There really should be an SL2. Not Sansar.

[Bree Giffen]

I'm looking at kids playing Minecraft and Roblox and thinking to myself, "There's the next generation of SL users". It seems so obvious. Step 1 Minecraft/Roblox. Step 2.... Step 3 Profit! (Southpark reference). 

Step 2 should be Second Life but it's too old.. has too much baggage.. but is still ahead of those kid's games in terms of creative world building. I still think SL2 should be made. Using the simplified graphics style you see in many games now (See Fortnite/Overwatch) and upgraded building tools like SL prims v2 not Blender. I think the new gen (after the millenials) would move to it like bees to nectar. Maybe LL won't make it. Maybe it will take a young entrepreneur from the younger generation to see the opportunity and seize it. 

[Coffee Pancake]

Feel free to make and add more stylized content to SL ... everything you see is made by the residents, LL do not exercise any editorial influence at all, SL just looks the way it does because this is the junk we like to make and buy.

[McGrillen]

"simplified graphics style"

You mean cartoony?

Edited February 7, 2019 by McGrillen

[Chic Aeon]

44 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

I'm looking at kids playing Minecraft and Roblox and thinking to myself, "There's the next generation of SL users". It seems so obvious. Step 1 Minecraft/Roblox. Step 2.... Step 3 Profit! (Southpark reference). 

Step 2 should be Second Life but it's too old.. has too much baggage.. but is still ahead of those kid's games in terms of creative world building. I still think SL2 should be made. Using the simplified graphics style you see in many games now (See Fortnite/Overwatch) and upgraded building tools like SL prims v2 not Blender. I think the new gen (after the millenials) would move to it like bees to nectar. Maybe LL won't make it. Maybe it will take a young entrepreneur from the younger generation to see the opportunity and seize it. 

 

Actually there is quite a bit of that  "simplified graphics style" in Sansar and a fair amount of kids too.   As Coffee said, anyone can upload almost anything (with the TOS in mind of course). There are also options in the publishing of experiences that can MAKE your scene look "cartoony". I haven't used them, but they are there!   So maybe what you are asking for is "somewhat" already in production. There are no prims of course but people can purchase components that are sort of like mesh prims.  Eventually we will be able to resize things rather than just scale and that will make it easy to have mesh prims LOL.

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

10 minutes ago, McGrillen said:

"simplified graphics style"

You mean cartoony?

we already have that, it's called anime avatars

[McGrillen]

9 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

we already have that, it's called anime avatars

Do Fortnite characters look like something from an anime to you?

[BilliJo Aldrin]

4 minutes ago, McGrillen said:

Do Fortnite characters look like something from an anime to you?

I've never seen a Fortnite character, or anything to do with Fortnite at all, however i just googled it. They look like cartoons, but not like anime

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, Bree Giffen said:

I'm looking at kids playing Minecraft and Roblox and thinking to myself, "There's the next generation of SL users". It seems so obvious. Step 1 Minecraft/Roblox. Step 2.... Step 3 Profit! (Southpark reference). 

Step 2 should be Second Life but it's too old.. has too much baggage.. but is still ahead of those kid's games in terms of creative world building. I still think SL2 should be made. Using the simplified graphics style you see in many games now (See Fortnite/Overwatch) and upgraded building tools like SL prims v2 not Blender. I think the new gen (after the millenials) would move to it like bees to nectar. Maybe LL won't make it. Maybe it will take a young entrepreneur from the younger generation to see the opportunity and seize it. 

http://sinewave.space/

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Bree Giffen said:

Step 2 should be Second Life but it's too old.. has too much baggage.. but is still ahead of those kid's games in terms of creative world building. I still think SL2 should be made. Using the simplified graphics style you see in many games now (See Fortnite/Overwatch) and upgraded building tools like SL prims v2 not Blender. I think the new gen (after the millenials) would move to it like bees to nectar. Maybe LL won't make it. Maybe it will take a young entrepreneur from the younger generation to see the opportunity and seize it. 

The moment a determination is made about the overall graphic style of this new world is the moment it stops being a relative of Second Life.

[ThorinII]

I agree insofar that there should be an SL2.0 instead of Sansar. In my opinion, Sansar has been a dead birth, right from the start.

But it should be an SL2.0 with all the codes for servers and viewer written anew from scratch, without all the baggage on top of code written first about 15years ago; with a better viewer UI (= similar to V1.x, like the UI of Firestorm in Phoenix Mode); with an inworld mesh creating and optimizing tool; with better avatars, bigger regions and less region crossing troubles; and so on.

[Fritigern Gothly]

41 minutes ago, ThorinII said:

I agree insofar that there should be an SL2.0 instead of Sansar. In my opinion, Sansar has been a dead birth, right from the start.

But it should be an SL2.0 with all the codes for servers and viewer written anew from scratch, without all the baggage on top of code written first about 15years ago; with a better viewer UI (= similar to V1.x, like the UI of Firestorm in Phoenix Mode); with an inworld mesh creating and optimizing tool; with better avatars, bigger regions and less region crossing troubles; and so on.

 

That almost reads like you would enjoy OpenSim. In OpenSim, you can have regions up to 1024x1024, build well above 4096 meters, the code is constantly being optimized and modernized, the scripting language is LSL but has Opensim extensions which (amongst others) allows for notecard creation, NPCs, customized windlight settings, and much more.
OpenSim is extensible, meaning that if you can code (.Net/Mono), you can add functionality to the simulator, like for example, in-world mesh creation. 
The avatars in Opensim are not very good, but there is an already popular project underway to create what they call Ruth 2.0 and Roth 2.0 which are open source Mesh bodies+heads and is currently in RC3.
Bakes on Mesh has already been successfully tested in OpenSim but is not yet publically available, because the devs want to try to keep it as close to the SL version as possible, and until SL has set loose BoM on the main grid, the devs will hold back the OpenSim implementation of BoM.
Viewer-wise, there is a project in its early stages to create a web-based client, a completely new standalone client, or both (I am not 100% sure which one it is).

So... as far as SL 2.0 goes, using OpenSim, you can do a lot to approach what you envision for SL 2.0 🙂

P.S. As much as I sing the praises of OpenSim, which you can quite easily run on your own PC, it's not all peaches. You start with... nothing and finding stuff to use in OpenSim can be challenging at times but can be done. I use OpenSim alongside SL because I can import textures, animations, mesh, and whatnot for free and experiment to my heart's content 😉 

[Candice LittleBoots]

L$10 upload is the single reason why I've personally never bothered trying to create anything for SL.

I'm fussy. I'm picky. Everything would have to be just right before I'd be happy to call it finished.

L$10 x many, many attempts, tweaks and uploads would cost me thousands of Linden I'm simply not prepared to spend during the process.

[Fionalein]

1 minute ago, Candice LittleBoots said:

L$10 x many, many attempts, tweaks and uploads would cost me thousands of Linden I'm simply not prepared to spend during the process.

You know there is this betagrid thingie?

[Candice LittleBoots]

2 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

You know there is this betagrid thingie?

No 

I remember giving it thought 10 years ago and looked into it, and I'm not suggesting I'd've been any good, but I'll never know now. Without sounding defeatist, I honestly think that ship has sailed for me. The time has passed.

How long has the betagrid been available, since the birth of SL?

From where I've been sitting it's been well hidden.

[Qie Niangao]

4 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

You know there is this betagrid thingie?

Also temporary, local textures.

Also, I could make an argument for dramatically raising the upload fee for shared permanent textures. Or maybe better, a "texture tax" for having too many, too large textures rezzed or worn.

[Qie Niangao]

4 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

The moment a determination is made about the overall graphic style of this new world is the moment it stops being a relative of Second Life.

And yet I'd propose something even more radical: "my" SL2 would have very strict constraints on what an avatar can haul around as part of itself. That's not to constrain their appearance but to require consistency in the tools by which appearance can be customized. And there could be no such thing as an avatar that's "no-mod" using any of those tools, and there would simply be no way for a creator to produce an avatar by any means except using those tools.

Those tools may be arbitrarily complex, but they must be in-world. Maybe, to an extreme, embedded Avastar, Maya, whatever. But whatever they are, if the results are eligible for use as avatar, all textures and geometries would be fully available for the avatar-wearer to adjust and customize in-world.

Granted, that would reduce the competitive profit motive to produce new avatars, so maybe a certain class of avatar innovation would suffer, but another kind of innovation would be available that's missing now. Sure, anybody and everybody can break out Blender and start from scratch, but that's not practically available because every micro-level component is proprietary and protected from end-user access.

The real point, though, is to prevent the mess we're in with SL now having generations of incompatible -- and mostly obsolete yet still partially essential -- tools for customizing avatars. It has reached an unsustainable level of arcana. The objective is to design a customization framework that won't topple over in a decade, the way SL's avatar system has.

[Richardus Raymaker]

The problem with sansar is that the build tools are incomplete, defective. Missing functionality. And LL seems not to care very much about the editor. So far sansar is a fail. Comedy show's are not interesting to.

 

 Ut simplifite graohucs fir SL2 not really. Abetter framerate yes.

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

2 hours ago, Candice LittleBoots said:

How long has the betagrid been available, since the birth of SL?

From where I've been sitting it's been well hidden.

I don't remember when I first went to beta grid but local textures were available on TPVs when I started making things. That would be 8-9 years ago now. It used an exploit on the way avatar appearance was initially baked client-side and sent to the servers. When appearance became server-side, the exploit was broken but the Lindens recognised how useful it was and incorporated a new version into the official viewer.

Life's made me careful with money and how I spend it, so local textures were vital for me. I ran into talk about the feature and the beta grid on learn-to-create websites, in the forum, in Builders Brewery chat and from a friend. I came across the information naturally as I was learning other things I needed to know about.

Local textures is magic and loads of fun because you can see changes inworld every time you hit export in GIMP. If only it was so simple with mesh  

[Blush Bravin]

I've used the beta grid for years and years. First to test textures before local textures were available. Once local textures became available I didn't need to run over to Beta so stopped using it for some time. In the past couple of years I've learned Blender and began making mesh so once again I run over to the beta frequently. For those who make appliers using local textures is still doable if you have the handy little hud that spits out the UUID for the local texture which you can then drop into a script to apply to the mesh body you're using. Using local textures with instant application with every save in Gimp is nearly like drawing on an object real time. I absolutely love it and is the main reason I still make textures for SL.

[clivesteel]

But there IS a SL2...(or so it should be called, to avoid confusion)...

It's the 'SL' of mesh, sordid fashion blogs, style over substance...aka 'Poser World'...!

Creativity? Education? Adventure? No...get a Cat Wah head and stuff it with junk...SL1 died in 2014...

"Make YT videos exploring the ruins of World.com!" they say

"Why bother when you can set your home to Korea3?" I say.

[Blush Bravin]

Back on topic. I strayed with the beta grid and local textures comment. There is no point in even considering an SL 2 unless these two major points are accepted:

1. Residents give up the notion of being able to hang onto their current inventories, and

2. LL greatly restricts what can be uploaded into the world.

Neither of these will ever be accepted, so what's the point of even discussing the topic?

[chibiusa Ling]

33 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Back on topic. I strayed with the beta grid and local textures comment. There is no point in even considering an SL 2 unless these two major points are accepted:

1. Residents give up the notion of being able to hang onto their current inventories, and

2. LL greatly restricts what can be uploaded into the world.

Neither of these will ever be accepted, so what's the point of even discussing the topic?

I would accept it. I would happily start again if the world was decent enough.

[Blush Bravin]

11 minutes ago, chibiusa Ling said:

I would accept it. I would happily start again if the world was decent enough.

I would too, but we are in the oh so tiny minority.

[Bree Giffen]

14 hours ago, McGrillen said:

"simplified graphics style"

You mean cartoony?

Yes. Simplified, like a pixar person or any of that non-realistic art style you see in many CG movies. E,g. Into the Spider Verse. The tools would prevent any realism to be introduced. No outside avatars, no outside mesh brought in. Maybe even no outside textures. Everything would be provided in-world. Simpler streamlined creation that everyone participates in.

[Blush Bravin]

5 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

Yes. Simplified, like a pixar person or any of that non-realistic art style you see in many CG movies. E,g. Into the Spider Verse. The tools would prevent any realism to be introduced. No outside avatars, no outside mesh brought in. Maybe even no outside textures. Everything would be provided in-world. Simpler streamlined creation that everyone participates in.

How boring!