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8 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

Are there any examples of where it has worked? When policing works well in your country, what do they do right? 

I'm wondering what the next steps would be, after all that's happened recently, and the end goal of what a good system looks like.

ps. I'll stop asking if it bothers Americans that I do so. I was genuinely curious as this makes international news 🤷‍♀️

I'm Canadian, but I'll bite.

How about we start with what doesn't work? Things like stop and frisk policies, police union presidents on camera saying "Oh yeah, you want to protest? We won't police!", shooting an unarmed woman during a traffic stop, shooting an unarmed man in his own house eating ice cream, kneeling on a subdued man's neck until he's dead, having a body camera but having it turned off during any kind of encounter.

I think the next steps would be...to stop doing those things. What do you think? Maybe the next step would be actual repercussions for officers that do those things.

I'm genuinely curious as to what people from other countries see on the news. Since there are or were protests all around the world. What are they seeing that you aren't or isn't accessible in google to you?

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This graphic, which I saw over the road at VVO, distinguishes between the political and the non-political quite well, I think  

Why it can feel hard to talk about racial inequality, and why you should do it anyway.... So, anyway, as i mentioned in a couple of other threads, the company I work for gave us a paid day off in

Racism is defined as: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. You can't change the definition to

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7 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

I'm Canadian, but I'll bite.

How about we start with what doesn't work? Things like stop and frisk policies, police union presidents on camera saying "Oh yeah, you want to protest? We won't police!", shooting an unarmed woman during a traffic stop, shooting an unarmed man in his own house eating ice cream, kneeling on a subdued man's neck until he's dead, having a body camera but having it turned off during any kind of encounter.

I think the next steps would be...to stop doing those things. What do you think? Maybe the next step would be actual repercussions for officers that do those things.

I'm genuinely curious as to what people from other countries see on the news. Since there are or were protests all around the world. What are they seeing that you aren't or isn't accessible in google to you?

I've lived in Canada, albeit many years ago. Police there did outreach to schools, as I recall, and other community programmes. I don't recall any hostility or mistrust towards them, but I lived in a rather small city, so perhaps that made a difference.

Of course police should not do things that infringe the law, that's kind of a no-brainer. I am in full agreement there. What I was asking was, what are the positive things that can be expanded on, or new things introduced?  How can relationships be mended going forward? 

As for what we see on the news, we see recycled things from CNN and Reuters for the most part, at least in the English press. For the protests that affected parts of Asia, these tended to weave in local issues, of various sorts, regarding treatment of minorities and political views. It varied country to country. 

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19 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

500 years of that though... and folks are still not hearing a single thing being said, and just coming back with "why don't you just say it this way instead of doing that?", then changing the this and the that to something else when people do exactly what they asked for...

Oh you mean, moving the goal posts? and the "Don't get the pitchforks out on me, LOL but..." and the "You're never going to get people on your side saying what you say..." or "Show me the data....I don't care about the data... In my opinion..." or....usually verbose, superfluous posters going silent, zero post history users popping in and out to be contrary...gee I don't know. 

I think it's because this makes people very uncomfortable, it's not your usual "Which body should I get?" discussion or "If you were a fruit, what kind of fruit would you be?" kinds of discussions that usually go on here. There's nothing funny about it, its very real and its happening in a cornerstone (like it or not) of the entire world, which means...it could happen anywhere. In some places, the very same thing is happening where people are saying its not. 

 Its not an easy thing to talk about, an easy thing to deal with and has no easy solutions, but it has to start somewhere....

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49 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

Are there any examples of where it has worked? When policing works well in your country, what do they do right? 

I'm wondering what the next steps would be, after all that's happened recently, and the end goal of what a good system looks like.

ps. I'll stop asking if it bothers Americans that I do so. I was genuinely curious as this makes international news 🤷‍♀️

 

Also just to show how much a little goes a long way with just the local community outreach itself..

This was 2013.. A lot of the public types of programs that were like this, have been pulled from the places that need them the most and leaving the local communities to fend for themselves..

 

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13 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Also just to show how much a little goes a long way with just the local community outreach itself..

This was 2013.. A lot of the public types of programs that were like this, have been pulled from the places that need them the most and leaving the local communities to fend for themselves..

Thanks. Those bring up several positives, like police as problem-solvers, having a holistic view of community well-being, and focusing on relationship building within the community. Pity such programmes were pulled.. it would probably work if given time to flourish.

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2 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

I've lived in Canada, albeit many years ago. Police there did outreach to schools, as I recall, and other community programmes. I don't recall any hostility or mistrust towards them, but I lived in a rather small city, so perhaps that made a difference.

The thing is we aren't talking about the police in Canada (which has its own problems). We're talking about the police in the US. The police have outreach in schools, I'm pretty sure most communities have a D.A.R.E programme. That's great for a 10 year old kid. But what happens to that same ten year old kid that saw the police as a hero and Batman when turns 14? 

Did you watch that trailer I posted? No? It has a kid about 14-15 that says "The police told me to just come with them...they were just going to hold me for a little while" then you see what happens to him. An innocent kid. 

A lot of black parents in the US tell their children to just comply and don't say anything, because you might get killed if you don't. I'm sure your parents never had that conversation with you when you were a small child. 

10 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

Of course police should not do things that infringe the law, that's kind of a no-brainer. I am in full agreement there. 

But they are...and they're getting away with it. Its been going on and it's continuing, that's what people are protesting. But for some reason...its not working out that way.

14 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

 What I was asking was, what are the positive things that can be expanded on, or new things introduced?  How can relationships be mended going forward? 

I know what you were asking. You answered your own question, community policing would be a good start. That's not happening in the US like it should and where it is happening, it works. Instead of that though, you're getting police quitting and in some cases outright saying....then they won't police. Which to me is like....holding public safety hostage. Their own reaction to all of this has been just as counter-productive as say..rioting is. Who's going to build the bridge? Who's going to make them build that bridge?

25 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

As for what we see on the news, we see recycled things from CNN and Reuters for the most part, at least in the English press.

That's what I thought. I guess I'm just curious how even if you're in another country, how some of the conclusions that are being drawn...are being drawn, because well if I google something like "Breonna Taylor" the first thing I get is this: https://www.nytimes.com/article/breonna-taylor-police.html which in my opinion is a pretty unbiased account of what happened. Someone in this thread, maybe it was the other one said, "I know the police barged in without announcing themselves....but her boyfriend had a gun and he shot first" Uh...hello? I'm just curious...are these kinds of facts being left out? Is it just not wanting to know what happened? For me....seeking more information would just come naturally.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Janet Voxel said:

 

There is a whole industry built around this. Where you have "community policing" yes it works, but often it just doesn't work like that.

Oh, an added note on this...

So...

How do they keep these prisons full of guards and get communities to be willing to do this to African Americans?

Answer to that is also a very bleak and dark story tracing back into slavery days.

They find poor destitute white communities that have no access to jobs, and put the prison there. The whites become dependent on getting a job in the prison or... moving into the prison on the other side of the bars...

These are usually communities with a very low minority population so that it is easier to get them to see Blacks as not the same kind of human...

And if the prison stops filling up with Black bodies? The local economy dies...

So you basically train a poor White community to be your slavery enforcers.

THE EXACT SAME THING THAT AS DONE DURING SLAVERY DAYS - MAKE ONE DOG PUT DOWN THE OTHER, IN A SYSTEM THAT DESTROYS HOPE AND OPPORTUNITY FOR BOTH...

 

On the far reaches of my extended family I know people who are guards in those profit prisons... I've seen them go through the process of self-justification for it...

 

pps: Ever wonder why there are so many Irish and Italian cop families? Back in he day places would have 'no Irish need apply' or no Italians and such signs on them... except for the police. Your only opportunities in live rapidly devolved down into "join a gang / mafia" or "join the police and hunt down your own family"...

- Blacks, Natives, and Chicanos though, were never given the choice to join the police until modern times... (but they did have the path of the military... and historically an "unusually high percentage" of Native Americans have joined the military - that path opened up for them even before the Indian Wars were over, as they used to use them to hunt their own people... not that it helped: the Chief of the Cherokee when they were marched on the Trail of Tears was an officer in the US Army who in fact served in Andrew Jackson's personal entourage... but after the wars, it was a way to get off the Reservation back when they otherwise weren't allowed out).

Oh, and even in modern times, any criminal record and you can't become a cop... and because they criminalize EVERYTHING when you're Black or LatinX; making it to adulthood without a record is not easy...

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

On the far reaches of my extended family I know people who are guards in those profit prisons... I've seen them go through the process of self-justification for it...

In other words....working as intended?

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30 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

Thanks. Those bring up several positives, like police as problem-solvers, having a holistic view of community well-being, and focusing on relationship building within the community. Pity such programmes were pulled.. it would probably work if given time to flourish.

The thing is, you don't hear much about these things and get  to see good things going on in the communities.. So those areas get looked at more as just bad happening and hopeless situations..Just bad people and nobody trying.. money getting pulled from those areas even though there are tax payers there too and it getting routed to better parts of the city..Businesses not wanting to go there..

The biggest Us and Them going on is in our politicians chairs.. They are the biggest contributors to the structure and have created a lot of the things going on today..They are starving specific areas of opportunity and hope while overfeeding other parts.. They know how to reduce crime and tension, but they don't..

What eats me alive is they know these things work and go the other direction.. Then you have the media doing what it does just fanning the flames and reinforcing stereotypes to make matters worse..

With all levels of society you have those that are trying and those that have given in or given up.. The media in these poorer areas focuses on those that have given in or given up, but hardly ever hear of those trying and working to become better or trying to improve things..

They do it with the black poor communities as well as with the white poor communities..They take the worst of each and make them look like the largest part of what's there and pit them against each other on the screen..

I've lived in both and can tell you, there is good and bad in both.. But even the bad aren't hopeless cases..A lot are just a hope and a thought away from flipping the script to becoming better..A lot just comes down to what there is to choose from and who's in their head..

My father has many times pulled people off the street and taught them a trade by training them for a year and then finding them a job afterwards.. Then turn around and do it again..

Even when he was on vacation he met a man in Hawaii,offered him a job if he ever made it to the states..

That man did everything he could to get to the states and  took my father up on the opportunity..

We ended up getting married and having three beautiful boys together..

Anyways, I'm starting to get side tracked again..

I've said this since I can remember ever being in any discussions like this.. A little hope and opportunity to those that are starving for it will go such a long way..

Just ignoring whole communities of people and shoving them off to the side to be forgotten, that's people in those higher up chairs doing that for personal gain and medias doing it for clicks..

We need more of this..

 

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36 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

Did you watch that trailer I posted? No? It has a kid about 14-15 that says "The police told me to just come with them...they were just going to hold me for a little while" then you see what happens to him. An innocent kid. 

I did watch it, twice cos it covered a lot. Looks like a deeply corrupt and cruel system.

38 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

Who's going to build the bridge? Who's going to make them build that bridge?

That's the million dollar question - if there is a proven blueprint for how to make policing work, who will champion it, and will communities get behind them to support it? 

 

39 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

I guess I'm just curious how even if you're in another country, how some of the conclusions that are being drawn...are being drawn

I don't know, you'd have to ask the people who drew those conclusions. My opinion is, when it comes to criminal cases, I'd go by whatever press release the relevant authorities put out.

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12 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I've lived in both and can tell you, there is good and bad in both.. But even the bad aren't hopeless cases..A lot are just a hope and a thought away from flipping the script to becoming better..A lot just comes down to what there is to choose from and who's in their head..

Your post made me hear the "100 tears away" song in my head. 😄

True that. Nothing's a lost cause. We just get stalled now and then.

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5 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

That's the million dollar question - if there is a proven blueprint for how to make policing work, who will champion it, and will communities get behind them to support it? 

I think the communities that need them would support community policing, because where ever it's done, it works. That's why I'm pointing out to you that there is a whole industry behind policing working the way it works in the US.

Let me put it to you another way: In 1775, the US invaded Quebec. Their goal was to take Quebec City, which would which would've effectively given the US control of what would be Canada. They took Montreal with very little resistance, in fact they were welcomed. This is what the history books leave out, the occupying force treated the Quebecois so poorly (ironically taking their guns) that the population that once welcomed them turned against them. Losing the Quebecois support, they went on to try to take Quebec City and well....that turned out well.

What's the lesson here? An occupying force should never mistreat the occupied population. This is textbook stuff. What you're seeing is a population being treated like they are occupied by the police and its been this way for years. Go back to 1992....police brutality. Go back to multiple cities all over the US in the 70's....police brutality. Not much has changed. So when you say what would work, what would work is already known. It's just not being done.

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6 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

Your post made me hear the "100 tears away" song in my head. 😄

True that. Nothing's a lost cause. We just get stalled now and then.

I never heard that song before and had to go and listen to it..I like it a lot and gonna put it on my play list.:)

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9 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I just have to praise you. Even though you live outside the US, and even though you've labeled yourself as conservative, you are able to see what we are dealing with here in the US is extreme (heading toward fascism really) and is not actually conservatism.  Many are so obsessed with their 'side' of things that they are trying to shove us into their paradigm of whatever conservatism means in their countries.   Anyway, thanks for having a clear mind, or taking the time to see what's really going on here.

Thank you it really doesn't matter if i am a conservative or liberal or anarchist or whatever, what we all saw was a pure example of racism and hate and had nothing to do with "protecting the society".

Having whatever ideology  doesn't mean you have no respect for human life, same way it doesn't make you more of a human then others, for example i am totally against drugs, i consider them to disrupt the integrity of a person and had some friends who used to do drugs but i wouldn't disrespect them for that. It is their life so their choice BUT i wouldn't allow any kind of drugs even pot in my house and they also respect that. Most people hide behind ideologies their true self, personally i don't care and multiple times i have helped immigrants from asian or african countries who were walking on the road and nobody regardless of ideology was giving them just a ride to ease the pain on their feet.

It's not good to treat people like sh*t or ignore their pain. You have eyes and you can see who needs help.

My point is that there's no society when people either in uniforms or simple civilians act to each other the way we saw, that was pure hate and i don't care if that hate comes from a conservative, democrat, capitalist, communist, rich, poor, american, russian or "put whatever you like here". I will always be against it because that's the way i am.

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9 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I just have to praise you. Even though you live outside the US, and even though you've labeled yourself as conservative, you are able to see what we are dealing with here in the US is extreme (heading toward fascism really) and is not actually conservatism.  Many are so obsessed with their 'side' of things that they are trying to shove us into their paradigm of whatever conservatism means in their countries.   Anyway, thanks for having a clear mind, or taking the time to see what's really going on here.

Fascism, really? That is absolutely absurd, and it always sounds absurd no matter who I hear it from about the U.S.  A large tenant of fascism is forcible suppression of opposing views. You see this mainly from hard line LEFTISTS-Such as silencing and de-platforming conservative voices on social media, not allowing conservative voices to be heard in public speaking events, i.e. getting them shut down. Antifa itself is a fascist outfit, even though they claim to be fighting fascism. It's complete clown world now.

In the U.S. we are free to criticize our government without retribution, we can express our opinions , so no we are not 'heading' toward fascism. The problem in my opinion are those who want single party rule without opposition. That is a very dangerous space that should be avoided .

 

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This children's book looks great with it's emphasis on the detailed lives of real life activists kids can identify with (sorry, doting grandma here  :):

Kid Activists: True Tales of Childhood from Champions of Change (Kid Legends)

Moving, relatable, and totally true childhood biographies of Martin Luther King Jr., Susan B. Anthony, Helen Keller, Malala Yousafzai, and 12 other inspiring activists.
 
Every activist started out as a kid—and in some cases they were kids when their activism began! But even the world’s greatest champions of civil liberties had relatable interests and problems--often in the middle of extraordinary circumstances. Martin Luther King, Jr. loved fashion, and argued with his dad about whether or not dancing was a sin. Harvey Milk had a passion for listening to opera music in different languages. Dolores Huerta was once wrongly accused of plagiarizing in school.  Kid Activists tells these childhood stories and more through kid-friendly texts and full-color cartoon illustrations on nearly every page. The diverse and inclusive group encompasses Susan B. AnthonyJames BaldwinRuby BridgesFrederick DouglassAlexander HamiltonDolores HuertaHelen KellerMartin Luther King Jr.Nelson MandelaIqbal MasihHarvey MilkJanet MockRosa ParksAutumn PeltierEmma Watson, and Malala Yousafzai.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1683691415/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_i_.3MaFb7ME9VP1

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4 hours ago, Nick0678 said:

Having whatever ideology  doesn't mean you have no respect for human life, same way it doesn't make you more of a human then others, for example i am totally against drugs, i consider them to disrupt the integrity of a person and had some friends who used to do drugs but i wouldn't disrespect them for that. It is their life so their choice BUT i wouldn't allow any kind of drugs even pot in my house and they also respect that. Most people hide behind ideologies their true self

I think the whole prison system needs to be over-hauled.  First, abolish this law in the 13 Amendment that says someone is a slave if they commit a crime.  Next, we need a type of enclosed (fenced) rehab center instead of prison as it sounds more humane to me than jail.  At least 90% of crimes are drug-related if not more and somebody (maybe our government) need to wake up to that fact.  

Next, the government needs to get rid of these drugs and provide adequate jobs, education, health care and housing.   And, if they can't do that - provide jobs for one and for all, we need UBI.  

We need a whole social worker team of trained to professionals to get this country humane and to work towards rehabilitating people safely out of the prison system as prior to marijuana being legal in states, 48% of people who were in prison were in prison on marijuana-related charges.  48%!   But, once you have a prison record, it's very difficult to get a job.  

And, btw, I don't believe the United States is so inept it cannot get rid of these other illegal drugs.  If they can't get rid of the illegal drugs (I don't include pot here), then somebody tell me why not?  

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56 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I think the whole prison system needs to be over-hauled.  First, abolish this law in the 13 Amendment that says someone is a slave if they commit a crime.  Next, we need a type of enclosed (fenced) rehab center instead of prison as it sounds more humane to me than jail.  At least 90% of crimes are drug-related if not more and somebody (maybe our government) need to wake up to that fact.  

Next, the government needs to get rid of these drugs and provide adequate jobs, education, health care and housing.   And, if they can't do that - provide jobs for one and for all, we need UBI.  

We need a whole social worker team of trained to professionals to get this country humane and to work towards rehabilitating people safely out of the prison system as prior to marijuana being legal in states, 48% of people who were in prison were in prison on marijuana-related charges.  48%!   But, once you have a prison record, it's very difficult to get a job.  

And, btw, I don't believe the United States is so inept it cannot get rid of these other illegal drugs.  If they can't get rid of the illegal drugs (I don't include pot here), then somebody tell me why not?  

You say 48 percent on marijuana charges, what does that mean exactly? People caught with just possession of a small amount should not be in prison or even jail, I agree. However, people caught with significant amounts and are charged with trafficking or distribution, yeah those folks need to be behind bars for a long time. It would be nice to know which percentages you quoted are for which offense-more for minor possession or more for trafficking/distribution- I would wager its the latter.

We differ on the government's role. It is not the government's role to provide someone with everything for their life. I absolutely do not agree with that.

And something for thought. Yes certain policing tactics need to change, I do not disagree with that at all. If the crime rate has truly fallen since the 90s then this tells me that stringent policing DOES WORK, no? I understand that statement will make some angry, but again I do not defend wrong doing by police against anyone, that needs to change and they should be held accountable.

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1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

I think the whole prison system needs to be over-hauled.  First, abolish this law in the 13 Amendment that says someone is a slave if they commit a crime.  Next, we need a type of enclosed (fenced) rehab center instead of prison as it sounds more humane to me than jail.  At least 90% of crimes are drug-related if not more and somebody (maybe our government) need to wake up to that fact.  

Next, the government needs to get rid of these drugs and provide adequate jobs, education, health care and housing.   And, if they can't do that - provide jobs for one and for all, we need UBI.  

We need a whole social worker team of trained to professionals to get this country humane and to work towards rehabilitating people safely out of the prison system as prior to marijuana being legal in states, 48% of people who were in prison were in prison on marijuana-related charges.  48%!   But, once you have a prison record, it's very difficult to get a job.  

And, btw, I don't believe the United States is so inept it cannot get rid of these other illegal drugs.  If they can't get rid of the illegal drugs (I don't include pot here), then somebody tell me why not?  

Picture a bucket of water, top to bottom full of holes and you only have a hand full of corks to stop the leaks..

They have submarines, boats, drones, planes, mules, tunnels, and many other ways to get them into the country..That's just  the southern border, because they come in from the northern border as well.. Which if you haven't seen the northern border..It looks like someone mowed the lawn in between the U.S and Canada to show the border..

the-entire-length-of-the-us-canada-borde

_92386654_gettyimages-57169787.jpg

We were up there one time and on a lake that had the border going through it..We were in Canada but could cross over back and forth all day long and not a soul was around to say anything..

Let alone you have people that make drugs here..Then there is the prescription type drugs that people sell..

 

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57 minutes ago, Gage Wirefly said:

It is not the government's role to provide someone with everything for their life. I absolutely do not agree with that.

Thanks for your honest opinion about everything.  As far as providing UBI for those that don't have a job, I do feel it's necessary BUT they can be on a waiting list for a job.  If the job doesn't happen or falls through, there is still a basic decent amount of money that they can live on but it should also be provided in that they stay clean and attend regular programs while on UBI.  

The prison system is archaic and especially the law that says someone who commits a crime is a slave, this absolutely should not be tolerated in any country.  Some people are mentally or emotionally ill and that is the reason they take drugs as well as it's a disease.  It's a mysterious disease but it's still a disease.   

57 minutes ago, Gage Wirefly said:

You say 48 percent on marijuana charges, what does that mean exactly? People caught with just possession of a small amount should not be in prison or even jail, I agree

Most states have some kind of state legalized marijuana now but I am not sure exactly what all the laws are for all 50 states, so I really should speak only about California.  Marijuana is legalized here now; however, if you want to be a grower you have to be licensed.  

The 48% of people in prisons at the time BEFORE some of marijuana was legalized, it was a long time ago I read it...but I still believe it was the truth.  As far as how many may have been dealers or those just in possession of [some], I am not sure.  You could probably Google to find out some information on it.  There may be prison stats to find even.  

EDIT:  I remember more about the articles, it said 48% of people in prison were in prison because of non-violent marijuana charges.  

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37 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Picture a bucket of water, top to bottom full of holes and you only have a hand full of corks to stop the leaks..

They have submarines, boats, drones, planes, mules, tunnels, and many other ways to get them into the country..That's just  the southern border, because they come in from the northern border as well.. Which if you haven't seen the northern border..It looks like someone mowed the lawn in between the U.S and Canada to show the border..

the-entire-length-of-the-us-canada-borde

_92386654_gettyimages-57169787.jpg

We were up there one time and on a lake that had the border going through it..We were in Canada but could cross over back and forth all day long and not a soul was around to say anything..

Let alone you have people that make drugs here..Then there is the prescription type drugs that people sell..

 

Oh my gah.  Drones?  I've heard of the tunnels.  Then we need to find all the tunnels and hire more corks to catch the drones and find the tunnels.

This is a disease and 90% of people are in prison because they took one of these drugs we can't get rid of, but the prison system is archaic and inhumane as it is.  People should not be put in cages.  And, then their whole life may as well be ruined - can't get a job, eventually loose all your personal relationships not just with a significant other but perhaps even your parents or your kids.  Something needs to change but I believe it's going to take those who are professionally trained in the social work areas to figure it all out as well as ways to get rid of the drugs.  Perhaps once people are out of prison, let's say living on UBI, then the buildings need to be under surveillance to make sure no drugs are getting in to where the people are living and that no one in a UBI building is using.  They might loose a bit of a right to privacy but it's a better life than prison or out of prison with no job and/or considered un-hireable because of a prison record.   Also, once a person finally does stay sober and gets a job, perhaps give some incentives to keep that job.    

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55 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

The prison system is archaic and especially the law that says someone who commits a crime is a slave, this absolutely should not be tolerated in any country.  Some people are mentally or emotionally ill and that is the reason they take drugs as well as it's a disease.  It's a mysterious disease but it's still a disease.   

You are really hung up on the whole prison slavery thing.. Prisoners in the US are not slaves. They are not forced to do work. They are not beaten daily ny the guards, their families are not raped or sold. Stop comparing them. 

 

56 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Most states have some kind of state legalized marijuana now but I am not sure exactly what all the laws are for all 50 states, so I really should speak only about California.  Marijuana is legalized here now; however, if you want to be a grower you have to be licensed.  

The 48% of people in prisons at the time BEFORE some of marijuana was legalized, it was a long time ago I read it...but I still believe it was the truth.  As far as how many may have been dealers or those just in possession of [some], I am not sure.  You could probably Google to find out some information on it.  There may be prison stats to find even.  

11 states have legalized pot.. Mind you, it is still illegal federally. AFAIK federal law trumps state laws. 

21 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

People should not be put in cages.  

What do you suggest we do with violent criminals? Drug dealers? Rapists? Just put them in therapy? 

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10 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

What do you suggest we do with violent criminals? Drug dealers? Rapists? Just put them in therapy? 

I edited my other post because I remembered BEFORE marijuana was legalized in some states or let me say California, the stats said 48% of people currently in prison were in prison for NON-VIOLENT marijuana charges.  What the breakdown of all this is, I don't know.  But, I'd say, yes social workers need to talk to people to find out what exactly is going on.  

As far as violent crimes, it's also in the stats 90% or more of those were committed while intoxicated on either illegal drugs/alcohol or both.  

How many people do you really believe are violent or have violent tendencies?  I'd say that it's a fairly small amount of people if they are sober.  

14 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

You are really hung up on the whole prison slavery thing.. Prisoners in the US are not slaves. They are not forced to do work. They are not beaten daily ny the guards, their families are not r-word or sold. Stop comparing them. 

As far as this above, I have every right to believe what I believe regarding this law of someone who commits a crime is a slave and I will not change my mind about it.  Stop telling others what to do or believe, thank you.  

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23 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:
1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

The prison system is archaic and especially the law that says someone who commits a crime is a slave, this absolutely should not be tolerated in any country.  Some people are mentally or emotionally ill and that is the reason they take drugs as well as it's a disease.  It's a mysterious disease but it's still a disease.   

You are really hung up on the whole prison slavery thing.. Prisoners in the US are not slaves. They are not forced to do work. They are not beaten daily ny the guards, their families are not raped or sold. Stop comparing them. 

Here's a little more information, Drake (see, I finally spelled your name right)    :)

"The year the Civil War ended, the U.S. amended the Constitution to prohibit slavery and involuntary servitude. But it purposefully left in one big loophole for people convicted of crimes.

The 13th Amendment, ratified in 1865, says: “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.” Scholars, activists and prisoners have linked that exception clause to the rise of a prison system that incarcerates Black people at more than five times the rate of white people, and profits off of their unpaid or underpaid labor."

https://www.history.com/news/13th-amendment-slavery-loophole-jim-crow-prisons

~~~~~~~~~

And...the definition of slavery:

"Slavery is any system in which principles of property law are applied to people, allowing individuals to own, buy and sell other individuals, as a de jure form of property.[1] An enslaved person is unable to withdraw unilaterally from such an arrangement and works without remuneration. Many scholars now use the term chattel slavery to refer to this specific sense of legalized, de jure slavery. In a broader sense, however, the word slavery may also refer to any situation in which an individual is de facto forced to work against their own will. Scholars also use the more generic terms such as unfree labour or forced labour to refer to such situations.[2] However, and especially under slavery in broader senses of the word, slaves may have some rights and protections according to laws or customs."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

 

Edited by Luna Bliss
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