Love Zhaoying Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 2 minutes ago, Madi Melodious said: One of the things that I have been mulling over for a while now is having filing false abuse reports added in to the TOS prohibitions. I don't mean a mistaken report or two or something the governance board determines isn't a TOS violation. What I'm talking about is when someone lands in a sim and just basically files a bunch of AR reports to see what sticks. That's always been against the TOS. AFAIK. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katherine Heartsong Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said: Wrong, "Moderate" doesn't allow promotion of sexual activities in public nor private: "Residents in these spaces should therefore expect to see a variety of themes and content. Stores that sell a range of content that includes some "sexy" clothing or objects can generally reside in Moderate rather than Adult regions. Dance clubs that feature "burlesque" acts can also generally reside in Moderate regions as long as they don't promote sexual conduct, for instance through pose balls (whether in "backrooms" or more visible spaces). However if any of these businesses uses adult-oriented search tags, the region may be categorized as Adult and blocked from appearing in non-Adult search." And where did I say promotion? I said it's allowed. Nothing more. Don't make me out like I haven't read and stick to the guidelines. Here's the part you snipped out in your quote ... "publicly promoted adult activities or content and do not use adult search tags" As others have pointed out to make sure we all are on the same page ... Quote Non-sexual public nudity is allowed in moderate regions, and sex is allowed behind closed doors, so why should we have to wear a modesty layer? Edited May 7 by Katherine Heartsong 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Can male adults still be topless? Why wouldn't they be? Edited May 7 by brodiac90 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 37 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said: This is where I'm confused, the whole "wearing". I know what the LL new guidelines say, but isn't this simply solved by child avatar makers simply having a range of default avatar "skins" in a HUD that a user can choose from (to match the chosen head skin etc) that have the modesty patches applied (whatever the guidelines on size coverage etc turn out to be), and not having the avatar able to be BoM or wear any other skin in any way? How could a user possibly then running one of these avatars even wear a skin that lacked a modesty thing? I'm expecting child avatars to not be modifiable at the base skin "layer" at all beyond what the maker themselves allow. Something like Maitreya's base skin panel, no BoM, and that's your only available choices. (Obviously these would include the modesty panels.) That would mean every child avatar would need to find a body that supports this and then have absolutely nothing available that fits said body. How long is it taking LaraX to get enough content and Maitreya is the most used body? 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said: That would mean every child avatar would need to find a body that supports this and then have absolutely nothing available that fits said body. How long is it taking LaraX to get enough content and Maitreya is the most used body? Exactly, we discussed it earlier. IF that is the case then I'm potentially going to lose about 2000 items of clothing. Do the math on how much that is going to cost. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madi Melodious Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 4 hours ago, Blush Bravin said: Come to think of it, a few, very few times the naked avatars I've seen were females being pulled around on a chain, so in those cases the nudity would seem to be very intentional. Oh don't' get me started on this. This behavior should be confined to adult land. I've had to ask people to remove their bondage gear at some of our events. One couple refused and I removed them. 😎 Would you believe there are people in SL so entitled that they think a cute, adorable, little AV shouldn't have the ability to punt an adult from an event? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 21 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said: So if one is against your position, one can go? Nice spoiled kid reaction. A+ Sid stay.. you have teacher skills, perhaps they will listen to you .. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Just now, brodiac90 said: 3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Can male adults still be topless? adults avatars or child avatars? We don't know about boys but I suspect we will have to wear some sort of chest modesty layer too just because of how child avatar bodies work. As for male adult avatars? Why wouldn''t they be? Adults avatars. Just now, brodiac90 said: Why wouldn''t they be? To be honest, I just realized a few posts ago that it seems "a bit weird" that male child avatars do have to cover up. It is OK for "adult male avatars" to be without a top, but not a "child male avatar". The opposite of what society allows many / most places. I guess perverts just ruined even "child male avatars" from going shirtless. I am not "freaking out" about it, just finally realizing there is that disconnect between adult males and child males being topless. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 minute ago, brodiac90 said: Exactly, we discussed it earlier. IF that is the case then I'm potentially going to lose about 2000 items of clothing. Do the math on how much that is going to cost. It's probably not going to happen that way. I know it is "scary", but my prediction is "probably not". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissSweetViolet Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Just now, Alwin Alcott said: a lot is quite some, no majority, except in how you seem to take it. a large part is a lot, not a majority, again, except in you seem to read it. i repeat: i nowhere said it is a majority, You however are a minority in this thread, as only a small part of the total kids communities responds in this thread. A large part by it's very nature would imply a majority other wise it wouldn't be large. Again, I don't recall stating I was a representing every community, but I do know what I've seen and the amount places and events that exist, everyone I've been too has been innocent. As stated earlier, I am not arguing that places that are not so innocent exist. Only the assumption that their the majority rather then a subset of sick people that should be removed from SL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chery Amore Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Just now, Rowan Amore said: That would mean every child avatar would need to find a body that supports this and then have absolutely nothing available that fits said body. How long is it taking LaraX to get enough content and Maitreya is the most used body? Okay I was getting a headache trying to figure out why it wouldn't work. It's about having to find or buy new stuff or hope the creator of your body updates their products to be compliant then? It's not just because of how bodies and mesh work in general. For some reason with all these arguments I was getting that impression. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katherine Heartsong Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: That would mean every child avatar would need to find a body that supports this and then have absolutely nothing available that fits said body. How long is it taking LaraX to get enough content and Maitreya is the most used body? I realize that, I was merely thinking out loud about a solution given the wording around modesty panels, skins, wearing etc. I'm merely wondering how else LL expects the makers of the four popular child avatars to comply to the "can't be removed" (and by association hidden or over-ridden) if not this? I am super curious to find out the technical expectations and how this will play out for the avatar creators. As others have said, i have no skin in the game except to have a few bits of wording clarified and to see how this evolves. I don't run child avatars, but feel for many here who genuinely enjoy doing so responsibly in SL. Edited May 7 by Katherine Heartsong 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 How old do y'all think I look? I mean I think I look like an adult, I don't look mature or some crap. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 23 minutes ago, brodiac90 said: It actually does if you read the FAQ. From June 30th all child avatars are required to use one of the updated bodies/ skins. Not doing so is a direct violation of TOS. Two technicalities though. First the FAQ is not included by reference in the TOS. It's not even properly included by reference in the Child Avatar Policy, there's just a handy link there. So technically it's only informational, not binding. (But of course if Governance thinks it's binding, it's binding. Hence only a technicality.) The second is even more lawyerly: Even the FAQ doesn't actually say anybody must wear the products with the baked-in magic underwear. Here's the text: Quote Q: I already have a child avatar that does not have a built in modesty layer. Can I still use that since I purchased it already? A: No. Going forward, child avatars will be prohibited from being fully nude. That only says one can't wear one's pre-existing modesty unlayered avatar, and (at some point now or in the future*) can't be nude. So if, for example, a child avatar made their own skin now without the magic underwear (say for simplicity just blank texture on all maps) as long as they didn't go fully nude, they'd still comply even with the FAQ. The wording is actually worse than that. It specifies that one can't even use any child avatar (not just skin) that lacks a modesty layer. I see no way they could really mean to say all child avatars are obsolete, given that they mention "skins or bodies" in the official Child Avatar Policy. I'm sure Governance will just decide what if anything to use from the FAQ, but with the wording as it is, I really don't think the author's heart was in it! ________________ *Clearly child avatars can't be nude already because at least that part is properly stated in the Child Avatar Policy, included by reference in the TOS update we all accepted on login. But the FAQ says the restriction applies "going forward" which doesn't specify a start date. This makes me suspect that the FAQ was written a while ago, intended to generate feedback (perhaps internally). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Just now, Chery Amore said: Okay I was getting a headache trying to figure out why it wouldn't work. It's about having to find or buy new stuff or hope the creator of your body updates their products to be compliant then? It's not just because of how bodies and mesh work in general. For some reason with all these arguments I was getting that impression. Yes, the main gripe aimed at the modesty layer is not the idea behind it itself, but the possibility of losing years of content and money and then needing to replace it - that isn't going to be quick or easy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 57 minutes ago, Stellaa Starlight said: make it a dog paw and thats me 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 31 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said: 34 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said: No, because Moderate allows nudity, but surely you know this. Wrong, "Moderate" doesn't allow promotion of sexual activities in public nor private: "Residents in these spaces should therefore expect to see a variety of themes and content. Stores that sell a range of content that includes some "sexy" clothing or objects can generally reside in Moderate rather than Adult regions. Dance clubs that feature "burlesque" acts can also generally reside in Moderate regions as long as they don't promote sexual conduct, for instance through pose balls (whether in "backrooms" or more visible spaces). However if any of these businesses uses adult-oriented search tags, the region may be categorized as Adult and blocked from appearing in non-Adult search." Nudity is not considered sexual activity as it says in the Adult Content FAQ... Linden Lab Official:Adult Content FAQ - Second Life Wiki Is simple nudity without sex Adult? Depending on context, nudity may not require an Adult rating. For example all of the following could be rated Moderate: A nude beach without sexual activity. Skin vendors showing a nude skin to display the product. Nude art that is not sexual. Strip clubs that do not use adult words in search or host sex furniture. Depending on the context, exposed genitalia may not be considered Adult. For example: Hanging out at a nude beach would be fine. Walking around pants-less on the mainland could be inappropriate. Non-sexualized depictions of nudity are Moderate NOT Adult. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 12 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: Why would someone add a sentence like this: Child avatars where the focal point of the body is on the breasts, pelvis, or buttocks ...which expresses NOTHING, out of context of this: "Child avatar content creators are required to add a modesty layer which is baked into child avatar skins or bodies, is not transparent, does not match the skin tone, and may not be removed." And why would anyone demand content creators to add such a thing to a skin if it would not be mandatory for the ones who use content? We can probably debate on what a "child avatar content creator" exactly is, and the sense of it, but...hey. That's nothing to do with the modesty layer (nor any texture). It's about body shape. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 4 minutes ago, MissSweetViolet said: A large part by it's very nature would imply a majority other wise it wouldn't be large.... i explained what i meant and how i see it, there's no further discussion about how you read my words with me. Edited May 7 by Alwin Alcott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Trihey Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Random thought: Losing access to BOM would also suck. BOM covers so much, stocking/socks, skin details like freckles, cute additions like stickers or knee/elbow bandages. Undershirts/Underlayers. Could be solved with appliers but appliers are kind of old fashioned now, and they were very limited even at there peak. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissSweetViolet Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Just now, Alwin Alcott said: i explained what i meant and how i see it, there's no discussion about how you read my words with me. Agreed and likewise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Trihey Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 3 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said: How old do y'all think I look? I mean I think I look like an adult, I don't look mature or some crap. Lol Definitely adult, but if you were my daughter I'd still tell you that Zindra is no place for vulnerable young goth girls. 😝 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: That would mean every child avatar would need to find a body that supports this and then have absolutely nothing available that fits said body. How long is it taking LaraX to get enough content and Maitreya is the most used body? The underlying problem is that LL did not pay much attention to the massive amount of problems ***** generated over the past years. Now they are forced to react quickly, and the result is what we see now. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 6 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said: How old do y'all think I look? I mean I think I look like an adult, I don't look mature or some crap. Lol See .. if you're portraying an adult, you shouldn't ever ask that. It shouldn't ever be in question .. so don't make it a question. But as you did .. under 18 .. has a mall / baby goth vibe that tends to only last though the mid teen blunder years. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 3 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said: How old do y'all think I look? I mean I think I look like an adult, I don't look mature or some crap. Lol If I had a kid, I'd start their tattooing and piercings as early as possible so they'd always be fashion-forward. So, I think you're about 16. Luckily, I don't have a kid! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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