Should I put my real-life gender in my woman avatars' profiles?

[kali Wylder]

10 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I personally take everyone at the avatar level and only really worry about going deeper than that if there's a chance the friendship/relationship will go beyond SL.

I accept everyone as they appear to be as well.  Over the years, some of my friends have confided to me that they were the opposite gender than they appeared and while I was glad we had reached that level of trust, it didn't change our relationship.

[kali Wylder]

5 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

It is in your signature and it is quite large and annoying.

did you know you can hide sig lines individually? No need to complain, just remove the ones that are intrusive or you get tired of seeing.

[Love Zhaoying]

44 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

If we expect people to always represent the gender they are in RL, should we also expect them to do so with age, ethnicity, hair color, species, height, weight, etc?   If one is to say mispresenting your gender is unethical because it's not telling the truth, where do we draw that ethical line?  

I'll agree that once you decide to enter a relationship (not just SLex), then knowing who is behind the avatar might be very important to some.  Chit chatting with random people?  What does it matter?

This is all my opinion based on experience in Second Life:

Even once you start sharing RL information with someone, there should be natural boundaries.  

For example, once you start getting "RL interested", if someone does not offer some personal detail about themselves, and does not ask, you shouldn't feel obligated to share that information about yourself; and even if they DO share and ask, that does not mean you are obligated to share your own personal details.  An easy example would be your RL income. 

Just because people are nosy and curious, does not mean they deserve to know something about you.  Instead, look at it as you would a RL date.  If someone asked, "How much money do you make?" on a RL date, wouldn't that be both a "red flag" and send you running far away?

There are lots of examples of similar things..

I think that something about Second Life causes people to forget or ignore their RL boundaries.  I think they assume it is "safe" to tell people RL information once you get "close".  On the contrary, people don't stop judging and using other people just because they meet in Second Life.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

9 minutes ago, kali Wylder said:

did you know you can hide sig lines individually? No need to complain, just remove the ones that are intrusive or you get tired of seeing.

I did not know that! I just hide everyone's, as I find them generally annoying.

Thanks!

[Ayashe Ninetails]

9 minutes ago, kali Wylder said:

I accept everyone as they appear to be as well.  Over the years, some of my friends have confided to me that they were the opposite gender than they appeared and while I was glad we had reached that level of trust, it didn't change our relationship.

Same! I've also found that some are exploring or experimenting with gender or using SL to reflect their true gender, etc. I find that taking people as they present themselves is generally appreciated, especially in instances like that. As we get closer, friends typically do open up about it, but I'd never dream of asking them reveal info well before they were ready.

If I know you as a female squirrel, you're going to be a female squirrel to me until you tell me you're Bob from Minnesota (and then I'm still going to address you as a female squirrel in public, so there).

[Sid Nagy]

1 hour ago, kali Wylder said:

did you know you can hide sig lines individually? No need to complain, just remove the ones that are intrusive or you get tired of seeing.

I never noticed that this option is available. So thanks for the information.

[Sid Nagy]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

This is all my opinion based on experience in Second Life:

Even once you start sharing RL information with someone, there should be natural boundaries.  

For example, once you start getting "RL interested", if someone does not offer some personal detail about themselves, and does not ask, you shouldn't feel obligated to share that information about yourself; and even if they DO share and ask, that does not mean you are obligated to share your own personal details.  An easy example would be your RL income. 

Just because people are nosy and curious, does not mean they deserve to know something about you.  Instead, look at it as you would a RL date.  If someone asked, "How much money do you make?" on a RL date, wouldn't that be both a "red flag" and send you running far away?

There are lots of examples of similar things..

I think that something about Second Life causes people to forget or ignore their RL boundaries.  I think they assume it is "safe" to tell people RL information once you get "close".  On the contrary, people don't stop judging and using other people just because they meet in Second Life.

 

Of course there are boundaries about what one tells and what one better does not tell IMHO.
It all depends a bit on how long you know the other person.
But there are a few red tapes for me:
- the exact place where I live
- my birthday (sounds as unimportant, but it is a great search entrance)
- my RL family name
- my phone numbers
- bank account information
- passwords

And for the rest, almost everything is chat material for me: age, gender, profession, hobbies, musical interests, color of my hair (if I would not shave it: grey) you name it.
Maybe it is a bit easier for me, because for me there is never romance or an eventual relationship on the back burner because of my letter in the lgbtqia+ string.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[PermaRuthed]

8 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I'm really not responsible for other peoples emotions. If you don't want to get hurt, don't fall in love in here.

 

If I had known this advice could be applied to RL, I would have suffered a lot less grief.

 

ETA: 

9 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

 

Really, it's  their problem if they fall in love with a cartoon, not yours.

 

Jann Arden asked for advice on how to be insensitive. BilliJo's insight makes sense now.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by PermaRuthed

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

If I know you as a female squirrel, you're going to be a female squirrel to me until you tell me you're Bob from Minnesota (and then I'm still going to address you as a female squirrel in public, so there).

I wouldn't mind a squirrelfriend!

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/squirrel_friend

 

[Luna Bliss]

4 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

The OP asked if it's ethical to pretend to be something he is not. I answered, saying that imo it is not ethical to deceive people in that way (or in any way), especially when it's known that there is a very good chance of it mattering to the other people.

Correct me if I'm wrong please, but didn't most people in this thread, including you, answer the question with their opinions, just as I answered it with mine? They are giving their opinions, not telling people how to act in SL, and I did the same. Or are you actually telling people how to act in SL, and any opinions that are different to yours shouldn't be accepted?  They are all just opinions, which were asked for.

Phil, I am happy to see that you seem to grasp the definition of ethics (it involves the feelings and perspectives other people might have and does not only refer to ourselves).

"Ethics examines the rational justification for our moral judgments; it studies what is morally right or wrong, just or unjust. In a broader sense, ethics reflects on human beings and their interaction with nature and with other humans, on freedom, on responsibility and on justice".

[Rowan Amore]

Personal ethics is the code of ethical guidelines that guide you in your personal life. They often develop from your core values and work ethic. Your personal ethics can, and likely will, contain common ethical guidelines that other people share, but they will vary in their level of importance and how to maintain them.

[Luna Bliss]

9 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

9 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

Problem is, SL is not only about ones own emotions, but also about the emotions of other people one interacts with.
One should not screw with other peoples emotions IMHO.

I'm really not responsible for other peoples emotions. If you don't want to get hurt, don't fall in love in here.

You are not responsible for other people's emotions, true, but you can be sensitive to their emotions out of a desire to minimize pain. For example, if you notice someone starting to fall in love and you're not interested there are ways to discourage this before it goes too far.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

15 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

What you think is unethical is the only thing that matters.

No.

[Arielle Popstar]

Somewhere along the line the consideration for gender identity and expression comes into play and the changing ethics that surround it. If one is feeling a little masculine today and therefore comes out with their male avatar but tomorrow feels somewhat feminine and instead comes out with their female account, where do the ethics come into play in identifying what one is in RL to another? Perhaps one should be sharing what sexual plumbing one has rather then their gender.

[Istelathis]

16 hours ago, Gopi Passiflora said:

Hello all,

I am a mostly straight man in real life who has avatars/accounts of different kinds (male and female, human and non-human, etc.) I do have woman avatars but I do not put my real life gender on them because I actually want other residents to think they are really women - even if I do not intend on pursuing relationships in virtual worlds. But after reading this forum, I'm beginning to think this may not be ethical. I'm curious if you think I should put my real-life gender on my woman avatars' profiles in order to deal with other residents in an ethical manner, or if it's okay to keep it hidden.  

It is such a strange world we live in, if you place your gender in your real life tab you will likely be met with many people screaming that they wish you would stop throwing it in their faces, if you don't then some of them will yell that they want to see your papers.  Then they will step back aghast, when they realize that their data is being scraped and their second lives are being exposed to the world and seeped into their real life.

Some people will never be happy, unless you conform to being "them", and then they will accuse you of copying their fashion 😜 

If you pursue real life relationships with others, they are going to find out one way or another regardless, so it probably is best that you let them know.  People place expectations on such relationships, such as your height, weight, skin color, nationality, religion, political beliefs, ideological views, yearly earnings, home ownership, etc, etc, etc.   If they are not met, then they tend to get upset if you are something different than what you told them.

If you do not pursue real life relationships, do you really want to be friends with people who have such high expectations from you though?  Do you want to entertain their mentality?  I imagine, some people would support second life representing real life, have measures taken to ensure all women be made to show their papers, before they step into their bathrooms second life. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Istelathis

[Silent Mistwalker]

7 hours ago, QuietEventide said:

"Am I a boy or a lady, I don't know which..." ("Bobby Brown" by Frank Zappa)

I have one male and one female avatar on SL.

My female avi (this one) looks quite nice. And I try to be polite in chat.
Sometimes it feels uneasy - especially if one of these "predator" guys show up and starts sending IM's and friend requests after two minutes. But that's just SL ... it is what it is.
My male avi could probably have played a part in "Alias Smith and Jones" if anyone remembers that series (Pete Duel... why oh why...?).

Am I female or male for real? Take a guess if you like. 
I don't really care what SL people "are" in real life. It's none of my business.
I take them at face value. But sometimes it's pretty obvious - huge boobs is a giveaway lol.

I just feel old and grey in real life. SL makes a nice change.
Nobody wants to see my saggy ole' RL body, that's for sure... sigh... 

I've also become more of a recluse in SL as well.
Maybe SL and RL really are the same...

Same, except I'm not comfortable at all using a male avatar. It feels fake and is fake. I use this account to adjust poses with and it doesn't matter because I switch the avatar back and forth and into animals etc. and post on the forums so I can have peace inworld. 

The one thing I can't seem to RP very well is human male. *shrugs

[Silent Mistwalker]

6 hours ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

I've been told or seen posted on BBSs in the old days that there are not girls on the BBSs or internet.  As for the avatars, some clothes designers will have both male and female toons to design their clothes on.

In many MMOs I've been told by my nephews that many guys rather stare at female toons instead of the male ones.  One game (Forknife) I know of will assign various male and female toons if you don't have a customer skin. 

Still hear it from time to time in STO.

[Silent Mistwalker]

5 hours ago, ValKalAstra said:

The best part is, it's been like that for weeks and I always ponder whether I should say something, then always decided against it, figuring I'd just scroll past... I may have done a lot of scrolling.

I finally broke down and used the ignore button. Worked like a charm! 🤭

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

Just add an elaborate excuse as to why you don't do Voice in SL, obfuscate with 'no cam, no pics', add that you're bisexual but prefer girls, include a quote by Albert Einstein and you're good to go.

Excuses for being so oddly specific, btw, but you'd be amazed to learn how many female avatars in SL each tick all of the above boxes.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Arduenn Schwartzman

[Luna Bliss]

16 hours ago, Gopi Passiflora said:

Hello all,

I am a mostly straight man in real life who has avatars/accounts of different kinds (male and female, human and non-human, etc.) I do have woman avatars but I do not put my real life gender on them because I actually want other residents to think they are really women - even if I do not intend on pursuing relationships in virtual worlds. But after reading this forum, I'm beginning to think this may not be ethical. I'm curious if you think I should put my real-life gender on my woman avatars' profiles in order to deal with other residents in an ethical manner, or if it's okay to keep it hidden.  

Our profiles are not the be-all and end-all of interactions in SL, so I think you've asked a limited question.  As does everything in life, relationships in SL progress, and we have to be aware of the complexity that can develop. And so there are no absolutes here, but instead we need to be sensitive to how each person feels along the way. Relationships, even if totally role-playing ones, change over time -- they are evolving, dynamic entities.

Relationships, by definition, include the feelings of both parties.

So my belief is that it's fine not to list your actual gender on your profile, but to also be sensitive to how this might affect another should your relationship grow closer.

[Luna Bliss]

28 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Somewhere along the line the consideration for gender identity and expression comes into play and the changing ethics that surround it. If one is feeling a little masculine today and therefore comes out with their male avatar but tomorrow feels somewhat feminine and instead comes out with their female account, where do the ethics come into play in identifying what one is in RL to another? Perhaps one should be sharing what sexual plumbing one has rather then their gender.

You've stated many times you're just in SL for sex games, and that you choose to relate to people at deeper levels in open sim. So, since you asked about what you should be sharing here on your profile, I think you should state "I'm just here for sex-games and nothing deeper".

[Phil Deakins]

4 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Well then if you think it’s wrong to deceive people, are you suggesting that people should provide all the rl information anyone asks for? Profiles generally give people a good idea of what to expect from the people they meet. if soneone pushes ahead anyway, its their own fault if they get hurt. 

 

Now you're just being silly. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

@Gopi Passiflora

Don't just be an alien fish, be a dolphin. 😉

[Love Zhaoying]

22 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

@Gopi Passiflora

Don't just be an alien fish, be a dolphin. 😉

Can I be a banana fish?

[Istelathis]

8 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Can I be a banana fish?

I was going to suggest a catfish, but then remembered cat fish can be a reference to something other than fish.  Now I am trying to figure out why people call it cat fishing, because it doesn't make a lick of sense to me to call it that.  

Edit:

Found it

Quote

But why was the documentary — and its follow-up TV show — called Catfish? At the end of the documentary, Angela’s husband Vince sits on the porch and shares what seems like the perfect metaphor for describing people like Angela:

"They used to tank cod from Alaska all the way to China. They’d keep them in vats in the ship. By the time the codfish reached China, the flesh was mush and tasteless. So this guy came up with the idea that if you put these cods in these big vats, [and then] put some catfish in with them, then the catfish will keep the cod agile.

"And there are those people who are catfish in life, and they keep you on your toes. They keep you guessing, they keep you thinking, they keep you fresh. And I thank God for the catfish because we’d be droll, boring, and dull if we didn’t have somebody nipping at our fin."

https://www.distractify.com/p/where-did-the-term-catfish-come-from

Edited August 15, 2023 by Istelathis