Akane Nacht Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 15 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said: You serious? not dead but certainly not what it was. https://www.un.org/dppa/decolonization/nsgt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollymews Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Akane Nacht said: If compensation takes a material form and is derived from state funds, would that not be personal to taxpayers? if the State were to take your neighbour's property and not compensate them for it, and then sell their land to you and then the State used the money to provide a school house for your children instead of making you pay for the schoolhouse thru your taxes, then would you understand that your neighbour would be aggrieved by this ? if the State were to take your property and not compensate you, then would you feel aggrieved ? if you raised this matter of your own property, or your neighbour's property, being confiscated by the State and the State said yes you have a point, but the property is no longer in our possession because we sold it, and the only compensation we the State can offer now is for you and your neighbour to go down to the welfare office for a dole check until you get a job, then would you be aggrieved by this ? edit add i want to add a bit more to this capitalists who are into constitutional rule of law understand these matters far more so than any other type of person. They see these matters as questions of property rights and not as questions of human rights. When treated as questions of property rights then welfare payments are not a factor in the solution. Property has a capital value, a capitalist expects capital compensation not welfare Edited June 29, 2020 by Mollymews 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyssa Greymoon Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 8 hours ago, Akane Nacht said: not dead but certainly not what it was. https://www.un.org/dppa/decolonization/nsgt Thanks, I was unaware that "long before anyone now living was born" meant April 2016. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akane Nacht Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 5 hours ago, Mollymews said: if the State were to take your property and not compensate you, then would you feel aggrieved ? Mine, yes. My great-great-great grandfather's? Nope. I see no point in dwelling on things long done by people I never knew. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akane Nacht Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said: Thanks, I was unaware that "long before anyone now living was born" meant April 2016. I think you misread what I wrote about the period I was referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 16 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said: They may have had it harder than whites did, but they still did it and have it better than where they were.. If that keeps happening over and over.. Those rising up will chip away over time at that foundation of what was holding them up.. life is relative in so many ways.. Chop a tree at the trunk and all the branches fall with it.. But then again if you look at a tree's trunk at the first branch system as it grows and rises up..You will see the same pattern branch system in the rest of the tree where it branches and out into the leaves.. Pick a tree and you'll see.. Drop some seeds where we need them and just watch them grow.. This is so true Ceka all of what you said about generations and parents and each generation getting better as I read through your posts. And, it is better for Blacks and other POC and women too. But, yes, we know there is still work to be done. I am so grateful to have lived in multi-ethnic communities instead of how my grand-parents had to live in Polish town only. I wouldn't want us all divided up like that and be forced to live in just one part of town, Polish town, and pushed into there by the Police. It's exciting today as I write this that Joe Biden wants to pick a Black female Vice Presidential running mate. Mr. Biden has his eye on several female Black Senators from whom he wants to choose from. He's known them awhile. He just doesn't know which one he wants to pick yet as all are worthy to him. I mean this is exciting, the first Black and female Vice President. And, take into account, Joe Biden is old and not in optimum health, so what would that leave. Why, it would leave the first Black female President of the United States. I don't mean to just say Joe Biden is old because Donald Trump is old too. They both have heart conditions. But, still this is incredible news. Joe Biden will not officially announce his Vice Presidential nominee until August the article said, but he has his eye on a few female Black senators and these are the ones he is going to pick from. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 23 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said: 6 hours ago, Mollymews said: if the State were to take your property and not compensate you, then would you feel aggrieved ? Mine, yes. My great-great-great grandfather's? Nope. I see no point in dwelling on things long done by people I never knew. Speaking about America and not your country, how separate are we from the past really? The wealth we have in America was built on the backs of those we stole land from (Natives), and those we enslaved (Blacks), decimating both of their cultures to varying degrees in the process. In other words, we grew as a wealthy nation because we abused them. And all this occurred not so long ago really. Now I'm not saying vast amounts of wealth should be taken from those living today who had nothing to do with the abuse -- I certainly don't want my cozy little cottage I live in to be yanked from me. But I would be willing to pay a few dollars more in taxes to help these cultures that, still today, suffer from what we did to them in the past. You mentioned helping those less fortunate in your community. How did they get that way? Barring major crises and deprivations in present circumstances, the deprivation is passed on through the generations via inadequate parenting. One generation is abused so severely (in America, say Native Americans), that their culture is decimated and they are not able to parent adequately, and so their children are not able to successfully parent the succeeding generations. And so here in the US we have rampant alcoholism on the reservations, and the wrecked, miserable, and wasted lives that accompany this disease. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 30 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: But I would be willing to pay a few dollars more in taxes to help these cultures that, still today, suffer from what we did to them in the past. My family wasn't even here... My mother was British and my father's grandfather came over from Germany... but I absolutely wouldn't mind paying a couple bucks extra in taxes for reparations to both the ADOS community and the Native American community. Now I donate to organizations involved in those communities, but it sure would be grand if our government did the right thing and those organizations became unnecessary because we're actually taking care of ALL our people. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: You mentioned helping those less fortunate in your community. How did they get that way? Barring major crises and deprivations in present circumstances, the deprivation is passed on through the generations via inadequate parenting. One generation is abused so severely (in America, say Native Americans), that their culture is decimated and they are not able to parent adequately, and so their children are not able to successfully parent the succeeding generations. And so here in the US we have rampant alcoholism on the reservations, and the wrecked, miserable, and wasted lives that accompany this disease. I'm not so sure a little bit of tax payer money is enough. Plus, we don't have a lot of tax payer money right now with coronavirus. The world's kind of broke frankly. But, that is neither here nor there with my point really. From things I've heard, there is much depression on the reservations. It's taken their life, their meaning for living from them. It's like living in a cage and people are depressed and then alcoholism can come into play here. In California, the Indian Casinos are doing quite well, and it seems to be something the Native Americans want because it gives them a purpose; it gives them something to do; something to wake up for and be productive at. So, what I am saying is...how much money would a bit of tax payer money be? Would it be enough to have a life? This is really what Native Americans need; a purpose. Maybe it's best to ask them what they need as if they can't make a life out of it, it isn't enough. Here is just a snippet about one of Indian Casinos in California, though California has several. They do quite well. At first they were all Bingo only but they have slots now too. There are Indian Casinos in other states as well. The Pechanga Resort & Casino is a Native American casino on the Pechanga Indian Reservation adjacent to the city of Temecula, California. Pechanga Resort & Casino is the largest casino in the state of California, with over 4,500 slot machines and approximately 200,000 sq ft (19,000 m2) of gaming space.[1][2] Edited June 29, 2020 by FairreLilette 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 13 minutes ago, FairreLilette said: So, what I am saying is...how much money would a bit of tax payer money be? Would it be enough to have a life? This is really what Native Americans need; a purpose. Maybe it's best to ask them what they need as if they can't make a life out of it, it isn't enough. I don't mean just throwing money at them, but rather giving money to programs or causes (some could be government sponsored) that could help them get on their feet and lead better lives. They need resources so they can, for example, receive an education or seek therapy to help overcome the trauma that was caused via decimating their culture. One such program I donate money to is Saint Joseph Indian School: https://www.stjo.org/ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) nevermind, moderator....I change my usage of 'land-rape' to 'land-theft' and my comment went through now. Edited June 29, 2020 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said: 1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said: But I would be willing to pay a few dollars more in taxes to help these cultures that, still today, suffer from what we did to them in the past. My family wasn't even here... My mother was British and my father's grandfather came over from Germany... but I absolutely wouldn't mind paying a couple bucks extra in taxes for reparations to both the ADOS community and the Native American community. Now I donate to organizations involved in those communities, but it sure would be grand if our government did the right thing and those organizations became unnecessary because we're actually taking care of ALL our people. A good point, yes, that even if your personal ancestors were not responsible for land-theft from Natives and enslavement of Blacks it is possible to understand why it can be difficult for abused peoples to climb out of their situation and lead successful lives, and so have sympathy and a desire to assist them. Also, since you mentioned British ancestry...this discussion could be broadened to the effects of colonialism across the globe and how all countries engaged in colonialism benefitted from the abuse of the people they conquered -- this is where the greater wealth came from in countries engaged in colonialism (taking it from those we enslaved or stole from). I have to point out too that even if someone is an immigrant who came to this country in more recent years they are benefitting from the wealth built on land-theft and enslavement via our institutions. Edited June 29, 2020 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 For those not in the US or those who don't understand how slavery issues affect the US even today, this is an informative talk by Jeffery Robinson, American Civil Liberties Union Deputy Legal Director. He describes how the US was founded on white supremacy and white superiority and how it's ingrained in our culture even today, yet so much of the time we don't even notice it. He makes the case for telling the truth about our past, because those who control the narrative of our past control the present (for example, some are attempting to rewrite History by saying the Civil War was not about slavery). I was shocked to discover just how many Confederate monuments there are...over 1500! And many of them were constructed in later years, during specific periods when Whites couldn't deal with Blacks gaining more power in society, causing their racism to hear its ugly head. Basically, in the hearts and minds of many, the Civil War is still raging: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I don't mean just throwing money at them, but rather giving money to programs or causes (some could be government sponsored) that could help them get on their feet and lead better lives. They need resources so they can, for example, receive an education or seek therapy to help overcome the trauma that was caused via decimating their culture. One such program I donate money to is Saint Joseph Indian School: https://www.stjo.org/ Oh, I kind of did think you meant just throwing money at them but all that would be is just a pretty prison. As far as the Indian Casinos though, that is also a way to donate and have a chance to win and relax at a resort as well. The Indian Casinos re-opened in California about a month ago, but just yesterday the governor said he is closing all the bars in California due to Covid-19. However, anyone can go to an Indian Casino and not drink alcohol...so the Indian Casinos may still be open; I'm not sure at this time. But, it's a more direct way to donate and have fun too, and it's way better than the lotteries which some of the money is supposed to go to support schools and programs, but I hear the lotteries fall short of their goal. Edit: I may as not mince words...I hear the lottery officials are corrupt. Schools ask where is the money? Lottery official says "I don't know...". Too much of this world is corrupt. Edited June 29, 2020 by FairreLilette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 35 minutes ago, FairreLilette said: As far as the Indian Casinos though, that is also a way to donate and have a chance to win and relax at a resort as well. I don't know a lot about the Casino's run by Natives, but you have to be careful when evaluating the belief that Casinos benefit Native Americans to a great degree. I've run into more than one person who said Natives have no poverty because they have Casinos which provide immense wealth. Like everything, there's no simple answer and it one has to take into account each individual and each tribe to weigh the benefits: The Myth Of Indian Casino Richeshttps://indiancountrytoday.com/archive/the-myth-of-indian-casino-riches-3H8eP-wHX0Wz0H4WnQjwjA ~~~~~~~ For Native Americans, Tribal Casinos Help And Hurt Helping Or Hurting? For Some Native Americans, Tribal-Casino Gambling Collides With Gambling Addictionhttps://www.stlpublicradio.org/projects/fixed-odds/for-native-americans-tribal-casinos-help-and-hurt/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akane Nacht Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: Speaking about America and not your country, how separate are we from the past really? The wealth we have in America was built on the backs of those we stole land from (Natives), and those we enslaved (Blacks), decimating both of their cultures to varying degrees in the process. In other words, we grew as a wealthy nation because we abused them. And all this occurred not so long ago really. Now I'm not saying vast amounts of wealth should be taken from those living today who had nothing to do with the abuse -- I certainly don't want my cozy little cottage I live in to be yanked from me. But I would be willing to pay a few dollars more in taxes to help these cultures that, still today, suffer from what we did to them in the past. You mentioned helping those less fortunate in your community. How did they get that way? Barring major crises and deprivations in present circumstances, the deprivation is passed on through the generations via inadequate parenting. One generation is abused so severely (in America, say Native Americans), that their culture is decimated and they are not able to parent adequately, and so their children are not able to successfully parent the succeeding generations. And so here in the US we have rampant alcoholism on the reservations, and the wrecked, miserable, and wasted lives that accompany this disease. I'm sure no one would deny you donating to any cause you wish. I suspect people would only take issue with being forced to do so. As for how families fall into poverty, it's complicated. I wouldn't ascribe it to any one cause, but I would be cautious in calling it inadequate parenting. Poor people are not fools nor are they somehow morally damaged. Some of them just made unfortunate choices, or had unfortunate things happen to them through no fault of their own. I should say some of us, as I've had my days of living frugally too. My parents valued education, which is the best single tool for escaping poverty, imo. Teach a man to fish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I don't know a lot about the Casino's run by Natives, but you have to be careful when evaluating the belief that Casinos benefit Native Americans to a great degree. I've run into more than one person who said Natives have no poverty because they have Casinos which provide immense wealth. Like everything, there's no simple answer and it one has to take into account each individual and each tribe to weigh the benefits: The Myth Of Indian Casino Richeshttps://indiancountrytoday.com/archive/the-myth-of-indian-casino-riches-3H8eP-wHX0Wz0H4WnQjwjA ~~~~~~~ For Native Americans, Tribal Casinos Help And Hurt Helping Or Hurting? For Some Native Americans, Tribal-Casino Gambling Collides With Gambling Addictionhttps://www.stlpublicradio.org/projects/fixed-odds/for-native-americans-tribal-casinos-help-and-hurt/ Oh, I don't think they have immense wealth. If they did, the schools would be a lot better off. I said it gives them something to do; a purpose, something to wake up to every morning and be productive at because it's better than the corrupt lottery officials. The lottery falls far short of the money it is supposed to be allotting for schools. And, when the lottery officials are asked 'where is the money for the schools', people get as an answer from the lottery officials which is an 'I don't know'. Of course gambling can be an addiction but so can alcohol but that doesn't mean I am for prohibition against alcohol or gambling because some may be addicted. I am not addicted to gambling. I usually win a few hundred dollars and then go buy antiques in the antique districts. But, going off topic. You should listen to this speech by Charlie Chaplin at the end of the movie "The Great Dictator". Did you ever hear of this movie, "The Great Dictator" written by Charlie Chaplin? It is one incredible movie. The Great Dictator is a 1940 American political satire comedy-drama film written, directed, produced, scored by, and starring British comedian Charlie Chaplin, following the tradition of many of his other films. Having been the only Hollywood filmmaker to continue to make silent films well into the period of sound films, Chaplin made this his first true sound film. Chaplin's film advanced a stirring condemnation of Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, fascism, antisemitism, and the Nazis. At the time of its first release, the United States was still formally at peace with Nazi Germany and neutral during what were the early days of World War II. Chaplin plays both leading roles: a ruthless fascist dictator and a persecuted Jewish barber. The Great Dictator was popular with audiences, becoming Chaplin's most commercially successful film.[4] Modern critics have also praised it as a historically significant film and an important work of satire. In 1997, it was selected by the Library of Congress for preservation in the United States National Film Registry as being "culturally, historically, or aesthetically significant".[5] [6]The Great Dictator was nominated for five Academy Awards – Outstanding Production, Best Actor, Best Writing (Original Screenplay), Best Supporting Actor for Jack Oakie, and Best Music (Original Score). In his 1964 autobiography, Chaplin stated that he could not have made the film if he had known about the true extent of the horrors of the Nazi concentration camps at that time.[7] Edited June 29, 2020 by FairreLilette 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyssa Greymoon Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Beth Macbain said: My family wasn't even here... My mother was British and my father's grandfather came over from Germany... but I absolutely wouldn't mind paying a couple bucks extra in taxes for reparations to both the ADOS community and the Native American community. Now I donate to organizations involved in those communities, but it sure would be grand if our government did the right thing and those organizations became unnecessary because we're actually taking care of ALL our people. Part of my family was here before the Civil War, part came in after it. Some of them may have owned slaves, I'm sure most didn't. But I don't believe that's relevant. As Americans we live in a country largely built on the back of hundreds of years of slave labor. Followed by another hundred years of de facto slavery and segregation, unequal justice and unequal opportunity. That's a debt we all owe regardless of when our ancestors came here, because it didn't stop in 1865, or 1965. It's a debt we can never completely repay, but we have an obligation as a nation to do everything we can. Edited June 29, 2020 by Lyssa Greymoon 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, FairreLilette said: This is so true Ceka all of what you said about generations and parents and each generation getting better as I read through your posts. And, it is better for Blacks and other POC and women too. But, yes, we know there is still work to be done. I am so grateful to have lived in multi-ethnic communities instead of how my grand-parents had to live in Polish town only. I wouldn't want us all divided up like that and be forced to live in just one part of town, Polish town, and pushed into there by the Police. It's exciting today as I write this that Joe Biden wants to pick a Black female Vice Presidential running mate. Mr. Biden has his eye on several female Black Senators from whom he wants to choose from. He's known them awhile. He just doesn't know which one he wants to pick yet as all are worthy to him. I mean this is exciting, the first Black and female Vice President. And, take into account, Joe Biden is old and not in optimum health, so what would that leave. Why, it would leave the first Black female President of the United States. I don't mean to just say Joe Biden is old because Donald Trump is old too. They both have heart conditions. But, still this is incredible news. Joe Biden will not officially announce his Vice Presidential nominee until August the article said, but he has his eye on a few female Black senators and these are the ones he is going to pick from. I'm not a fan of Joe Biden really.. He's so old school that he doesn't even realize that he comes off sounding like at first he's picking a token woman, and now a token black woman vice president. That's the kind of politicians we need to get rid of.. The career politicians that will say whatever it takes. I don't trust any of them anyways, but for me some are just the cream of the crop.. He's one, McCain was one,Romney, Trump, Hillary even though I think she is done now...I could be here all day just running off the names.. Look, We've got businesses closing down again, all states but two back on the rise of infections, the death toll will be increasing in a couple weeks to a month.. What's congress doing? Taking a vacation on the 3rd and not coming back until the 20th, because they either don't care or don't think the virus is a problem anymore.. The reason they would think this way is, because they are so high up in their own heads that they've become out of touch. Most times when a politician speaks, my tummy turns a little.. I don't trust any of them. ETA:I'm sorry for sounding harsh..it's not at you but at politicians in general.. These guys are taking a vacation right in the middle of a crisis, when unemployment stimulus is going to run out and cut 20 million people down to crumbs, which will more than likely cause more unemployment of about 5 million.. All because they aren't taking it serious now.. The economy is going to hit us all hard very soon if they don't get off their butts and act.. Edited June 29, 2020 by Ceka Cianci 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prokofy Neva Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Here's an interesting critique of "White Fragility" - I find the author a loathsome creature on many topics but here he has a point. https://taibbi.substack.com/p/on-white-fragility Here's a podcast (I think worth paying for) that interviews a woman who went through a year-long training with the author of "White Fragility" and found it lacking. https://www.patreon.com/posts/early-access-f-38424843 And there's more if you look. You can address the very real issues of racism without going down this sectarian rabbit hole. Here is an important article for example to understand the history: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/06/22/the-history-of-the-riot-report 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said: I'm not a fan of Joe Biden really.. He's so old school that he doesn't even realize that he comes off sounding like at first he's picking a token woman, and now a token black woman vice president. That's the kind of politicians we need to get rid of.. The career politicians that will say whatever it takes. I don't trust any of them anyways, but for me some are just the cream of the crop.. I know it does partly sound that way but he knows the Senator's personally and he just could not decide. It's several female Black Senator's he's considering that unfortunately it does come off sounding a bit odd, but we are in odd times and he's under pressure to let people know who his Vice Presidential candidate will be. He said he will announce his decision in August. The thing to remember with president's it's a whole team working behind the scenes together but they have to come through for us. I'm going to remain at least a bit hopeful we will make it through this. But, I'm on edge because of Covid-19 and it's aftermath too. 58 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said: What's congress doing? Taking a vacation on the 3rd and not coming back until the 20th, because they either don't care or don't think the virus is a problem anymore. I know. I know. I know. The bars were closed in California yesterday by our state's Governor. My niece is a bartender with a 1-year-old baby. I'm not even sure if my niece has to file for unemployment again and WAIT to get unemployment again, or what? I am angry at Congress for taking this extended break. We need answers soon; very soon. The thing is, a Black female Vice President chair could help with issues that need addressing now as we go forward into 2021, but I also know it's one very tough economic situation with Covid-19 and jobs right now. It's not going to be any easy time, not only for America, but for the world. We need to hear from Congress soon. Edited June 29, 2020 by FairreLilette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollymews Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 12 hours ago, Akane Nacht said: Mine, yes. My great-great-great grandfather's? Nope. I see no point in dwelling on things long done by people I never knew. so you would be aggrieved if the property was yours. But not if the property was your great-great-great-grandfathers ? you understand why people, including yourself, are aggrieved when this happens lets look at this generationally. At what point do we cut off restitution (or compensation) of property taken by the State since the establishment of the State. We are not talking about things that happened before this establishment. Just things that have happened since a generational posit suppose the property was a ring, an heirloom, which had been passed down from mother to daughter in your family for as long as anyone can remember. Then one day your grandmother turns up not happy. The ring has been taken by an agent of the State for no reason other than that they could, so they took it you say what to your grandmother, your mother, your daughter and your granddaughter ? do you say: Oh! well. Nevermind. It wasn't my ring. Grandma, you, Mum, my daughter and my granddaughter need to get over yourselves ? then as time goes by your grandmother and mother die. You are now the oldest generation in the family. Your great granddaughter (of the now 6th generation since the ring was taken) says to you: Nana I know where the ring is. I am going to try and get it back do you say: Child the ring is not yours, it was my grandmothers ? child then says: It would have been mine had the State not taken it. I am going to try and get it back so I can give it to my daughter one day (the 7th generation). What do you say to this ? do you just repeat yourself: Child let it go. The ring is not yours to give to your daughter - my great great granddaughter or do you say: Child is all ancient history now, forget about it and get over yourself ? a thing. 6 generations is 120 years. 7 generations will be 140 years. Is a long time. However is not ancient history. The ring was taken in living memory. Your living memory your great granddaughter to aid her efforts in getting the ring back, asks you to attest in an affidavit that the ring was taken from your grandmother. What do you say to her ? do you say: I am not going to attest to this. Let it go ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 NY Times has found 70 cases of people dying at the hands of police after saying "I Can't Breath": https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Three-Words-70-Cases-The-Tragic-History-of-I-15374879.php Original article: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/28/us/i-cant-breathe-police-arrest.html (It's not behind their paywall for me, but it might be for you, so I kept the SF gate link also). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bree Giffen Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 It's getting so bad with regular police these days. We might need to turn to technology to create a better peace officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 (edited) ..... Not why this was hidden... Edited June 30, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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