NEW GATCHA CATEGORY NEEDED

[Marx Alvord]

Is it worth suggesting and possible to create a new category for Gatchas? Bring it up at the next round table please?

Because right now, these gatcha uploads are destroying the marketplace. Is there a reason they cannot have their very own listing category? They are burying every single other category and many of these (most)  of these gatchas include huge sets that also include a hat, pants, shirt, top, necklace, gun, weapon, goggles etc etc etc.. you get my point. This is a daily issue. Everyday. Not some random event. When you release a product and it is instantly buried under a mountain of Gatchas with an hour.. like by 30-50 uploads, how can anyone seeing this not think how destructive it is for the overall marketplace or for gods sake the average consumer who just wants to shop for a single hat to not have to filter through these things. 

I have customers who cannot find my items. I have to send them a link to it. Really so now I have to sit here and pass out links instead of working. Oh they eventually do find it on their own. And their number one response? "Oh Wait I founnnnnddd it Marx, its on Page 30 and after only 6 hours. Just wow!

Gatchas are not evil. But they do need their own category. I'D be glad to even make some myself some day. But id expect to sell them under a Gatcha Category. just As i do when i sell a hat, or anything else.

Back to work so I can continue to get buried.

[Claireschen Hesten]

There is a section on the marketplace for Gachas otherwise known as "Used Items" unfortunately too many gacha products aren't listed in it and you have to preclude them from category browsing and search by typing NOT gacha in the search box 

[Marx Alvord]

There is a section on the marketplace for Gachas otherwise known as "Used Items" unfortunately too many gacha products aren't listed in it and you have to preclude them from category browsing and search by typing NOT gacha in the search box Claireschen Hesten

 

Rather a$$ backwards but ok.. This is kinda like changing out the battery on a car that actually has a flat tire. lol.

GATHA OWN CATEGORY!!!

[Adrianne Stormcrow]

I agree with Marx Alvord, it is insane since those gacha events got bigger and bigger and people dropping their doubles on the marketplace and then when u put your stuff you worked on at the marketplace it gets buried by gacha stuff. A lot people don't even care to look what catagory they put their stuff. I often when i search for full perm stuff ( i am a template designer) and i see there people who put their stuff for sale there also I even made a notecard with that they put it in the wrong category etc and explain where to put it and stuff, is that my job to do so ?? no it's not LL should hire someone who is managing the marketplace site, they take a fee from whatever we sell there....you should think that they make sure they set up the marketplace in a logic style and easy for everyone to work with

[Marx Alvord]

Totally Agreed! I dont mind flagging an occasional product. But LL has made Tens of thousands off my brand.  My customers shouldn't have to click click click and filter like this to find out whats simply new on the MP. And for those that are going to scream this Marketplace isn't intended for World Source clothing, hair, animations etc etc, and not really for content creators, than Id like to see a declaration direction from Linden Labs Themselves stating so. Every single Content Creator or designer making stuff for the use in Second Life should be right here screaming and yelling at the top of their lungs until they are heard. It wouldn't be wrong. Id even be happy to head up to Linden Council itself and sit down and show them without contraints in place to protect their own Marketplace, its gonna be an ugly place to work in. 

Question of the day. How many Top Designers have left Sl completely and taken their wares with them, over crap like this and how many more are we going to have to lose?

Going back to work.

[Marx Alvord]

Oh and fyi, Gatcha should have its own Category/sub categories/ etc etc and all such keywords expressed shouldn't be able to be keyed in to the general marketplace.. like if I am in Hats/.. that is a sub category for Accessories/ it ends with Hats.. I am sorry but Gatcha shouldn't be hijacking the entire string /Accessories and because a gatcha has 1 or 50 hats in it, it still shouldn't be listed in /Hats... it should be under Gatcha/Hats, etc etc..  

Still 5000 more gatchas loaded since I started this session lol.

 

[Dakota Linden]

Greetings all!

A Gatcha hat is still a hat.  The seller/reseller can place the item into the Hats sub-category, or the Used Items category on the Marketplace and both category options would be appropriate for the item.

Creating a set of Categories and sub-categories strictly for Gatcha items would result in a duplication of all of the current, and any future, Marketplace categories, and would not resolve the issues raised.

Some users would put their non Gatcha items into the Gatcha item categories, and some users would still put Gatcha items into the non Gatcha categories, resulting in even bigger issues with category selections for items.

The Marketplace Listing Guidelines already outline, and cover, issues like Category Selection, Keyword Spam, and Item Spam, which are the issues raised in this thread.

When a creator lists a new item on the Marketplace, they should be sending out the link to their Marketplace Storefront for their customers. Their customers can then sort the merchant's store by Newest items to see the new products instead of just sending out an announcement that there are new items in their store.

For your convenience, Marx, here is the direct link to your Marketplace store:  https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/18884

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by Dakota Linden
typo

[Chase01]

Just to piggyback off of what @Dakota Linden said. I am not sure if this applies to any of the vendors here, but please include links to your MP store and storefront in your Flickr posts. I can't tell you how many vendors don't include pertinent details including, links, dates, etc.

I have literally had to e-mail, send a NC, or an IM to some vendors asking where their MP store, or storefront is because I was struggling to find it. Not everyone is willing to work that hard, and in some cases, I too just simply move on.

Here is a great example of one vendor I follow.

 

 

[Jewel Nova]

When I want to filter out gacha, I check no transfer. Pretty easy. That being said, I detest gacha being on the MP at all. Gacha WAS a game, a hunting type of game where you attempted to collect a set via the machine, then you tp'd about searching for your missing pieces. There was a community and it was a good community. Now, its all on MP the fun has gone out of gacha and cheats have taken advantage of not being accountable [as they would have to be inworld] to exploit gacha. Disallow gacha resale on MP entirely is my steadfast opinion. 

[Charlotte Bartlett]

I would avoid putting marketplace links on Flickr - they would likely consider the item an Ad they can be tricky with stuff like that.

It would be nice if people have them on the front of their SL profiles with the store link like Dakota said - you can also sort yourself your store to the newest item - copy that longer link and use url shortener to put it in profile.

[Cindy Evanier]

2 hours ago, Charlotte Bartlett said:

would avoid putting marketplace links on Flickr - they would likely consider the item an Ad they can be tricky with stuff like that.

Yeah I got my hand slapped for this earlier this week with a warning email and had to go through and remove all the MP links.  

[Cilene Inglewood]

This topic seems to have resolved (with Dakota's answer). However, I wanted to respond to @JewelQuest's response: I disagree. Gacha is still the thrill of trying to get that *one* or few items that you really want from one machine...and as we're getting closer to the opening of the December round of The Arcade - some friends and I have been talking about that thrill. It's a meme: I could go onto MP and buy the thing for 100L and get it right away...or I could *try* to get it myself by throwing 50L into the machine...and the people I talk to...would rather take their chance on the machine - even if that means spending WAY more than 100L. So - to say that gacha shouldn't be allowed on the MP is short-sighted. The MP has been a great tool for selling extra Gacha - and although the return on investment is low - based on the time it takes to set up the item for sale on the MP - it's better for the consumer and the seller. Both a win-win. The only people missing out are the yard sale owners. I don't have all day trying to find that *one* item on the grid that I didn't know existed until 9 months later...I go to the MP...see if someone is selling it and determine if it's worth it. It's still a valuable item - to me and to the person that benefits from the sale that they otherwise wouldn't have had...sitting in a poorly organized and marketed sales yard with 1000s of other items.

[Lys1990]

Gatcha should be banned, but not from Martketplace. It should be banned from in-world too. 

Gatcha is just a form of gambling and illegal in most countries in the world. But unlike SL Casinos, its oddly allowed which is strange and Linden Labs by allowing it to continue and even actively supporting it (like on these Shop & Hop  Event) where minors and children can access this gambling machines, they are violating not only US but also international laws. 

 

Gatcha should, if ever, only be allowed to people over 21, who have a verified their age via a SSN (Social security number), Tax-number or identification card/passport) and who live in countries which allow gambling. And item created for gatcha would need to be flagged specifically so they can only be trade between other people who live in countries which allow gambling and are age verified (see above).

It's morally reprehensible to allow such things to exist in SL. I for my part will make sure to notify the EU and my countries local authorities about this illegal gambling activities in SL so they can take legal steps against Linden Labs

[JJ Hoobinoo]

Dakota does indeed provide the official LL response. And it's a consistent response to the consistent posts/tickets that "gachas need their own category" requests.  

@Jewelquest 100% correct seach for ONLY no transfer products. It  is how I avoid the dreaded gacha or what I call more correctly "gotchas" with the number of scammers on MP and in-world.

@ All Gacha merchants - In my eyes you aren't a merchant. You are a used second-hand re-seller. You didn't create anything; you didn't PhotoShop anything; you didn't script anything; you didn't apply an ounce of creativity to the world we call Second Life. You also can't provide any customer service, fix any item bugs or send out updated product improvements. 

@Dakota and LL - In my opinion your position is based more upon the limitations of LL MP architecture than any sense of fairness to merchants or consumers.  Given your reason why gachas can be outside of the category, why have the used category? I would surmise that it was left as a catch-all "Other" category and that is all.

[Claireschen Hesten]

On 28/12/2017 at 5:25 PM, Lys1990 said:

Gatcha should be banned, but not from Martketplace. It should be banned from in-world too. 

Gatcha is just a form of gambling and illegal in most countries in the world.

Gatcha should, if ever, only be allowed to people over 21,

Gacha's exist in RL too and they are marketed towards children with toy's and figures of cartoon characters i see them in the supermarket they have them at the end of the checkouts/exit area in vending machines explicitly labelled as a Gacha when i was a kid you'd see similar outside the newsagent put 20p in and out would pop a plastic egg with a random flimsy adjustable metal ring inside that turned your finger green

[Suki Hirano]

On 11/10/2017 at 8:13 PM, JewelQuest said:

When I want to filter out gacha, I check no transfer. Pretty easy. That being said, I detest gacha being on the MP at all. Gacha WAS a game, a hunting type of game where you attempted to collect a set via the machine, then you tp'd about searching for your missing pieces. There was a community and it was a good community. Now, its all on MP the fun has gone out of gacha and cheats have taken advantage of not being accountable [as they would have to be inworld] to exploit gacha. Disallow gacha resale on MP entirely is my steadfast opinion. 

So basically you're saying just because you like spending 2 hours hopping inworld to find 1 item, and probably not even find it, instead of 2min on the marketplace, everyone should keep you company? Are you one of those people who think that just because they "miss walking and breathing fresh air", cars shouldn't have been invented and everyone should walk 2 hours to work like you? If you don't like using marketplace to buy gachas, here's a genius idea: how about just don't use it yourself? Problem solved. Excuse me for not wanting to bear the stupid lag of gacha yardsales and spending 2 frickin hours to search for items and 99% of the time don't even find it, or find it being overpriced.

Lol and people being "accountable" selling gachas just because it's inworld? How naive are you? You realize it takes literally less than 20min to make a team of 20+ alts? And that gacha items are all transferrable? It's actually LESS SAFE to buy gachas inworld, why? Cause you can't even leave a review or report them if they sell you an empty box. At least on marketplace if you got scammed you could flag/report + leave a scathing review, granted it might not do anything but at least better than nothing.

/facepalm

Edited January 6, 2018 by Suki Hirano

[Prokofy Neva]

On 10/16/2017 at 7:31 PM, Marx Alvord said:

Is it worth suggesting and possible to create a new category for Gatchas? Bring it up at the next round table please?

Because right now, these gatcha uploads are destroying the marketplace. Is there a reason they cannot have their very own listing category? They are burying every single other category and many of these (most)  of these gatchas include huge sets that also include a hat, pants, shirt, top, necklace, gun, weapon, goggles etc etc etc.. you get my point. This is a daily issue. Everyday. Not some random event. When you release a product and it is instantly buried under a mountain of Gatchas with an hour.. like by 30-50 uploads, how can anyone seeing this not think how destructive it is for the overall marketplace or for gods sake the average consumer who just wants to shop for a single hat to not have to filter through these things. 

I have customers who cannot find my items. I have to send them a link to it. Really so now I have to sit here and pass out links instead of working. Oh they eventually do find it on their own. And their number one response? "Oh Wait I founnnnnddd it Marx, its on Page 30 and after only 6 hours. Just wow!

Gatchas are not evil. But they do need their own category. I'D be glad to even make some myself some day. But id expect to sell them under a Gatcha Category. just As i do when i sell a hat, or anything else.

Back to work so I can continue to get buried.

I don't believe this is the problem you suggest because I watch the stream of "what people are buying" and it is rarely a gatcha, it's usually some kind of adult thing or clothing. 

Even so, I'd support your proposal for the simple reason that trying to find the category for the gatcha is just a huge chore often, and the Lindens are too punitive on this and dump your gatcha off the MP if they think you put it in the wrong category.

So I am for having a mandatory rule that all gatchas must go into USED and that's it.

This would stream line the upload process for those of us selling many gatchas. People don't browse through a category to find a gatcha, they type in a request for a very specific gatcha set or item based on what they see in front of them on the machine. So it's no loss.

[SedonaOnidene]

On 10/16/2017 at 4:31 PM, Marx Alvord said:

 

Because right now, these gatcha uploads are destroying the marketplace. Is there a reason they cannot have their very own listing category? They are burying every single other category and many of these (most)  of these gatchas include huge sets that also include a hat, pants, shirt, top, necklace, gun, weapon, goggles etc etc etc.. you get my point. This is a daily issue. Everyday. Not some random event. When you release a product and it is instantly buried under a mountain of Gatchas with an hour.. like by 30-50 uploads, how can anyone seeing this not think how destructive it is for the overall marketplace or for gods sake the average consumer who just wants to shop for a single hat to not have to filter through these things. 

 

I am a reseller of Gacha's but I can sympathize with you. There are some reseller's who do not abide by the listing rules for the MP at all. But, I find the same to be true for non-gachas. I can't tell you how many times I have gone to search for something and not matter how specific I am, i.e, women's white pants; I have to wade through all kinds of items that have nothing to do with women's white pants. So, it happens with non-gachas too. LL set's up rules for listings but does not enforce them people list as they please.

[Dakota Linden]

On 2/15/2018 at 11:37 AM, SedonaOnidene said:

I am a reseller of Gacha's but I can sympathize with you. There are some reseller's who do not abide by the listing rules for the MP at all. But, I find the same to be true for non-gachas. I can't tell you how many times I have gone to search for something and not matter how specific I am, i.e, women's white pants; I have to wade through all kinds of items that have nothing to do with women's white pants. So, it happens with non-gachas too. LL set's up rules for listings but does not enforce them people list as they please.

Hello SedonaOnidene!

Linden Lab enforces the Marketplace Listing Guidelines, IF we are informed that there is an issue. If you find items with Keyword Spam or that are in an incorrect category. PLEASE take the time to report the item to us using the 'Flag this item' link that is on every listing. 

This is the only way we know that there is an issue with the listing. 

There are well over 5 million items on the Marketplace and it is absolutely not possible for Linden Lab to moderate or address all of those items without the help of yourself and the other residents who use the Marketplace.

The only way these types of issues can be addressed and resolved is with the help of everyone. 

 

[Dorientje Woller]

All fine and well, but when these gacha's are starting to overwhelm my Facebook page, coz I am linked to several groups to send out my dj scheduling in Second Life, I am starting to have an issue with it.

- I do suggest you start to study the California Gambling Law (where you are located as company), especially the section of Illegal Gambling Devices. When you put both together, allowing gacha's in SL is a criminal offense.

- Secondary, as several European countries have started their hunt down on lootboxes, treasure crates, lockboxes and everything remotely smelling to named items in world or in game, with fines to 500K US Dollars or 5 years prison time (double when minors (less then 21 years in some countries) are involved), to prevent the player from falling into a gambling addiction and of which EA, Blizzard, UbiSoft, BioWare and several others have adapted their "business" model.

You're free to do what you want, but it wouldn't be wise to drag your customers in the gray side of the law.

[Solar Legion]

1. They already had their crackdown on Gambling.
2. Ah yes, the newer laws that are nothing more than knee-jerk reactions to a "problem" that could have been handled quite differently .... 
3. Linden Lab has their own lawyers - they'll consult them before listening to a general user.

[Sasy Scarborough]

I do not mind so much that gachas are on MP what I do find really annoying is when a creator/store put their own Gacha purchases on their store pages...MAKE AN ALT....If someone directs me to the direct link to a store and the first ten listings are not their own items that is such an epic branding fail to me, at the time of the listing it is their newest items, because made by them or not it is new. It is also unfair to those that do not really understand gachas and reselling, and may think that what they are buying is the creation of that seller, the seller they went to buy from, so then if an issue with the item, 'who you gonna call?' it most certainly won't be Ghostbusters! Which could lead to not only them being bummed out that an item is broken, not as cool as they imagined etc, it leaves a bad taste in their mouth about the sellers store because they have no idea what they purchased was not made by them.

If LL would be so kind as to give creators a second store front so that they can divide such things, it would be a nice thing to do for discounted items as well keeping it to their own creations, some stores do not like their older stuff but it still sells, some just want to keep mesh as the forefront and so on, giving a creator the chance to have a second MP front without having to change perms, create alt send to alt to be relisted, would be a marvelous thing.

 

 

[Blush Bravin]

1 hour ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

I do not mind so much that gachas are on MP what I do find really annoying is when a creator/store put their own Gacha purchases on their store pages...MAKE AN ALT

Totally agree. I haven't done this in a long time but since Blush has all the money she's more likely to play a gacha machine. If that happens and I have extras I always send them to Debi so she can list them. I wouldn't ever put a gacha in my Blushed MP store.