Ban Lines at 1300 Meters?

[Jennifer Boyle]

 I was flying my helicopter at 1,300 meters over Zindra and was shot down by ban lines. I am used to being shot down by security orbs, but have gotten better at avoiding that by flying fast and not passing close to skyboxes. I purposely fly fairly high to avoid ban lines. How can ban lines be present at 1300 meters? I investigated afterward without the helicopter, and I could clearly see ban lines. I thought ban lines stopped at something like 200 or 300 meters, and I can remember in the past bouncing along on top of areas from which I was banned.  Has something changed? Do ban lines now go higher than they used to? What's going on?

[Nova Convair]

Ban lines are 50m over ground.

If you are explicitly banned it's 5000m over ground.

[Jennifer Boyle]

Oh! I guess I must have flown over the same parcel in the past and run afoul of some kind of security script that added me to the parcel ban list. 

Why do people feel the need to be jerks? It wouldn't cost them a thing to let me fly over their land for a few seconds.

[Alwin Alcott]

3 minutes ago, Jennifer Boyle said:

 

Why do people feel the need to be jerks?

i agree... as you state it this way, why do those jerks always think they can free access the land where others pay for...

 

this fly or not fly discussion is so often done, the for's and againsts are pretty clear.

This one is locked for you, use the minimap and you can see where you have access or not. Dont whine.

[Ceka Cianci]

1 minute ago, Alwin Alcott said:

i agree... as you state it this way, why do those jerks always think they can free access the land where others pay for...

 

this fly or not fly discussion is so often done, the for's and againsts are pretty clear.

This one is locked for you, use the minimap and you can see where you have access or not. Dont whine.

Wow,I learn something new every day..

I didn't know the mini map showed where we are banned.. What does it look like on the mini map,jusy in case I may be coming up on a place I may be banned from?

[Alwin Alcott]

Just now, Ceka Cianci said:

What does it look like on the mini map,jusy in case I may be coming up on a place I may be banned from?

red   ( firestorm)

[Whirly Fizzle]

2 hours ago, Nova Convair said:

Ban lines are 50m over ground.

If you are explicitly banned it's 5000m over ground.

Another possibility is the region has "Block parcel fly over" enabled.
World -> Region/Estate (Region Details in Firestorm) -> Region -> Block Parcel Fly Over.

When enabled, this extends access checks vertically to prevent parcel fly over.

[Tari Landar]

2 hours ago, Jennifer Boyle said:

Oh! I guess I must have flown over the same parcel in the past and run afoul of some kind of security script that added me to the parcel ban list. 

Why do people feel the need to be jerks? It wouldn't cost them a thing to let me fly over their land for a few seconds.

Why do people feel they are entitled to go wherever whenever, just because "I want to"?  It might seem like a stupid question to you, you're only wanting to fly over for a few seconds..but how does a landowner actually know that?

I've rarely ever used the ban features(ban lines, outright ban, etc) to block folks from being on my parcel, because I don't personally care as long as someone isn't causing a problem on land I own/rent. But I can understand why others do care. I also wouldn't call them jerks for using features granted to them as landowners. I'd call folks thta think they should be able to go wherever they want entitled, though, lol. The landowners are, after all, the ones paying for it, not folks that want to go over/on the land.  While it might not "cost them a thing", it also costs you nothing to go somewhere else. You kinda have to look at these topics from both sides, not just the person feeling slightly inconvenienced because you have to change your travel path. I may not have had the need to block folks, but others have..they pay for that right, so they get to have it, not everyone else

 

[Qie Niangao]

This is almost always an artifact of inappropriate security orb settings of which the landowner is blissfully oblivious.

Sucks, but among the myriad ways Second Life is hostile to having fun with vehicles, it's just another feather on the camel's back.

[Jennifer Boyle]

7 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

Why do people feel they are entitled to go wherever whenever, just because "I want to"?  It might seem like a stupid question to you, you're only wanting to fly over for a few seconds..but how does a landowner actually know that?

I've rarely ever used the ban features(ban lines, outright ban, etc) to block folks from being on my parcel, because I don't personally care as long as someone isn't causing a problem on land I own/rent. But I can understand why others do care. I also wouldn't call them jerks for using features granted to them as landowners. I'd call folks thta think they should be able to go wherever they want entitled, though, lol. The landowners are, after all, the ones paying for it, not folks that want to go over/on the land.  While it might not "cost them a thing", it also costs you nothing to go somewhere else. You kinda have to look at these topics from both sides, not just the person feeling slightly inconvenienced because you have to change your travel path. I may not have had the need to block folks, but others have..they pay for that right, so they get to have it, not everyone else

 

Perhaps people feel like they should be able  to fly over land because that's the way it it in Real Life. I paid for the land I live on, but aircraft fly over it every day, as is their right, and they affect me a lot more than I'd affect a SL landowner because they shake my house and they are LOUD. Why should it be different in SL? In addition, anyone who does something that makes someone else's life worse that doesn't make their life better just because they can is indeed A JERK. I believe people, in RL and SL, should always do everything they can to make others' lives better when they can do it at no cost to themselves.

You minimize the difficulty of "going somewhere else." It is harder than you think.  One needs to fly fast to avoid  being shot down by security orbs (so that one leaves their areas before the grace period ends), and it's just impossible to navigate precisely enough fast enough to avoid problems. I try to avoid going near skyboxes, but I still run afoul of security  orbs sometimes.

I was not aware that the minimap shows where one is banned; that may be a very useful tool that will solve my problem with ban lines. 

If I could see ban lines at a distance, I would gladly fly around then, but I can't see them until I am upon them.

[Tari Landar]

2 hours ago, Jennifer Boyle said:

Perhaps people feel like they should be able  to fly over land because that's the way it it in Real Life. I paid for the land I live on, but aircraft fly over it every day, as is their right, and they affect me a lot more than I'd affect a SL landowner because they shake my house and they are LOUD. Why should it be different in SL? In addition, anyone who does something that makes someone else's life worse that doesn't make their life better just because they can is indeed A JERK. I believe people, in RL and SL, should always do everything they can to make others' lives better when they can do it at no cost to themselves.

You minimize the difficulty of "going somewhere else." It is harder than you think.  One needs to fly fast to avoid  being shot down by security orbs (so that one leaves their areas before the grace period ends), and it's just impossible to navigate precisely enough fast enough to avoid problems. I try to avoid going near skyboxes, but I still run afoul of security  orbs sometimes.

I was not aware that the minimap shows where one is banned; that may be a very useful tool that will solve my problem with ban lines. 

If I could see ban lines at a distance, I would gladly fly around then, but I can't see them until I am upon them.

I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill, just like everyone else that has ever gotten their knickers in a twist over this.

I don't use these options, because I don't personally care if people go over my land, or on it, or over it. Unless it's someone that's causing trouble of course. Otherwise, I let folks feel pretty free to enjoy it, and always have. I still understand why others do not. But I have run into issues while traveling the grid. DO you know what I do about it? I change my travel path, quite simple, and I don't whine because someone won't let me go over their land. It is not as hard as people want to make it out to be, I've done it countless times. If I crash when running into something unexpected, so be it. If I get chucked a few sims over(it has happened), so be it. If I get unseated from something and it goes AWOL for a few, so be it. It's not a huge deal, at all, certainly not the deal people make it out to be. It does not bug me in the least to simply go somewhere else. I don't pay for their land, and I respect the rights given to them by LL. I don't call them names because they won't let me play with their toys, lol. In fact, I wouldn't let my children do that, I'd assume it's about nap time if my kid ever *did throw these kinds of temper tantrums over things they don't have a right to use..so seeing adults do it, just makes me laugh. I have a neighbor kid that acts like a petulant spoiled little snot anytime he doesn't get his way. I have known him since he and my son were babies. They are now teenagers, and he's STILL a petulant little child. (and his parents are a huge part of the blame in that) You can't tell that kid no, and you certainly cannot tell him he can't do something, or play somewhere, or go somewhere, that is another person's property..he throws a fit. His response is always "I'm not hurting anything". 

That said, SL is not rl. You don't have air rights in rl..you do, in sl. Comparing it to rl in this context is simply foolish, it doesn't apply, in fact, a lot of things simply don't transfer over the same between sl and rl. 

[LittleMe Jewell]

9 hours ago, Jennifer Boyle said:

Perhaps people feel like they should be able  to fly over land because that's the way it it in Real Life.

In RL, you only have rights up to a certain height and you know that when you buy land.

Like it or not, when someone buys land in SL, they are buying the entire space upwards, for as high as anyone can get.

SL is not RL - period.

[Callum Meriman]

Normally I use the opensourced SafeSkies HUD if I am out flying.

It can be a fun challenge though to take off from SNO and do a 4 continent run without crashing. We sometimes do that if we feel up to it, although we've found the mainland rally is also fun on a similar scale - can one make the planned route without crashing.

 

[CaraMcLean]

I just rely on security with a few mins timer and a polite warning these days, it used to be fully open with no active security, just passive, since I'm mainland road and waterside protected I left a hundred prim or so and made my own unofficial rez zone sign, figured it would be nice for people that crash their cars etc into houses all around me with the police tape since I know how much that sucks, specially if they have the send home thing enabled.

Anyhoo, why did I change it?

Because for every one person like the OP who would use it respectfully there are one thousand douches waiting to take advantage and I got tired of clearing up their crap on a daily basis. 

[Jennifer Boyle]

On 8/16/2017 at 4:52 PM, Qie Niangao said:

This is almost always an artifact of inappropriate security orb settings of which the landowner is blissfully oblivious.

 

Thanks for the explanation.

[Jennifer Boyle]

On 8/16/2017 at 1:21 PM, Alwin Alcott said:

i agree... as you state it this way, why do those jerks always think they can free access the land where others pay for...

 

this fly or not fly discussion is so often done, the for's and againsts are pretty clear.

This one is locked for you, use the minimap and you can see where you have access or not. Dont whine.

I was very happy to learn that the minimap shows where I am banned. This is a gamechanger for me. It will make flying so much safer and easier. Thank you sooooooo much. I did discover that, in Firestorm, "show property lines" must be turned on in the minimap options.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Jennifer Boyle

[Jennifer Boyle]

1 hour ago, Callum Meriman said:

Normally I use the opensourced SafeSkies HUD if I am out flying.

It can be a fun challenge though to take off from SNO and do a 4 continent run without crashing. We sometimes do that if we feel up to it, although we've found the mainland rally is also fun on a similar scale - can one make the planned route without crashing.

 

I'll definitely be looking into using the Safeskies HUD.

Thanks for the tip.

1 hour ago, Callum Meriman said:

 

 

[Anna Nova]

On 16/08/2017 at 7:27 PM, Alwin Alcott said:

red   ( firestorm)

I was pleased to discover this.  Unfortunately it doesn't give any advanced warning, it just turns red AFTER you arrive there (and are then booted to wherever the <expletive deleted> programmer of the Orb wants to send you).  It even goes back to clear after a while, even though, if you try to overfly again, it shows red (after your hit it).

  I have no problem with the rights of people over their parcels, but I do wish there were some advanced warning tools that worked.  Then we could enjoy sailing or flying without annoying anyone.

[Darrius Gothly]

5 hours ago, anna2358 said:

I was pleased to discover this.  Unfortunately it doesn't give any advanced warning, it just turns red AFTER you arrive there (and are then booted to wherever the <expletive deleted> programmer of the Orb wants to send you).  It even goes back to clear after a while, even though, if you try to overfly again, it shows red (after your hit it).

  I have no problem with the rights of people over their parcels, but I do wish there were some advanced warning tools that worked.  Then we could enjoy sailing or flying without annoying anyone.

I don't do a lot of flying around, so I have a question. On private parcels you can set an option called "Allow Object Entry" with various values. One of those is "Anyone" meaning things like boats and airplanes and other rezzable things can enter onto the Parcel. If you are banned though, I would expect any objects you own to also be rejected. But that's a theory as I've not really tried it.

Years ago, as a goofy afternoon project, I built a "Follower". It would constantly monitor the location of its Owner then politely fly a few meters behind and above. It would be a pretty simple matter for someone to take that same concept, only program it to fly in front of the Owner by about 10-20 meters. If you are flying and suddenly see your "Point Guard" stop dead or worse vanish then you'd know you're not allowed there.

This is only theory as I've not experienced the actual effects of bans and object entry but .. it's maybe possible?

[Aislin Ceawlin]

Sorry, this is what immediately came to mind, lol! 

 

[Aislin Ceawlin]

On 8/17/2017 at 0:59 AM, Jennifer Boyle said:

Perhaps people feel like they should be able  to fly over land because that's the way it it in Real Life. I paid for the land I live on, but aircraft fly over it every day, as is their right, and they affect me a lot more than I'd affect a SL landowner because they shake my house and they are LOUD. Why should it be different in SL? In addition, anyone who does something that makes someone else's life worse that doesn't make their life better just because they can is indeed A JERK. I believe people, in RL and SL, should always do everything they can to make others' lives better when they can do it at no cost to themselves.

You minimize the difficulty of "going somewhere else." It is harder than you think.  One needs to fly fast to avoid  being shot down by security orbs (so that one leaves their areas before the grace period ends), and it's just impossible to navigate precisely enough fast enough to avoid problems. I try to avoid going near skyboxes, but I still run afoul of security  orbs sometimes.

I was not aware that the minimap shows where one is banned; that may be a very useful tool that will solve my problem with ban lines. 

If I could see ban lines at a distance, I would gladly fly around then, but I can't see them until I am upon them.

 

As a RL pilot, it is nice to get up there and relax and enjoy your time in the sky, but you still have to be 100% aware of no fly zones. You can't fly into one and whine that you weren't hurting anyone or anything! I know there's a LOT more no fly zones in SL, but if you want to use RL as an example........

[Solar Legion]

8 hours ago, anna2358 said:

I was pleased to discover this.  Unfortunately it doesn't give any advanced warning, it just turns red AFTER you arrive there (and are then booted to wherever the <expletive deleted> programmer of the Orb wants to send you).  It even goes back to clear after a while, even though, if you try to overfly again, it shows red (after your hit it).

  I have no problem with the rights of people over their parcels, but I do wish there were some advanced warning tools that worked.  Then we could enjoy sailing or flying without annoying anyone.

If you are hitting these parcels before the minimap indicator can warn you then you are traveling too fast. When walking around the minimap indicator does indeed warn you before you arrive though the range is still fairly close.

[Anna Nova]

9 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

If you are hitting these parcels before the minimap indicator can warn you then you are traveling too fast. When walking around the minimap indicator does indeed warn you before you arrive though the range is still fairly close.

The alternative explanation, which is true in my case I suspect, is the latency of my connection to SL.  One of the benefits of living a remote location.  I also choose Linux, to avoid paying Microsoft or Apple a bent-cent, and the Linux version of Firestorm is very slow.

[Solar Legion]

16 minutes ago, anna2358 said:

The alternative explanation, which is true in my case I suspect, is the latency of my connection to SL.  One of the benefits of living a remote location.  I also choose Linux, to avoid paying Microsoft or Apple a bent-cent, and the Linux version of Firestorm is very slow.

Yeah your connection speed can cause the indicator to lag a bit. On your operating system and Firestorm though, cannot say I have seen the same issue on this shared computer. It is running Xubuntu, is kept up to date and runs the latest 64-bit version of Firestorm without much of a problem at all with the only lag spikes being hardware related.

That is with the settings set to Ultra, draw distance set to one hundred twenty eight meters and avatar complexity set to have no limit.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Solar Legion

[Richardus Raymaker]

14 hours ago, Aislin Ceawlin said:

 

Ban lines are 50m over ground.

 

Did the changed this ?
Ban lines always where 100 meters over ground. And i think still are 100 meters.
It's anyway one thing in secondlife that ruined the fun for mainland.