Luna Bliss Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 22 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said: 23 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: https://www.history.com/news/how-the-nazis-were-inspired-by-jim-crow That's something isn't it,Jim Crow laws not being enough for him? Isn't it weird how we always cite Hitler as being so evil when he got his ideas from bigots in the US whose ideas and monuments have not been completely tossed into the mud. The monuments of the Nazi's were taken down ages ago, but we still have not removed all our statues glorifying the egregious practices of slavery and genocide. It's simply an abomination that Indigenous and Black history is not taught in our schools too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 3 hours ago, FairreLilette said: Sad to say, but it's really white protestant supremacy. If people really want to know the truth. About protestants and the Civil War from the internet: When all was said and done, religion formed the backbone of the South in the Civil War. It affirmed the spirituality of the southern church, and it gave the white South its self-proclaimed sacred identity. Just Protestants? Not Catholics too? Only slightly kidding. I do realize the issue. I just happen to go to a LGBT+ church (protestant but non-denominational) that is NOT racist or white supremacist. So it's easy for me to forget that "churches are bad". lulz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said: Very informative, and I love the cited poem in the 2nd one by Langston Hughes, and particularly this one verse within it: He's up to 4 of them now, or maybe more - youtube showed me 4 and I realize I failed to see if there are more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollymews Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 interesting read here. Descendants of confederate military officers talking about the legacies of their forbears as they see it a majority prefer that their ancestors names be removed from public display. That while history can't be undone, their ancestors fought for the wrong cause. That the Union fought for the right cause, and they find it disconcerting that their ancestors are championed by the Union for having fought for values which were then and now anti-ethical to Union values a minority prefer that their ancestors continue to be championed by the Union for a variety of reasons. From personal familial pride to the thought that their ancestor helped to shape what the USA is today for good or bad https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/07/01/rename-confederate-generals-military-bases-341278 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: Isn't it weird how we always cite Hitler as being so evil when he got his ideas from bigots in the US whose ideas and monuments have not been completely tossed into the mud. The monuments of the Nazi's were taken down ages ago, but we still have not removed all our statues glorifying the egregious practices of slavery and genocide. It's simply an abomination that Indigenous and Black history is not taught in our schools too. There is a really good documentary that gives a different perspective of how this nation was born.. It's called, We shall remain.. It's not really in depth but gives a good view and perspective from the other side.. It goes all the way from the mayflower to the second wounded knee.. I think you would really enjoy it.. I only wish they added Lozen in there when they were on the part with Geronimo..She was such a key part of the success they had.. A lot of heroes in this nation are from the perspective of the sides we are on.. When people look at Lincoln they see a great man and a hero.. Looking from an indigenous perspective and the things he did, you'd be hard pressed to find many that see him as a hero and a great man. He was still a leader of the invasion of the west.. There wouldn't really be any Monuments left in DC if we were to start tearing them down that glorify those things. I'm really not going to start rolling on in that area, but just thought perspective is an important thing to consider..I'm sure you have and I'm not trying to show you the way or anything like that..I know you research a lot.. I just sometimes have to say things out loud for myself I guess hehehe Aaaanyways.. I think you would really like this documentary they did of Lozen.. Out of all my Heroes, She is one of the most amazing.. I really think you will enjoy it.. I'll just link it that way it will hopefully go into the next part since i couldn't find the full version..This is also not as in depth, but gives a really good view of her life.. ETA: instead I'll link them all.. Lozen Lozen pt2 Lozen pt3 Lozen pt4 Lozen pt5 Well I'm off to bed..Work has me about as worn out as worn out gets.. hehehe Have a nice night, or day,which ever it is by you.. Edited July 1, 2020 by Ceka Cianci 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 5 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said: Just Protestants? Not Catholics too? Only slightly kidding. I do realize the issue. I just happen to go to a LGBT+ church (protestant but non-denominational) that is NOT racist or white supremacist. So it's easy for me to forget that "churches are bad". lulz Not Catholic, no. This country was founded on Protestantism by the English who were "reforming". Actually, there was a split in the 1600's or so where the English Protestants broke off from the Catholic church because they wanted their clergymen to marry. Catholics remain with celibate priests. This was the main reasons for the split - Protestants at the time wanted married clergy, the Roman Catholic church did not - it wanted celibate priests. It has to do with Puritanical America. You can read the Wiki on it. The Catholics, however, were conquering the South America's, tragically, very tragically. It was Spain on the one side and the English on the other [mostly]. Puritans were dissatisfied with the limited extent of the English Reformation and with the Church of England's toleration of certain practices associated with the Roman Catholic Church. They formed and identified with various religious groups advocating greater purity of worship and doctrine, as well as personal and corporate piety. Puritans adopted a Reformed theology and, in that sense, were Calvinists (as were many of their earlier opponents). In church polity, some advocated separation from all other established Christian denominations in favour of autonomous gathered churches. These Separatist and independent strands of Puritanism became prominent in the 1640s, when the supporters of a presbyterian polity in the Westminster Assembly were unable to forge a new English national church. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puritans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwar Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 25 minutes ago, FairreLilette said: Actually, there was a split in the 1600's or so where the English Protestants broke off from the Catholic church because they wanted their clergymen to marry. 1534. And it was mostly to do with the pope refusing to allow Henry VIII a divorce. But Protestantism had already been on the rise for a while in many parts of Europe, with various kingdoms adopting it for various reasons .. Like Sweden in 1527, which was largely to banish the Catholic clergy and take their land and assets. . . . Carry on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 21 minutes ago, Orwar said: 1534. And it was mostly to do with the pope refusing to allow Henry VIII a divorce. But Protestantism had already been on the rise for a while in many parts of Europe, with various kingdoms adopting it for various reasons .. Like Sweden in 1527, which was largely to banish the Catholic clergy and take their land and assets. . . . Carry on. I've heard some of the Catholic/Protestant "craziness" that went on in Europe in centuries past. The reason it's important to the history of the Civil War and the South, is it was about religious beliefs in owning slaves. Plus, I can only venture to guess they thought of themselves as "righteous" while, in their eyes, indigenous people were "savages". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 21 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said: - After listening to this gentleman, one the recommended videos to play next was this woman who I think gives some good rebuttals to his talk. (for those so inclined, some of the comments below it are insightful too) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) There's always one fool out there willing to push their own people into the gas chamber... And there's always one Nazi out there seeking to hold up that fool and yell out that 'see, they're making it all up; no problem here'... Rather than key in on that one fool, you should consider the masses of people speaking to their lived experience of the opposite. Edited July 2, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: this woman who I think gives some good rebuttals to his talk. This woman doesn't even define white privilege correctly. Between this video you posted and your explanation as to why slaves were thought to feel less pain I'm starting to think there's 'other' reasons you didn't get callbacks on your job apps we discussed, having nothing to do with your ethnic-sounding name. Edited July 2, 2020 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 14 hours ago, Lyssa Greymoon said: Apparently the Confederacy won the Civil War. The War of Northern Aggression, they call it. I'm told it was a stalemate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, FairreLilette said: religious beliefs in owning slaves A couple years back we had a good discussion on Confederate flags here, and I went into one of those deep dives into the past, ending up at some website where photocopies of letters by Confederate soldiers were displayed. They all spoke of God being on their side and that slavery was ordained by God, and so they were on a special mission to win the war and put slaves in their proper place. This is an interesting site discussing religion during Civil War times: https://classroom.synonym.com/religious-factors-of-the-civil-war-12087212.html Edited July 2, 2020 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said: ETA: instead I'll link them all.. (Lozen documentary and the We Shall Remain Series) Thanks...am watching the one about Lozen now. My mother grew up in that area near where Geronimo made his last stand. Love Lucy Lawless, the Xena of years past who narrates, remember her from ages ago and how apropos that she would narrate a series about warrior women. * Found it @ Amazon Prime, and higher quality. The 'We Shall Remain' series looks good, but too expensive to watch now I do wonder if I watched some of it 10 years ago when American Experience was playing on PBS. Edited July 2, 2020 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 7 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said: 9 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: Very informative, and I love the cited poem in the 2nd one by Langston Hughes, and particularly this one verse within it: He's up to 4 of them now, or maybe more - youtube showed me 4 and I realize I failed to see if there are more. He really is an amazing speaker and so perfect for the task he's undertaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 21 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said: There's always one fool out there willing to push their own people into the gas chamber... And there's always one Nazi out there seeking to hold up that fool and yell out that 'see, they're making it all up; no problem here'... Rather than key in on that one fool, you should consider the masses of people speaking to their lived experience of the opposite. The way I understand her, she is pointing out how not to walk into the gas chambers voluntarily by taking on a victim mentality. She along with some others I have posted already, are better examples of what it is to be "woke" as originally defined: "Stay woke became a watch word in parts of the black community for those who were self-aware, questioning the dominant paradigm and striving for something better", the dominant paradigm being that which the masses of people you refer to as holding on to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: The way I understand her, she is pointing out how not to walk into the gas chambers voluntarily by taking on a victim mentality. She along with some others I have posted already, are better examples of what it is to be "woke" as originally defined: "Stay woke became a watch word in parts of the black community for those who were self-aware, questioning the dominant paradigm and striving for something better", the dominant paradigm being that which the masses of people you refer to as holding on to. No, the dominant paradigm has been that Blacks are not oppressed any longer and that we do not have white supremacy in America anymore. To allow this perception to prevail and not confront white supremacy would make them a victim. Fighting the prejudice is reclaiming their power and is making them victims no longer. 1500 confederate statues are coming dooowwwwn, and hopefully the military bases named after white supremacists too... unless trump prevents it, that fool: On Tuesday night, Trump tweeted: “I will Veto the Defense Authorization Bill if the Elizabeth 'Pocahontas' Warren (of all people!) Amendment, which will lead to the renaming (plus other bad things!) of Fort Bragg, Fort Robert E. Lee, and many other Military Bases from which we won Two World Wars, is in the Bill!” Edited July 2, 2020 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 31 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: This woman doesn't even define white privilege correctly. Between this video you posted and your explanation as to why slaves were thought to feel less pain I'm starting to think there's 'other' reasons you didn't get callbacks on your job apps we discussed, having nothing to do with your ethnic-sounding name. She defined it well enough for where I am at but at the same time she pointed out that those with white guilt and yet still feel superior, may have a harder time with being able to recognize that they really are not privileged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: 39 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: This woman doesn't even define white privilege correctly. Between this video you posted and your explanation as to why slaves were thought to feel less pain I'm starting to think there's 'other' reasons you didn't get callbacks on your job apps we discussed, having nothing to do with your ethnic-sounding name. She defined it well enough for where I am at but at the same time she pointed out that those with white guilt and yet still feel superior, may have a harder time with being able to recognize that they really are not privileged. Can you rephrase that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyssa Greymoon Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 58 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: After listening to this gentleman, one the recommended videos to play next was this woman who I think gives some good rebuttals to his talk. The YouTube algorithm knows what you want to see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: No, the dominant paradigm has been that Blacks are not oppressed any longer and that we do not have white supremacy in America anymore. To allow this perception to prevail and not confront it would make them a victim. Fighting the prejudice is reclaiming their power is making them victims no longer. 1500 confederate statues are coming dooowwwwn, and hopefully the military bases named after white supremacists too... unless trump prevents it, that fool: You perhaps misunderstand. The word "woke" is from the black community referring to their own view of the paradigm, not what the rest of the population may or may not think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said: The YouTube algorithm knows what you want to see. Some of like to check out both sides of the controversy, not the just the Luna one. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said: 8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: No, the dominant paradigm has been that Blacks are not oppressed any longer and that we do not have white supremacy in America anymore. To allow this perception to prevail and not confront it would make them a victim. Fighting the prejudice is reclaiming their power is making them victims no longer. 1500 confederate statues are coming dooowwwwn, and hopefully the military bases named after white supremacists too... unless trump prevents it, that fool: You perhaps misunderstand. The word "woke" is from the black community referring to their own view of the paradigm, not what the rest of the population may or may not think. Are you in the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: 1500 confederate statues are coming dooowwwwn, and hopefully the military bases named after white supremacists too... unless trump prevents it, that fool: On Tuesday night, Trump tweeted: “I will Veto the Defense Authorization Bill if the Elizabeth 'Pocahontas' Warren (of all people!) Amendment, which will lead to the renaming (plus other bad things!) of Fort Bragg, Fort Robert E. Lee, and many other Military Bases from which we won Two World Wars, is in the Bill!” I have seriously been wondering whether your main concern here is the actual discrimination of Blacks and other minorities or whether this whole thing is just a convenient piggyback ride to political upheaval and the ushering in of a more socialist state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: 37 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: 1500 confederate statues are coming dooowwwwn, and hopefully the military bases named after white supremacists too... unless trump prevents it, that fool: On Tuesday night, Trump tweeted: “I will Veto the Defense Authorization Bill if the Elizabeth 'Pocahontas' Warren (of all people!) Amendment, which will lead to the renaming (plus other bad things!) of Fort Bragg, Fort Robert E. Lee, and many other Military Bases from which we won Two World Wars, is in the Bill!” I have seriously been wondering whether your main concern here is the actual discrimination of Blacks and other minorities or whether this whole thing is just a convenient piggyback ride to political upheaval and the ushering in of a more socialist state? Ahhh, so now we see your fears...this evil socialism. And all this "complaining" of Blacks is really an effort to usher in a more socialist state and has nothing to do with the fact that we've made them the latrine of America? Your mind was made up from the get-go, from your very first posts. You don't believe people are still prejudiced against Blacks today. You're wrong, and if you talk to the majority of Blacks they will tell you how they've been discriminated against or looked down on, and scientific tests in the Social Sciences prove the bias still exists today, as well as our monuments to white supremacy we are so reluctant to take down or rename. You can dig up all these Youtube exceptions you want, or a minority of Black conservatives, but that doesn't change reality. * You didn't answer me...do you live in the US? Edited July 2, 2020 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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