JanuarySwan Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I guess, January, with all your harping on the past as a way to discredit me, that you didn't notice someone brought in their utterly ridiculous theory as to why slaves would be perceived as being able endure more pain, totally bypassing the volumes of History that describe abuse of slaves, and instead ascribing an oh-so-kindly motive for slave owner perceptions. See, there's reason to bring in the past. I'm not trying to discredit you. I glanced over what you posted because I don't want to go over slavery nor Nazism from WWII either. You keep reading things into things that aren't there but I do challenge you to think outside of your box and celebrate the fact many blacks have a very fulfilling life. It's like this country is going to assume that Polish people are communist. Is that true? No. And, that is because all Polish people are different. Some are communist, some are socialist, some are capitalists, some are mixed. Blacks could have those levels as well. Some have tremendous opportunities now and have excelled but that is laughed at too as a token black or special black or something when some of us are just talking about our friends leading average ordinary lives of equality. Again, take Polish people as an example. We aren't all the same but if Bernie Saunders had been chosen as a candidate and become president I am quite sure the headlines would read "that communist". We need to undo the stereotypes and continue in that direction. I'm trying to get you to look at multi-ethnic communities and to not keep pointing out our differences but rather celebrate how we are just a bunch of nice families enjoying our lives together. Edited June 28, 2020 by JanuarySwan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said: ....I do challenge you to think outside of your box and celebrate the fact many blacks have a very fulfilling life. I'm trying to get you to look at multi-ethnic communities and to not keep pointing out our differences but rather celebrate how we are just a bunch of nice families enjoying our lives together. I don't need challenging when I already know that many blacks have a fulfilling life. And I don't see you as simply trying to bring these facts into the discussion with all your prior posts....like I've said before, you have repeatedly tried to diss and minimize those who do not live in your experience. If you want to change your stance to one of simply adding the perspective of those in your personal community doing well, I see no problem with that. Edited June 28, 2020 by Luna Bliss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said: Some have tremendous opportunities now and have excelled but that is laughed at too as a token black or special black or something when some of us are just talking about our friends leading average ordinary lives of equality. You'll have to ask Beth about that as she said it. But I am imagining she believes Kim might not be aware of possible prejudice in her life that could have affected her, and/or aware of prejudice in the world at large. It's not uncommon for people to be unaware of forces in society which affect them, especially when younger. Edited June 28, 2020 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Y'all wanna see where the real deal is and where a system and the local politicians as well as the media have impacted a race of people..I mean literally have failed and ignore them and forgotten about them.. Just go to youtube and type in Chiraq and start scrolling and watching.. while that's going on you'll see the people in those videos saying how it's the same thing in this city and that city and a list of cities.. Then people tell me how much y'all see that kind of racist impact from the systems where you all live.. We're sitting here talking about how someone goes in a store and gets looked at funny or how someone may have to send in 5 more resumes than someone of a different color.. That's racism lite 2.0. There are literally real life war zones in our cities Because of it.. I'm sorry for sounding a bit tired and angry..But in my eyes it feels like we arguing to put a bandaid on a finger scrape. When there is a lethal bullet wound in the back that needs attention right now. Any kind of opportunities have been pulled out of those areas by the politicians, Many of the schools and parks torn down..The media keeps the fire going by over the years making those areas seem useless.. So the problems only get worse and worse.. Honestly, We know where the heart of the problems lie.. If we can stop the major bleeding and death where it is happening most and start to put more opportunity in those areas and more things to do besides join a gang.. things will start to get better and people will start to rise up and be able to help their families rise up and so on.. Someone point to me anywhere in the country where that kind of Sh*t is going on in a white neighborhood.. I can respect BLM for taking on the cops because a lot of groups want the power they have toned down.. But lets not act like the problem they are going after is the real huge problem when we know it's in the forgotten parts of our cities as well as our reservations.. I just know if we can stop or at the very least, slow the bleeding where it's bleeding the most, it's going to help heal a lot of these other problems.. Because the more a people can rise up and out of those terrible situations they are in now and move up into a better life and world, the more positions they take in it, in turn watering down what's been holding us back.. There is a part of our country where people have to become warriors rather than students.. God, Just the life expectancy alone should have anyone that really gives a damn ,on the edge of their seat. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said: Y'all wanna see where the real deal is and where a system and the local politicians as well as the media have impacted a race of people..I mean literally have failed and ignore them and forgotten about them.. Just go to youtube and type in Chiraq and start scrolling and watching.. while that's going on you'll see the people in those videos saying how it's the same thing in this city and that city and a list of cities.. Then people tell me how much y'all see that kind of racist impact from the systems where you all live.. We're sitting here talking about how someone goes in a store and gets looked at funny or how someone may have to send in 5 more resumes than someone of a different color.. That's racism lite 2.0. There are literally real life war zones in our cities Because of it.. I'm sorry for sounding a bit tired and angry..But in my eyes it feels like we arguing to put a bandaid on a finger scrape. When there is a lethal bullet wound in the back that needs attention right now. Any kind of opportunities have been pulled out of those areas by the politicians, Many of the schools and parks torn down..The media keeps the fire going by over the years making those areas seem useless.. So the problems only get worse and worse.. Honestly, We know where the heart of the problems lie.. If we can stop the major bleeding and death where it is happening most and start to put more opportunity in those areas and more things to do besides join a gang.. things will start to get better and people will start to rise up and be able to help their families rise up and so on.. Someone point to me anywhere in the country where that kind of Sh*t is going on in a white neighborhood.. I can respect BLM for taking on the cops because a lot of groups want the power they have toned down.. But lets not act like the problem they are going after is the real huge problem when we know it's in the forgotten parts of our cities as well as our reservations.. I just know if we can stop or at the very least, slow the bleeding where it's bleeding the most, it's going to help heal a lot of these other problems.. Because the more a people can rise up and out of those terrible situations they are in now and move up into a better life and world, the more positions they take in it, in turn watering down what's been holding us back.. There is a part of our country where people have to become warriors rather than students.. God, Just the life expectancy alone should have anyone that really gives a damn ,on the edge of their seat. But Ceka, Kim has a nice life. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanuarySwan Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: You'll have to ask Beth about that as she said it. But I am imagining she believes Kim might not be aware of possible prejudice in her life that could have affected her, and/or aware of prejudice in the world at large. It's not uncommon for people to be unaware of forces in society which affect them, especially when younger. I'm sure Kim knows she's black like I know I'm Polish but we have equal housing, equal jobs...but at the end of the day, we're really all just a bunch of nice families dealing with the ups and downs of life like most in the world do. Kim is gorgeous inside and out and brimming with life. I don't see too much dragging her down. The loss of loved ones is what most of us have to deal with and lean on each other for. I know most Polish presidential candidates would be thought to be secretly communist. I can't change that but I won't let it drag me down either. I just look at those kinds of people as small-minded histrionics. I sometimes think pointing out the differences when multi-cultural communities we don't feel different, is walking on ice. We have a lot of equality now. Low income people of all skin colors and ethnicity, we might want to see what is going on there. But, people still need to stop laughing at the thought that people of POC have a loving and happy life as something that is funny or untrue. It's not right. I see it as putting others down and a poster even said "oh, they are acting white" which is so ridiculous. Holds my hand in my head on blacks acting white. No, just no. Good grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: But I am imagining she believes Kim might not be aware of possible prejudice in her life that could have affected her, and/or aware of prejudice in the world at large. No, I think January hasn't engaged Kim in a discussion about race. I'm not saying Kim doesn't have an awesome life... or Janet, or Ashlyn, or Pussycat, or Ceka, or any black person, but I'm guessing Kim is very aware of the possible prejudices she's encountered. January doesn't want to know that because it would destroy her comfortable worldview. And January, you are the one who brought up "my black friend". I didn't make her the token - you did. Edited June 28, 2020 by Beth Macbain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanuarySwan Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: But Ceka, Kim has a nice life. No, Ceka's post was more balanced and Kim is not the only one who is leading a good life as one of a bunch of nice families. It's not something that needs this put down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanuarySwan Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said: No, I think January hasn't engaged Kim in a discussion about race. I'm not saying Kim doesn't have an awesome life... or Janet, or Ashlyn, or Pussycat, or Ceka, or any black person, but I'm guessing Kim is very aware of the possible prejudices she's encountered. January doesn't want to know that because it would destroy her comfortable worldview. And January, you are the one who brought up "my black friend". I didn't make her the token - you did. Oh, good grief. I spoke about my black boyfriend already. I give up. Edited June 28, 2020 by JanuarySwan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said: But, people still need to stop laughing at the thought that people of POC have a loving and happy life as something that is funny or untrue. It's not right. I see it as putting others down and a poster even said "oh, they are acting white" which is so ridiculous. Holds my hand in my head on blacks acting white. No, just no. Good grief. I don't see anybody laughing at the thought that POC have a loving and happy life. Of course some might believe it doesn't happen. Personally, I had a good Black friend in my Yoga community who seemed great, in fact better than great. But we never discussed any prejudice she might have encountered -- it just never came up. Did she experience prejudice or not? I'll never know most likely. Regarding somebody "acting white", there could be many memes underlying that poster -- I can't see that it always relates to what you're imagining it does. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyssa Greymoon Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said: I give up. There is a god! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 16 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: But Ceka, Kim has a nice life. I have a nice life too and I used to live in what people call Chiraq now.. My father was born on the rez, but grew up where I was born,my grandparents were born on the rez and took Relocation to movee from a worse situation.. Each generation is improving on the one before it a step at a time.. My Children were born in a much better situation that I and my husband were and their Children will be even better off.. Kim may have a good life, which is great..But I'm willing to bet it's because of the steps of generations before her.. I hope her Children have an even better life.. We have to be able to grab those opportunities though to make those things happen.. My whole family owes where we are,because my grandparents seen an opportunity that changed all our futures for the better over time..I'm Grateful for all the generations before me.. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanuarySwan Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said: There is a god! See what I mean about laughing at it. Luna said she isn't but I see she choose the laugh smiley. Whose gonna have the last laugh, probably Kim, if I know her. And, right Beth, Kim is the only black when I've said I lived in a multi-ethnic community. Right, yeah sure. Edited June 28, 2020 by JanuarySwan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said: And, right Beth, Kim is the only black when I've said I lived in a multi-ethnic community. Right, yeah sure. Have you had a conversation about racism with any of them? Kim? Your boyfriend? Some random black guy in your multi-ethnic community? How many conversations have you had? And they all said, "Nope, life is spectacular... never once experienced this racism thing people keep talking about!"? Where is this Utopia? I want to live in a place where racism has been wiped out. We could be neighbors! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said: 24 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said: There is a god! See what I mean about laughing at it. Luna said she isn't but I see she choose the laugh smiley. Whose gonna have the last laugh, probably Kim, if I know her. And, right Beth, Kim is the only black when I've said I lived in a multi-ethnic community. Right, yeah sure. I was simply feeling a sigh of relief (there is a god!) over the fact that it appeared you were going to stop beating a dead horse. No matter what I said it seemed you could not entertain my perspective, and it was time to stop the debate -- way past time really. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 38 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said: I'm not saying Kim doesn't have an awesome life... or Janet, or Ashlyn, or Pussycat, or Ceka, or any black person All these names, thought I was reading a soap opera recap! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: All these names, thought I was reading a soap opera recap! As long as they all stay away from,MY MAN! ....We good. hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 16 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said: As long as they all stay away from,MY MAN! ....We good. hehehe Oh yeahhh? Watchoo gon' do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanuarySwan Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 34 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: No matter what I said it seemed you could not entertain my perspective, and it was time to stop the debate -- way past time really. It was the other way around...plus, you were the one twisting words ridiculously to make your so called perspective. But, knowing Kim, she'll have the last laugh. Kim is like "Hello world, here I am". Open your minds to the fact that there are blacks doing great instead of painting it all one way with a stereotype. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Oh yeahhh? Watchoo gon' do? Like Samual L jackson said in Kingsmen.. I guess this is the part where I'm supposed to tell my evil plan..Then say's, This ain't that kinda movie.. hehehe 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said: 1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said: No matter what I said it seemed you could not entertain my perspective, and it was time to stop the debate -- way past time really. It was the other way around...plus, you were the one twisting words ridiculously to make your so called perspective. But, knowing Kim, she'll have the last laugh. Kim is like "Hello world, here I am". Open your minds to the fact that there are blacks doing great instead of painting it all one way with a stereotype. How many times do I have to say that I know there are Blacks who are doing great? I even gave an example of a personal friend in my Yoga group, a Black woman doing fine. Why do you want to talk about the fact that there are Black people in America doing fine though --- maybe you could go start a thread titled "POC In Shangri-la" or something, and we can discuss your important point there, your point being I guess that there indeed exists happy happy Blacks in America? After all, it is so important that we know there are happy Blacks vs discussing the pressing issues causing pain for millions of other disadvantaged Blacks. I think your point is so important it deserves its own thread, so I am sarcastically handing you your hat - please go start your important thread. * Do you, finally, see my perspective? Is it clear enough for you now? I care about the greater number of Blacks who are suffering. I want to help them, and this is one place we can develop awareness of their plight and envision solutions. I don't give a flying F about your 'happy Blacks', because they don't need us. Edited June 28, 2020 by Luna Bliss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 20 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said: It was the other way around...plus, you were the one twisting words ridiculously to make your so called perspective. But, knowing Kim, she'll have the last laugh. Kim is like "Hello world, here I am". Open your minds to the fact that there are blacks doing great instead of painting it all one way with a stereotype. You've still not answered the question about whether or not you've had the racism conversation with Kim, or anyone else. Why are you avoiding it? I voted for a wonderfully successful black man for POTUS twice, and almost wrote him in for a third time (oh, but would I could). It is absolutely wonderful that there are human beings, regardless of their color, thriving in this world because it ain't easy. Every time I turn around, I see successful black people. They are in my community, my government, my workplace, shopping at my supermarket, living in my complex, on my television... well, they would be if I owned a television... I hear successful black voices during every protest in my city. Charles Booker, Attica Scott, Jecorey Arthur. Are they lying about being happy, successful black people because they acknowledge and actively fight against racism? Or do they not matter to you for that same reason? No one is saying that things have not improved since the 13th Amendment was ratified. No one is saying that things have not improved since the Civil Rights movement. Improvement does not equal equity, or equality. Black people have made huge strides towards being on the same footing as white people in the United States, with little help from the white man. White people had a running head start and black people have still not been able to catch up because that head start was enormous - it was the difference between being a human being and being property. We have shown you study after study showing that black people have not achieved equity or equality in the United States - most of those studies conducted by very successful black people - and you are still on this strange mission to deny these truths. If we were belittling the successful black people of the United States as you seem to think we are, then are you belittling the non-successful black people? Which is more insulting to the black community as a whole, especially when those same successful black people are telling you with their millions of voices that racism is still an issue in the United States of America? Why aren't their voices important to you? Why is it only the successful black people that you personally know - the ones you've seemingly have not had the conversation with about racism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: How many times do I have to say that I know there are Blacks who are doing great? I even gave an example of a personal friend in my Yoga group, a Black woman doing fine. Why do you want to talk about the fact that there are Black people in America doing fine though --- maybe you could go start a thread titled "POC In Shangri-la" or something, and we can discuss your important point there, your point being I guess that there indeed exists happy happy Blacks in America? After all, it is so important that we know there are happy Blacks vs discussing the pressing issues causing pain for millions of disadvantaged Blacks. I think your point is so important it deserves its own thread, so I am sarcastically handing you your hat - please go start your important thread. I think what she is trying to say is, The situation is better today than in like the 50's and 60's.. I would agree that in some places it is and in some places it isn't..In some areas of the system it is and some it isn't.. I know that sounds like a slim and cheap answer, but I could go much deeper if I didn't have to work tonight and go to bed soon.. Honestly, I think we need to open up the basement door a bit more and look at the foundation and start chipping away there.. Laws come into play after the fact, after whatever is done and there is always loopholes that will be found, because they are never Tupperware tight and they don't discourage everyone.. Opportunities and dreams of a better life need to be brought back into those areas, because there is nothing worse than a life without hopes and dreams in it.. There are a lot of fantasy dreams, but I'm talking real dreams.. We'd be amazed at how someone can take just a glimmer of hope and get the most value out of it that had none before and make something of it.. Here is an example from Eddie Murphy that I'm sure a lot can relate to.. If you're starvin and someone throws you a cracker.. You're gonna be like, God Damn That's the best cracker i ever had.. what was that, a Ritz!! They won't just rise up, they'll rise up hard and weathered and strong and taking no Sh*t from anybody..And the Sh*t they do take ,will slide off like a BB to a bullet proof vest.. My father did it and his brothers did it, his sisters did it.. They may have had it harder than whites did, but they still did it and have it better than where they were.. If that keeps happening over and over.. Those rising up will chip away over time at that foundation of what was holding them up.. life is relative in so many ways.. Chop a tree at the trunk and all the branches fall with it.. But then again if you look at a tree's trunk at the first branch system as it grows and rises up..You will see the same pattern branch system in the rest of the tree where it branches and out into the leaves.. Pick a tree and you'll see.. Drop some seeds where we need them and just watch them grow.. ETA: Damn i went and posted more than I wanted to..I'm gonna be tired tonight ..hehehehe Edited June 28, 2020 by Ceka Cianci 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said: ETA: Damn i went and posted more than I wanted to..I'm gonna be tired tonight ..hehehehe Go to sleep! We'll probably still be having the same argument tomorrow when you get off work! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 32 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said: Go to sleep! We'll probably still be having the same argument tomorrow when you get off work! I'm probably just gonna stay home tonight anyways.. They wore me out last week and I've got some things to do around here anyways.. They can go a night without me..startup night is an easy one, so most of them won't even be really doing much before first break. hehehehe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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