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39 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

Then you have a flawed system. How you deal with that depends on the tools at your disposal. In a democracy, an obvious tool is the vote.

We have more than a vote in the United States.  We, the people, enact the laws, not the government.  The government is voted in to carry out those laws enacted by the people.  We can add new laws.  New laws are added by first starting a petition and if the petition receives enough signatures, it then becomes a proposed law.  The proposed law is called a proposition and it is put on the ballot for the people to vote either yes or no.   I believe laws need to be enacted to achieve racial equality and equal liberty and justice for all here in America.

Our Congress is considered "the people" too; however, Congress can enact federal laws.   We, the people, enact laws first through petitions and then proposals in our state and then the proposals are placed on the ballots for voting by the people.   It's a "process".   Federal and state laws differ.  

This is a "just saying" post.  

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43 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'll never understand the misperception of some who call themselves Christians --  arguing about what Jesus is and dissing or even murdering those who have different perceptions of what he was instead of actually transforming one's own life into something better -- to be like Jesus as much as possible -- to know love.

In my meditation group, formed by Yogananda, Jesus has a place among other great teachers on our altar. The primary focus is on transforming the self, attempting to know a more inclusive reality, into being a more loving person, and using this change to make the world a better place.

I really got into Allen watts and really still love to listen to him.. He hit home on a lot of things for me as well that helped a lot..

There is one place, and I believe it may even be in one of those videos where he talks about people seeing the bible as if it was handed down from angels to man from god as an infallible guide..

He say's in so many words..I don't think a loving god would send down an infallibly manual that would eventually rot our brains and keep us from thinking for ourselves. Pretty much limit us from our true potential, is how I took it..Something that would keep us from truly learning about ourselves to pretty much be programmed really..

We are programmed by others rather than becoming the coders we should be..

I like to think I deprogrammed myself, but i still see a lot of things where I need work..But each thing I re-code is an eye opening experience..

There is no avoiding suffering because it is part of life..We can only learn how to deal with it the best we can or not learn how..

there is suffering in just about every feeling,just at different levels..Even love is suffering..

Someone said, and i can't remember who..A person with 50 loves has 50 woes..That made a lot of sense to me, because I suffer just thinking about my children getting hurt..

It's just a level of suffering.. it comes with being a mother and honestly, I don't think we all have it.. I don't think my old mother had it..if she did,it wasn't like mine..She was too much into herself..

In my eyes becoming more in touch with a bigger picture of this vast universe and seeing so much in common on so many levels..the man made books to control us,just stopped making any sort of sense other than to manipulate our minds and control us and our direction..

so many things point to it..

Christians taking the old testament to heart  to manipulate others are not true Christians.. Because those were not their covenants..

There is the old covenants written for the Jews, which is the old testament..The new covenant written for all, The new testament..

Now those that do that are either really ignorant, or they are really trying to manipulate.. it's one of the other, because it sure isn't because they are well educated..

hehehe

I went though my period of arguing with people over those things.. It never worked out well and became more just frustrating and felt more distracting and defeating myself than anything..

As long as they stay out of my children's heads, we won't collide too much. That's my main concern and part of my woes..hehehehe

 

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33 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:
1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

but I think you have been repeatedly doing the very thing you are accusing me of (taking the knowledge of one's own country and applying it inappropriately to another country).

I've been sharing my perspective. If that feels inappropriate to you, well, not much I can do about it. But you have been posing questions to me about my country, so I answered them.

I am glad you shared your perspective. I've asked about your country because I'm attempting to fully understand where you are coming from. I thought perhaps there was something particular to your culture or your country that was causing you to repeatedly side with conservative elements in my society who basically don't believe Blacks have anything to complain about and believe the bigoted Trump is the US savior. So I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, trying to understand if you just weren't seeing the whole picture of the US -- all the past 400 plus years and the prejudice today that influence the conflict we are now in. Problems which the following 2 videos address well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=tkpUyB2xgTM&feature=emb_logo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPVNJgfDwpw

Since you mentioned being in a professional position of helping those less fortunate I especially gave you the benefit of the doubt, not assuming you were a Trumpie bigot. And now, I'm wondering if you do understand a bit better that Blacks truly do have some disadvantages here in the US and so might wish us well in our quest to remedy the situation.

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15 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

And now, I'm wondering if you do understand a bit better that Blacks truly do have some disadvantages here in the US and so might wish us well in our quest to remedy the situation.

All people of color needs remedying.  I think it will begin to happen this decade.  We are gearing towards better programs and less police in the greater Los Angeles area as of just last month.  We have much to fix here - health care and education are two big ones.  There are others to tackle.  I'm not a supporter of Trump but he did state something about a 1 trillion dollar infrastructure bill to help American's have jobs and to rebuild America.  The Democrats took it further and raised it to a 1.5 trillion dollar infrastructure bill to help America rebuild, improve and have jobs.   This is a good start but lots more to be done.  What it all will entail, we don't know yet.  Coronavirus is complicating things but some things have already changed.  

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58 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I'm not a supporter of Trump but he did state something about a 1 trillion dollar infrastructure bill to help American's have jobs and to rebuild America.  The Democrats took it further and raised it to a 1.5 trillion dollar infrastructure bill to help America rebuild, improve and have jobs.   This is a good start but lots more to be done.  What it all will entail, we don't know yet.

The Republicans don't like the bill as is, and it's likely Trump will veto it. I fear it won't be passed unless it funnels more to his wealthy cronies and does little for the poor  :(     However, maybe with Biden there is more hope...

https://www.eenews.net/stories/1063489725

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/house-passes-democrats-dollar15-trillion-infrastructure-plan-over-gop-objections/ar-BB16dUHP

 

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1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I really got into Allen watts and really still love to listen to him.. He hit home on a lot of things for me as well that helped a lot..

I love Watts, and agree with all your points.
Like you said, it's pretty useless to argue with those who see religion as a set of rules or laws to adhere to, and only feel others are okay if they adhere to the same rules too. If only one of those rules was to 'be a more loving person' this method of spiritual development might work to a degree though!

I remember the lure of wanting a safe and rigid path to follow, as a teenager seeking for some way to make sense of life, and settling upon Christianity for awhile. I remember liking the feeling of safety having finally discovered "the answer"...lol.  This came crashing down when I met a therapist from India who, upon asking, told me she was not a Christian. I had to decide if I would allow her to help me despite this unwelcome discovery. I ended up allowing her assistance, and began to see the limited box I had placed the world in by thinking only Christianity had value. And all this came from my own mind, as I really didn't know about how the New Testament came to replace the old laws in the Old Testament.

What I like about intense meditation, if done in a disciplined way, is that the rigid rules which make up our perceptions (our stereotypes, our conditioning placed into our mind via socialization), begin to fall away. It can be a little scary to realize how brainwashed one is, how "programmed", as you said, and to have these patterns, these grooves or ruts we guide our life with, fall away. It can be shocking to discover just what we thought and experienced as reality, is simply not. Even on a physical level.

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1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

The Republicans don't like the bill as is, and it's likely Trump will veto it. I fear it won't be passed unless it funnels more to his wealthy cronies and does little for the poor  :(     However, maybe with Biden there is more hope...

Actually, it was the Trump administration that came up with the bill BUT at a different price of 1 trillion.  The House Democrats have passed the bill at 1.5 trillion.  So, it's basically "the price".  It's party politics.  They will haggle over the price a little but what else is new.   lol  And, some even say 2 trillion may be needed.   Part of what the Trump administration will not like is the "saving" of the U.S. Postal Service.  Republicans believe the U.S. Postal Service should go private.  So, they are haggling.   Plus, the Democrats have added more things aside from adding the part about the U.S. Postal Service.  Republicans are pretty adamant about the U.S. Postal Service going private though from my understanding of it all and that would be vetoed immediately if it includes the U.S. Postal Service which the Democratic version does.  But, this bill does involve people too, however, schools, hospitals, and other things...so it's relative to this thread.   It's just not finalized yet as to what it will an entail.  So, I guess this bill is what is known as "in it's infancy".  

The Trump administration is preparing a nearly $1 trillion infrastructure proposal as part of its push to spur the world’s largest economy back to life, according to people familiar with the plan.

A preliminary version being prepared by the Department of Transportation would reserve most of the money for traditional infrastructure work, like roads and bridges, but would also set aside funds for 5G wireless infrastructure and rural broadband, the people said.
 
President Donald Trump is scheduled to discuss rural broadband access at a White House event on Thursday.
 

 

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25 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I love Watts, and agree with all your points.
Like you said, it's pretty useless to argue with those who see religion as a set of rules or laws to adhere to, and only feel others are okay if they adhere to the same rules too. If only one of those rules was to 'be a more loving person' this method of spiritual development might work to a degree though!

I remember the lure of wanting a safe and rigid path to follow, as a teenager seeking for some way to make sense of life, and settling upon Christianity for awhile. I remember liking the feeling of safety having finally discovered "the answer"...lol.  This came crashing down when I met a therapist from India who, upon asking, told me she was not a Christian. I had to decide if I would allow her to help me despite this unwelcome discovery. I ended up allowing her assistance, and began to see the limited box I had placed the world in by thinking only Christianity had value. And all this came from my own mind, as I really didn't know about how the New Testament came to replace the old laws in the Old Testament.

What I like about intense meditation, if done in a disciplined way, is that the rigid rules which make up our perceptions (our stereotypes, our conditioning placed into our mind via socialization), begin to fall away. It can be a little scary to realize how brainwashed one is, how "programmed", as you said, and to have these patterns, these grooves or ruts we guide our life with, fall away. It can be shocking to discover just what we thought and experienced as reality, is simply not. Even on a physical level.

Yea, It's finding out you've been lied to all your life.. That can be a dangerous thing, really it is a dangerous thing.. There are two roads at that point.. The self destructive one or the healing one..

I was on the self destructive one for a good little bit, which was a terrible place to be..I was hate filled and angry looking to fight..I hated myself  and others, didn't care what happened to me, who i was with and wallowing in self pity and just a whole bunch of bad..

It took a really violent act from some people, to change my course..which after learning the things I have, had to happen to set me in the right direction..

I don't look at that as a gift or a message given to me that that happened to me..I see it as a collision that happened because I put myself in the path of it..

That didn't mean I didn't want justice, because I did and got it.. It just means I was out of control and heading for a crash somewhere.. i could learn from it or just keep going down the wrong road..

I'm just glad things lined up and I wisened up.. Because running around with hate inside,is like being a junkie hooked on poison, always running around looking for a fix..

I don't give power to hate of any kind anymore, no matter it's intentions.. There are better ways to deal with things, In my eyes..

If someone wants to hate me for whatever ,they can.. They just best hope they don't touch me at all or any of my children and we'll be just fine.. hehehehe

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25 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Molly, stated that the particular date she was using for some kind of redemption was about 1885

1865 when the US 13th Amendment was ratified.  In the context of US black people and if restitution/reparations were ever to be considered then this could be a starting date

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1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:
 I explained in my post why he would veto it is because the Republicans want the United States Postal Service to go private.  Do you even know what private means?

I missed whatever it is you folks are debating... so this is a general question.

Is that general GOP notion or just Trump through?

Because the Post Service is a weird entity. It has always been self funded. It doesn't get any budget. Trump alone seems to not realize that.

That said, they might still want to make it private in order to try to plunder it - but we already have UPS and FedEx as private versions of the Postal Service. So it's not as if it has an exclusive domain to the territory.

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12 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

causing you to repeatedly side with conservative elements in my society who basically don't believe Blacks have anything to complain about and believe the bigoted Trump is the US savior.

I don't label myself as any one ideology, in fact I pick apart any ideology that crosses my path, as I like to understand things before I support them.

Your cause has left me with a distinctly mixed message, from reading the replies of various people on this thread, not just yourself, so I'll remain on the fence. 

As for it's application where I live, I stand by everything I have said.

 

12 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I especially gave you the benefit of the doubt, not assuming you were a Trumpie bigot.

You seem to have very strong views on your current President. If he bothers you, I believe there is an election coming up. 

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15 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

That's great, sounds like you have many peaceful means to effect change.

Peace itself is a concept of privilege. People who have a means of redress or already have the rights they want for themselves can afford to resort to peace and to demand of those they downpress.

The downpressed know that what matters is not peace, but equal rights and justice.

 

This speaks to many things - but chief in the minds of many these days is the question 'why do they riot?'

And this is where that peace thing comes in...

Because when you ignore every single peaceful means that a downpressed populations tries to use to bring an issue to your attention, then out of desperation they will act... and that action will take a desperate tone rather than a rational one. Thus you end up with even people who do not want or like riots... rioting... because they have nothing left to choose from...

 

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4 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Peace itself is a concept of privilege. People who have a means of redress or already have the rights they want for themselves can afford to resort to peace and to demand of those they downpress.

The downpressed know that what matters is not peace, but equal rights and justice.

 

This speaks to many things - but chief in the minds of many these days is the question 'why do they riot?'

And this is where that peace thing comes in...

Because when you ignore every single peaceful means that a downpressed populations tries to use to bring an issue to your attention, then out of desperation they will act... and that action will take a desperate tone rather than a rational one. Thus you end up with even people who do not want or like riots... rioting... because they have nothing left to choose from...

 

I can understand that.

My personal opinion is: try peaceful resolutions first, and never take them off the table. Otherwise we lose sight of peace in the violence of the moment, and what happens next?

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3 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

I can understand that.

My personal opinion is: try peaceful resolutions first, and never take them off the table. Otherwise we lose sight of peace in the violence of the moment, and what happens next?

Yes. And that's often what people involved in these things say.

But everything has a boiling point.

Nobody wake up in the morning setting out to have the French Revolution. Not even the French Revolution (which was actually started by the King - he called a congress together to do tax reform and figure out why they had less money than his budget reports said they should have... and he got guillotines... because if you keep refusing to listen, the mob eventually decides you didn't want to keep that head anyway...)

What we have in the USA is 400 years of roughly 12% of our population crying out with a simple very basic demand: treat us as you would want to be treated yourselves... and being soundly ignored at every last turn.

- If you study ethnic conflicts around the world, most of them turn into bloody race wars long before issues get as bad as they are in the USA... It's something of a miracle that we have so little rioting and violence given the context it rests in... because people here are so desperate for peace...

 

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18 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

There are two roads at that point.. The self destructive one or the healing one..

I was on the self destructive one for a good little bit, which was a terrible place to be..I was hate filled and angry looking to fight..I hated myself  and others, didn't care what happened to me, who i was with and wallowing in self pity and just a whole bunch of bad..

It took a really violent act from some people, to change my course..which after learning the things I have, had to happen to set me in the right direction..

I don't look at that as a gift or a message given to me that that happened to me..I see it as a collision that happened because I put myself in the path of it..

I'm glad you were able to emerge from your experience and have a life worth living!

When I think about myself and how I've dealt with difficult places, if I've learned anything through the years it's how to move through the inevitable pain that life brings and not run away emotionally, and in this way feel the pain but not the much greater suffering. There's a big difference between pain and suffering -- suffering comes when you aren't able to face the pain and resolve it emotionally, and the result is either acting out in anger or depression (suffering) which doesn't allow for a high-quality life, to say the least. To go with the flow, just let the pain be there when it comes, move through it without trying to change it -- well that's the key! :) I've always loved Taoism and Wu Wei -- I think Alan Watts speaks to this way of dealing with life frequently in his talks on Eastern Philosophies. 

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7 hours ago, Akane Nacht said:

I'll remain on the fence

I'm glad you're on the fence and not all the way over in the Trumpie battalion. Hold onto that fence tightly though, because if Trumpie continues the world might see what a true fascist with a big army looks like again, and the fallout from those nuclear bombs (whether truly radioactive or the economic kind) might drift your way...

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7 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

I missed whatever it is you folks are debating... so this is a general question.

Is that general GOP notion or just Trump through?

Because the Post Service is a weird entity. It has always been self funded. It doesn't get any budget. Trump alone seems to not realize that.

That said, they might still want to make it private in order to try to plunder it - but we already have UPS and FedEx as private versions of the Postal Service. So it's not as if it has an exclusive domain to the territory.

It’s a Republican thing, They hate anything the government does that works.

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7 hours ago, Akane Nacht said:

As for it's application where I live, I stand by everything I have said.

So standing by what you said related to Chinese Privilege not being a reality in your country means you believe there is no prejudice there, no valid grievance by the 25% of minorities (Indian, Malay, and others) who are not Chinese, and that this movement by those claiming there is any kind "Chinese Privilege" enjoyed by the 75% majority is pretty much crazy?

I found a good article by Sangeetha Thanapal, the young Indian woman who first brought up the notion of Chinese Privilege in Singapore. In it she claims "We constantly think about and cater to Chinese people, as they have institutionalized power."
https://www.boundary2.org/2015/03/chinese-privilege-gender-and-intersectionality-in-singapore-a-conversation-between-adeline-koh-and-sangeetha-thanapal/#twelfth

Thanapal says:
"I define Chinese privilege similarly as White privilege, again by analogy rather than wholesale transference of one distinct historical context to another. White privilege is invisible and normal to those who have it, which makes it hard to discuss because people rarely see how they are being privileged. It goes beyond advantages people enjoy because of their race. It is also the unearned power the system confers by virtue of your race alone. It is a set of institutional benefits, with greater access to power and resources and opportunity, that are closed off to those who do not have it. In the same vein, these advantages are bestowed upon Chinese Singaporeans, regardless of any other intersectional identity they carry. By virtue of being Chinese in Singapore, they start life on a higher place in the scale as compared to minorities. They are the beneficiaries of a system of racial superiority, which is why when I talk about the country I call it a Chinese Supremacist state."

Another author claims Chinese Privilege is a more recent creation, and speaks of the PAP government, a center-right government run primarily by the Chinese. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Action_Party 

Referring to Chinese Privilege in Singapore Saharudin says:
"Its inception can be located from the late 1970s onwards, when the party sought to ‘re-Asianise’ Singapore. This agenda shift has been attributed to several issues: the PAP’s fear of ‘Westernisation’, its then ‘poor’ electoral performances, and Lee Kuan Yew’s newfound appreciation for Confucianism and the Mandarin language. Other factors include the political demise of left-wing Chinese-educated groups and the economic reforms of Deng Xiaoping’s China.

This period of ‘Asianisation’ saw the PAP-government promote a self-fashioned form of ‘Chineseness’ via policies that, intentionally or not, favoured, privileged, and valorised Chinese-Singaporeans. According to distinguished scholars like Lily Zubaidah Rahim, Michael Barr, and Terence Chong, state-sanctioned ‘Chineseness’ emphasised paternalism, elitism, apoliticism, fluency in Mandarin, a deference to authority, and the Confucian Junzi ideal (one whose ‘humane’, ‘benevolent’, and ‘righteous’ conduct makes them exemplary).

To cultivate such values, the PAP-government launched the Special Assistance Plan in 1979, turning Chinese-medium schools into well-funded, elite monocultural institutions. Yet, special aid did not extend to Malay- and Tamil-stream schools. Moreover, throughout the 1980s and 1990s, numerous Confucianist-oriented campaigns were championed nation-wide, like ‘Speak Mandarin’, ‘Confucian Ethics’, ‘Asian Values’, and ‘Shared Values’. This left little space for non-Chinese voices and narratives."

https://www.newmandala.org/brief-history-chinese-privilege-singapore/

Anyway, I'm not totally sure what to make of all this, in terms of comparisons between the US and Singapore. It certainly seems like minority people experience quite a lot of disadvantage in Singapore, but it has never reached the severe form as in the US where we fought a war over the right to enslave minorities and erected statues to commemorate our supposed victory over them. How it all plays out in today's terms though, could be very similar.

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7 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

I missed whatever it is you folks are debating... so this is a general question.

Is that general GOP notion or just Trump through?

Because the Post Service is a weird entity. It has always been self funded. It doesn't get any budget. Trump alone seems to not realize that.

That said, they might still want to make it private in order to try to plunder it - but we already have UPS and FedEx as private versions of the Postal Service. So it's not as if it has an exclusive domain to the territory.

I'd say it's not coming from Trump but his economic adviser who is Larry Kudlow and Kudlow's economic team though Trump being a businessman may very well agree with Kudlow.  But, you hit the nail on the head, IF the United States Postal Service goes private, it can then issue stock just as UPS and FedEx do.  

The Trump administration (not Trump alone) came up with the 1 trillion dollar infrastructure bill.  The Democrats countered that by rising it to a 1.5 trillion dollar infrastructure bill but also included the "saving" of the United States Postal Service in the revised Democratic bill.  The revised bill has won approval of the House as of yesterday.  Trump and the Republicans have already said they believe the United States Postal Service should go private when the Democrats wanted funding for the U.S. Postal Service included in the CARES Act (the CARES act was the first stimulus due to coronavirus).  Trump would not sign the CARES Act *if* it included funding for the U.S. Postal Service.   So, the funding for the U.S. Postal Service was taken out and then Trump signed the CARES Act.  

And, that's all I know right now.  It's an involved bill but it will includes jobs, building up rural areas, schools, hospitals, all kinds of things are proposed.  Some are even saying a 2 trillion infrastructure bill may be needed.

Just for the listening audience (aka Silent Mistwalker) who thinks it's funny to help people, the infrastructure bill is not related to the HEROES Act which is the next proposed stimulus due to coronavirus.  

 

Edited by FairreLilette
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16 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

But, you hit the nail on the head, IF the United States Postal Service goes private, it can then issue stock just as UPS and FedEx do.  

Yes, they will have more control of where the profits go...to the top cronies and not to the less-wealthy who actually need an income boost.

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Interesting article with research backup, describing why it's so difficult to get people to 'become woke' and recognize their privilege. I haven't checked out the study in depth but it looks credible:

"It turns out, white privilege may endure not because white Americans uniformly hold racist beliefs about others, but more likely is based on their beliefs about themselves. When people are "faced with evidence that their group benefits from privilege," the study's authors write, they not only fail to take responsibility for such benefits, but find those claims "threatening" and even "claim hardships to manage this threat." Essentially, white people may accept that "group-level inequity" exists but deny that they personally benefit from that privilege in order to protect their own self-conception."

https://www.mic.com/articles/122149/new-study-explains-the-denial-of-white-privilege

 

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