Principles of Second Life.

[Anne Forbes]

The 10 Principles of Burning Man | Burning Man

Is SL still like this or do you feel it has changed through the years?

"In fact, today’s conversations around the metaverse remind me a lot of the conversations we were having nearly 20 years ago about Second Life, which Philip Rosedale’s Linden Lab launched in 2003. Rosedale is very clear about the ways in which he was inspired by Snow Crash. He is also clear, however, that a trip to Burning Man in the late 1990s forever framed his thinking about virtual worlds, their inhabitants, and their ethos." ~ The metaverse is just a new word for an old idea | MIT Technology Review

"A pivotal stop was Burning Man, the orgiastic festival in the Black Rock Desert of Nevada. A self-described introvert, Rosedale got turned in a major way by the togetherness and expressiveness of the scene. “I would just walk up to you and be like, ‘Dude, nice outfit,'” he says. “I wasn’t high. I was just walking around and just felt that way.” There was something about being stuck in the desert with a group of strangers, and forming what he calls this “magical social construct” that spoke to him deeply. And, though he’s only been to the festival once, he says it remains a profound influence for the alternate society he’s building.

Rosedale said: “Burning Man is wondrously purposeless,” he says. “It asks you not to have a reason to be there. You’re brought together by hostility of the environment. You think you could die out there, and you could die. It gets cold, the wind comes up on you. You’re brought together by a need to protect each other in the harsh environment. Second Life is a new scary, difficult environment. People are brought together by their desire to help each other through it at the beginning… Burning Man is Second Life.” ~ David Kushner: Inside Second Life With Creator Philip Rosedale – Rolling Stone

"I want my kindred: those with whom I have full fellow-feeling.” ~ Charlotte Bronte

Edited August 13, 2023 by Ann Forbes
Cite sources

[Alwin Alcott]

your title says Second life, but your content is about burning man .. what is your topic?

[ItHadToComeToThis]

We have principles? I didn't get the memo, can someone send the memo?

[Silent Mistwalker]

Second Life was never anything like Burning Man. Since SL is online and not RL, it violates all of the BM principles.

[Love Zhaoying]

@Ann Forbes, If you could direct us to any past posts or discussions where Second Life principles were compared to Burning Man principles, that may be helpful.

Otherwise, perhaps this is a new comparison and some of us may be misunderstanding your post.

 

[Rowan Amore]

Burn2 History :: BURN2

[Garnet Psaltery]

6 hours ago, Ann Forbes said:

The 10 Principles of Burning Man | Burning Man

Is it still this or do you feel it has changed through the years?

 

I replied here earlier, but when I read what I wrote just now it sounded weird so I've edited it out.  

Edited August 13, 2023 by Garnet Psaltery
See the posting.

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Burn2 History :: BURN2

So..maybe "Burning Life" is an implied reference we missed in the OP?

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

So..maybe "Burning Life" is an implied reference we missed in the OP?

Rosedale brought the concept of burning man into SL.  I'm sure he's discussed it over the years...

What the Dreamer found there— a huge group of people, self-organized into a city, collaboratively creating a different reality— tweaked the direction of the project he was working on back in San Francisco, and filled his head with ideas about the nature of reality, creativity, identity and community. He worked some of these ideas into the very fabric of his project, "Linden World", which you and I now know as Second Life. That Dreamer was Linden Lab founder Philip Rosedale.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 hour ago, Ann Forbes said:

The 10 Principles of Burning Man | Burning Man

Is it still this or do you feel it has changed through the years?

 

If people enjoy going to some middle of nowhere place and spending a week not washing, getting drunk, stoned, and laid, listening to bad hippie music, good luck to them.

But a list of principles about how they are some kind of eco-friendly spirit warriors, for a better tomorrow, is just BS.

 

70,000 people migrating half way across a continent to the place in their 4x4 Suburban Assault Vehicles, with their Solar panel powered mini fridges, so they won't have to spend a week living of stale vegan curry with a side order of food poisoning, is not eco-friendly "leave no trace". Gasoline, rare earth minerals strip mined from 3rd world countries for the solar panels, toxic gasses and plastics for the mini fridge, preservatives for the long life rations, 70,000 assholes dumping raw sewage into the camp temporary toilets that have to be emptied somewhere, along with the chemical pollutants used to stop it stinking too bad after a week in the dessert sun. The list of hypocrisy goes on and on.

 

Just accept it's a drink and drug fuelled party for prosperous people who want to pretend they are hippies for a week , and move on.

 

And it has exactly NOTHING to do with SecondLife..

Edited August 13, 2023 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Paul Hexem]

Trying to find the Burning Man principles in SL is like saying a rock and a carrot are the same thing because they're both in the ground.

[Arielle Popstar]

Assumes it has to do with this page: 

https://www.burn2.org/who-is-burn2/come-to-burn2/#get-started/

Burning Man in Second Life (BURN2)

BURN2 is the first sanctioned Burning Man regional in the virtual world. Burning Man has always had a presence in Second Life since its beginning, and BURN2 is the latest incarnation of Burning Man presence there. Today, BURN2 occupies a region in Second Life year-round called Deep Hole, with extra regions added to their virtual space during special events. It is run by a group that includes people involved directly with Burning Man, along with seasoned Second Life programmers and digital artists with a genuine interest in Burning Man.

The BURN2 community is a mix of those who attend real-life Burning Man as well as people from all over the world who may never have the opportunity to visit the real playa, but share a genuine interest in Burning Man. For many, BURN2 is their Burning Man experience. Together, we celebrate Burning Man culture in the unique environment of Second Life.

BURN2 activities are primarily event-based with each event having a planning stage, building stage, holding the event, then tearing down. Several small events are held each year, with the main event held in October. This event is a week long and echoes the Burning Man playa "look and feel" each year. This event, also referred to by the community as "OctoBurn" uses more virtual space and requires more planning and preparation.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Arielle Popstar

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Paul Hexem said:

Trying to find the Burning Man principles in SL is like saying a rock and a carrot are the same thing because they're both in the ground.

From what I see, there are only a couple of the principles that could even be translated into anything SL related but most seem to only relate to RL.   Leave no trace?  Does that mean pick up your stuff at the sandbox?  

[Paul Hexem]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

From what I see, there are only a couple of the principles that could even be translated into anything SL related but most seem to only relate to RL.   Leave no trace?  Does that mean pick up your stuff at the sandbox?  

I only noticed two.

Welcome everyone because we're dying for customers, and self reliance 'cause it's up to you to figure out how everything works on your own. 

[Randall Ahren]

In SL:

1. Radical Inclusion: Yes, Goreans, lust-fiends, broken-people, furries, tinies and everyone else has a place.

2. Gifting: Not really. There are some pretty good gifts around the holidays, otherwise you have to buy everything.

3. Decommodification: No, transactions, advertising and consumption are important in SL. One of the main pass times is shopping. 

4. Radical Self-reliance: Yes, residents are mainly on their own.

5. Radical Self-expression: It's possible.

6. Communal Effort: Primarily for x-rated adult activities.

7. Civic Responsibility: There are a few events to raise funds for good causes.

8. Leaving No Trace: There are a lot of bad builds left lying around.

9. Participation: Everyone is invited to work, but at an appalling low wage and if they have a good avatar. Yes, everyone is invited to play. No, SL does not make the world real.

10. Immediacy: We seek to overcome barriers that stand between us and a recognition of our inner selves, the reality of those around us, participation in society, and contact with a natural world exceeding human powers. Absolutely not. SL obscures reality. Everyone is still a loser sitting mostly AFK in front of a computer monitor.

[gwynchisholm]

42 minutes ago, Randall Ahren said:

8. Leaving No Trace: There are a lot of bad builds left lying around.

This is still one of the negative attributes to SL in my eyes. It looks like an unprotected Minecraft world after a decade of abuse. Bad builds would be fine if they weren’t also around a bunch of poorly manipulated land and floating stuff.

In some ways it is like burning man for leaving behind kind of a mess.

[Love Zhaoying]

I'd figure the principles of Burning Man would include being naked, sweaty, and high in a desert.

[animats]

I don't see the connection between Second Life and Burning Man. SL doesn't try to be a nicer world. Just a virtual one. SL has landlords, evictions, property taxes, neighbor problems, and jerks. Just like real life.

What makes Second Life work is this:

• It's a big world, and being a jerk has only about a 100 meter annoyance radius, the range of a shout. When someone manages to annoy over an area larger than that, it's so obvious that Governance can take action. That's rarely needed.
• The only broadcast medium is group messages. You have to join a group yourself. No one can add others to their group unwillingly. You can leave a group at any time and you're immediately off the list. So spam is a minor problem.
• On your own land, you have enough power to kick jerks out, keep them out, and keep them from seeing much of what you're doing. Or even just block new users.
• There's a social consensus that, given all those tools, you should deal with your own problems and not whine about little stuff.
• The general policy of LL management is rather hands-off.

This is much of why SL works as a society. It's subtle, and I've seldom if ever seen it described in a published article. It's really quite amazing, when you think about it, that a virtual world anyone can enter for free works so well.

Now, there are other ways to manage a virtual world, and they're worse. Meta's Horizon and Roblox have a huge number of low-paid "moderators" armed with ban hammers. Roblox is trying AI moderators, so Big Brother is always watching and listening. Users live in fear. LL has managed to avoid that mistake.

Comments?

 

[Qie Niangao]

Second Life is exactly what a libertarian entrepreneur would take away from Burning Man.

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Second Life is exactly what a libertarian entrepreneur would take away from Burning Man.

What they wanted: Burning Man

What they got: "The Wicker Man"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wicker_Man

[Sid Nagy]

Ask Maddy, she will burn it in SL if she is allowed to.

[Persephone Emerald]

I'm surprised so many people on this forum didn't seem to recognize that Burning Man (along with Snow Crash) were major inspirations for Philip Rosedale's vision for Second Life.

#1. Radical Inclusion - Yes. This is part of the unspoken principals of Second Life.

#2. Gifting - This is still part of SL, but many people seem to think it means getting free stuff, rather than how they give their time, experience, and sometimes stuff to others. With so much free stuff available, we probably forget the value of giving to those (usually newbies) who don't have much and who don't know where to get stuff to enhance their SL experience. 

#3. Decommodification - is still a pricipal of the platform when compared to social media sites, but hasn't been a principal for most user-creators of SL ever since the introduction of linden dollars.

#4. Radical Self-Reliance - "This game is boring" is the mating call of those who don't know how to rely on themselves for entertainment. The rest of us have also become so used to buying stuff, that we've forgotten it's even possible to build what we need. We believe we're not talented enough or we don't want to "waste" the time it takes to create something, forgetting the joy of creating and building that we once had as children. Building in SL can also be incredibly relaxing, even if one doesn't end up using what they make, but if one does use it, there is a feeling of pride that comes from knowing one made this thing.

#5. Radical Self Expression - Yes. This is still a big part of SL.

#6. Communal Effort - This is rare, but it's around. There's no way to have a roleplay community without communal effort, for instance.

#7. Civic Responsibility - Some people get this and some people don't. Some will have blaring lights or fullbright textures in SL, just as Elon Musk would have a flashing X logo atop a RL building, because they simply don't consider the feelings or needs of other people to be of any consequence to them. 

#8. Leaving No Trace - This doesn't really apply to SL, unless you want to consider all the sims, stores, and groups that have left. They sink beneath the waters of SL as if they had never existed, though they may still remain in our memories.

#9. Participation - This has gotten less and less common as users choose to stay isolated on their islands, in their homes and skyboxes. At least we have Group Chat when we don't feel like socializing avatar to avatar. I'm not complaining about this self-isolation though. It's a choice for many of us when we want to get away from the stresses of dealing with the real world and other people in RL.

#10. Immediacy - This is real when we take the time to talk with other people in SL. One has to spend more than a few minutes to feel it though, ironically. We can't know someone from looking at their avatar or having only a surface conversation. We have to allow ourselves to trust a stranger with a piece of ourself and allow them to trust us with a piece of themself. Then when we leave that conversation, we realize we've actually connected with someone across miles of RL space and with whom we might never have spoken with in RL.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Persephone Emerald]

6 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I'd figure the principles of Burning Man would include being naked, sweaty, and high in a desert.

I think there are a few SL users who end up naked, sweaty and high while they're in SL.

[Love Zhaoying]

13 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I think there are a few SL users who end up naked, sweaty and high while they're in SL.

See? Same principles!

[Sid Nagy]

28 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I'm surprised so many people on this forum didn't seem to recognize that Burning Man (along with Snow Crash) were major inspirations for Philip Rosedale's vision for Second Life.

#1. Radical Inclusion - Yes. This is part of the unspoken principals of Second Life.

#2. Gifting - This is still part of SL, but many people seem to think it means getting free stuff, rather than how they give their time, experience, and sometimes stuff to others. With so much free stuff available, we probably forget the value of giving to those (usually newbies) who don't have much and who don't know where to get stuff to enhance their SL experience. 

#3. Decommodification - is still a pricipal of the platform when compared to social media sites, but hasn't been a principal for most user-creators of SL ever since the introduction of linden dollars.

#4. Radical Self-Reliance - "This game is boring" is the mating call of those who don't know how to rely on themselves for entertainment. The rest of us have also become so used to buying stuff, that we've forgotten it's even possible to build what we need. We believe we're not talented enough or we don't want to "waste" the time it takes to create something, forgetting the joy of creating and building that we once had as children. Building in SL can also be incredibly relaxing, even if one doesn't end up using what they make, but if one does use it, there is a feeling of pride that comes from knowing one made this thing.

#5. Radical Self Expression - Yes. This is still a big part of SL.

#6. Communal Effort - This is rare, but it's around. There's no way to have a roleplay community without communal effort, for instance.

#7. Civic Responsibility - Some people get this and some people don't. Some will have blaring lights or fullbright textures in SL, just as Elon Musk would have a flashing X logo atop a RL building, because they simply don't consider the feelings or needs of other people to be of any consequence to them. 

#8. Leaving No Trace - This doesn't really apply to SL, unless you want to consider all the sims, stores, and groups that have left. They sink beneath the waters of SL as if they had never existed, though they may still remain in our memories.

#9. Participation - This has gotten less and less common as users choose to stay isolated on their islands, in their homes and skyboxes. At least we have Group Chat when we don't feel like socializing avatar to avatar. I'm not complaining about this self-isolation though. It's a choice for many of us when we want to get away from the stresses of dealing with the real world and other people in RL.

#10. Immediacy - This is real when we take the time to talk with other people in SL. One has to spend more than a few minutes to feel it though, ironically. We can't know someone from looking at their avatar or having only a surface conversation. We have to allow ourselves to trust a stranger with a piece of ourself and allow them to trust us with a piece of themself. Then when we leave that conversation, we realize we've actually connected with someone across miles of RL space and with whom we might never have spoken with in RL.

Burning man isn't a thingy in Europe.
When I came to SL in 2007 there were some kind of Burning man festivities, but I never dived deep into it. I mainly thought: Some hippies that forgot that the era was long over.
Thanks for the insights @Persephone Emerald.