Thunes to acquire payments platform Tilia LLC

[Porky Gorky]

As I have mentioned numerous times, I left SL for nearly 12 years (sorry for repeating myself). What brought me back was randomly logging on to Facebook, which I hardly ever use and seeing a post from LL in my feed showing some pretty cool pictures, PBR, Mesh, all that jazz. I was intrigued as this did not look like the SL I knew. I logged in, visited some featured destinations, acted like a tourist for a few weeks and as a result I have returned to the platform.

There must be millions of people out there who are just like me. People who have a preconceived idea of what SL is/was like with little idea of what it has evolved into, at least in places. 

So I think LL should take some of the money from the Tilla sale and invest in advertising SL more effectively. Show people the 2024 shiny eye candy. It worked on me.

[Sid Nagy]

5 minutes ago, Porky Gorky said:

So I think LL should take some of the money from the Tilla sale and invest in advertising SL more effectively. Show people the 2024 shiny eye candy. It worked on me.

One should advertise at least somewhat realistic IMHO.
I still remember the shock when I went to a McD the first time, when they opened up shop in my region in RL, after watching a few of their burger commercials.

[Porky Gorky]

5 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

One should advertise at least somewhat realistic IMHO.
I still remember the shock when I went to a McD the first time, when they opened up shop in my region in RL, after watching a few of their burger commercials.

McD’s make their food look great in advertising. In reality it tastes like arse. They are the most successful fast food chain in the world.

I rest my case.

Edited April 27 by Porky Gorky

[Cackle Amore]

On 4/23/2024 at 2:15 PM, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

Changing payment systems puts things back into uncertain waters. Panic waters? No. Just uncertain.

Plus for better or worse, I'm familiar with LL and likewise Tilia.
SL's economy has been decently stable for the past two decades under their watch.

Not a damn clue who thunes is nor what history they have on the other hand, and thus are unpredictable.
How long will it be before they start sinking their claws deep into the core of Tilia to rip and gut it.

 

I'm also curious how this will effect VRChat since they had just recently gotten Tilia hooked up into their game.

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Porky Gorky said:

tastes like ars

How do you know what "arse" tastes like? 

[Porky Gorky]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

How do you know what "arse" tastes like? 

Because I eat at McD's 🙂

ETA: Allegidly, in my opinion

Edited April 27 by Porky Gorky

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Once Tilia is part of Thunes, Thunes will set the price for a money transfer.  LL will have no say because they no longer own Tilia/Thunes.  LL will be standalone company,  with Oberwolf (Oberwager) as it's CEO. 

My point is, will Thunes still charge an excessive transfer fee for a 10-15 day wait time for electronic transfers, like Tilia is doing now?  Charging a 5% fee with a $3 min charge and $500 max fee is still high even for an instant transfer, although I would willing to pay that for an instant transfer.  But not a transfer that could be faster by  mailing a check via the postal system like the dark ages.

Whatever Thunes will do, it won't start right away. Even after regulatory approval, it'll take some time to integrate what was Tilia with Thunes' existing systems to realize any efficiencies. Somewhere in the interview, Oberwolf says he can't commit to timelines for changes because it'll no longer be under his control.

That part about not being under his control is also true, as you say, for setting the price of a money transfer. I'm just a little concerned that SL traders have unrealistic expectations about fees in general. I was struck when a Blueberry exec said that after rolling up all Roblox's exchange fees, etc., they often ended up taking 75% to 90% of the merchant's income, a number that makes Apple and Google Play Stores' 30% cut pale in comparison, never mind the still much lower total fees and commissions that SL creators have complained about forever.

Unpopular to say, but if SL merchants get an even better deal with Thunes, that seems like gravy.

[Love Zhaoying]

17 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Whatever Thunes will do, it won't start right away. Even after regulatory approval, it'll take some time to integrate what was Tilia with Thunes' existing systems to realize any efficiencies. Somewhere in the interview, Oberwolf says he can't commit to timelines for changes because it'll no longer be under his control.

That part about not being under his control is also true, as you say, for setting the price of a money transfer. I'm just a little concerned that SL traders have unrealistic expectations about fees in general. I was struck when a Blueberry exec said that after rolling up all Roblox's exchange fees, etc., they often ended up taking 75% to 90% of the merchant's income, a number that makes Apple and Google Play Stores' 30% cut pale in comparison, never mind the still much lower total fees and commissions that SL creators have complained about forever.

Unpopular to say, but if SL merchants get an even better deal with Thunes, that seems like gravy.

How DARE you say something positive!

[Sid Nagy]

35 minutes ago, Porky Gorky said:

McD’s make their food look great in advertising. In reality it tastes like arse. They are the most successful fast food chain in the world.

I rest my case.

It might have worked for you, but not for me. McD is here in my hometown for more than 40 years now, I haven't even been there twice so far.  Exaggerate a bit is okay in commercials, but the way they do it...
LL should not go that way with advertising IMHO.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

It might have worked for you, but not for me. McD is here in my hometown for more than 40 years now, I haven't even been there twice so far.  Exaggerate a bit is okay in commercials, but the way they do it...
LL should not go that way with advertising IMHO.

LL needs to advertise on adult sites, "horny seniors want to play with you!"

I'm sure Thune won't mind.

[Sid Nagy]

22 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Whatever Thunes will do, it won't start right away. Even after regulatory approval, it'll take some time to integrate what was Tilia with Thunes' existing systems to realize any efficiencies. Somewhere in the interview, Oberwolf says he can't commit to timelines for changes because it'll no longer be under his control.

That part about not being under his control is also true, as you say, for setting the price of a money transfer. I'm just a little concerned that SL traders have unrealistic expectations about fees in general. I was struck when a Blueberry exec said that after rolling up all Roblox's exchange fees, etc., they often ended up taking 75% to 90% of the merchant's income, a number that makes Apple and Google Play Stores' 30% cut pale in comparison, never mind the still much lower total fees and commissions that SL creators have complained about forever.

Unpopular to say, but if SL merchants get an even better deal with Thunes, that seems like gravy.

You forget that most professional merchants in SL aren't RL professional merchants. Otherwise they would not be in Second Life to make a living.
So they work with the Second Life situation, calculate with Second Life costs and what customers in Second Life are used and are willing to pay. They rightfully see the percentages they pay now as the standard. Not the costs that are normal in RL or in other virtual platforms.

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, Sid Nagy said:

You forget that most professional merchants in SL aren't RL professional merchants. Otherwise they would not be in Second Life to make a living.
So they work with the Second Life situation, calculate with Second Life costs and what customers in Second Life are used and are willing to pay. They rightfully see the percentages they pay now as the standard. Not the costs that are normal in RL or in other virtual platforms.

I don't know that I forgot that, though. Rather, that's kinda the problem I was concerned about. Costs for Second Life merchants haven't needed to absorb as much of platform costs as elsewhere because Land was (and still is) a very major part of Linden revenue, and some of that total revenue subsidized the development and operation of Tilia.

If it turns out Thunes can't operate it at costs below that unsubsidized rate, something will need to pay the difference. It can't just be absorbed by tier anymore.

[Arwyn Quandry]

My big concern is the issue that Tilia always avoided for LL - payment processors leveraging their power to force a ban of sexual content. How are they going to ensure that doesn't happen now?

[AmeliaJ08]

I know Tilia was spun off and officially separate but... it always felt there was a link. Isn't LL now utterly dependent on another company who have enormous power to effectively set platform policy? what if they decide they don't want to handle certain transactions (for example adult content)?

 

[Ceka Cianci]

29 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

I know Tilia was spun off and officially separate but... it always felt there was a link. Isn't LL now utterly dependent on another company who have enormous power to effectively set platform policy? what if they decide they don't want to handle certain transactions (for example adult content)?

 

How are Thunes or tilla gonna know what the transactions were for, when they are not involved with those in world transactions?

They are only handling money to get the lindens and the money after the exchange and not lindens or in world transactions..

Edited April 27 by Ceka Cianci

[Luna Bliss]

3 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

I'm just a little concerned that SL traders have unrealistic expectations about fees in general. I was struck when a Blueberry exec said that after rolling up all Roblox's exchange fees, etc., they often ended up taking 75% to 90% of the merchant's income, a number that makes Apple and Google Play Stores' 30% cut pale in comparison, never mind the still much lower total fees and commissions that SL creators have complained about forever.

Unpopular to say, but if SL merchants get an even better deal with Thunes, that seems like gravy.

Perhaps all who create for these online corporations should get a better deal? Why should SL conform to the too-low payments creators receive on other platforms? As more and more of RL moves online I'd like to see all who create for online platforms get a better deal. In other words, let's not funnel too much of the money to CEO's.

However I don't know SL's financials, and realize they do need to keep afloat. Also I don't know what those at the top are making -- could be it's not in excess as RL execs make these days.  But to automatically think those at the bottom of a community should pay more is faulty thinking.

[Innula Zenovka]

56 minutes ago, Arwyn Quandry said:

My big concern is the issue that Tilia always avoided for LL - payment processors leveraging their power to force a ban of sexual content. How are they going to ensure that doesn't happen now?

Maybe the fact LL is a minority shareholder in the new company formerly known as Tilia and has a five year contract with it will  help?     

It's hardly likely that Brad Oberwager has signed anything  without satisfying himself that he's not putting his name to something that might write off his investment in  LL by putting it out of business.

Edited April 27 by Innula Zenovka

[AmeliaJ08]

1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

How are Thunes or tilla gonna know what the transactions were for, when they are not involved with those in world transactions?

They are only handling money to get the lindens and the money after the exchange and not lindens or in world transactions..

When some outraged media runs stories about the filth going on in Second Life and specifically names Thunes as facilitating the monetary side of it.

Of course actually tracing where lindens are being spent is relatively trivial with LL cooperation, I'm sure that's possible internally but publicly Thunes are going to be associated with every single adult transaction... I don't know if that's an issue to them, it probably isn't right now but it potentially could be especially since we're talking about a global operation here.

Edited April 27 by AmeliaJ08

[AmeliaJ08]

59 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Perhaps all who create for these online corporations should get a better deal? Why should SL conform to the too-low payments creators receive on other platforms? As more and more of RL moves online I'd like to see all who create for online platforms get a better deal. In other words, let's not funnel too much of the money to CEO's.

However I don't know SL's financials, and realize they do need to keep afloat. Also I don't know what those at the top are making -- could be it's not in excess as RL execs make these days.  But to automatically think those at the bottom of a community should pay more is faulty thinking.

I think we're going to have to face this eventually but right now the regulatory environment in most countries makes this an enormously lucrative business and I know those involved won't want to give it up easily or even reduce their rather large share of the pie.

We've allowed a global economy to emerge where we charge ludicrous sums for the transfer of tiny packets of information, there's nothing especially expensive about handling online transactions other than the wrangling that is involved in obtaining the licenses to do so.

I don't know how we fix this, cryptocurrency (I know, I know) was one idea but rather quickly being made less and less viable due to how disruptive it can be to those currently making out like bandits.

 

 

 

[Ceka Cianci]

3 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

When some outraged media runs stories about the filth going on in Second Life and specifically names Thunes as facilitating the monetary side of it.

Of course actually tracing where lindens are being spent is relatively trivial with LL cooperation, I'm sure that's possible internally but publicly Thunes are going to be associated with every single adult transaction... I don't know if that's an issue to them, it probably isn't right now but it potentially could be especially since we're talking about a global operation here.

I would think because they are so global, that they are already working with companies that handle those kinds of transactions already..

Really who is going to stop working with them, the few people that have it in for that kind of thing?

The world is filled with closet perves.. hehehe

they might as well name paypal and visa and just about any huge financial institution that handles money.. Even big banks do it..

The media is losing it's hit power more and more because people are starting to see what a crock they are..

[Anna Salyx]

30 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

When some outraged media runs stories about the filth going on in Second Life and specifically names Thunes as facilitating the monetary side of it.

Of course actually tracing where lindens are being spent is relatively trivial with LL cooperation, I'm sure that's possible internally but publicly Thunes are going to be associated with every single adult transaction... I don't know if that's an issue to them, it probably isn't right now but it potentially could be especially since we're talking about a global operation here.

And if that was going to happen it would already be the 5 o'clock news.  It's not.  There are blips now and again, but when people come poking around they find:

Quote

 a lot of dance clubs, some live music venues,  a lot of beaches, a fair amount of roleplay in (not so) Happy Valley, a lot of malls for shopping, lots of art and creativity. People standing around talking, people sailing, people flying, going to talks and and presentations.... and among all of that *some* adult oriented activity and products. In the sea of all that's available in Second Life the adultier aspects are not a core activity and don't come across that way.

What is going to be seeing is a bunch of people trying to create a semblance of of RL in the digital world. IE: for the new - boring.

Oh sure they can try and focus on the the seedier side, but the truth will out.

Edited April 27 by Anna Salyx
added dropped words "are not" next to "a core"

[Ceka Cianci]

4 minutes ago, Anna Salyx said:

And if that was going to happen it would already be the 5 o'clock news.  It's not.  There are blips now and again, but when people come poking around they find:

What is going to be seeing is a bunch of people trying to create a semblance of of RL in the digital world. IE: for the new - boring.

Oh sure they can try and focus on the the seedier side, but the truth will out.

Plus SL has always see's a boost in new users when the news tries to come after second life.. If they do, Thunes may see an increase in money coming from SL.. If I were them I would enjoy the moment, because it'll pass like always until the next time.. If the media's haven't been phased out by podcasts by then.. hehehe

[Love Zhaoying]

3 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

I don't know that I forgot that, though. Rather, that's kinda the problem I was concerned about. Costs for Second Life merchants haven't needed to absorb as much of platform costs as elsewhere because Land was (and still is) a very major part of Linden revenue, and some of that total revenue subsidized the development and operation of Tilia.

If it turns out Thunes can't operate it at costs below that unsubsidized rate, something will need to pay the difference. It can't just be absorbed by tier anymore.

Since Oberwager said he sold Tilia because it cost too much to operate, it follows that he wouldn't sell it resulting in a higher-cost service. 

[Extrude Ragu]

5 hours ago, Porky Gorky said:

McD’s make their food look great in advertising. In reality it tastes like arse

I think you'll find a nice 'arse tastes a lot better than mcdonalds!

[Ceka Cianci]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Since Oberwager said he sold Tilia because it cost too much to operate, it follows that he wouldn't sell it resulting in a higher-cost service. 

Plus, with lowered running cost, it gives more financial room and freedom..It could hold off on possible increases that might have been coming in some area or maybe even room for a decrease, expansion somewhere or new feature that couldn't happen before..

From the video, it really sounded like tilla was a pretty good strain on their budget.