Releases under the Fog of War

[BJoyful]

1 minute ago, Seba Serpente said:

Then again, extra cost, and time, that noone really needs to pay.

No one really needs to tear hair out and and give themselves ulcers and insult people trying to get one of the scarce new Homes they don't need to pay for either but in lieu of having a little patience, perhaps this could be a viable alternative to that sort of self-destructive behavior?  

 

[Seba Serpente]

You mentioned something important there too... it might not be as nice.

Think here for a second.

This is basicly what linden lab has done over the years:

- Create open areas, divide them, sell them... place some roads, welcome areas and points of interest to make it interesting and usefull. (this is good, all good game or platform needs a world to live on)

- Create new open areas, divide them, sell them, place some roads, welcome areas, and points of interest, again. (cause more people has joined, they need space of course, and revenue from land sales)

- this goes on and on

- Create linden homes to make a new way to charge users, create new continents for these homes that the only purpose is to be a home (this works, cause mainland was so busy, was nice to have these new areas)

- create even more continents as the users grow, same idea, infrastructure, create welcome areas and such... but... you can now notice less points of interest, they now put that resposability on the residents to create interest on the enviroment (thats ok cause these areas are still raging and full of life)

-- create more continents with same idea... but. wait... there is not a boom of residens anymore so lets build it and leave it half done (and there that infamous half completed continent)

At this point you have created a huge world using a massive ammount of resources, and usage is slowly declining, making these areas more emply and less interesting, and since you put the work of creating interesting points of interest to residents, your lands are no longer as interesting.

- private regions emerge, even taking actual space on mainland like the blake sea (this works cause these lands are actually mantained and taken care in many other ways)

- time passes, create more linden homes with same idea

- create new continent with diferent idea, lets create a community back on mainland, and lets give more prims to make it attractive! (landlords takes over, doesnt really creates any community)

- bellisseria appears! the idea of creating a community on mainland once again, with the lesson learned! (instant hit, not enough units)

 

But here is the problem:

- At any moment noone went back and updated/refurbished the maps, the mainland. Areas that were loosing interest lost even more interest. all that ammount of resources has stayed there not generating enough revenue out of it, and still is. White elephants (look it up).

- nor, map has not been reduced according to necesity. whatever has been put online has been kept there regardless (for the most part), again, dragging costs for no reason.

- now you have a large userbase that doesnt likes the land the company has to offer and most option is basicly private regions.

- suddenly you do offer something desirable, boom, but hey, you still got those white elephants abandonned back there.

 

So.. all this anger, for me, comes from far back.. of course, refurbishing mainland to make it cool and fresh once again would be a huge project, but guess what.. bellisseria is a huge project too. instead of keeping adding more regions on top of empty ones, work those empty regions back to life. It would be much better in many ways.

[Morena Tully]

I don't know what else to say but maybe @Seba Serpente you are in the wrong thread and wrong subforum for this... As for the fog of war, I like the idea, it's true that constant hope and constant disappointment wears on people.

[Atina0]

5 hours ago, anniepany said:

Me too Beth. I was in that group at the time he left it and it made me heartsick, that it had come to that. It's damned if you do and damned if you don't, it's a no win situation with the whining and complaining, from people who did not get a house, threats of lawsuits were being hurled in another group by yet another special snowflake. Is it any wonder he got fed up? There was a time when the Lindens weren't even allowed to communicate with the residents and that was a horrible time for everyone involved. Now they are engaging more and more which is a wonderful thing, indeed. But, IF the whiners, threateners (is that even a word?) anyway....continue with the negativity I fear it could go back to that way again, and who could blame the Lindens? Certainly not me. The people you can't please will be to blame......just my two lindens worth....

not to mension all those angry people living in the community at some time  ,i'm sure they will find something else to complain  over   ,its a shame to see adults behaving like spoiled kids not getting their toy RIGHT now .

[Fionalein]

The lack of empathy of those that already have a new Linden Home is alarming... does that get issued with the Homes? I agree it is just a pixel home but why should that devalue people feeling treated second class premium if they don't get one? They payed the same as you but don't get the same service.

I have another proposal: if it is really nothing worth worrying about as you all say - how about evicting everyone from their places again until there are enough for all? ... Oh you don't agree? Then please stop complaining that people worry about something as unimportant as a pixel home.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Fionalein

[Persephone Starlight]

7 hours ago, kiramanell said:

 

Is their possible presence making you nervous?!

He’s afraid they’re peeking in his windows and he can’t see them doing it!

[Quartz Mole]

10 hours ago, Seba Serpente said:

It does seems to me that backing up/delay is actually on the office Lindens and not on the Mole team. There is quite a few regions that do seem ready to go, and you barely see one office Linden popping up from time to time to get the next steps done. A lot of resources being put on the moles but the whole work line doesnt seems well ballance to match the speed the Moles are doing on the regions.

No, while I don't know in detail what needs doing after we finish with a region, I do know some of the various steps between our finishing a region and it becoming available and, particularly since it involves people who are very busy anyway (including the Land team), it's no small task.   Furthermore, whatever your subjective impression may be of how many regions look ready, I attend our team meetings and use the same online forms and reports as do the other Moles, so I know what stage all the regions are at, and I can assure you that we release them as we complete each small batch.    

I'm deliberately being vague about how long a delay there is between my finishing off on a region and the region becoming available because the short answer is I don't know, and I don't want to fuel speculation, since plans can be disrupted by all sorts of unexpected events, ranging from the mundane, like unexpected staff absences because of illness, to the more unusual like the multitude of issues that keep requiring "unscheduled maintenance" .   However, in the normal course of events, I would say that generally, after we've finished with them, I'd expect the new regions to be released at some point over the next couple of days or so, taking into account weekends, public holidays and other potential disruptors 

The big limiting factor, I'm afraid, is how quickly we can finish the regions while still keeping up-to-date on other scheduled work.    We're working as fast as we can, but things take as long as they take.   

Edited July 11, 2019 by Quartz Mole

[Evangeline Arcadia]

10 hours ago, Seba Serpente said:

It does seems to me that backing up/delay is actually on the office Lindens and not on the Mole team. There is quite a few regions that do seem ready to go, and you barely see one office Linden popping up from time to time to get the next steps done. A lot of resources being put on the moles but the whole work line doesnt seems well ballance to match the speed the Moles are doing on the regions.

Seem is quite important here. It may seem like they are ready, does not mean they are.  I don't think one can speculate whether or not a region is ready to go based on what you see inworld since we don't work for LL and thus don't know their precise procedure and requirements.  And just because you can't see them doesn't mean they aren't doing what the need to do. 

[Alwin Alcott]

7 hours ago, Seba Serpente said:

Even more sad is that land lords often take advantage of this and they take all the lands premium members can get with the included tier, and jack up the purchase price.

i didn't notice this at all past weeks ... there are lóads of really nice mainland parcels available, and at mostly very reasonable prices.

[Fionalein]

2 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

i didn't notice this at all past weeks ... there are lóads of really nice mainland parcels available, and at mostly very reasonable prices.

LOL

• Do they come with a free mesh house?
• Do they come free of price?

you're comparing apples and oranges here ...

Edited July 11, 2019 by Fionalein

[Raevyn Addams]

I'll start by saying what is quickly becoming habit now; It is not my intention to offend or upset anyone, so if I do I apologize in advance. But I will not engage in further discussion beyond this post. Once my feelings have been made known and your feelings have been made known by way of a reply, we should both be adult enough to agree to disagree and walk away. If only that were a belief shared by... well, the majority. It isn't. Regardless, there's my disclaimer (Oh, and it's not aimed at anyone in particular. I have not tagged or quoted anyone since the intent is to answer the OP not engage in a personal battle-of-wills, but I do refer to points previously made by others. )

To answer the OP question as to what can be done, I'll cast an unpopular vote even if it's not something that I myself want; Stop the smaller regional releases. Focus instead on bigger releases. Release when there are more. Have no contact with the Residents. Don't engage in discussion on the Forum save for technical issues. Nothing. Again, it's not something I WANT but it feels like something that needs to happen. After all, no good deed goes unpunished. And right now, for the last few weeks and months, despite the attempts made by the Lindens and Moles to make Bellisseria a fun and engaging project for all to enjoy and watch develop (and it has been!), too many have turned it into... something less than positive. With more people becoming disappointed and frustrated week after week I predict the problem only getting worse.

As many have already said there is no possible way to make everyone happy. When the bigger releases were offered, people weren't happy. When the smaller during-the-week releases were/are offered, people weren't/aren't happy. A mid-range one-a-week release is still too limited for the numbers trying to get a house, so people aren't going to be happy. People aren't happy about waiting. Or the process to acquire a house. Or having the option to abandon capped at 5 a day. Or the styles on offer. Or the colour options. Or the landscaping. Or the lack of community venues. Or the land size. Or the prim allowance. Or lack of rez zones. If by some miracle LL and the Moles managed to release ALL the regions tomorrow and everyone who wanted a house got one people would still complain. Because they don't want to be forced into a new house. Because maybe the regions were churned out so fast they look like photocopies. Because they don't like their neighbour. Because Bellisseria feels too much like a "gated community". Because, because, because... The list goes on and on.

Do I think a one-a-week FOW release will help? Not really. I can't see the difference a few days will make compared to the bottlenecking we have now. Would a bigger release will solve the issue then? Honestly, no. But at least there were more opportunities available at once, less complaints of not having "split second reflexes", and there was a degree of acceptance as to when to expect the next release. But in my opinion, since it was asked, the only thing that I believe will solve the biggest issue is having more homes than would meet current demand. I say more because those who would complain about location can choose again and keep choosing without having to... complain. Realistically having that many houses available is a LONG WAY OFF. And while we can all throw reminders around that patience is a virtue, it's easy to become angry when you feel subject to regular disappointment.

This leads me to the part about the no-contact between Lindens, Moles, and us Residents. I have dearly loved the chats and laughs and would hate to see that change. But this too has created bitterness, talk of favouritism, nepotism (relating to benefits that may not necessarily be a house or even a job, but promotion none the less), and harassment. Having people so regularly and vocally (and sometimes viciously) vent about your failures has got to be demoralizing. It's draining enough just reading the threads and posts as a Resident. I can't imagine this does anything for the creative process as a staff member. Beyond that, the more some people are given, the more they take; be that in terms of time, attention, or the exchange of opinions. While we can't stop people from having their say, regardless how cruel or vindicated they feel, giving them less directions to aim it can only be a good thing (though I am not naïve enough to believe they will simply stop but redirect elsewhere until whatever fire drives them burns out).

Evicting the entirety of Bellisseria and starting again would only create more headaches for LL on top of what they already have, on top of creating new friction. This is essentially saying "Give your lottery winnings to someone else who didn't win, and you go win the lottery again." That is not showing empathy either. Right now the factions both feel entitled to grievances, and empathy is needed on BOTH sides of the fence. While the Have-Nots are frustrated by being told "be patient" by those who already have, the Haves are frustrated by being told "it's not fair" by the Have-Nots. Bottom line; the second you start telling people what they should or shouldn't do you're adding to the friction, not easing it. Complaining about other people complaining is still complaining, regardless how one tries to justify it (And yes I am aware this entire rant is a complaint, but at least it offers constructive criticisms too. Sarcasm does not equal nor foster empathy, even if you think you are joking).

I could end this on some moral high-road but I doubt the majority would have read this far and are likely furiously forming responses anyway. This picture sums it up better than anything I could ever say;

TL;DR; Do away with the uncertainty of weekly region releases. Stick to bigger releases. Hope maturity comes back into style.

 🏳️🏳️🏳️ (that's a white flag of surrender btw, not an axe, in case that upsets someone too).

[Sequoia Sojourner]

1 hour ago, Fionalein said:

1 hour ago, Alwin Alcott said:

i didn't notice this at all past weeks ... there are lóads of really nice mainland parcels available, and at mostly very reasonable prices.

LOL

• Do they come with a free mesh house?
• Do they come free of price?

you're comparing apples and oranges here ...

well they DO come with views of ugly boxes in the sky or enormous flat backdrop boxes on the ground, and a nice security boot blast if you dare attempt to walk in the neighborhood 

[Cam Mode]

11 hours ago, Cougar Sangria said:

 Reminds me of that one girl in Willie Wonka & the Chocolate Factory..."I want it now!"

 

https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/11/willy-wonka-chocolate-factory-star-denise-nickerson-dies-aged-62-10173045/

Sadly, the actress who played Violet Beauregarde just passed.

Have some blueberries in her honor and follow the advise of the

Oompa, Loompa, doom-pa-dee-da

If you're not greedy, you will go far
You will live in happiness too
Like the Oompa Loompa doom-pa-dee-do

[Zoya McDonnagh]

2 minutes ago, Cam Mode said:

https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/11/willy-wonka-chocolate-factory-star-denise-nickerson-dies-aged-62-10173045/

Sadly, the actress who played Violet Beauregarde just passed.

Have some blueberries in her honor and follow the advise of the

Oompa, Loompa, doom-pa-dee-da

If you're not greedy, you will go far
You will live in happiness too
Like the Oompa Loompa doom-pa-dee-do

damn Reading that I also see that Rip Torn passed away this week as well

[CynicismSells]

1 minute ago, Zoya McDonnagh said:

damn Reading that I also see that Rip Torn passed away this week as well

And Ross Perot

[kiramanell]

3 hours ago, CailetAmbrai said:

He’s afraid they’re peeking in his windows and he can’t see them doing it!

 

I think he's afraid of him peeping thru other ppl's windows, and the Linden seeing him do it. 😍

[Seba Serpente]

3 hours ago, Quartz Mole said:

No, while I don't know in detail what needs doing after we finish with a region, I do know some of the various steps between our finishing a region and it becoming available and, particularly since it involves people who are very busy anyway (including the Land team), it's no small task.   Furthermore, whatever your subjective impression may be of how many regions look ready, I attend our team meetings and use the same online forms and reports as do the other Moles, so I know what stage all the regions are at, and I can assure you that we release them as we complete each small batch.    

I'm deliberately being vague about how long a delay there is between my finishing off on a region and the region becoming available because the short answer is I don't know, and I don't want to fuel speculation, since plans can be disrupted by all sorts of unexpected events, ranging from the mundane, like unexpected staff absences because of illness, to the more unusual like the multitude of issues that keep requiring "unscheduled maintenance" .   However, in the normal course of events, I would say that generally, after we've finished with them, I'd expect the new regions to be released at some point over the next couple of days or so, taking into account weekends, public holidays and other potential disruptors 

The big limiting factor, I'm afraid, is how quickly we can finish the regions while still keeping up-to-date on other scheduled work.    We're working as fast as we can, but things take as long as they take.   

So let me this straight. You mentione quite a few times before that tou dont know the time it takes for them to release a region once you are done doing your part, but here, you say you do check some forms and you say that you know exactly at what stage each region is.

[Zoya McDonnagh]

5 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

I think he's afraid of him peeping thru other ppl's windows, and the Linden seeing him do it. 😍

This reminded me of many years ago when I was a guide in a (then) popular MMORPG. We had the ability to move around and observe undetected. Quite humorous to catch a troll in the act when you suddenly revealed yourself and you are standing directly between them and their target.

[Seba Serpente]

3 hours ago, CailetAmbrai said:

He’s afraid they’re peeking in his windows and he can’t see them doing it!

Everyone is welcomed to see my avatar at any time. I find this joke of yours pretty ridiculous.

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

7 minutes ago, Seba Serpente said:

3 hours ago, Quartz Mole said:

 

The big limiting factor, I'm afraid, is how quickly we can finish the regions while still keeping up-to-date on other scheduled work.    We're working as fast as we can, but things take as long as they take.   

So let me this straight. You mentione quite a few times before that tou dont know the time it takes for them to release a region once you are done doing your part, but here, you say you do check some forms and you say that you know exactly at what stage each region is.

Oh go lurk around and take some more photos and quit harassing the Moles please!!

[kiramanell]

1 minute ago, Seba Serpente said:

So let me this straight. You mentione quite a few times before that tou dont know the time it takes for them to release a region once you are done doing your part, but here, you say you do check some forms and you say that you know exactly at what stage each region is.

 

How's about you start showing the Moles some respect!? You already almost single-handedly caused the Moles to close off sims altogether, taking obnoxious, intrusive photes, constantly being rude to them, at every turn, accusing them and Lindens of the most outrageous things. It's this boorish behavior, as Beth mentioned earlier, which (among other things) is causing the Moles to retreat again from the community.  Have you no shame?!

[Seba Serpente]

4 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

How's about you start showing the Moles some respect!? You already almost single-handedly caused the Moles to close off sims altogether, taking obnoxious, intrusive photes, constantly being rude to them, at every turn, accusing them and Lindens of the most outrageous things. It's this boorish behavior, as Beth mentioned earlier, which (among other things) is causing the Moles to retreat again from the community.  Have you no shame?!

There are things you don't get to see. Sadly you can only talk about that you see here and about some exaggerated or false comments other makes.

[Trinity Blakewell]

Users are “only” allowed to abandon 5x a day? This is somehow a problem?

[Raevyn Addams]

4 minutes ago, Trinity1776 said:

Users are “only” allowed to abandon 5x a day? This is somehow a problem?

Oh, it was with the initial release of homes. That feels like a long time ago already... 

[Seba Serpente]

As much as people likes to interact with the employees, fornwhatever reason, I think is better, productivity wise, that they work in private. It's clearly no time to be part of the community and make friends with each other. Is time to work, and make the work right. People are enfuriated enough.

 

Let's take that idea of looking at lindens and moles as some mythical creatures of some sort and look it at what it is exacly, workers, just like pretty much everyone else, that happens to work on the virtual world you are so fan of. They get distracted, and they make errors too.