Tilia Pay to Power USD Transactions in Second Life Beginning May 26

[Linden Lab]

To comply with financial regulations, we’re making an important change to how US Dollar transactions are processed in Second Life. Beginning May 26, 2020, when you make a US Dollar payment or add a new payment method in Second Life, your transaction will be handled through Tilia Inc.

Read all the details in the following post:

Have any questions or comments? Please reply in this thread. 

[Epoch Conundrum]

This is probably a "no duh," but this includes premium costs as well? Just wanting to know what to look out for each month going forward whether I should expect to see Tilia or Linden Lab on my bank statement.

[Lindal Kidd]

This one is even more opaque than most announcements by LL.

Even after I read the blog post...twice...I still have no idea what this means in terms of actual everyday Second Life.

[Grumpity Linden]

6 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

I still have no idea what this means in terms of actual everyday Second Life

Lindal, good news! Not much is changing in terms of actual everyday experience.  Starting May 26, when you pay with a Credit Card or add a new Payment method, you will see text informing you that by proceeding with that action, you are agreeing to the Tilia ToS and Privacy Policy.  That's it. 

[Chic Aeon]

24 minutes ago, Grumpity Linden said:

Lindal, good news! Not much is changing in terms of actual everyday experience.  Starting May 26, when you pay with a Credit Card or add a new Payment method, you will see text informing you that by proceeding with that action, you are agreeing to the Tilia ToS and Privacy Policy.  That's it. 

If you do NOT add a new Payment method (for example keep the Paypal account that has been active for over a decade) will you need to agree to the TOS and Privacy Policy now if you have not?  It reads as a  "no" (to me), but just checking :D.  Thank you.

 

Also does this have anything to do with the question I tagged you on over last weekend about the gal who after a very long time suddenly had to agree to the TOS and Privacy policy when she was only buying Lindens?  That would sort of make sense if she added a new payment method (I don't believe she said one way or another but fuzzy on that). I missed a reply if that happened.  

 

Thanks for keeping us informed. 

 

 

[Peaches2U Camino]

When we exchange our Lindens for USD (and keep it inworld) , to pay tier...will that be affected by Tilia?

[Grumpity Linden]

37 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

If you do NOT add a new Payment method (for example keep the Paypal account that has been active for over a decade) will you need to agree to the TOS and Privacy Policy now if you have not?  It reads as a  "no" (to me), but just checking :D.  Thank you.

 

Hi Chic! Since all USD transactions are handled by Tilia, you will be agreeing to the ToS and PP when you transact.  For example, you will see something like the following when you purchase L$: 

42 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Also does this have anything to do with the question I tagged you on over last weekend about the gal who after a very long time suddenly had to agree to the TOS and Privacy policy when she was only buying Lindens?  That would sort of make sense if she added a new payment method (I don't believe she said one way or another but fuzzy on that). I missed a reply if that happened.  

 

This does not have anything to do with the question from last weekend.  I would expect she had encountered that issue due to a refund from a changing exchange rate on the LindeX during a L$ purchase.  My apologies for not responding there earlier.  It slid off my plate while I was distracted.  

[Selene Gregoire]

5 minutes ago, Grumpity Linden said:

It slid off my plate while I was distracted.  

And the dog gobbled it up.

[Grumpity Linden]

25 minutes ago, Peaches2U Camino said:

When we exchange our Lindens for USD (and keep it inworld) , to pay tier...will that be affected by Tilia?

Hi Peaches2U, 

When you sell L$ on the LindeX, your USD wallet is handled by Tilia.  That means you need to agree to the Tilia ToS and Privacy policy when you offer the L$ for sale. This has been the case since August 1, 2019 and is not changing in any way now.  You can continue to use that balance to pay for land, premium etc. 

[animats]

Tilia, remember, is a payments company set up by Linden Lab to handle payments for multiple online services. Their only customer was Linden Lab, but they intended to solicit others.

Now they have a new customer! Upland.

Reviews of Upland.

What could possibly go wrong?

This probably isn't a big risk to SL users, but LL legal staff might wish to take a close look at Upland, with special reference to the Howey test and how Telegram got in trouble with the SEC.

 

[Cheshyr Pontchartrain]

So for now it's business as usual when withdrawing money? Payments will still come to my PayPal account, rather than a check or electronic deposit by Tilia?

[Chic Aeon]

42 minutes ago, Grumpity Linden said:

Hi Chic! Since all USD transactions are handled by Tilia, you will be agreeing to the ToS and PP when you transact.  For example, you will see something like the following when you purchase L$: 

So one BIG change as I understand it (and I am really trying to :D) is that NOW folks that BUY linden dollars will have to agree to the Tilia TOS and privacy policy.    Is that correct?

 

And anyone NOW paying using Paypal (even with an existing and verified over time account) will also have to agree to the Tilia TOS and Privacy Policy before the Paypal payment can go through. Correct?

 

Thanks. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the clarifications.  

[Grumpity Linden]

5 minutes ago, Cheshyr Pontchartrain said:

So for now it's business as usual when withdrawing money? Payments will still come to my PayPal account, rather than a check or electronic deposit by Tilia?

Yup. No change to how you get your money. 

[Grumpity Linden]

5 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

So one BIG change as I understand it (and I am really trying to :D) is that NOW folks that BUY linden dollars will have to agree to the Tilia TOS and privacy policy.    Is that correct?

 

And anyone NOW paying using Paypal (even with an existing and verified over time account) will also have to agree to the Tilia TOS and Privacy Policy before the Paypal payment can go through. Correct?

Chic, you understand it correctly. I am not at liberty pass a value judgement on the size of that change :).

[Lyssa Greymoon]

How does this work for premium membership renewals, do we need to do something before renewal time?

[Grumpity Linden]

20 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

How does this work for premium membership renewals, do we need to do something before renewal time?

Nope, you're all good. Renewals will happen automatically, same as always. 

[Chic Aeon]

16 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

How does this work for premium membership renewals, do we need to do something before renewal time?

I think Grumpity is home by how hopefully. According to what she told me (above) you will need to agree to Tilia's TOS and privacy agreement.  Most likely you already did. When the time comes you should reread what it is of course, but other than that it most likely won't affect you much.

 

There are a handful (who knows how many but not tons for sure) of folks that opted NOT to agree to Tilia.  For those that have never agreed, there may be some newness in the mix. At one point we were told that if we didn't agree to the Tilia TOS within three months we would not be able to (EITHER I honestly forget -- change lindens to USD OR cash out  - or of course both). That could no longer be in affect though and really isn't applicable to many folks

[Lucia Nightfire]

Isn't LL currently involved in a conflict of interest & trust violation court case brought against them by a former employee over Tilia being created, operated and staffed by LL employees instead of involving a completely separate entity in all rights/actions? Or were those comments on glassdoor and BBB  from last year just talk from disgruntled ex-employees?

[Mollymews]

4 hours ago, animats said:

Tilia, remember, is a payments company set up by Linden Lab to handle payments for multiple online services. Their only customer was Linden Lab, but they intended to solicit others.

there is Wookey Sansar Studio as well. So 3 now for Tilia if Upland is now in as well

i think that it is a good thing for Linden as a company to grow thru Tilia rather than trying to make alternate worlds to Second Life. Managing virtual micro-payments systems in a sustainable way is something that Linden have a whole lot of experience at doing

[kiramanell]

4 hours ago, Grumpity Linden said:

Chic, you understand it correctly. I am not at liberty pass a value judgement on the size of that change :).

 

Could you be more cryptic?! You personally don't like the Tilia changes, but you can't say that? There's a lot more to the change than you're letting on? What? 😕

Edited May 21, 2020 by kiramanell

[Grumpity Linden]

32 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

Could you be more cryptic?! You personally don't like the Tilia changes, but you can't say that? There's a lot more to the change than you're letting on? What? 😕

Hi kiramanell!  I was making a little joke, because Chic Aeon has a strong opinion about these changes, and had referred to them as BIG, and I was needling her just a tiny bit about it. 

In all seriousness, it is, of course, everyone's right to decide whether a particular Terms of Service are acceptable.  So while I, personally, as a regular grumpity human think that these changes are minor, as Grumpity Linden it's my job to make sure that our customers are minimally disrupted in their daily activities by this transition, are aware of the change, and to answer any questions and concerns.  

In retrospect, I should have refrained from making light of this, and I apologize. We are all focused on keeping the Second Life economy strong while making sure we're complying with all applicable regulations, and Tilia is the solution created by Linden Lab to do just that. 

[Grumpity Linden]

11 hours ago, Epoch Conundrum said:

This is probably a "no duh," but this includes premium costs as well? Just wanting to know what to look out for each month going forward whether I should expect to see Tilia or Linden Lab on my bank statement.

Hi Epoch, 

This does include premium costs as well.  I don't believe there should be any change to what you see on your statement, however, the exact line item you see on your bank statement may change in the future.  I will update here if I'm able to find out more specifics.  

[Alwin Alcott]

12 hours ago, Peaches2U Camino said:

When we exchange our Lindens for USD (and keep it inworld) , to pay tier...will that be affected by Tilia?

yes, all what is stored on your USD balance, and now all other payments in USD

[Alwin Alcott]

LL should open a office in Europe .. for us that US rules are filled with paranoia.
Lot more transparant at this side of the ocean and a lot better customer protection.

[kiramanell]

2 hours ago, Grumpity Linden said:

Hi kiramanell!  I was making a little joke, because Chic Aeon has a strong opinion about these changes, and had referred to them as BIG, and I was needling her just a tiny bit about it. 

In all seriousness, it is, of course, everyone's right to decide whether a particular Terms of Service are acceptable.  So while I, personally, as a regular grumpity human think that these changes are minor, as Grumpity Linden it's my job to make sure that our customers are minimally disrupted in their daily activities by this transition, are aware of the change, and to answer any questions and concerns.  

In retrospect, I should have refrained from making light of this, and I apologize. We are all focused on keeping the Second Life economy strong while making sure we're complying with all applicable regulations, and Tilia is the solution created by Linden Lab to do just that. 

 

Thx for the clarification.