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17 hours ago, KanryDrago said:

Colonialism has been dead long before anyone now living was born, Those on the left want us to apolgise for things we never did nor believe in I will apologise the day after the left apologise for the 100 million or so that socialism has killed and the billions it plunged into ooverty, I dont believe in colonialism they still believe in socialism despite the evidenece that it leads to poverty, gulags and misery. Why should I apologies for something I dont believe in when they wont apologise for what they do believe in

this is whataboutism

how apology and compensation works

Queen Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God Queen of this Realm and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith; is hardly a socialist.

yet because of the actions of her agents - Ministers of the Crown - Queen Elizabeth has as Head of State apologised for her Ministers actions, and signed orders to effect compensation for numerous peoples within her realms.  The apology and compensation isn't for being colonised. The compensation is because the Ministers actions resulted in denial of rights without due process, due process being afforded to all subjects of the Crown

in the USA situation  by the rule of due process there is no compensation for being enslaved prior to 1865 . US 13th Amendment. There is however a case, at least to answer, for denial of rights without due process since 1865, on a case by case basis

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I can respect BLM for taking on the cops because a lot of groups want the power they have toned down.. But lets not act like the problem they are going after is the real huge problem when we know  it's in the forgotten parts of our cities as well as our reservations..

I just know if we can stop  or at the very least, slow the bleeding where it's bleeding the most,  it's going to help heal a lot of these other problems..

Make hate crimes and hate groups a very serious crime is a vital step to add along with building up programs.  

 

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I want to help them, and this is one place we can develop awareness of their plight and envision solutions.

A lot of solutions have been presented here.  Over-turning qualified immunity is the first step.  And she did offer good solutions too which are have the police have regular mental health check-ups and create a more impartial justice system for a police officer to be tried if the person dies which it's horrible to even have to speak about it but it happened.

If hate crimes and hate groups could be out-lawed and become a very serious offense, qualified immunity needs to be over-turned first.  I have heard only a few speak out about over-turning qualified immunity.  Is that because most feel it cannot be done?  In other words, the government will always be immune and not held liable and there is nothing we can do about it?  

Edited by FairreLilette
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3 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

this is whataboutism

how apology and compensation works

Queen Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God Queen of this Realm and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith; is hardly a socialist.

yet because of the actions of her agents - Ministers of the Crown - Queen Elizabeth has as Head of State apologised for her Ministers actions, and signed orders to effect compensation for numerous peoples within her realms.  The apology and compensation isn't for being colonised. The compensation is because the Ministers actions resulted in denial of rights without due process, due process being afforded to all subjects of the Crown

in the USA situation  by the rule of due process there is no compensation for being enslaved prior to 1865 . US 13th Amendment. There is however a case, at least to answer, for denial of rights without due process since 1865, on a case by case basis

Total drivel because the left aren't asking for government apologies , they are saying I should apologise for things that happened before I was born. They are tarring me with the brush because way back when some people who happened to be the same colour as me did some bad ***** even though I believe that bad ***** to be wrong. This is being demanded by the very same people who then go on to excuse Mao, stalin etc and believe in the same credo. 

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Just now, KanryDrago said:

Total drivel because the left aren't asking for government apologies , they are saying I should apologise for things that happened before I was born. They are tarring me with the brush because way back when some people who happened to be the same colour as me did some bad ***** even though I believe that bad ***** to be wrong. This is being demanded by the very same people who then go on to excuse Mao, stalin etc and believe in the same credo. 

is not about you. Is about the State

that you feel that you are being asked to apologise personally has nothing to do with the purpose of  State Apology and Compensation in cases where this is warranted

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

is not about you. Is about the State

that you feel that you are being asked to apologise personally has nothing to do with the purpose of  State Apology and Compensation in cases where this is warranted

I don't understand what you are saying, Molly.  Why would the Queen apologize to people in the United States?  We won our independence almost one hundred years prior.  

You mean the Queen of England will apologize and compensate black people in the United States for their being enslaved?  

Edited by FairreLilette
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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Make hate crimes and hate groups a very serious crime is a vital step to add along with building up programs.  

 

Hate Crimes are a very serious crime..

Now hate groups, well that is where the water is gonna get really muddy..Because laws like that don't just stop there..Plus it won't just be a law for white supremacists..

Any group will get tagged and put under the microscope and we end up just clogging a system even more than it is already..

Honestly, if we could find a way  for people to move on up, those groups will get even smaller and weaker than they are now..

Let them try to come to an area where they are outnumbered by the people.. They will only become more outnumbered as time goes on and weaker as the clock ticks on by..

Let me show you an example of what I'm saying..

Just a few years back, there was a group of white supremacists that were going to try to take down statues and clutter up banners in Chicano park in San diego, because of the statues coming down of confederates..

Bad idea on their part.. it would be a bad idea just about anywhere..

These guys were lucky that the crowd respected that the police were there..the police probably had to go get a new pair of drawers after that as well..hehehehe

 

Edited by Ceka Cianci
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5 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Hate Crimes are a very serious crime..

Now hate groups, well that is where the water is gonna get really muddy..Because laws like that don't just stop there..Plus it won't just be a law for white supremacists..

Any group will get tagged and put under the microscope and we end up just clogging a system even more than it is already.

I thought hate crimes might be a very serious crime.    

With hate groups, yes the whole idea could back-fire and turn towards POC being accused.  

I was wondering if Neo-Nazi type groups and KKK could be out-lawed and how this could be worded?   

Well, get some sleep, Ceka.  Sorry if this kept you up.  

Lots of steps still to be made.  

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Just now, FairreLilette said:

I don't understand what you are saying, Molly.  Why would the Queen apologize to people in the United States?  We won our independence almost one hundred years prior.  

You mean the Queen of England will apologize and compensate people in the United States?  

no

case by case.  In the New Zealand case, the State (thru the Queen) has apologised and compensated people for the loss of property and denial of rights afforded them by the 1840 Treaty of Waitangi, which afforded the native peoples all the rights of subjects of the Crown

in the USA case, the enslaved people were afforded all rights of US citizens in 1865 13th Amendment. Any abrogation of those rights since by agents of the State are liable

in both countries there is a thing called statute of limitations.  Meaning that cases can't be pursued when the time runs out

in New Zealand, the statute of limitations for these kinds of cases against the State are dated from 1840. To extend the time back to 1840 required acceptance by the people as a body and the political will of the elected representatives

in the USA case to extend the time back to 1865 requires the same acceptance and political will

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1 minute ago, FairreLilette said:

I thought hate crimes might be a very serious crime.    

With hate groups, yes the whole idea could back-fire and turn towards POC being accused.  

I was wondering if Neo-Nazi type groups and KKK could be out-lawed and how this could be worded?   

Well, get some sleep, Ceka.  Sorry if this kept you up.  

Lots of steps still to be made.  

I'm good on sleep now that I'm not gonna go in..I'll take a nap in a bit or something..

Let me kind of say something to put what I'm getting at into more of a perspective..

We have two parties in the country that go head to head with each other all the time..most of the groups like we are talking about will be on one side or the other..

Then you have the rest of the population.. Just looking at the undecided voters alone, they outnumber both the left and the right..now add in the rest of the population that aren't going to vote..Not counting those too young to vote.. That's a lot of people that don't get involved in things until it's time..

They don't want these groups coming to their neighborhoods tearing stuff up and impacting their lives..

We don't just have minority groups that hate racism or hate of any kind.. As much as people hate hearing the word racism because of how much it is said these day's..People hate seeing it even worse.. And more and more are climbing on..

That video I just showed, A lot of those guys that were gonna show up for their little protest to do damage to that park, left their boy's hanging and more than likely seen the crowd and just kept on driving..

That or just said sure, and those guys that were there missed the part where their buddy said, Yea,Right lol..

I know a lot of people of different races ,Friends with so many, dated a lot of people of different races..I pretty much didn't have a choice because my family is the only ones of our kind around..

I can count on one hand how many were so bad that I don't want them anywhere around me.. But those that would stick up for me, I don't have enough fingers and toes to make the count..Even some of my exe's would come out of the woodwork..

Hate groups don't stand a chance when they go up against those people that have come together and put any differences aside in a common bond..

that will scare the hell  out of them seeing their own kind on the other side and more of them..

 

hehehehe

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2 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

We have shown you study after study showing that black people have not achieved equity or equality in the United States - most of those studies conducted by very successful black people

This kind of reminds me of those black people getting convicted by an all white jury!  😐

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i see that Republican politicians of the State of Mississippi have gotten woke

confederate symbol gone from the Mississippi State flag

i like that

 

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2 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Hate Crimes are a very serious crime..

Now hate groups, well that is where the water is gonna get really muddy..Because laws like that don't just stop there..Plus it won't just be a law for white supremacists..

Any group will get tagged and put under the microscope and we end up just clogging a system even more than it is already..

Honestly, if we could find a way  for people to move on up, those groups will get even smaller and weaker than they are now..

Let them try to come to an area where they are outnumbered by the people.. They will only become more outnumbered as time goes on and weaker as the clock ticks on by..

Let me show you an example of what I'm saying..

Just a few years back, there was a group of white supremacists that were going to try to take down statues and clutter up banners in Chicano park in San diego, because of the statues coming down of confederates..

Bad idea on their part.. it would be a bad idea just about anywhere..

These guys were lucky that the crowd respected that the police were there..the police probably had to go get a new pair of drawers after that as well..hehehehe

 

They brought pizza?

Like, “Oh, hey... we’re just sitting here, having a little pizza picnic... as you do... in Chicano Park. Don’t mind us... we’re not planning on tearing any monument down. That’s those other white guys... with the, er... cheese sandwiches. American cheese on Wonder bread. Yeah, those are the racists you’re looking for...” 😂😂😂

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32 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

i see that Republican politicians of the State of Mississippi have gotten woke

confederate symbol gone from the Mississippi State flag

i like that

 

And Mississippi is... well, when other states fail at something, they console themselves by saying, “At least we aren’t Mississippi!”

The fact that they woke up is a huge deal. 

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1 minute ago, Beth Macbain said:

They brought pizza?

Like, “Oh, hey... we’re just sitting here, having a little pizza picnic... as you do... in Chicano Park. Don’t mind us... we’re not planning on tearing any monument down. That’s those other white guys... with the, er... cheese sandwiches. American cheese on Wonder bread. Yeah, those are the racists you’re looking for...” 😂😂😂

OMG this mobs about to bum rush the cops and kill us, lets get out of here!! \o/

Hey bro, Don't forget the Pizza!!

hehehehe

 

I'm still cracking up on how they got left hanging..

I can just picture the other guys  just thinking about Pizza and how they are going to come in and show their stuff..

Then see a crowd around them before they even got to finish lunch, then just kept on going.. Hope them guys make it out ok.. xD

 

My favorite part though was, when they started chanting whatever they were chanting and then the one guy say's, F you, Go Back To Europe.. Then starts naming off the tribes..

This is Apache land!!, This is Chicano land!! this is Mexican land!! and so on,you got it backwards Bro!! This is our land!!

He hit the nail on the head..

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Posted (edited)

There is something I want to put in here..I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but it's on my mind and I just have to say something because I still care about my home town..

I still have friends there..

First I want to say what Chiraq is, or where it came from.. It wasn't something started by Spike Lee from the movie..

In fact that movie is not even really about Chicago, but some old time Greek play, kind of like how they modernized Romeo and Juliette years back..

Spike Lee doesn't even know Chicago..He pretty much just tried to send a ,guns are bad Nkay message, when really the guns are a byproduct of of the situation created by those in power..

Chiraq Is a movement mostly of rappers finding a way out and rapping about their situation and their lives and the war zone they have to survive in and what they have to do to survive there.. How there is these injustices going on a world away on the other side of the ocean for nothing more than oil interests, and our country Drops everything to head all the way over there.. When we have our own worse war zones right here being ignored.. We have our own Iraq going on right here, hence the name Chiraq.

I love this song, but there is something in the video that I caught a long time ago of when they have the people marching.. All these people have lost someone to the violence there..

One woman which you will see in a red T-shirt holding up a picture of her son..

That is a picture of her last son she lost to the violence there.. She had 4 sons and lost them all..Not at the same time but one at a time over the years..

How she is able to even walk today amazes me..

I don't think I would ever recover from losing just one of my boys, but to lose all three.. I can't even come close to imagining what mental and physical state I would be in..

It brings tears to my eyes every time I see her walking with that picture..I honestly can't find the words for how much strength she has..And to think she is not alone is that..

The words to this song and seeing the places I know, for me it's powerful.. The movie message was off  from someone not knowing Chicago, but take what we can get I guess..

If I were to put up real Chicago rappers in here..They'd be removed because of the language and anger in them..

I'm harping on this, because in my heart I know this is where we need to direct our attention most.. where the hurt is most..Our cities..

I still love mine where i was born..

 

ETA: Ok, I'm going to give you all a break and stop now.. I really don't think there is much more i could add to today.. hehehehe

Edited by Ceka Cianci
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8 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I'm harping on this, because in my heart I know this is where we need to direct our attention most.. where the hurt is most..Our cities..

I am pretty out of touch here... I’m old and tragically unhip to a lot of things. I know, of course, about the violence in Chicago, and I know how parts of the city, the projects, have basically been abandoned. I never heard it called Chiraq, but I get it now.

Do you recommend a place for me to start learning? A website, book, blog? Or should I just hit google and keep going? 

 

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1 minute ago, Beth Macbain said:

I am pretty out of touch here... I’m old and tragically unhip to a lot of things. I know, of course, about the violence in Chicago, and I know how parts of the city, the projects, have basically been abandoned. I never heard it called Chiraq, but I get it now.

Do you recommend a place for me to start learning? A website, book, blog? Or should I just hit google and keep going? 

 

This would be a good place to start, to get a feel for it..

I'll just link the video rather than putting it up and eating up big chunks of a page.. I posted this one in another thread.. there are a few good documentaries just typing in Chiraq on youtube..

If you are not wanting to see the violence, just avoid videos  that have savage in them and any that look like shots of the street..A lot of those are real hits on people..

They track each other by social media nowadays to find out where they are..then they go and thrown down on them and post the videos up.. it's pretty bad..A lot of times they don't even do drive by's anymore..they pull up get out and start running people down shooting.. it's bad..

More than a Bullet

 

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6 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

If you are not wanting to see the violence, just avoid videos  that have savage in them and any that look like shots of the street..A lot of those are real hits on people..

Thanks... I’ll start there.

I also think it’s important to see the violence and not sterilize it. That makes it too easy to dismiss and deny.

I know Louisville is like a smaller version of Chicago. We’re the midway point between there and the Deep South, as well as between Florida and NY for the traffickers (human and drug).

If people don’t see it, they don’t believe it, and that willful obliviousness is part of the problem.

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16 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Thanks... I’ll start there.

I also think it’s important to see the violence and not sterilize it. That makes it too easy to dismiss and deny.

I know Louisville is like a smaller version of Chicago. We’re the midway point between there and the Deep South, as well as between Florida and NY for the traffickers (human and drug).

If people don’t see it, they don’t believe it, and that willful obliviousness is part of the problem.

I know there are a lot of similarities in other cities and areas.. it is important not to leave them out and I don't want them left out..

But to be honest, I just don't feel right  trying to say what their problems are, because each place has it's own version.. It's why I was saying, Spike Lee doesn't really know Chicago..just like I don't know NY or LA enough to say..

I do know Chicago so that's where I place my flag and speak about..

I know the south also, but not the deep deep south..In fact  My Father and Uncles were escorted out of Culman Alabama years back when their truck broke down there one time..

They had to come back when the truck motor was finished that they got overcharged for..a cab took them to the airport then someone had to drive down and pick them up because of no planes going here from there or something like that..

The cab driver said to them, Culman Alabama looks at it this way..Culman doesn't  have race problems, because if you don't let other races in,you don't have any problems.. hehehehe

I haven't been through there  and don't know if it's the same there today or not.. But my father said, he thought they were done and over with when the police showed up..but then so did a cab right after.. They were glad to get out of there..

Crazy times..hehehe

 

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13 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Crazy times..hehehe

Well, crap, Ceka, I just finished that documentary and I’m absolutely guilty of exactly what they were talking about at the end - seeing all the media and thinking everything is just awful on the south side and not seeing any of the good that’s going on.

I like to think I know better and that I’m all sorts of woke, but I have miles to go and volumes to learn. 

One of the things that struck me most was the bit about black people not being able to make mistakes and fail at things without it destroying and defining their entire lives. Take two kids in the same circumstances, say... something stupid like stealing a car... but one is white and the other black, and the paths laid out in front of them a very different.

I’ve got a lot to think about now. Thank you for waking me up a little bit more.

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9 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Well, crap, Ceka, I just finished that documentary and I’m absolutely guilty of exactly what they were talking about at the end - seeing all the media and thinking everything is just awful on the south side and not seeing any of the good that’s going on.

I like to think I know better and that I’m all sorts of woke, but I have miles to go and volumes to learn. 

One of the things that struck me most was the bit about black people not being able to make mistakes and fail at things without it destroying and defining their entire lives. Take two kids in the same circumstances, say... something stupid like stealing a car... but one is white and the other black, and the paths laid out in front of them a very different.

I’ve got a lot to think about now. Thank you for waking me up a little bit more.

The crazy thing is, it starts in school..

One goes to see the principal while the other gets sent to a cop and that gets recorded so that by the time they are in high school their record has been long since started..

All the gangs that you see in all the cities today..That started in Chicago.

A big part of why there are so many micro gangs today is, years back they busted all the top gang leaders, which in turn caused a kind of chaos and splintering and fights for power.

The rules went out the window and rather than parts of town, you have blocks and more killing of each other more than ever.

Nobody can blame the people on the outside for the information fed to them..you can only blame the irresponsible messengers which are the media, which do have their agendas..

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On 6/26/2020 at 10:46 AM, FairreLilette said:

An electoral collage elects the president of the United States and much favoritism comes into play this way

Yeah, same in Argentina.  We could have 10 candidates to vote.. but only 2 are highlighted.  Maybe it's the same like here: the world government is the one that  select and pays in advance those awful people that say are my patriots like me.  But no.  Selling my country since the get go.

So much potential... 😞 

It is a really really long talk.. Not simple.

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On 6/28/2020 at 12:03 AM, KanryDrago said:

Colonialism has been dead long before anyone now living was born,

You serious? 

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6 hours ago, Mollymews said:

is not about you. Is about the State

that you feel that you are being asked to apologise personally has nothing to do with the purpose of  State Apology and Compensation in cases where this is warranted

If compensation takes a material form and is derived from state funds, would that not be personal to taxpayers? 

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