Love Zhaoying Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 It's really simple: follow the rules. No joke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: That's good, so you realize this goes much farther then 8 year old avatars. I feel that's a little vague, but sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wincil Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) 33 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: By definition, any avatar that is under the age of 18 is a 'child'. There are plenty of 16-17 yr olds that have big breasts and wide hips. That is why "child" avatar is subjective. With avatars that are representing late teens, they can look very much like "young looking" older avatars. Well again there plenty of does who are over 18 who have big breasts and big breasts and wide hips does who are under 18 usually don't have bodies like fully developed adult one that seems vague in my point of view. Edited May 4 by Wincil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 3 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said: What does that have to do with what I asked? If your 18 on second life, you're am adult just like real life. If you're 10 in second life, you're a child. No one can get you banned in an adult sim for being an adult, unless the Owner bans you from their sim for being 18. Linden Lab wouldn't ban your account because you're still an adult. Simply saying you're +18 or +21 won't keep a region owner from banning you if they think you LOOK younger. What LL considers looking like a child is still ambiguous. If you go into an adult region and the owner thinks you look 16, they can kick.you out. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: Wow Stand by for a crowd of kid avatars yelling, "Ok, Boomer!" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said: What is wrong with barring people who run child avatars from adult rated sims and content? What is wrong with demanding that people who run child avatars take care that they do not display a sexualised child? What is wrong with demanding that they keep their profile clean of links to adult content and sites? What is wrong with demanding that people running child avatars stay away from adult activities and content? For whom is the mandatory modesty layer a punishment? Certainly only for those who prefer to have none and these are the ones with an obvious interest in the sexualised display of a child, to themselves and to others. I never claimed there was anything wrong with any of these remedies you cite. I only described the way in which some of the changes and extreme focus on these matters are affecting how some child avatars feel. Knowledge and feelings sometimes differ, you know, and can even exist at the same time under this difference. Scroll up to see what Brodiac90 said. Edited May 4 by Luna Bliss 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 14 minutes ago, brodiac90 said: In principle the modesty layer is a good thing as it will keep us safe, but the fact we need it makes me feel sort of dirty like I should be ashamed or I've done something wrong even though logically I know I haven't. I totally get it. IMO, it is the same as when women in RL are told to dress a certain way if they don't want to be raped. A rapist is the one that is wrong, not the ones that might be raped. Similarly, the pedophile is the one in the wrong, not the object of their attention. However, since we are in an online world, where "image" counts for a lot, we have to deal with not only the fallout of the bad actors, but the perception that the bad actors can get what they want too easily. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Starberry Passion said: What does that have to do with what I asked? If your 18 on second life, you're am adult just like real life. If you're 10 in second life, you're a child. No one can get you banned in an adult sim for being an adult, unless the Owner bans you from their sim for being 18. Linden Lab wouldn't ban your account because you're still an adult. sure one can be banned if AR'ed on the suspicion one is under 18. It's happened. It is one reason why we should be very interested in Governance following through with reviews for all bannings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wincil Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: Simply saying you're +18 or +21 won't keep a region owner from banning you if they think you LOOK younger. What LL considers looking like a child is still ambiguous. If you go into an adult region and the owner thinks you look 16, they can kick.you out. I could care less if people think my avatar is a child avatar or looks 16 I mean my avatar has curves. Edited May 4 by Wincil 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madi Melodious Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said: Simply saying you're +18 or +21 won't keep a region owner from banning you if they think you LOOK younger. What LL considers looking like a child is still ambiguous. If you go into an adult region and the owner thinks you look 16, they can kick.you out. I really don't see what this has with the issue at hand. As a sim owner I have the right to kick anyone out that I don't want there. I can do this for any reason, or for no reason other than I don't want them there. An as to that I don't owe LL or them a reason for doing it. meus sim meae regulae 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 (edited) 1 hour ago, brodiac90 said: What child avatar ever is actually saying that? Has anyone in this thread? I certainly haven't seen anything like that. In fact, I was one of the people agreeing that those beaches were awful places and that I and many others avoided them like the plague. All the kid avis I've spoken to are worried they're going to be effectively banned come June 30. That is literally the only thing we care about right now. Actually yes, someone did say it. @Persephone Emerald said this means that Child avi's can't run around the house naked after taking a bath. It's the end of the world....no more bathtub RP! Edited May 4 by Kathlen Onyx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: It's really simple: follow the rules. No joke! And it is really simple that people can object to new rules in spite of having to Ok the boiler plate ToS. It is so far still a free country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Kathlen Onyx said: Actually yes, someone did say it. @Persephone Emerald said this means that Child avi's can run around the house naked after taking a bath. It's the end of the world....no more bathtub RP! Who even has a bathroom in SL nevermind a bathtub? Besides, a bath with bubbles would be more fun anyway! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: Simply saying you're +18 or +21 won't keep a region owner from banning you if they think you LOOK younger. What LL considers looking like a child is still ambiguous. If you go into an adult region and the owner thinks you look 16, they can kick.you out. You don't even know what was being said. The person i was talking to said this "This isn't just about those who identify as child avatars but also those who are perceived as mid to late teen or even early 20"s. We all potentially get thrown under the bus." you're talking crap to me 24/7. While you're over here telling me this, I'm simply telling them 18 to 20 is adult so they won't be thrown under the bus. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 2 minutes ago, brodiac90 said: Who even has a bathroom in SL nevermind a bathtub? Besides, a bath with bubbles would be more fun anyway! I do.... I have a bathroom... 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I never claimed there was anything wrong with any of these remedies you cite. I only described the way in which some of the changes and extreme focus on these matters are affecting how some child avatars feel. Knowledge and feelings sometimes differ, you know, and can even exist at the same time under this difference. Scroll up to see what Bordiac90 said. Luna, if these guys feel "punished" by the new rules, then the immersion must have done some massive damage to their psyche, and we are no psychotherapists here. But I suspect that the most of these who lament the loudest are acting like someone just caught in the act. "Damn, Linden Lab abolishes my ten sexy underaged alt avis i had such a hawt time with". Or something like that. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrude Ragu Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 For me it's all a bit bitter sweet. I've got memories of the big anime boom in Second Life around 10 years ago when mesh was introduced and all the friends I made. Over the years that has gotten quiet. I know many migrated to VRChat and other platforms as SL began to show its age. Anime in Second Life has already been in managed decline for some time due to the stagnation period of SL development and the VR craze. I'd been pushing for a long time to get Second Life modernised, and spent 8 odd years building my own anime sim and calling this place home. Second Life was finally working on actually modernising in the last couple of years. Things have really been looking upwards. Dave has been posting some of the coolest developments to Second Life you guys will ever see recently in the discord. I do have friends that are paranoid about being banned. They shut themselves off in their sim and locked it to the outside world. They were never super social, but I don't think it's good for them. People who like anime have a tendency to get shunned from the world, and are prone to depression and loneliness if people don't look out for them. Yeah, anime is all about everything cute and lolita. Japan ain't America, they really don't have the same hangups your christian ma has. But honestly, I prefer eastern culture to Western. Everything in Western culture is about being apologetic for yourself. Your race, your wealth, your privelege, the crimes of your ancestors. The west is all about self hatred and being apologetic and miserable. The West does not have much to offer that is actually enjoyable to me and I think the same is true for the generations behind me too. When I walk out of my door all I see is managed decline and ideology, and a whole lot of trash because apparently we don't think our world is worth looking after anymore. Actually, I'm not even allowed to like the Wests achievements, because that would make me a coloniser or something. I know what the anime community is like. They're not bad people. Most of my friends can best be described as gremlins who's biggest vice is spending too much money on gacha games and drinking too much soda. NEET's and basement dwellers who love cute things. The sex offenders are in another castle, chief. Second Life I feel has two paths ahead of it. One of them is to double down on this virtual retirement home thing with the premium homes, and the other is to modernise and open up their minds to what a new generation of people actually like and enjoy. There seems to be a tug of war going on and we're all in the middle of it where we're most likely to fall down the tears that will appear as this tugging continues. I'd love to spend another ten years in Second Life, but if things are going to go the way I suspect they are, I'm not sure I'll be able to stomach watching the decline. 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 I closed down the browser and was getting ready for bed, when I realized how truly sick this whole thing is. Once the new rules take effect and child avatars MUST be wearing a modesty skin, anyone derendering a child's clothing and seeing they DON'T have the modesty skin can AR them, and LL will ban them. I'm sure there are lots of people that hate child avis that will do it. *shaking my head in disgust at the target LL has painted on every child's back 6 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 11 minutes ago, Wincil said: I could care less if people think my avatar is a child avatar or looks 16 my avatars has curves but not overly curvy. Nor should you care. I agree. The only point I've made is...other people may see your avatar as a child and refuse to let you enter. That's it, that's all. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, Vivienne Schell said: 10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I never claimed there was anything wrong with any of these remedies you cite. I only described the way in which some of the changes and extreme focus on these matters are affecting how some child avatars feel. Knowledge and feelings sometimes differ, you know, and can even exist at the same time under this difference. Scroll up to see what Bordiac90 said. Luna, if these guys feel "punished" by the new rules, then the immersion must have done some massive damage to their psyche, and we are no psychotherapists here. But I suspect that the most of these who lament the loudest are acting like someone just caught in the act. "Damn, Linden Lab abolishes my ten sexy underaged alt avis i had such a hawt time with". Or something like that. Your accusation of those who simply want to play child avatars and are doing nothing wrong is sick. And I never said, and in fact dismissed the idea of "punishment"...it was Arielle who used that term and not me or any of the child avatars. It's a pity you can't see beyond your nose and have some empathy, and instead accuse them of sexualizing their experience with nothing to base your claim on. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 3 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said: For me it's all a bit bitter sweet. I've got memories of the big anime boom in Second Life around 10 years ago when mesh was introduced and all the friends I made. Over the years that has gotten quiet. I know many migrated to VRChat and other platforms as SL began to show its age. Anime in Second Life has already been in managed decline for some time due to the stagnation period of SL development and the VR craze. I'd been pushing for a long time to get Second Life modernised, and spent 8 odd years building my own anime sim and calling this place home. Second Life was finally working on actually modernising in the last couple of years. Things have really been looking upwards. Dave has been posting some of the coolest developments to Second Life you guys will ever see recently in the discord. I do have friends that are paranoid about being banned. They shut themselves off in their sim and locked it to the outside world. They were never super social, but I don't think it's good for them. People who like anime have a tendency to get shunned from the world, and are prone to depression and loneliness if people don't look out for them. Yeah, anime is all about everything cute and lolita. Japan ain't America, they really don't have the same hangups your christian ma has. But honestly, I prefer eastern culture to Western. Everything in Western culture is about being apologetic for yourself. Your race, your wealth, your privelege, the crimes of your ancestors. The west is all about self hatred and being apologetic and miserable. The West does not have much to offer that is actually enjoyable to me and I think the same is true for the generations behind me too. When I walk out of my door all I see is managed decline and ideology, and a whole lot of trash because apparently we don't think our world is worth looking after anymore. Actually, I'm not even allowed to like the Wests achievements, because that would make me a coloniser or something. I know what the anime community is like. They're not bad people. Most of my friends can best be described as gremlins who's biggest vice is spending too much money on gacha games and drinking too much soda. NEET's and basement dwellers who love cute things. The sex offenders are in another castle, chief. Second Life I feel has two paths ahead of it. One of them is to double down on this virtual retirement home thing with the premium homes, and the other is to modernise and open up their minds to what a new generation of people actually like and enjoy. There seems to be a tug of war going on and we're all in the middle of it where we're most likely to fall down the tears that will appear as this tugging continues. I'd love to spend another ten years in Second Life, but if things are going to go the way I suspect they are, I'm not sure I'll be able to stomach watching the decline. I still do not think that anime avatars will be affected as much as everyone think they will. You don't need to panic too much, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 12 hours ago, Starberry Passion said: Or they use an adult head and think it looks like a child, but it doesn't look like it but it's on a child avatar body, For example. The face look like some 20 year old woman's face but it's on a child's body. I taught 6th grade (11-12) for many years. This looks very much like a 12 year old wearing makeup to try and look like she's 16 or hopefully 18. But nope.. that's a preteen! Honestly, nowadays, 12 year old girls look older than their actual age mostly because of all the makeup they wear and their style of clothing. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 12 minutes ago, Madi Melodious said: I really don't see what this has with the issue at hand. As a sim owner I have the right to kick anyone out that I don't want there. I can do this for any reason, or for no reason other than I don't want them there. An as to that I don't owe LL or them a reason for doing it. meus sim meae regulae That's my point. I was responding to this post... 22 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said: No one can get you banned in an adult sim for being an adult, unless the Owner bans you from their sim for being 18. Linden Lab wouldn't ban your account because you're still an adult. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingrid Ingersoll Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 2 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: I realized how truly sick this whole thing is. Once the new rules take effect and child avatars MUST be wearing a modesty skin Read that back to yourself and ask yourself if that's actually a terrible thing. 5 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madi Melodious Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 minute ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: I closed down the browser and was getting ready for bed, when I realized how truly sick this whole thing is. Once the new rules take effect and child avatars MUST be wearing a modesty skin, anyone derendering a child's clothing and seeing they DON'T have the modesty skin can AR them, and LL will ban them. I'm sure there are lots of people that hate child avis that will do it. *shaking my head in disgust at the target LL has painted on every child's back This is it exactly. I have been subjects of AR reports for just being somewhere. A bunch of people teleported in and started ARin'g every child in the place. They even announced they were doing it. I know LL doesn't just ban child avatars for no reason. One of my jobs is to remove troublemakers at events. They have even IM'ed me and told me they were ARing me, so I know LL doesn't just blanket ban on first impulse. But these new rules make it much easier to file AR reports on every child av now and actually have them breaking a rule, maybe even a rule they were not aware of being a rule. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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