Is Lindenlab choosing a doomed path for SL ? Tell us if the EEP and PBR introduction changed the way you play SL

[Velk Kerang]

On 6/26/2024 at 5:43 AM, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Just the implication that it is in anyway like that broken Viewer 1 clone drek is enough to say "HARD PASS".

To each their own mate. In regards to Singularity I will say this much. Since that viewers conception I've literally only ever had one issue with it over the years. That is more then I can say for my experience with Firestorm both on an average computer and on a high end gaming rig I live stream content on. With Genesis Viewer I literally rezzed in and loaded an inventory with over 220k of items INSTANTLY! So you HARD PASS all day long my G. lol You HARD PASS all day long. lol The performance speaks for itself. All you proved by your statement is that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Lmao!!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣

Edited June 30 by Velk Kerang
Corrections.

[Ceka Cianci]

3 hours ago, Velk Kerang said:

To each their own mate. In regards to Singularity I will say this much. Since that viewers conception I've literally only ever had one issue with it over the years. That is more then I can say for my experience with Firestorm both on an average computer and on a high end gaming rig I live stream content on. With Genesis Viewer I literally rezzed in and loaded an inventory with over 220k of items INSTANTLY! So you HARD PASS all day long my G. lol You HARD PASS all day long. lol The performance speaks for itself. All you proved by your statement is that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Lmao!!!!🤣🤣🤣🤣

I tried using some of the v.1 viewers over the past few days.. I wanna say since Wednesday..

Really the only problems I had with them was more on lack of options in graphics settings and really quality of life things..

I could find a couple things in one that I use and a couple in another, but couldn't get everything in one..

I knew going in that I was going to have to give some things up.. But a lot had to do with photos and lighting mainly..

I think after trying a couple of them, I really mostly just got tired of trying to find everything in each one.. hehehe

Switching viewers takes a lot of time to get around in them..

I may have rushed a little and missed some things or didn't find things because they were in a different place or something..

With only havign so much time, and kind of having a good idea of where things  usually are and not finding them there.. I just decided to spend that time trying to figure out how to get the viewer I like and am comfy with that has it all in one place, running smoother..

I'm glad there is a lot of options for people to turn to and that they can still bounce around in the v.1 viewers for many of those things.. I remember having to do that on a couple of my systems that were slowly timing out because of changes..

It's a little more of a pain, but it wasn't so bad once I got used to doing it..

A lot of virtual worlds don't have those kinds of options.. you pretty much just sink or swim with their timers.. hehehe

 

[BriannaLovey]

1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I tried using some of the v.1 viewers over the past few days.. I wanna say since Wednesday..

Really the only problems I had with them was more on lack of options in graphics settings and really quality of life things..

I could find a couple things in one that I use and a couple in another, but couldn't get everything in one..

I knew going in that I was going to have to give some things up.. But a lot had to do with photos and lighting mainly..

I think after trying a couple of them, I really mostly just got tired of trying to find everything in each one.. hehehe

Switching viewers takes a lot of time to get around in them..

I may have rushed a little and missed some things or didn't find things because they were in a different place or something..

With only havign so much time, and kind of having a good idea of where things  usually are and not finding them there.. I just decided to spend that time trying to figure out how to get the viewer I like and am comfy with that has it all in one place, running smoother..

I'm glad there is a lot of options for people to turn to and that they can still bounce around in the v.1 viewers for many of those things.. I remember having to do that on a couple of my systems that were slowly timing out because of changes..

It's a little more of a pain, but it wasn't so bad once I got used to doing it..

A lot of virtual worlds don't have those kinds of options.. you pretty much just sink or swim with their timers.. hehehe

 

And that is the beauty of open-source software! Most other virtual worlds don't have this type of freedom because their client software is closed source (for example, VRChat, which not only is closed-source but also uses anti-cheat to discourage users from modifying their client.)

[Starberry Passion]

If Second Life did not update to PBR, it wouldn't be lasting long. PBR is very big in the modern age. (not talking about a modern audience but the Modern age in general) If you've played any type of game, in the 2004, you've already been introduced to PBR and it's been a thing that make games feel more alive, ever since then.

Any game you play, now, have PBR of some form, therefor if Second Life didn't bring PBR into their world, it would not be able to compete, or have a way of competing in todays market, because it would still be an outdated platform.

By not implementing better lighting, better control, it wouldn't have a fresher look and people will still be around saying "Why does this chat platform look so old and ugly and outdated? Why the avatars look like that?" They want everyone to look fresh, the environment to look good, avatars to look great to appeal to Newer players, not older players. They want it to catch the eyes of people and gain their curiosity. 

[Velk Kerang]

On 6/30/2024 at 12:05 PM, Ceka Cianci said:

I tried using some of the v.1 viewers over the past few days.. I wanna say since Wednesday..

Really the only problems I had with them was more on lack of options in graphics settings and really quality of life things..

I could find a couple things in one that I use and a couple in another, but couldn't get everything in one..

I knew going in that I was going to have to give some things up.. But a lot had to do with photos and lighting mainly..

I think after trying a couple of them, I really mostly just got tired of trying to find everything in each one.. hehehe

Switching viewers takes a lot of time to get around in them..

I may have rushed a little and missed some things or didn't find things because they were in a different place or something..

With only havign so much time, and kind of having a good idea of where things  usually are and not finding them there.. I just decided to spend that time trying to figure out how to get the viewer I like and am comfy with that has it all in one place, running smoother..

I'm glad there is a lot of options for people to turn to and that they can still bounce around in the v.1 viewers for many of those things.. I remember having to do that on a couple of my systems that were slowly timing out because of changes..

It's a little more of a pain, but it wasn't so bad once I got used to doing it..

A lot of virtual worlds don't have those kinds of options.. you pretty much just sink or swim with their timers.. hehehe

 

That's actually an outstanding response mate. I think we all can totally relate. While V1 is my preference and the one I recommended was mostly purely based on over all gaming performance and speed. There are others viewers I would probably recommend over it based on what someone wants to do in SL. That's an excellent point. And each one does take some time to learn and find out the distinct differences. Thanks mate.👍😎

[Jaylinbridges]

22 hours ago, Starberry Passion said:

They want everyone to look fresh, the environment to look good, avatars to look great to appeal to Newer players, not older players. They want it to catch the eyes of people and gain their curiosity. 

Let's get rid of all Residents over 40, and see how long SL lasts. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

So far, the biggest graphic enhancement to my SL that PBR has brought with it is the fact that it forces me to use ALM (or whatever we're calling that now -- deferred rendering? Whatever), which I tended not to have on most of the time. So, new materials and mirrors aside, SL looks nicer now (at least when I'm not using an old EEP that either washes everything out, or hides it infernal shadows).

And, because some strides have been made in performance, even in Firestorm, it's not throttling my FPS too much.

So there's that. PBR has bullied me into nicer graphics, against my will. Which has all along been one of the reasons @Qie Niangao supported its introduction, as I recall.

[Candide LeMay]

22 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Let's get rid of all Residents over 40, and see how long SL lasts. 

Based on personal experience of being over 40 I'm used to being probed. Old people can deal with PBR just fine 😛

[Love Zhaoying]

15 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

PBR has bullied me into nicer graphics, against my will.

Pitchforks and Torches!!

[Scylla Rhiadra]

7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Pitchforks and Torches!!

Kinda!

Ruffians!

[Jaylinbridges]

23 hours ago, Starberry Passion said:

Any game you play, now, have PBR of some form, therefor if Second Life didn't bring PBR into their world, it would not be able to compete, or have a way of competing in todays market, because it would still be an outdated platform.

BTW, Second Life is NOT a game!  You want shiny greasy bodies, plastic wood, and bling on the Linden water, go find a game.  I prefer SL look like RL, not some gamer nerds idea of what RL should look like. 

Edited July 1 by Jaylinbridges

[Fauve Aeon]

23 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Pitchforks and Torches!!

🏵️ Only if they come in Rose Gold. 🏵️

Joking aside - My Official Viewer has been running fine on my laptop all this time, and since my Firestorm is running hot, that tells me it is time to follow the directions and optimize my settings to get it managed. Nothing was going to stop me from doing my recent craze - MyStory leveling, so I only took a few minutes to toss out some mirrors and make a reflection probe. I have an SL Bucket List and the year is half over. Tick-tock, I have Things To Do!

PS - people have been predicting DOOM with every advancement since I got here in 2008, oh and SL has been ‘dying’ since then too, you know! One becomes immune to the Chicken Little style discourse, I guess? This is not a slam against people for whom this or any upgrade might spell unrealistic hardship or expense, btw - but against the ‘IsThisTheEnd’ general litany. Just another verse. 😎

Edited July 1 by Fauve Aeon
Moar thots

[Love Zhaoying]

26 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

34 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Pitchforks and Torches!!

Kinda!

Ruffians!

Is it getting hot in here, or is it just those ruffians?

ETA, @Scylla Rhiadra

Edited July 1 by Love Zhaoying

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Fauve Aeon said:

27 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Pitchforks and Torches!!

🏵️ Only if they come in Rose Gold. 🏵️

Not everyone knows, but the Library includes a "Torch!" object!

[Paul Hexem]

53 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

So there's that. PBR has bullied me into nicer graphics, against my will. Which has all along been one of the reasons @Qie Niangao supported its introduction, as I recall.

Green eggs and ham.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Green eggs and ham.

Yeah, I thought I wouldn't like those either.

Actually, now you mention it, I don't . . .

[Paul Hexem]

13 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Yeah, I thought I wouldn't like those either.

Actually, now you mention it, I don't . . .

How about "eat your vegetables they're good for you"?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Paul Hexem said:

How about "eat your vegetables they're good for you"?

I like veggies.

[Porky Gorky]

1 hour ago, Jaylinbridges said:

BTW, Second Life is NOT a game!  You want shiny greasy bodies, plastic wood, and bling on the Linden water, go find a game.  I prefer SL look like RL, not some gamer nerds idea of what RL should look like. 

If you want SL to look realistic then PBR is what will help to achieve that. PBR materials authored using real world data values, combined with physically accurate lighting will result in the realism you seek. It might just take a while to get there.

Edited July 1 by Porky Gorky

[Paul Hexem]

1 hour ago, Jaylinbridges said:

I prefer SL look like RL

So, you're arguing for PBR?

Or are you really confused?

[Love Zhaoying]

26 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

2 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

I prefer SL look like RL

So, you're arguing for PBR?

Or are you really confused?

Maybe they are an AI, or a "brain-in-a-jar".

[Arielle Popstar]

23 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

So, you're arguing for PBR?

Or are you really confused?

No but we just want the instant gratification.. now! Had some avatars and skins been done with PBR  for us to actually see the benefits, there would probably be less hesitation on the viewers and the load they put on some computers.

A friend pointed out some ai photographs for me that were done with PBR  and I was quite impressed. She said that would eventually be how are avatars would be able to look.

[CaithLynnSayes]

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

2 hours ago, Fauve Aeon said:

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Pitchforks and Torches!!

🏵️ Only if they come in Rose Gold. 🏵️

Not everyone knows, but the Library includes a "Torch!" object!

That's not the kind of torch you want to be using with pitchforks.

Also, all the oldtimers know about that.  

[Henri Beauchamp]

1 hour ago, Porky Gorky said:

If you want SL to look realistic then PBR is what will help to achieve that. PBR materials authored using real world data values, combined with physically accurate lighting will result in the realism you seek.

Problem: a realistic lighting dynamic range is several orders of magnitude beyond what a monitor can display. Even a ”HDR” monitor cannot display the full dynamic range between a (real life) Moon-less night and a bright Summer mid day.

For people with a main stream (i.e. non-HDR) monitor, this results in over-contrasted renders in the PBR viewer, and this looks right out ugly !

In the last release of my viewer, I implemented an ”Auto exposure” mode for the Sun brightness factor fed to the PBR sky shaders: it is not perfect but succeeds pretty well in ”taming” the over-contrasted environment settings seen in the public parcel of SL21B sims, for example, which otherwise would make my eyes ”bleed” so bad they render (in any PBR viewer)...

Edited July 1 by Henri Beauchamp

[Magneto Bashly]

On 6/22/2024 at 11:54 AM, Zalificent Corvinus said:

1. It's not "decades old".

2. It didn't become an "industry standard" until some years after its launch.

3. It's only an "industry standard" for SOME types of software, types that are very little like SL.

So...

4. what you just posted is as relevant as claiming SL should adopt the standards in Sage Business Accountancy software.

PBR (Physically based rendering) got it start back in the 1980's, and in more modern times has become the standard for video games, as well as other 3d software like Blender. Second Life is playing the catch up game, as many games it is the standard. There is nothing wrong with second life being modernized.

I remember what second life looked like back in 2005 it a night and day difference, second life has always tried to improve as grow as a platform.