I need a responsible adult!

[Tari Landar]

I put myself in time out because my typed up but never actually sent responses were getting downright mean and cruel, because my limit of "I can deal with this person" for some people had been reached months ago, they aren't making it any easier to dial that down, and I'm not prepared to use the block feature for the first time ever here (the mere thought of it makes me very sad, really)

Also, because people, generally speaking, have turned a new level of cranky, whether they want to admit it or not. Taking ***** from the forums to IM, taking things inworld, getting downright nasty in places they ought not to because someone else (not me) here hurt their feelings, so they'e lashing out.  I'm not prepared to come out of my pillow fort yet and deal with that, or willing to blame it on being cooped up, or anything else...I think people have lost a wee bit of self control, the still small voice that says "stfu you idiot, stop being a doorknobby walnut".

Doing my best to help someone else deal with their own demons they're battling, she's way more important. 

[FairreLilette]

32 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

Okay, Dude, what would you like to do about others who are called Karen who are run off by some bullybee's here?  I don't think Jordan even knew what it meant nor did others.  But, they were "bullied" off the forum because of the use of the word which they don't even understand nor did I so I had to look it up.  

The use of the word Karen is ageist/sexist/racist along with an FU and Jordan's posts were not terrible nor awful, not at all.  She seems like a kind, terrific person and did not deserve an FU at all because she really didn't deserve it at all.    

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Love Zhaoying]

@Tari Landar Perhaps find a friend who commiserates on the same topics, and DM with them to let off steam about things you'd regret posting.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Love Zhaoying

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

It's written in the Wiki about it though...that Karen is used like the n-word to describe white women. 

You need to more carefully read Wiki sentences. 

The entire and exact sentence is:
   In April 2020, a Twitter account named "Friends of Journalism" asserted the term to be "an equivalent of the n-word for white women" and polled Twitter users on whether they would like to see it banned

i.e. Some Twitter account made the reference -- a single Twitter account.  Nowhere else in the Wiki page does it make that association.

ETA:  The page does also contain this statement, but that is not equating Karen with the n-word, but that is just referencing more general activity that wasn't pinpointed:
    There has been some debate as to whether "Karen" is a racist term, likening the "K-word to the N-word."

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by LittleMe Jewell

[FairreLilette]

8 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

You need to more carefully read Wiki sentences. 

The entire and exact sentence is:
   In April 2020, a Twitter account named "Friends of Journalism" asserted the term to be "an equivalent of the n-word for white women" and polled Twitter users on whether they would like to see it banned

i.e. Some Twitter account made the reference -- a single Twitter account.  Nowhere else in the Wiki page does it make that association.

 

It's the way it's interrupted on the forums here though.  It was originally an fu from this person, Karen's, ex-husband.  I do think people are interrupting it as an FU and what I am saying is that FU was not even deserved but I don't think things will ever change around the forum unless they make an OFF TOPIC section of the forum somewhere else, such as not so front and center like it is now.  I don't think this FU calling is good for Second Life as a business nor a community as we really came to be together here, politics and religion aside.  And, that's something I'd like to find again for myself.  I'm not saying be all saccharin but this is still a business and we are guests.  Yet, maybe some do need to tone it down as it's really out of control and not necessary. 

Edited June 6, 2020 by FairreLilette

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

No, it's not behavior.  It's age, sex, race.  In short, it's a middle-aged white woman.  

Again, read your Wiki source more carefully.

'Karen' does not apply to ALL middle-aged white women.  It applies to those with a specific attitude & behavior:

  "Karen" is a neutral, informal term for a woman perceived to be self-entitled or demanding beyond the scope of what is considered appropriate or necessary, ..... It is commonly associated with an American middle-aged white woman who displays aggressive behavior when prevented from getting her way; ....
   (bolding mine)

Various other generalizations & stereotypes have been applied , but the above attitude/behavior flows across them all.

[Gatogateau]

1 hour ago, Tari Landar said:

doorknobby walnut

I'm stealing this.

[FairreLilette]

4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Again, read your Wiki source more carefully.

'Karen' does not apply to ALL middle-aged white women.  It applies to those with a specific attitude & behavior:

  "Karen" is a neutral, informal term for a woman perceived to be self-entitled or demanding beyond the scope of what is considered appropriate or necessary, ..... It is commonly associated with an American middle-aged white woman who displays aggressive behavior when prevented from getting her way; ....
   (bolding mine)

Various other generalizations & stereotypes have been applied , but the above attitude/behavior flows across them all.

I skimmed through it LittleMe as how many do you expect to carefully read that?   And, It's really the way it's interpreted here as an FU.  Copies and pastes her post below.    

 

8 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

It's the way it's interrupted on the forums here though.  It was originally an fu from this person, Karen's, ex-husband.  I do think people are interrupting it as an FU and what I am saying is that FU was not even deserved but I don't think things will ever change around the forum unless they make an OFF TOPIC section of the forum somewhere else, such as not so front and center like it is now.  I don't think this FU calling is good for Second Life as a business nor a community as we really came to be together here, politics and religion aside.  And, that's something I'd like to find again for myself.  I'm not saying be all saccharin but this is still a business and we are guests.  Yet, maybe some do need to tone it down as it's really out of control and not necessary. 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Cindy Evanier]

4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

commonly associated with an American middle-aged white woman

Phew, I am ok then.  I am not Karen

[Amina Sopwith]

Tbh, while I understand the reasoning behind the Karen meme, it doesn't really hold water to me because the point is also to use it to shut women up. You know, so you can call them a Karen if you don't like what they're doing, or warn them not to be a Karen, and control their behaviour that way. It's hardly the first time society has created a nasty stereotype to shut women up, especially if it's a question of being "demanding". Outspoken women rarely get a positive reception. 

If someone's acting entitled and aggressive, I don't see why it requires a gendered insult. I can think of plenty of neutral words that exist already for an unreasonable person of either gender. 

With that said, it still doesn't even begin to compare to racial slurs. That's ridiculous. 

[Gatogateau]

11 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

You need to more carefully read Wiki sentences. 

The entire and exact sentence is:
   In April 2020, a Twitter account named "Friends of Journalism" asserted the term to be "an equivalent of the n-word for white women" and polled Twitter users on whether they would like to see it banned

i.e. Some Twitter account made the reference -- a single Twitter account.  Nowhere else in the Wiki page does it make that association.

ETA:  The page does also contain this statement, but that is not equating Karen with the n-word, but that is just referencing more general activity that wasn't pinpointed:
    There has been some debate as to whether "Karen" is a racist term, likening the "K-word to the N-word."

 

:::me shakes a tiny furry paw at Lil for quoting :p  :::

Karen = n-word? Oh ffs. Not even close. A recent internet meme is in no way comparable to centuries worth of meaning and actions related to the other. Talk about tone deaf...

Did I mention, "Oh, ffs."?

And is there no thread safe from these total, off-the-wall derails? And that is coming from someone who enjoys a good derail! Any minute now we'll get more enlightenment on churches, mental health, British aristocracy...

sigh... and we're at Tari's point. And I do take responsibility for my own actions. Every once in a while though, just 

[Gatogateau]

2 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Tbh, while I understand the reasoning behind the Karen meme, it doesn't really hold water to me because the point is also to use it to shut women up.

Yes. But oddly, when I've seen it used most, is other women calling women Karens, which I don't know, is even worse than men doing it?

Karen, OKBoomer, etc. may have started as a humorously good counterpoint to boorish behavior but, as things do on the Internet, very quickly took a nasty turn. Pretty soon there will be nothing safe, no word or gesture that hasn't been co-opted into hate. Who can keep up? I learned that the ultra-right has corrupted the ok sign you make with your hand. Really? yeesh

[LittleMe Jewell]

8 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

It was originally an fu from this person, Karen's, ex-husband. 

Not entirely.  ONE origin of the term "Karen" was via memes by the Reddit user about his ex-wife.

Per the same Wiki:  The name "Karen" had negative connotations predating the Internet meme.

 

 

3 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I skimmed through it LittleMe as how many do you expect to carefully read that? 

Whenever I use something as a referenced "source", I read it entirely -- not skim it.  

 

 

5 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

And, It's really the way it's interpreted here as an FU. 

Interpreted by you.   You can't know how others interpret things.  I see it as a put down, a jab, along the same lines as "Ok, Boomer".  When used here, it is often telling someone they are clueless and/or acting like they are entitled.  Though some people simply use it as a complete 'dismissive' statement --- like using 'whatever'with an added knock-down.

 

[FairreLilette]

2 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Tbh, while I understand the reasoning behind the Karen meme, it doesn't really hold water to me because the point is also to use it to shut women up. You know, so you can call them a Karen if you don't like what they're doing, or warn them not to be a Karen, and control their behaviour that way. It's hardly the first time society has created a nasty stereotype to shut women up, especially if it's a question of being "demanding". Outspoken women rarely get a positive reception. 

If someone's acting entitled and aggressive, I don't see why it requires a gendered insult. I can think of plenty of neutral words that exist already for an unreasonable person of either gender. 

With that said, it still doesn't even begin to compare to racial slurs. That's ridiculous. 

But silencing others, isn't that part of racism and it's bullying especially from police such as my Black friend who grew up in Alabama who was hosed down by the police?  

But, you know what Amina.  All this politics and religion here on SL I don't really find necessary for myself and as far as politics in SL, I'm going to leave it alone from now on and say "No this is my escape, I don't want to be involved in politics on SL".   So, this is my last post about it.  I don't want to discuss politics anymore other than just my example above.  

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

Every time I think I've seen the most nonsensical post ever, I wind up being surprised. It's like there is an endless well of WTF. 

[Gatogateau]

Let's hope (and see) that "this is my last post about it [politics]" and all the truly crazy ways it has been interpreted, holds. Anyone taking bets?

There's an OP around here somewhere... Oh, right, adults. Needing one. Shining a lantern at noon in search of one... etc.

[FairreLilette]

Oh here comes the army of alts.  Like we don't know.  If you don't know intimidation and silencing are part of racism, no one can help you see that.  

[Luna Bliss]

17 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

But silencing others, isn't that part of racism and it's bullying especially from police such as my Black friend who grew up in Alabama who was hosed down by the police? 

It is a type of bullying yes, or can be. It's an insult, and I really didn't like to see it used against a new poster. I don't find fault with you pointing this out really. 

But calling someone a 'Karen' is not as severe as using the 'N' word against a Black person, as their oppression has been much greater - a b*tchy middle-aged housewife who complains a lot just hasn't endured what Blacks endured.  And so if you compare something lesser to something so much greater it minimizes the horrors of what Blacks went through over the centuries when the 'N' word was applied to them.  One has to be very careful with comparisons.

[Robin Kiyori]

I do think we need  a few more moderators espiically in European times where trolls are more heav-

 

/me sees the derail right now

 

..Nope

Edited June 6, 2020 by Robin Kiyori
Fixing my typos.

[Amina Sopwith]

15 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

Yes. But oddly, when I've seen it used most, is other women calling women Karens, which I don't know, is even worse than men doing it?

Internalised misogyny. The whole "oh yes, women suck, but I'm not like other women" thing is one of the oldest examples. Women use it because it works (it doesn't challenge the hate, in fact it reinforces it) but it's still misogyny. 

 

18 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

Pretty soon there will be nothing safe, no word or gesture that hasn't been co-opted into hate. 

We have a long way to go before that has to be a concern. I can think of many ways to describe a boorish, aggressive person and none of them weaponise that person's gender. 

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I can think of many ways to describe a boorish, aggressive person and none of them weaponise that person's gender. 

Yeah, I think this Karen meme was basically developed by a bunch of white adolescents or young men, peeved that their mother had/has too much control over them.

[Gatogateau]

5 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Internalised misogyny. The whole "oh yes, women suck, but I'm not like other women" thing is one of the oldest examples. Women use it because it works (it doesn't challenge the hate, in fact it reinforces it) but it's still misogyny. 

 

We have a long way to go before that has to be a concern. I can think of many ways to describe a boorish, aggressive person and none of them weaponise that person's gender. 

True, true. Of course I was being hyperbolic in the "there will be nothing safe" but I was also speaking of things in general, like the A-OK hand sign being co-opted by the ultra right as a sign of white supremacy, not gender specifically. I mean, seriously, who can keep up?

Edited June 6, 2020 by Gatogateau
add a clarifying phrase

[Amina Sopwith]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

Yeah, I think this Karen meme was basically developed by a bunch of white adolescents or young men, peeved that their mother had/has too much control over them.

Couldn't say, I don't know enough about it. But I do know that I used to work with one (she even had the haircut) and when I was complaining about her, I found many ways of criticising her without bringing her gender into it. 

[Amina Sopwith]

1 minute ago, Gatogateau said:

True, true. Of course I was being hyperbolic in the "there will be nothing safe" but I was also speaking of things in general, like the A-OK hand sign being co-opted by the ultra right as a sign of white supremacy. I mean, seriously, who can keep up?

I thought that had been debunked? Maybe I can't keep up either. It's not unknown for people to delegitimise their opponents by making up rubbish like all these people who insist that being politically correct means having to say "vertically challenged" or some such nonsense.

[Gatogateau]

2 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I thought that had been debunked?

Last I heard the Anti-Defamation League had it on their list of *potential* hate speech. That the right *did* co-opt it but that it is still being used in its traditional sense and so not to jump to conclusions when you see it (emoji form on the Internet) and not to assume racism. Like, take it in context (like so many other things).