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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I consider myself a pacifist too and don't condone violence.  But in many cases pacifists are simply those who have not been abused enough to know they too would become violent if they walked a mile in the shoes of those committing violent acts during protests.

Yes, I know.  Looking through histories past is horrible and that even today, post civil rights, is taking a freaking long time for betterment and equality.  

I was just looking up the word "civil", as many whites believed POC were uncivilized.  Looking at the word "commonwealth" made me pause.  Commonwealth?  That's an English or European belief of some kind.  I think blacks were not seen as beneficial to the commonwealth and this is/was a major cause of systemic racism.  Whites benefit the commonwealth more.   The WASP culture was based upon cordiality as one of it's main core beliefs but I'd venture to guess it was the commonwealth also.  

CIVIL
of, relating to, or consisting of citizens:civil life; civil society.
 
of the commonwealth or state:civil affairs.
 
of citizens in their ordinary capacity, or of the ordinary life and affairs of citizens, as distinguished from military and ecclesiastical life and affairs.
 
of the citizen as an individual:civil liberty.
befitting a citizen:a civil duty.
 
of, or in a condition of, social order or organized government; civilized:civil peoples.
adhering to the norms of polite social intercourse; not deficient in common courtesy:After their disagreement, their relations were civil though not cordial.
marked by benevolence:He was a very civil sort, and we liked him immediately.
 
(of divisions of time) legally recognized in the ordinary affairs of life:the civil year.
of or relating to civil law.
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This graphic, which I saw over the road at VVO, distinguishes between the political and the non-political quite well, I think  

Why it can feel hard to talk about racial inequality, and why you should do it anyway.... So, anyway, as i mentioned in a couple of other threads, the company I work for gave us a paid day off in

Racism is defined as: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. You can't change the definition to

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Words fail me...actually seeing the kids prefer Whiteness in the doll test has more of an impact than simply studying the tests:

 

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I was just looking up the word "civil", as many whites believed POC were uncivilized.  Looking at the word "commonwealth" made me pause.  Commonwealth?  That's an English or European belief of some kind.  I think blacks were not seen as beneficial to the commonwealth and this is/was a major cause of systemic racism.  Whites benefit the commonwealth more. 

The way Blacks were most useful to the commonwealth was as slaves, as these slaves provided free labor. Having free labor to work in the slave-owners business increased their profits immensely. They didn't have to pay their 'employees' anything beyond room and board.  This is the entire reason slavery developed here, to work the fields (King Cotton) so the business owners could rake in extraordinary profit.

Most people had somewhat of a conscience though, so the only way to justify enslaving others was to label them as subhuman, as uncivilized, and most importantly as very, very different from the superior, newly created 'White race'. Biblical philosophy, conveniently interpreted by slave-owners, came into play too in order to help prop up the notion that slavery was ordained by God.

Commonwealth is defined as:

NOUN
  1. an independent country or community, especially a democratic republic.
    • an aggregate or grouping of countries or other bodies.
      "a union or commonwealth of democratic, self-governing countries"
    • a community or organization of shared interests in a nonpolitical field.
      "the Christian commonwealth'
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19 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

lol

I tried to keep my lineage PURE and did not fall for you underground forces attempting corruption! . But my poor daughter  succumbed and married a Native and now I have a half-Native grandchild.  My lineage has been corrupted!!   :) 

Oh, It's not just us..It's a United Seksay front  from all side.. We got'em surrounded and they don't even know what hit'em until it's too late, as we're loving out the hate..  ;)

hehehehe

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Biblical philosophy, conveniently interpreted by slave-owners, came into play too in order to help prop up the notion that slavery was ordained by God.

This is also why slavery faced so much trouble anywhere the slaves were literate.

The USA conveniently had very few African born slaves (after the early years). So it could keep people illiterate and then just tell them what the Bible said.

In the Caribbean it was the other way around. Too many African born slaves who came there already well read. Some even having read more authentic versions of the Bible from Ethiopia, or having read the Torah (also Ethiopia) or Quran. But even if new to the Bible, they were literate - educated men and women of Africa. So they could see right there in the book that the stories took place in THEIR homeland, that the Messiah was one of theirs, and that Revelations mentioned the title of one of their noble families (Lion of Judah, the title of Ethiopian Emperors going back to the days of King Solomon - is mentioned in Revelations) - which denotes that the author was either a Black man or educated by a Black man.

And of course if they'd been to or come from the East side of Africa they'd been raised knowing that both the Cross and the Ark of the Covenant are claimed to be in Ethiopia.

Christianity was no stranger to Africa - it's just that the version there had never once been under Roman rule. It was close enough in form to recognize, but different enough for them to see the slavemaster's version as an attempt to control them.

So Christianity became a source of insurrection in the islands. The slavemasters kept having to import American preachers to try and 'undo the damage' of local preachers... an effort that continues to this day...

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

more authentic versions of the Bible from Ethiopia, or having read the Torah (also Ethiopia) or Quran. But even if new to the Bible, they were literate - educated men and women of Africa. So they could see right there in the book that the stories took place in THEIR homeland, that the Messiah was one of theirs, and that Revelations mentioned the title of one of their noble families (Lion of Judah, the title of Ethiopian Emperors going back to the days of King Solomon - is mentioned in Revelations) - which denotes that the author was either a Black man or educated by a Black man.

I have heard some of this, that the earliest known writings of the Bible are Ethiopian and that Christ came out of Ethiopia.   

I'm also wondering if the colonial slave owners took the Sabbath Day Commandment as to where they got their idea of slaves..as the commandment goes more or less 'you shall do no work and neither thy maid-servant nor man-servant, nor thy oxen shall do work'.    

But, still, it's a very twisted interpretation to mean "slaves".  Although the Hebrews were slaves in the OT.  This is not a good reason to justify having slaves.  

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I have heard some of this, that the earliest known writings of the Bible are Ethiopian and that Christ came out of Ethiopia.

Obvious European churches will disagree and we'd have to leave that debate to the religious scholars.

So take my point like this: The Africans would have had a very different idea of the same story, and would have looked at the European one and felt it was propaganda. Doesn't matter here who is right - just that both would have already had a pre-existing opinion hardening them against the other side's story.

There ARE rules for how to treat your slave in the OLD Testament. I'm not sure if they come before or after the exodus from Egypt but I believe they are in the book titled Exodus.

- and this relates back to how Evangelical movements warp things. They take OLD testament rules and have them overule the NEW Testament teachings of Yeshua (Jesus).

 

Imagine if we made a law that said "the speed limit here is 25 miles an hour" and then next year we made a law that said "we are changing the speed limit to 35 miles and hour, the old speed limit's covenant of contract has been completed and served it's purpose, the new limit shall now henceforth be 35 miles an hour"

- and then you as a cop, gave me a ticket for driving 31 miles an hour on that road, arguing that the law said 25 and you felt that was better than the 35... Even as you wore a necklace with the 'logo' of the town council that was used the day they passed the 35-mile law...

The judge would probably make you pay my court fees...

BUT that is EXACTLY how they justified slavery and how all these folks that keep wanting the post up the 10-commandments everywhere justify what they're doing.

 

Because I'm sure some right-winger will bring it up, I will bring it up first:

Yes Ethiopia had a form of slavery in the country right up into the 1930s when Haile Selassie (known as Ras Tafari before he was crowned) took power. He tried to abolish it right away, but the nobles refused him until after the failed second invasion by Italy. After this he had consolidated enough power to make it law. The nation had been a Feudal system before this which meant he lacked central authority - different states merely swore fealty and had to offer service of troops to the crown but not obey it's laws. After the invasion he was able to make it a nation and enact laws. So why slavery? Because Ethiopia had long been a tri-religious unified empire. It was originally Jewish, then brought in Christianity when, I believe; the Apostle Simon arrived, then later Islam. Selassie actually came to power because the Imperial house had always been ruled by the top Christian descendant of Solomon (originally the top Jewish descendant) - but a Muslim got the crown before Selassie, so they pushed the guy out in a brief civil war and crowned Ras Tafari instead.

But when it was a feudal empire of basically a series of united small kingdoms - each such kingdom had a lot of ability to do as it wanted. And being split across 3 faiths without any central law protecting minority groups - a lot of room for abuse.

Having been more worldly aware, Selassie knew of the African Diaspora's plight, and was keenly aware of the absurdity of one of the last places to have slavery being the only African nation to have never been colonized. So it was a core part of goal to end it (it's in the autobiography that he wrote during the middle of the Italian invasion. That he'd ended it, but been unsuccessful in getting his mandate to be obeyed).

Sadly modern Ethiopia, after the communists took power in the 1980s (remember all that 'starving Ethiopians' stuff - it was because the communists destroyed the agriculture system. We all sent aid there, but that aid was basically used to prop up the communists), has fallen back into a system of ethnic conflict and oppression, even under it's post-communist regime... The royal family - the living descendants of the ancient Israeli King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba? They now live in exile in the USA.

 

As a footnote, there is one African nation that still has multi-generational chattel slavery of Black Africans. Mauritania - the Arab population holds the black population in a form of slavery identical to that once practiced in the USA. In fact many African Americans actually come from there. It's considered an ally of the USA because they basically put out a letter saying they opposed Bin Ladin... and then did nothing else... It's also a nation that highly restricts anyone visiting...

Edited by Pussycat Catnap
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6 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Obvious European churches will disagree and we'd have to leave that debate to the religious scholars.

There are some articles to find on the internet.  This one with all the Bible verses about Ethiopia cannot be denied.   I'll copy and paste some below plus the link.  This is just for those interested in looking it up.  It's very interesting.   Ethiopia has the world's oldest "Bible" also plus other things.  

Here's a bit about some of the Ethiopian "verses".  

Then were the king's scribes called at that time in the third month, that [is], the month Sivan, on the three and twentieth [day] thereof; and it was written according to all that Mordecai commanded unto the Jews, and to the lieutenants, and the deputies and rulers of the provinces which [are] from India unto Ethiopia, an hundred twenty and seven provinces, unto every province according to the writing thereof, and unto every people after their language, and to the Jews according to their writing, and according to their language.

Job 28:19

The topaz of Ethiopia shall not equal it, neither shall it be valued with pure gold.

Psalms 68:31

Princes shall come out of Egypt; Ethiopia shall soon stretch out her hands unto God.

Psalms 87:4

I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me: behold Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia; this [man] was born there.

Isaiah 18:1

Woe to the land shadowing with wings, which [is] beyond the rivers of Ethiopia:

Isaiah 20:3

And the LORD said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years [for] a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia;

 

https://sarata.com/bible/verses/about/ethiopia.html

 

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2 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

There are some articles to find on the internet.  This one with all the Bible verses about Ethiopia cannot be denied.

Yeah. What I meant was more about scholars would debate the differences in the Bibles.

The Western Bibles traces a history from 'original writings' to the 300 A.D. 'consolidation' forward through the Catholic church and then into the Protestant or Orthodox churches.

The Ethiopian Bible would go from the original writings all the way to the middle ages when they merged in with the Egyptian Coptics who were a branch off from the Romans - at which time they merged in some of the influences of the Roman Bible, but they then follow their own path again.

So there are likely dramatic differences in translations.

Also, the Ethiopians make two claims that are rather 'intense':

1. They claim to have the original Ark of the Covenant that was lost during the life of King Solomon. They claim they have it since the night when King Solomon's son through an affair with the Queen of Sheba left Israel after a visit there, and priests in the Temple noticed Solomon was having 'relations' with a pagan woman, so stole the Ark and met up with his son Menelik in the desert - forcing the son to flee when he realized his father would likely blame him for the theft. Since that day, Ethiopia has kept the Ark in a temple at, I believe, Axum. Curiously enough the Vatican agrees with them on this point, but the rest of the world believe the Ark was lost to history.

2. They claim to have the Cross. It's on display in Mescal Square. No one else in the world believes this claim is true. But they've been claiming it for the past 1,600 years.

 

- I only made this whole point just to note that... Christianity has a LONG history in Africa, but it's also a very different history... and African born slaves would have known the African version, not the European one...

ps: While it matters to me, as a Rasta; to see these two points as true - it doesn't matter to this conversation whether they are true or myths - all that matters here is that folks in Africa would have them as the context for their understanding of the religion. As in; you would have heard that those people in Ethiopia had this religion about a traveling carpenter rabbi who was the savior, and the Ethiopians claimed to have physical proof... and then these guys that captured you and made you a slave - claimed to follow the same religion, a religion the Ethiopians had told you made you the chosen people, not the guy who was enslaving you and saying he was...

- Thus why in The Caribbean the slavers showing up with Bibles backfired...

 

Meanwhile, because the Bible is a big book that spans such a long arc of 'mythic history' - you can selectively pull from it if you deny your listener the ability to read it for themselves... so the preacher on US soil could just quote any random part that made it look like you should obey the slavemaster... and then go to the white church and quote other parts and tell them it was why they were better... as long as both sides failed to read the New Testament AND the parts you quote; it was an effective tool of control.

 

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13 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

However, I did read that becoming too Westernized is a concern by some in Singapore, so it seems likely skin-tone issues apart from the division of classes could come into play there ?

Not sure what exactly you are referring to here. "Westernization" has good points and bad. The Western ideas most are skeptical about at the moment tend to be those that conflict with our largely conservative values, respect for authority and the common good of the community. 

I've noticed some Western countries (*cough* America, UK) can sometimes view other non-Western countries through their own lens and think "They must be having the same social issues as us" and try to superimpose that image over what they see. Be cautious about that.  

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15 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

I've noticed some Western countries (*cough* America, UK) can sometimes view other non-Western countries through their own lens and think "They must be having the same social issues as us" and try to superimpose that image over what they see. Be cautious about that.  

Everyone does that.

We, all of us, can only judge anything we encounter through the filters of that which we already know.

It's really frustrating sometimes when you suddenly realize your assumptions are getting in the way of seeing something rightly...

 

One of the best things I did for myself was to live in a country that had a radically different ethnicity that I was used to, nothing in common with me culturally, and a totally alien language.
- It helped me to really get a grip on my assumptions about what was 'normal' and what actually was...

One of the problems with the world as a whole is how few members of humanity have this opportunity. It was fine "back in the old days" when so few traveled... on the other hand it wasn't because things like slavery and colonialism would not have worked if folks had more understanding of each other... but... I guess I should say 'before we had regular cross cultural contact' we had less opportunity to 'get it wrong' about someone we met or something we dealt with.

Our ability to judge situations is designed for an ape that spends half it's life hiding in a tree away from a lion and the other half in the middle of the pond hiding from the same lion... and we knew the same 5... oops 4 because George just got eaten... people all our lives...

Now we're an ape that pokes plastic buttons and stares at colored lights to communicate with other apes on the other side of the planet... but physically we're still in that tree watching George get eaten by that lion...

 

 

 

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On 6/25/2020 at 11:49 PM, FairreLilette said:

The North East is very racist.

The North East of what, the country, cali? Be more specific. As someone who lives in the North East of the US, i can say it is very much NOT racist. We dont give a damn what skin color you have. The rich crap on everyone equally. ;)

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Yeah. What I meant was more about scholars would debate the differences in the Bibles.

The Western Bibles traces a history from 'original writings' to the 300 A.D. 'consolidation' forward through the Catholic church and then into the Protestant or Orthodox churches.

They already have debated and came up with a lot of "interpretations".  There are many versions of the protestant Bible and many, many words they cannot agree on the meaning of.   I'd venture to guess it's been tampered with too for greed or power.  

My Mother was Catholic of Polish immigrants during World War I.  My Mom married a Protestant who later became an agnostic.  I left the Catholic church early and choose non-denominational Christianity for a long time here in California.   My mother and sisters left Catholicism at the same time I did when I was 10.   Since my father was Protestant, I never understood why we had to go to church but my Dad didn't but there were actual real reasons I wanted to leave; the nuns were frankly mean.  I did not find love there.  So, I made my decision and told my Mom I didn't want to be a part of the Catholic church any more when I was young.  It ended up, my Mom and sisters left it too.  Me and sisters later drifted towards Protestantism.  Now, I consider myself a Christian and Jesus loves me no matter where I am; God is far bigger than a building.  

I bring up my families past for a reason though, my Mom believed only the Catholic Bible, the Douay-Rheims translated from the latin vulgate version was the only appropriate scripture.  Even though my Mom was a very liberal soul, she could not believe any of the Protestant bibles were accurate.  

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11 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

There are some articles to find on the internet.  This one with all the Bible verses about Ethiopia cannot be denied.   I'll copy and paste some below plus the link.  This is just for those interested in looking it up.  It's very interesting.   Ethiopia has the world's oldest "Bible" also plus other things.  

Here's a bit about some of the Ethiopian "verses".  

Then were the king's scribes called at that time in the third month, that [is], the month Sivan, on the three and twentieth [day] thereof; and it was written according to all that Mordecai commanded unto the Jews, and to the lieutenants, and the deputies and rulers of the provinces which [are] from India unto Ethiopia, an hundred twenty and seven provinces, unto every province according to the writing thereof, and unto every people after their language, and to the Jews according to their writing, and according to their language.

Job 28:19

The topaz of Ethiopia shall not equal it, neither shall it be valued with pure gold.

Psalms 68:31

Princes shall come out of Egypt; Ethiopia shall soon stretch out her hands unto God.

Psalms 87:4

I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me: behold Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia; this [man] was born there.

Isaiah 18:1

Woe to the land shadowing with wings, which [is] beyond the rivers of Ethiopia:

Isaiah 20:3

And the LORD said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years [for] a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia;

 

https://sarata.com/bible/verses/about/ethiopia.html

 

A real easy way to see how much the bible has been messed with, just look at the evolution  from country to country  of Lucifer and Satan since the very beginning.. The U.S. alone has a few versions of them.

Also there is a theory about the gap of Jesus in the bible.. That during that gap where he was 18 to 30 he went off and practiced Buddhism..

He was visited by three wise men from the orient when he was born.. So they say.. But there is a place where they say he is buried in Asia..

If you look at the way he taught, it lines up a lot with Buddhism.. Certain things have been tweaked and mistranslated with how we see words said today..

here is a good example of just how our filler words today made big adjustments on how we read the bible and it's translations today..

We were supposed to become more powerful in our own minds rather than manipulated by other men.. It was about becoming a god like him..sit with him not next to him.

He said I am A son of god,not I am THE son of god.. Where we were taught, he is THE son of god..

If you think about what he went through right before the sacrifice and even during it..all that pain and suffering and then look what Buddhism teaches.. in my eyes,it would take a true Buddhist to willfully take the beating or death he knew was coming..

anyways here is an example of what I am talking about..there is a larger version of the video I'll link under the video..

I'm not saying he was a Buddhist, But I'm saying his teaching was more lined up with them than what we are taught today in churches.

I did a lot of research when I started to fall out of my faith..because it's really hard to unbelieve something that you believed from the depths of your heart..One of the hardest periods of my life.. I've learned that western religions are about behavior control and control of your mind, where more eastern are not and more of controlling your own mind and behavior.

Now, I'm not trying to shake and rattle anyone's beliefs or anything like that and really I'm just skimming on the surface anyways from all the research I did for myself for what I needed for me to cope.. But just looking at where the big translation came from with King James's version alone, gave me more than a enough good reason for pause, In my eyes..

 

either way,the videos if anything are a very interesting thing to listen to even if nobody takes them to heart..

Alan Watts - Jesus, His Religion

 

 

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

But just looking at where the big translation came from with King James's version alone, gave me more than a enough good reason for pause, In my eyes..

 

The King James version came out after the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible which was translated from the latin Vulgate.  It was a crime in England at the time to have a Catholic Bible, so the King James came about because of this.

I see many similarities in religions, so I'm not surprised you do too.  

But, it's interesting in the Buddhist's belief of happiness and how to obtain it and how it correlates to the United States Constitution with it's wording of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  The pursuit of happiness certainly sounds like it has foundations in the Buddhist religion.  

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21 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Christianity was no stranger to Africa - it's just that the version there had never once been under Roman rule. It was close enough in form to recognize, but different enough for them to see the slavemaster's version as an attempt to control them.

So Christianity became a source of insurrection in the islands. The slavemasters kept having to import American preachers to try and 'undo the damage' of local preachers... an effort that continues to this day...

This is an interesting distinction you've drawn between slaves who already had a Biblical foundation due to Christianity in Africa vs slaves who had no previous knowledge of the Bible. It makes sense that those who had a Biblical background when captured as slaves would more readily rebel against the distorted Christianity used to justify continued enslavement in America. I spent a little time learning about the Great Jamaican Slave Revolt of 1831–32. Of course here in the US we weren't even taught much about the History of Slaves in our own country, much less about slaves in the Caribbean.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptist_War#:~:text=The Baptist War%2C also known as the Christmas,to 60%2C000 of the 300%2C000 slaves in Jamaica.
As an aside, I had been wondering who these free Blacks were that earlier slavemasters encountered upon arrival, and if some of them came from escaping slavery in the Caribbean, as well as from French settlements in the New Orleans area?

Anyway, I don't know why I continue to be shocked and angry at the way humans justify their selfishness with bizarre theories of how righteous their made-up theories are, but if you want to see an abundance of this in its most laughable state one needs to look no further than the relgious justification Whites came up with to allow, and even glorify, slavery! Here's one I came across last night:

"The emergence of colonies in the Americas and the need to find labourers saw Europeans turn their attention to Africa with some arguing that the Transatlantic Slave Trade would enable Africans, especially the 'Mohammedans', to come into contact with Christianity and 'civilisation' in the Americas, albeit as slaves. It was even argued that the favourable trade winds from Africa to the Americas were evidence of this providential design."

Well how convenient -- the Slave Trade will enable Christians to civilize and convert those heathens to the one true way, Christianity, and the favorable trade winds from Africa to the Americas provided evidence from God this should occur! lol

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1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

If you look at the way he taught, it lines up a lot with Buddhism.. Certain things have been tweaked and mistranslated with how we see words said today..

We were supposed to become more powerful in our own minds rather than manipulated by other men.. 

I'm not saying he was a Buddhist, But I'm saying his teaching was more lined up with them than what we are taught today in churches.

I've learned that western religions are about behavior control and control of your mind, where more eastern are not and more of controlling your own mind and behavior.

I'll never understand the misperception of some who call themselves Christians --  arguing about what Jesus is and dissing or even murdering those who have different perceptions of what he was instead of actually transforming one's own life into something better -- to be like Jesus as much as possible -- to know love.

In my meditation group, formed by Yogananda, Jesus has a place among other great teachers on our altar. The primary focus is on transforming the self, attempting to know a more inclusive reality, into being a more loving person, and using this change to make the world a better place.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Akane Nacht said:
On 7/3/2020 at 9:16 AM, Luna Bliss said:

However, I did read that becoming too Westernized is a concern by some in Singapore, so it seems likely skin-tone issues apart from the division of classes could come into play there ?

Not sure what exactly you are referring to here. "Westernization" has good points and bad. The Western ideas most are skeptical about at the moment tend to be those that conflict with our largely conservative values, respect for authority and the common good of the community. 

I've noticed some Western countries (*cough* America, UK) can sometimes view other non-Western countries through their own lens and think "They must be having the same social issues as us" and try to superimpose that image over what they see. Be cautious about that.  

I may be painting your country and some of its issues with my Western eyes somewhat (not sure, as I keep reading other Singaporeans who agree with my perception), but I think you have been repeatedly doing the very thing you are accusing me of (taking the knowledge of one's own country and applying it inappropriately to another country).

I think you are confusing issues in your country related to accusations of "Chinese Privilege" with the very different and more severe issues we have here with our racial problems and our efforts to get Whites to understand how they have benefitted from an advantage for centuries, up to this very day, and our efforts to bring more equality to People Of Color.   With all that has been presented here in this thread, do you agree we have a different sort of case here in America (a much more severe one, at the very least) and that our accusations regarding the advantaged position Whites have enjoyed in this country are justified?

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11 hours ago, Akane Nacht said:

The Western ideas most are skeptical about at the moment tend to be those that conflict with our largely conservative values, respect for authority and the common good of the community. 

If the authorities in a country are not looking out for the common good though, should we respect these authorities?  

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2 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

They already have debated and came up with a lot of "interpretations".  There are many versions of the protestant Bible and many, many words they cannot agree on the meaning of.   I'd venture to guess it's been tampered with too for greed or power. 

Nod.

Anyway, the entire tangent about Bibles and Ethiopia and so on was just that - a tangent. To show that religion can be a tool not just of oppression but also resistance.

It's otherwise a massive sidetrack from the purpose of this thread though.

 

BUT... some folks might consider looking into Black churches and I hope this tangent helps them understand some of why Black Churches can seem to be preaching in aid of human rights (with the frustrating exception of LGBTQ issues) while white churches are often preaching against human rights.

 

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1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

The King James version came out after the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible which was translated from the latin Vulgate.  It was a crime in England at the time to have a Catholic Bible, so the King James came about because of this.

I see many similarities in religions, so I'm not surprised you do too.  

But, it's interesting in the Buddhist's belief of happiness and how to obtain it and how it correlates to the United States Constitution with it's wording of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  The pursuit of happiness certainly sounds like it has foundations in the Buddhist religion.  

That is just one glimpse I had out of many that were turning my head.. When I was falling out of belief, that's what I call it anyways.. I felt a huge empty lost feeling and went in search of something to fill this huge gap in my life.. I knew it could not be a religion or i would fall right back into the same trap.. This is when truth and as fact as I could find over everything became so important to me..

I studied religions and philosophies and their histories to death.. once i learned how to strip away inspirations and manipulations written and things that could be considered gossip or grape vine in them all, I started to see things in a much cleaner light.. Things become more common ground in the writings of most all of them..

If you look at the bible and see how much of it is from visions of a guy or a dream that came to someone vs something that someone recalled that actually happens, in not just the world but the universe..It gives a whole other perspective..

The most selfless and freeing and what felt like honest and true I could find was not a religion.. i mean many may call it a religion, but it's not, is Buddhism.. Not the western spirituality version..But the heart of it why it came about..

if you look at what the man said and what he was trying to do, and not the people exaggerating, saying flowers bloomed in his footsteps as he walked as a child.. it lines up with many truth and facts in our universe.. He wasn't about spirituality or supreme beings or miracles or following anyone else.. He just wanted to find a way to become enlightened to deal with the suffering that comes with life.. At first he put himself through all kinds of suffering to see if he could find a way through suffering, but then realized, it's not the way..

Lining yourself up with the universe and breaking yourself down to what you really are and getting out of our own heads..removing ego and clutter and actually seeing the true reality rather than the concocted realities we are given by others.. Deprogramming ourselves to what we truly are.. I am my foot as I am the sun. I am one person impacting an others life as I am an asteroid in the belt crashing into another..

I am the universe checking myself out from a different perspectives..

omg why did that asteroid hit the earth years and years back? no reason.. Teacher teacher omg why is there so much pain and suffering in the world? No reason..

I'm not a Buddhist myself.. But it was like an asteroid bumping into me setting me off into my own direction..

What I ended up with after everything is finding out I am a god..Not a god over anyone else but myself..That when I really look at everything from a crumb of dirt to a blade of grass to a tree, there is me..I am the universe as you are the universe as they are the universe.. We are the universe..

How foolish we are to have differences over something as insignificant for instances as, skin color or really many things, when we are gods, just shows our ignorance of what we being rather than what we truly are..

this is why the pale blue dot really hits home for a lot of people..they see how truly insignificant those many things are in comparison to the reality of the universe.

From this thread alone I can see myself needing to get back out of my own head..it's easy to slip..

I've went off the rails and got side tracked again and I apologize..I don't know why i do that.. it's probably more of something I need to work on as well.. hehehehe

I just know that falling out of faith even though it was the hardest thing at the time..it was the best thing that could have happened..

 

As far as the constitution goes..It's said there was influence from the Iroquois Confederacy and their constitution which they were living under..

I haven't really researched that too much..Just mainly heard about it and did a little reading on it, nothing in depth..

I'm still having my tea and waking up slowly today..so if i come off sounding too in my own head, sorry about that..I need to get back to my basics I guess..it's really all well intended and hope it comes off that way..

 

Anyways,while I'm at it and got so much into the universe..I gonna put this song here too..it was something I found back then and feel like sharing..

Enjoy 😃

Ceka ❤️

 

Edited by Ceka Cianci
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25 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

but I think you have been repeatedly doing the very thing you are accusing me of (taking the knowledge of one's own country and applying it inappropriately to another country).

I've been sharing my perspective. If that feels inappropriate to you, well, not much I can do about it. But you have been posing questions to me about my country, so I answered them.

 

29 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

With all that has been presented here in this thread, do you agree we have a different sort of case here in America (a much more severe one, at the very least) and that our accusations regarding the advantaged position Whites have enjoyed in this country are justified?

I've seen multiple perspectives. I leave it to Americans to decide amongst themselves what is or isn't justified, as you all have to live there, I don't. 

 

28 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

If the authorities in a country are not looking out for the common good though, should we respect these authorities?  

Then you have a flawed system. How you deal with that depends on the tools at your disposal. In a democracy, an obvious tool is the vote.

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39 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

Then you have a flawed system. How you deal with that depends on the tools at your disposal. In a democracy, an obvious tool is the vote.

We have more than a vote in the United States.  We, the people, enact the laws, not the government.  The government is voted in to carry out those laws enacted by the people.  We can add new laws.  New laws are added by first starting a petition and if the petition receives enough signatures, it then becomes a proposed law.  The proposed law is called a proposition and it is put on the ballot for the people to vote either yes or no.   I believe laws need to be enacted to achieve racial equality and equal liberty and justice for all here in America.

Our Congress is considered "the people" too; however, Congress can enact federal laws.   We, the people, enact laws first through petitions and then proposals in our state and then the proposals are placed on the ballots for voting by the people.   It's a "process".   Federal and state laws differ.  

This is a "just saying" post.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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43 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'll never understand the misperception of some who call themselves Christians --  arguing about what Jesus is and dissing or even murdering those who have different perceptions of what he was instead of actually transforming one's own life into something better -- to be like Jesus as much as possible -- to know love.

In my meditation group, formed by Yogananda, Jesus has a place among other great teachers on our altar. The primary focus is on transforming the self, attempting to know a more inclusive reality, into being a more loving person, and using this change to make the world a better place.

I really got into Allen watts and really still love to listen to him.. He hit home on a lot of things for me as well that helped a lot..

There is one place, and I believe it may even be in one of those videos where he talks about people seeing the bible as if it was handed down from angels to man from god as an infallible guide..

He say's in so many words..I don't think a loving god would send down an infallibly manual that would eventually rot our brains and keep us from thinking for ourselves. Pretty much limit us from our true potential, is how I took it..Something that would keep us from truly learning about ourselves to pretty much be programmed really..

We are programmed by others rather than becoming the coders we should be..

I like to think I deprogrammed myself, but i still see a lot of things where I need work..But each thing I re-code is an eye opening experience..

There is no avoiding suffering because it is part of life..We can only learn how to deal with it the best we can or not learn how..

there is suffering in just about every feeling,just at different levels..Even love is suffering..

Someone said, and i can't remember who..A person with 50 loves has 50 woes..That made a lot of sense to me, because I suffer just thinking about my children getting hurt..

It's just a level of suffering.. it comes with being a mother and honestly, I don't think we all have it.. I don't think my old mother had it..if she did,it wasn't like mine..She was too much into herself..

In my eyes becoming more in touch with a bigger picture of this vast universe and seeing so much in common on so many levels..the man made books to control us,just stopped making any sort of sense other than to manipulate our minds and control us and our direction..

so many things point to it..

Christians taking the old testament to heart  to manipulate others are not true Christians.. Because those were not their covenants..

There is the old covenants written for the Jews, which is the old testament..The new covenant written for all, The new testament..

Now those that do that are either really ignorant, or they are really trying to manipulate.. it's one of the other, because it sure isn't because they are well educated..

hehehe

I went though my period of arguing with people over those things.. It never worked out well and became more just frustrating and felt more distracting and defeating myself than anything..

As long as they stay out of my children's heads, we won't collide too much. That's my main concern and part of my woes..hehehehe

 

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33 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:
1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

but I think you have been repeatedly doing the very thing you are accusing me of (taking the knowledge of one's own country and applying it inappropriately to another country).

I've been sharing my perspective. If that feels inappropriate to you, well, not much I can do about it. But you have been posing questions to me about my country, so I answered them.

I am glad you shared your perspective. I've asked about your country because I'm attempting to fully understand where you are coming from. I thought perhaps there was something particular to your culture or your country that was causing you to repeatedly side with conservative elements in my society who basically don't believe Blacks have anything to complain about and believe the bigoted Trump is the US savior. So I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, trying to understand if you just weren't seeing the whole picture of the US -- all the past 400 plus years and the prejudice today that influence the conflict we are now in. Problems which the following 2 videos address well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=tkpUyB2xgTM&feature=emb_logo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPVNJgfDwpw

Since you mentioned being in a professional position of helping those less fortunate I especially gave you the benefit of the doubt, not assuming you were a Trumpie bigot. And now, I'm wondering if you do understand a bit better that Blacks truly do have some disadvantages here in the US and so might wish us well in our quest to remedy the situation.

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