the USA...

That's why they've been releasing anyone who asks for a lawyer - because they're opening themselves up to some serious lawsuits. Local police SHOULD consider arresting them for false arrest...

 

[Lyssa Greymoon]

6 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

And nobody's talking about Federal Agencies snatching people off the streets in Portland either, huh?

Community outreach!

[Janet Voxel]

Just now, Pussycat Catnap said:

I noticed that in the news.

That's a highly illegal move. They don't have jurisdiction for anything there. Federal Agents do NOT have general police powers in the USA...

That's why they've been releasing anyone who asks for a lawyer - because they're opening themselves up to some serious lawsuits. Local police SHOULD consider arresting them for false arrest...

 

Its not even that. They're literally attacking and snatching protesters off the streets, holding them and then letting them go. Since the rioting and looting stopped, the federal government is provoking protesters and even the mayor and governor are asking them to stop.

[Janet Voxel]

23 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

It's getting to where all I can do is laugh.....I'm not even upset anymore....the  insane length to which some will go to in order to bend the facts to fit their narrative.  And especially people who live outside the US and don't truly understand the issues specific to this continent, nor do they even have the ability to find credible links as you are able to, and so are not qualified to judge.

The thing is people are telling them what's happening. You say A, they say B, you say C, they say B, you say but in the US....D, they say Yeah but where I live...B, you say but we're talking about the US.....E and here's some facts. They say, yeah, ok...but B. You say here's some more facts so F. They say ok, I understand that, but still....B. I'm glad I don't live over there...LOL...B anyway....all I'm trying to do is understand, but you really aren't giving me any facts.

[Akane Nacht]

22 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

Where you have "community policing" yes it works, but often it just doesn't work like that.

Are there any examples of where it has worked? When policing works well in your country, what do they do right? 

I'm wondering what the next steps would be, after all that's happened recently, and the end goal of what a good system looks like.

ps. I'll stop asking if it bothers Americans that I do so. I was genuinely curious as this makes international news 🤷‍♀️

Edited July 18, 2020 by Akane Nacht

[Pussycat Catnap]

15 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

The thing is people are telling them what's happening. You say A, they say B, you say C, they say B, you say but in the US....D, they say Yeah but where I live...B, you say but we're talking about the US.....E and here's some facts. They say, yeah, ok...but B. You say here's some more facts so F. They say ok, I understand that, but still....B. I'm glad I don't live over there...LOL...B anyway....all I'm trying to do is understand, but you really aren't giving me any facts.

500 years of that though... and folks are still not hearing a single thing being said, and just coming back with "why don't you just say it this way instead of doing that?", then changing the this and the that to something else when people do exactly what they asked for...

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap

[Janet Voxel]

8 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

Are there any examples of where it has worked? When policing works well in your country, what do they do right? 

I'm wondering what the next steps would be, after all that's happened recently, and the end goal of what a good system looks like.

ps. I'll stop asking if it bothers Americans that I do so. I was genuinely curious as this makes international news 🤷‍♀️

I'm Canadian, but I'll bite.

How about we start with what doesn't work? Things like stop and frisk policies, police union presidents on camera saying "Oh yeah, you want to protest? We won't police!", shooting an unarmed woman during a traffic stop, shooting an unarmed man in his own house eating ice cream, kneeling on a subdued man's neck until he's dead, having a body camera but having it turned off during any kind of encounter.

I think the next steps would be...to stop doing those things. What do you think? Maybe the next step would be actual repercussions for officers that do those things.

I'm genuinely curious as to what people from other countries see on the news. Since there are or were protests all around the world. What are they seeing that you aren't or isn't accessible in google to you?

[Akane Nacht]

7 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

I'm Canadian, but I'll bite.

How about we start with what doesn't work? Things like stop and frisk policies, police union presidents on camera saying "Oh yeah, you want to protest? We won't police!", shooting an unarmed woman during a traffic stop, shooting an unarmed man in his own house eating ice cream, kneeling on a subdued man's neck until he's dead, having a body camera but having it turned off during any kind of encounter.

I think the next steps would be...to stop doing those things. What do you think? Maybe the next step would be actual repercussions for officers that do those things.

I'm genuinely curious as to what people from other countries see on the news. Since there are or were protests all around the world. What are they seeing that you aren't or isn't accessible in google to you?

I've lived in Canada, albeit many years ago. Police there did outreach to schools, as I recall, and other community programmes. I don't recall any hostility or mistrust towards them, but I lived in a rather small city, so perhaps that made a difference.

Of course police should not do things that infringe the law, that's kind of a no-brainer. I am in full agreement there. What I was asking was, what are the positive things that can be expanded on, or new things introduced?  How can relationships be mended going forward? 

As for what we see on the news, we see recycled things from CNN and Reuters for the most part, at least in the English press. For the protests that affected parts of Asia, these tended to weave in local issues, of various sorts, regarding treatment of minorities and political views. It varied country to country. 

[Janet Voxel]

19 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

500 years of that though... and folks are still not hearing a single thing being said, and just coming back with "why don't you just say it this way instead of doing that?", then changing the this and the that to something else when people do exactly what they asked for...

Oh you mean, moving the goal posts? and the "Don't get the pitchforks out on me, LOL but..." and the "You're never going to get people on your side saying what you say..." or "Show me the data....I don't care about the data... In my opinion..." or....usually verbose, superfluous posters going silent, zero post history users popping in and out to be contrary...gee I don't know. 

I think it's because this makes people very uncomfortable, it's not your usual "Which body should I get?" discussion or "If you were a fruit, what kind of fruit would you be?" kinds of discussions that usually go on here. There's nothing funny about it, its very real and its happening in a cornerstone (like it or not) of the entire world, which means...it could happen anywhere. In some places, the very same thing is happening where people are saying its not. 

 Its not an easy thing to talk about, an easy thing to deal with and has no easy solutions, but it has to start somewhere....

[Ceka Cianci]

49 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

Are there any examples of where it has worked? When policing works well in your country, what do they do right? 

I'm wondering what the next steps would be, after all that's happened recently, and the end goal of what a good system looks like.

ps. I'll stop asking if it bothers Americans that I do so. I was genuinely curious as this makes international news 🤷‍♀️

 

Also just to show how much a little goes a long way with just the local community outreach itself..

This was 2013.. A lot of the public types of programs that were like this, have been pulled from the places that need them the most and leaving the local communities to fend for themselves..

 

[Akane Nacht]

13 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Also just to show how much a little goes a long way with just the local community outreach itself..

This was 2013.. A lot of the public types of programs that were like this, have been pulled from the places that need them the most and leaving the local communities to fend for themselves..

Thanks. Those bring up several positives, like police as problem-solvers, having a holistic view of community well-being, and focusing on relationship building within the community. Pity such programmes were pulled.. it would probably work if given time to flourish.

[Janet Voxel]

2 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

I've lived in Canada, albeit many years ago. Police there did outreach to schools, as I recall, and other community programmes. I don't recall any hostility or mistrust towards them, but I lived in a rather small city, so perhaps that made a difference.

The thing is we aren't talking about the police in Canada (which has its own problems). We're talking about the police in the US. The police have outreach in schools, I'm pretty sure most communities have a D.A.R.E programme. That's great for a 10 year old kid. But what happens to that same ten year old kid that saw the police as a hero and Batman when turns 14? 

Did you watch that trailer I posted? No? It has a kid about 14-15 that says "The police told me to just come with them...they were just going to hold me for a little while" then you see what happens to him. An innocent kid. 

A lot of black parents in the US tell their children to just comply and don't say anything, because you might get killed if you don't. I'm sure your parents never had that conversation with you when you were a small child. 

10 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

Of course police should not do things that infringe the law, that's kind of a no-brainer. I am in full agreement there. 

But they are...and they're getting away with it. Its been going on and it's continuing, that's what people are protesting. But for some reason...its not working out that way.

14 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

 What I was asking was, what are the positive things that can be expanded on, or new things introduced?  How can relationships be mended going forward? 

I know what you were asking. You answered your own question, community policing would be a good start. That's not happening in the US like it should and where it is happening, it works. Instead of that though, you're getting police quitting and in some cases outright saying....then they won't police. Which to me is like....holding public safety hostage. Their own reaction to all of this has been just as counter-productive as say..rioting is. Who's going to build the bridge? Who's going to make them build that bridge?

25 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

As for what we see on the news, we see recycled things from CNN and Reuters for the most part, at least in the English press.

That's what I thought. I guess I'm just curious how even if you're in another country, how some of the conclusions that are being drawn...are being drawn, because well if I google something like "Breonna Taylor" the first thing I get is this: https://www.nytimes.com/article/breonna-taylor-police.html which in my opinion is a pretty unbiased account of what happened. Someone in this thread, maybe it was the other one said, "I know the police barged in without announcing themselves....but her boyfriend had a gun and he shot first" Uh...hello? I'm just curious...are these kinds of facts being left out? Is it just not wanting to know what happened? For me....seeking more information would just come naturally.

 

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

2 hours ago, Janet Voxel said:

 

There is a whole industry built around this. Where you have "community policing" yes it works, but often it just doesn't work like that.

Oh, an added note on this...

So...

How do they keep these prisons full of guards and get communities to be willing to do this to African Americans?

Answer to that is also a very bleak and dark story tracing back into slavery days.

They find poor destitute white communities that have no access to jobs, and put the prison there. The whites become dependent on getting a job in the prison or... moving into the prison on the other side of the bars...

These are usually communities with a very low minority population so that it is easier to get them to see Blacks as not the same kind of human...

And if the prison stops filling up with Black bodies? The local economy dies...

So you basically train a poor White community to be your slavery enforcers.

THE EXACT SAME THING THAT AS DONE DURING SLAVERY DAYS - MAKE ONE DOG PUT DOWN THE OTHER, IN A SYSTEM THAT DESTROYS HOPE AND OPPORTUNITY FOR BOTH...

 

On the far reaches of my extended family I know people who are guards in those profit prisons... I've seen them go through the process of self-justification for it...

 

pps: Ever wonder why there are so many Irish and Italian cop families? Back in he day places would have 'no Irish need apply' or no Italians and such signs on them... except for the police. Your only opportunities in live rapidly devolved down into "join a gang / mafia" or "join the police and hunt down your own family"...

- Blacks, Natives, and Chicanos though, were never given the choice to join the police until modern times... (but they did have the path of the military... and historically an "unusually high percentage" of Native Americans have joined the military - that path opened up for them even before the Indian Wars were over, as they used to use them to hunt their own people... not that it helped: the Chief of the Cherokee when they were marched on the Trail of Tears was an officer in the US Army who in fact served in Andrew Jackson's personal entourage... but after the wars, it was a way to get off the Reservation back when they otherwise weren't allowed out).

Oh, and even in modern times, any criminal record and you can't become a cop... and because they criminalize EVERYTHING when you're Black or LatinX; making it to adulthood without a record is not easy...

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap

[Janet Voxel]

10 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

On the far reaches of my extended family I know people who are guards in those profit prisons... I've seen them go through the process of self-justification for it...

In other words....working as intended?

[Ceka Cianci]

30 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

Thanks. Those bring up several positives, like police as problem-solvers, having a holistic view of community well-being, and focusing on relationship building within the community. Pity such programmes were pulled.. it would probably work if given time to flourish.

The thing is, you don't hear much about these things and get  to see good things going on in the communities.. So those areas get looked at more as just bad happening and hopeless situations..Just bad people and nobody trying.. money getting pulled from those areas even though there are tax payers there too and it getting routed to better parts of the city..Businesses not wanting to go there..

The biggest Us and Them going on is in our politicians chairs.. They are the biggest contributors to the structure and have created a lot of the things going on today..They are starving specific areas of opportunity and hope while overfeeding other parts.. They know how to reduce crime and tension, but they don't..

What eats me alive is they know these things work and go the other direction.. Then you have the media doing what it does just fanning the flames and reinforcing stereotypes to make matters worse..

With all levels of society you have those that are trying and those that have given in or given up.. The media in these poorer areas focuses on those that have given in or given up, but hardly ever hear of those trying and working to become better or trying to improve things..

They do it with the black poor communities as well as with the white poor communities..They take the worst of each and make them look like the largest part of what's there and pit them against each other on the screen..

I've lived in both and can tell you, there is good and bad in both.. But even the bad aren't hopeless cases..A lot are just a hope and a thought away from flipping the script to becoming better..A lot just comes down to what there is to choose from and who's in their head..

My father has many times pulled people off the street and taught them a trade by training them for a year and then finding them a job afterwards.. Then turn around and do it again..

Even when he was on vacation he met a man in Hawaii,offered him a job if he ever made it to the states..

That man did everything he could to get to the states and  took my father up on the opportunity..

We ended up getting married and having three beautiful boys together..

Anyways, I'm starting to get side tracked again..

I've said this since I can remember ever being in any discussions like this.. A little hope and opportunity to those that are starving for it will go such a long way..

Just ignoring whole communities of people and shoving them off to the side to be forgotten, that's people in those higher up chairs doing that for personal gain and medias doing it for clicks..

We need more of this..

 

[Akane Nacht]

36 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

Did you watch that trailer I posted? No? It has a kid about 14-15 that says "The police told me to just come with them...they were just going to hold me for a little while" then you see what happens to him. An innocent kid. 

I did watch it, twice cos it covered a lot. Looks like a deeply corrupt and cruel system.

38 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

Who's going to build the bridge? Who's going to make them build that bridge?

That's the million dollar question - if there is a proven blueprint for how to make policing work, who will champion it, and will communities get behind them to support it? 

 

39 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

I guess I'm just curious how even if you're in another country, how some of the conclusions that are being drawn...are being drawn

I don't know, you'd have to ask the people who drew those conclusions. My opinion is, when it comes to criminal cases, I'd go by whatever press release the relevant authorities put out.

[Akane Nacht]

12 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I've lived in both and can tell you, there is good and bad in both.. But even the bad aren't hopeless cases..A lot are just a hope and a thought away from flipping the script to becoming better..A lot just comes down to what there is to choose from and who's in their head..

Your post made me hear the "100 tears away" song in my head. 😄

True that. Nothing's a lost cause. We just get stalled now and then.

[Janet Voxel]

5 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

That's the million dollar question - if there is a proven blueprint for how to make policing work, who will champion it, and will communities get behind them to support it? 

I think the communities that need them would support community policing, because where ever it's done, it works. That's why I'm pointing out to you that there is a whole industry behind policing working the way it works in the US.

Let me put it to you another way: In 1775, the US invaded Quebec. Their goal was to take Quebec City, which would which would've effectively given the US control of what would be Canada. They took Montreal with very little resistance, in fact they were welcomed. This is what the history books leave out, the occupying force treated the Quebecois so poorly (ironically taking their guns) that the population that once welcomed them turned against them. Losing the Quebecois support, they went on to try to take Quebec City and well....that turned out well.

What's the lesson here? An occupying force should never mistreat the occupied population. This is textbook stuff. What you're seeing is a population being treated like they are occupied by the police and its been this way for years. Go back to 1992....police brutality. Go back to multiple cities all over the US in the 70's....police brutality. Not much has changed. So when you say what would work, what would work is already known. It's just not being done.

[Ceka Cianci]

6 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

Your post made me hear the "100 tears away" song in my head. 😄

True that. Nothing's a lost cause. We just get stalled now and then.

I never heard that song before and had to go and listen to it..I like it a lot and gonna put it on my play list.

[Nick0678]

9 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I just have to praise you. Even though you live outside the US, and even though you've labeled yourself as conservative, you are able to see what we are dealing with here in the US is extreme (heading toward fascism really) and is not actually conservatism.  Many are so obsessed with their 'side' of things that they are trying to shove us into their paradigm of whatever conservatism means in their countries.   Anyway, thanks for having a clear mind, or taking the time to see what's really going on here.

Thank you it really doesn't matter if i am a conservative or liberal or anarchist or whatever, what we all saw was a pure example of racism and hate and had nothing to do with "protecting the society".

Having whatever ideology  doesn't mean you have no respect for human life, same way it doesn't make you more of a human then others, for example i am totally against drugs, i consider them to disrupt the integrity of a person and had some friends who used to do drugs but i wouldn't disrespect them for that. It is their life so their choice BUT i wouldn't allow any kind of drugs even pot in my house and they also respect that. Most people hide behind ideologies their true self, personally i don't care and multiple times i have helped immigrants from asian or african countries who were walking on the road and nobody regardless of ideology was giving them just a ride to ease the pain on their feet.

It's not good to treat people like sh*t or ignore their pain. You have eyes and you can see who needs help.

My point is that there's no society when people either in uniforms or simple civilians act to each other the way we saw, that was pure hate and i don't care if that hate comes from a conservative, democrat, capitalist, communist, rich, poor, american, russian or "put whatever you like here". I will always be against it because that's the way i am.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Nick0678

[Gage Wirefly]

9 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I just have to praise you. Even though you live outside the US, and even though you've labeled yourself as conservative, you are able to see what we are dealing with here in the US is extreme (heading toward fascism really) and is not actually conservatism.  Many are so obsessed with their 'side' of things that they are trying to shove us into their paradigm of whatever conservatism means in their countries.   Anyway, thanks for having a clear mind, or taking the time to see what's really going on here.

Fascism, really? That is absolutely absurd, and it always sounds absurd no matter who I hear it from about the U.S.  A large tenant of fascism is forcible suppression of opposing views. You see this mainly from hard line LEFTISTS-Such as silencing and de-platforming conservative voices on social media, not allowing conservative voices to be heard in public speaking events, i.e. getting them shut down. Antifa itself is a fascist outfit, even though they claim to be fighting fascism. It's complete clown world now.

In the U.S. we are free to criticize our government without retribution, we can express our opinions , so no we are not 'heading' toward fascism. The problem in my opinion are those who want single party rule without opposition. That is a very dangerous space that should be avoided .

 

[Hiroshima Wyx]

 

17 hours ago, Nick0678 said:

 

Ok he was a large man so what,  you don't have people kissing the ground on the suspicion of giving a counterfeited 20 usd or 20 euros bill to buy a pack of cigarettes. .

He was made to 'kiss the ground' because he was high as a kite and resisting arrest. He could have just got in the back of the car as requested, and we'd have been spared these two months of BS. 

17 hours ago, Nick0678 said:

 

Maybe he had a record sure ok

Yeah, for the minor crimes of home invasion and jamming a shotgun against a pregnant woman's belly.

17 hours ago, Nick0678 said:

in that moment we are talking about a guy getting a pack of cigarettes.

Cmon what all of us saw was disgusting and total disrespect for human life.. for a ridiculous 20 dollar bill.

Oh OK, I can rip you off for $20 then. Fair's fair. 

 

17 hours ago, Janet Voxel said:

And that doesn't even touch on the things that happen to black people, particularly black males when they even come in contact with the criminal justice system. TLDR: Life screwed over something minor.

Yeah, robbery, mugging, rape, homicide...something minor. 

[RiffRegan]

The mods should put a hefty knee on this thread's neck.