Men Not Liking Men: The Shocking Truth about Male-Pattern Loneliness in SL!

[Madelaine McMasters]

26 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Pretty sure immolating the mods is against forum rules.

Good forum management sometimes involves controlled burns.

[Storm Clarence]

Yes Scylla, it is cool to see you about, as well.  

You wrote: “…to see you falling back on such apparently absurdly crude stereotypes”

My response was to answer your OP:

"The alpha male has many friends: male and female, strong and weak, green and blue - and he is loyal to each. 

In today’s climate the alpha male faces different challenges, but he is a leader and he is successful in what he is and does.  He will always stay true to his friends (male and female) and they know this of him"

I don’t think there are any alpha males who would disagree with what I wrote.  I even suggested that we face challenges in todays world . . . and you throw another flawed, modern construct in your post, that of “toxic masculinity”.    There is nothing in my post that suggests violence, misogyny, or anything negative however you want to paint the alpha male with that one stroke - go figure.  I deplore violence!  

 

PS Most mass killings, as occurred in Toronto, are perpetrated by men.  Alpha or not.  I tend to think that they are not - they seem to be loners, no girlfriends, no social leadership, etc. But please correct me if I’m wrong,

Edited December 2, 2018 by Storm Clarence

[Scylla Rhiadra]

31 minutes ago, Storm Clarence said:

I don’t think there are any alpha males who would disagree with what I wrote.  I even suggested that we face challenges in todays world . . . and you throw another flawed, modern construct in your post, that of “toxic masculinity”.    There is nothing in my post that suggests violence, misogyny, or anything negative however you want to paint the alpha male with that one stroke - go figure.  I deplore violence!

I guess what I am querying, Storm, is the division of men into "alphas" and "betas." Like most arbitrary binary divisions (good/bad, men/women, heterosexual/homosexual, white/POC), it's an arrangement designed to establish the value and superiority of the first term by denigrating the second. It's a remarkably reductive and, ultimately, destructive way to divide men up into "winners" and "losers." By establishing the superiority of the "alpha," you are, in a sense, generating the angst, depression, fear, and hatred that has provoked the violence in some of those you have thrust the designation of "beta" upon.

Surely it's not necessary to stigmatize those who are uncomfortable with the standards of masculinity that you (not women) have established and defined?

It's a bit ironic that women (and feminists in particular) are so often accused of trying to "destroy" men. It seems to me that you're doing a pretty good job of that without any assistance from us.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Scylla Rhiadra

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Pretty sure immolating the mods is against forum rules.

 

55 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Good forum management sometimes involves controlled burns.

 

I checked the Community Guidelines and the TOS.  Have at it Maddy.

[Storm Clarence]

I am establishing the superiority of the alpha male when it comes to friends - as your OP asked in discussion.  What I wrote is a fact, and there are no alpha males who find this distasteful.  Alpha's survive on friendships and leadership.  My friends are my friends and there are other alpha's in our circle - we don't contend for superiority - we enjoy our friendships.

If I, as you so kindly wrote, am doing a pretty good job of destroying men then there you have it - there is no fixing your way of thinking.  And there is no fixing my thinking based on what you wrote.  I speak of the alpha male in terms of friendships (your OP) and leadership and loyalty and you equate it to toxic masculinity; the mass murderer.  I am whatever you think I am - my friends (male and female) know who I am.  

  

[Love Zhaoying]

19 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I guess what I am querying, Storm, is the division of men into "alphas" and "betas." Like most arbitrary binary divisions (good/bad, men/women, heterosexual/homosexual, white/POC), it's an arrangement designed to establish the value and superiority of the first term by denigrating the second. It's a remarkably reductive and, ultimately, destructive way to divide men up into "winners" and "losers." By establishing the superiority of the "alpha," you are, in a sense, generating the angst, depression, fear, and hatred that has provoked the violence in some of those you have thrust the designation of "beta" upon.

Surely it's not necessary to stigmatize those who are uncomfortable with the standards of masculinity that you (not women) have established and defined?

It's a bit ironic that women (and feminists in particular) are so often accused of trying to "destroy" men. It seems to me that you're doing a pretty good job of that without any assistance from us.

I grew up as an Omega, so there.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Storm Clarence said:

you equate it to toxic masculinity; the mass murderer

That's not actually what I did, Storm, at least, not in the rather uncomplicated way you suggest.

What I AM saying is that your division of men into Alphas and Betas, and your denigration of the latter in order to establish the superiority of the former, creates a dynamic of "winners" and "losers" that is likely to generate fear, hatred, despair, and, ultimately, violence.

I have no idea how you are defining "Alpha" here, except insofar as I've seen it defined elsewhere. It seems to have a great deal to do with having "success" with women. Can you please find another criterion upon which to found your conception? Maybe, say, "Men able to command unquestioning obedience from their dogs"?

I'd rather not be implicated, as a woman, in what I find a pretty distasteful hierarchy.

[Storm Clarence]

12 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

 

I have no idea how you are defining "Alpha" here, except insofar as I've seen it defined elsewhere. It seems to have a great deal to do with having "success" with women. Can you please find another criterion upon which to found your conception? Maybe, say, "Men able to command unquestioning obedience from their dogs"?

  

I am defining my world, my friendship list, based on your tl;dr (but I did) OP.  Insofar as success with women - yes!  I have been with my 'woman' for 28 years. Uninterrupted years. Monogamous years!  So thank you for noticing.

[Luna Bliss]

[Luna Bliss]

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Luna, he sounds pretty perfect. 🙂

He is, but his life has been stunted due to those creeps who bullied him throughout his childhood. I mean they really did a number on him with their toxic masculinity (would only accept that males should be hyper-masculine, super strong and into sports with none of this "sensitive and intellectual stuff", and so felt justified in demeaning him). He never quite got over the bullying and so relationships with his subsequent male son and stepsons with his 2nd wife suffered -- they became so estranged that they barely speak. Even therapy didn't fix his wariness of males.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Luna Bliss

[Callum Meriman]

3 hours ago, Jagix Linden said:

"Only you can prevent forum fires." -Smokey the Jagix

 

3 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

...sets you on fire.

That's super kind of you Madelaine Jagix will be nice and warm down in the damp and cold Linden Lab Governance Dungeon.

[Love Zhaoying]

Here is an expert treaties on males:

 

[Love Zhaoying]

3 hours ago, Donna Underall said:

Poor babies.  I wish I knew how to help their widdle bum rash.

Is naht rash! Is burn from de spankins!

[Klytyna]

2 hours ago, Storm Clarence said:

The alpha male has many friends

Historically.... NO.

What they tend to have is sycophantic hangers on, rivals, enemies, temporary allies, and backstabbing traitors...

Other "alphas" see them as a threat to be undermined and eliminated, "betas" see them as the tyrants and bullies that you either suck up to, or gang up on...

2 hours ago, Storm Clarence said:

I don’t think there are any alpha males who would disagree with what I wrote.

Not much of an argument, I'm sure most fascist dictators, for example, would agree that fascist dictators are FINE fellows..

Claiming that people who believe a particular creed will agree with a particular creed establishes nothing.

2 hours ago, Storm Clarence said:

There is nothing in my post that suggests violence, misogyny, or anything negative

Oh I don't know, personally I found your fraudulent claim that "women want to go with the alpha male" "regardless of which tickbox" to be pretty dismissive of the percentage of the female population who wouldn't touch a man voluntarily.

Claiming that women automatically want to go with the alpha male, carries that taint of "there aint no lesbians, just chicks i aint cured yet with my boy dangle...".

2 hours ago, Storm Clarence said:

I deplore violence!

Then you are obviously not an alpha... As violence is the basis of alpha status...

The Alpha is in charge because he will hurt those to defy him, that's how alphas work in pack animals, always has been.

2 hours ago, Storm Clarence said:

Most mass killings, as occurred in Toronto, are perpetrated by men.  Alpha or not.  I tend to think that they are not - they seem to be loners, no girlfriends, no social leadership, etc.

Alpha wannabes attempting to establish dominance by instilling fear... Grab shotgun, march into school locker room, eliminate Chad and Brett who get all the girls, establish Alphaness! Ask Sue to suck your boy dangle, eliminate the un-natural ho when she says no, cleanse the pack, be the LEADER!

2 hours ago, Storm Clarence said:

I am establishing the superiority of the alpha male when it comes to friends

You haven't established that at all.

2 hours ago, Storm Clarence said:

What I wrote is a fact

No, it's not.

2 hours ago, Storm Clarence said:

and there are no alpha males who find this distasteful.

And back to "no alpha-wannabe will disagree with the credo of the cult of the alpha-wannabe". Proves very little.

2 hours ago, Storm Clarence said:

Alpha's survive on friendships and leadership.  My friends are my friends and there are other alpha's in our circle - we don't contend for superiority - we enjoy our friendships.

If you are not contending... You're not Alphas... Alphas don't have alpha friends, they have rivals, and sometimes temporary allies, not friends.

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

What I AM saying is that your division of men into Alphas and Betas, and your denigration of the latter in order to establish the superiority of the former, creates a dynamic of "winners" and "losers" that is likely to generate fear, hatred, despair, and, ultimately, violence.

Violence is the essence and basis of the Alpha...

Members of the pack who do not obey must be punished, rivals must be eliminated...

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It seems to have a great deal to do with having "success" with women.

It varies with generation and culture...

In some times and places, it's based on killing a lion with a spear in single combat, in others it's based on the believability of the lies you tell about how many beers you drank and how many chicks you shagged in the Frat house the night before...

1 hour ago, Storm Clarence said:

Insofar as success with women - yes!  I have been with my 'woman' for 28 years. Uninterrupted years. Monogamous years!

So, not Alpha behavior... The Alpha goes out seeking conquest, to spread his "superior genes", that's how alpha's work in nature, that is the nature of alphas, 

Kill or drive off the weak and the independent, shag many chicks, leave many sons, who will grow up to stab you in the back and turn on each other to replace you as the LEADER!

This is where a lot of the "toxic masculinity" comes from, the father who Majored in Football, who will not accept that his son would rather play chess. The father who humped his way through 387 co-eds in Uni, who cannot accept that his son prefers guys.

It's fairly common.

...

Here's an interesting historical fact for you, from the days when "alphas" didn't face the "challenges of the modern world".

In Athens, 2500 years ago, one of the greatest social problems of the day was...

"Father Beating" - Young alpha-wannabe males who decided they didn't want to wait for the old man to roll over and die before they inherited, so they would beat him up and throw him out of the house, and thus establish their "alpha dominance"...

...

Perhaps thats at the root of the "men not liking men" thing...

Too many are assuming that the Cult of the alpha is the be all and end all, and under that dogma, OTHER men are not "friends" because they are plotting against you, to steal your share of the mammoth steak, shag your females and kick you out of the cave!
 

[JJack Montreal]

Well, Klyt, i won't say its fact, you too biased to be objective. The only real proof you show is your hatred of men. But its ok the feelin is mutual , at least mutual between men and hardcore feminazies . But i just feel there is something hypocrite with you. Reading all your stuff something tells me you not really a woman so what worth the opinion of someone who hate is own gender while identify to the other gender. Also the description of alpha males is definitly the alpha male from most mammal species. But not in all mammal species males behave like this and mankind is not one of them.

Edited December 3, 2018 by JJack Montreal

[Klytyna]

4 minutes ago, JJack Montreal said:

Well, Klytony

Well "J-J-J-Jock M-M-M-Mantroll", I can't say I'm surprised at your reply, it's the classic Failed-Alpha-Wannabe response...

"Women who can use computers, know historical & science stuff, and won't suck boy dangle cannot possibly exist, because lesbians are just chicks I haven't stuck my micro-dangle in yet!"

So, essentially, your answer is just more pointless failed-alpha-wannabe web-hero posturing. So what is YOUR opinion worth?

PS. You still haven't shown us that "Roman Feminazism" you claimed existed... Having trouble finding a link to the right scene from HBO's "Spurtacus" on youtube?

 

[JJack Montreal]

Oh i don't bother with that Klyt, it was yesterday. I don't really come in this forum to prove anything, just killing time on a 12 hour shift. And it work well. Yesterday passed like a charm and today is looking good.

[ellestones]

8 hours ago, Storm Clarence said:

In SL, as in real life there are two types of males (regardless of what facebook box you check): the alpha male, and everyone else.  

if we were to replace male with female, he with she, and effeminize with dehoyden, would the assertion hold up to scrutiny. If so then why so?  And if not then why not?

maybe a why not is that there is no such thing as a alpha female. Or a why not may be than while there may be alpha females then the assertion doesn't make any sense. Or a why not may be the argument is only true when applied to alpha males and not to alpha females because alpha females are not alpha males. Or an if so may be that it only applies to alpha males and alpha females when we believe it to be true. Or an if so may be that unless a person is a alpha female then they will never understand the assertion

Edited December 3, 2018 by ellestones
he with

[iamyourneighbour]

Hm I think the thread is over analyzing a small group, I just like to create cities and play SL like the Sims and watch my L$ grow. One of my tenants live free, male btw, since he has been giving me hit product ideas since very long time ago, I have never met the guy IRL. 

People have different ambitions and wants in life, the observation may be true to your immediate friend circle of males but other people got wide range of stuff and things they enjoy. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by iamyourneighbour

[ellestones]

18 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

 USA's lack of social health care

i only put this topic into the discussion as the underlying context of the thread is what do men think about. And when they say what they think about, then the follow up to this is, why do men think as they do ?

so Jack said what he thinks. So I follow up with why does he think like that? and what might be a contributing reason for it?

on the topic I raised then as both you and I are not from the USA and live in countries that do have basic universal healthcare then we often find it odd to see a country largely similar to ours where they don't have this.  While it does perplex me I think that is for the USA people to work this out for themselves. They are doing this now, debating the pros and cons, and advocating their respective positions thru the democratic electoral process. This is a good thing and I have faith that the USA people will arrive at a solution which will be acceptable to a significant majority of USA people

is kinda on topic this subject, if only abstractly, as it does mean US men do think about this also. And in doing so then how they see their relationship to other men and to women will impact on their thinking  

[Sassy Kenin]

49 minutes ago, ellestones said:

if we were to replace male with female, he with she, and effeminize with dehoyden, would the assertion hold up to scrutiny.

Yes, they just use words as weapons. they do not need to display aggression to get respect from the betas.

Fun Fact - most alpha females will be 85% more likely to give birth to a daughter even if the father is a alpha

 

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Shansi Kenin
Added a video to a real Alpha Female

[Gopi Passiflora]

I don't really use male human avatars as much as my female human avis, so they don't have any friends on their list, except for my alts. I do know from experience in MMOs that they would get less attention than female humans.

My female human avis have some "friends" (both male and female), although I think most of them are just there because they found my avatar attractive. (I added them before I became more selective about who I "friend".)

But my avi with the most friends is my male alien avatar (Although most of my friends are female. I also have on that account the closest person I would consider a "real" friend in SL That is because we have a shared interest.) I guess that is because I tend to represent my real life personality and interests most accurately under that avi. (No, I'm not a real alien. But I feel more myself as a non-human avi. Kinda hard to explain.)

[Storm Clarence]

2 hours ago, Klytyna said:

 

...

Here's an interesting historical fact for you, from the days when "alphas" didn't face the "challenges of the modern world".

In Athens, 2500 years ago, one of the greatest social problems of the day was...

"Father Beating" - Young alpha-wannabe males who decided they didn't want to wait for the old man to roll over and die before they inherited, so they would beat him up and throw him out of the house, and thus establish their "alpha dominance"...

...

Perhaps thats at the root of the "men not liking men" thing...

Too many are assuming that the Cult of the alpha is the be all and end all, and under that dogma, OTHER men are not "friends" because they are plotting against you, to steal your share of the mammoth steak, shag your females and kick you out of the cave!
 

Do you deep inhale each axilla before you post?  Just asking.

[Klytyna]

8 minutes ago, Storm Clarence said:

Do you deep inhale each axilla before you post?  Just asking.

Do I sniff armpits of failed-alpha-male-wannabes-online before refuting their gibberish, no.

Not sure why you think armpit sniffing is a prerequisite of refuting fact free macho-uber-alles bs. Maybe it's some bizarre alpha-wannabe ritual.

Drink beer, belch, fart, sniff each others armpits, lie about how superior you are... That sort of thing.

You do score 1/10 for the pseudo-intellectual use of a fancy word for armpit though.

Well done.
 

[Magnek Fang]

Right, I've been both genders and I havn't really noticed any real difference in how I'm treated. In my older days I've been hit on as either gender, and nowadays I either wander all over the place, or chill with tinies.

Anyways, there really shouldn't be any difference in how the two genders interact, and I know that toxic masculinity is a thing (hell, Gamergate is just a symptom). Then again it's not a good idea to assume that one gender or another is a monolith. For one, you'd never know who's behind the screen.