Introducing Senra Avatars... what do you think?

[Qie Niangao]

3 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Has anyone tried Senra bodies on adult furniture, to see how the avatar body looks in various bendy poses?

Haven't tried adult furniture yet, but this old pose stand commonly used for testing rigging might be useful if you happen to have one lying about.

To me, the model holds together pretty well, at least to that pose stand's degree of stretching, except for the shoulders. There is something seriously weird about that geometry, as if the arms and torso were crafted separately and strapped together with baling wire and chewing gum. (I swear somebody posted in one of these threads about the armpits simply being set too high, but I can't find that post now to cite it properly. Anyway, that's exactly what it looks like to me.)

[Stephanie Misfit]

I am messing around making skins and shapes for Jamie (using skins I have made previously), and I have to say that the mouth is a real pain to get right. Is anyone else trying to work with Jamie and finding this? The rest of the face works fine if you stick to the SLUV map but the mouth just looks odd no matter what I do. Also, will the dev kit include 3d files of the head?

[Theresa Tennyson]

I actually like the female head more than the typical squashed cashew with a duck bill commercial mesh head state-of-the-art. One thing that I noticed is that the blink and eye movements built into the head are rather s...l...o...w and make you look slightly stoned. Pulling them out makes a difference.

[CandyCole]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

You can just edit the nails "universal" tattoo and apply a tint. I did that to mine, first copying one in Blake / Senra Blake - Nails, wearing it, and editing it.

I haven't tried animating the face to give Blake facial expressions. It would be worth a try, copying the anims from a LeLutka or other head, but I'm not sure if there are freebie bento facial expressions anywhere, to make it practical to create a free facial expression HUD for new users.

I dropped the Blake head and went with the LeLutka Alain freebie (from a while back), so that's the expressions sorted and overall a much better head. I did try to extract some expression anims initially from the Lelutka HUD but it wouldn't rez in a sandbox on the ground, it immediately disappeared then never reappeared on subsequent attempts. I guess being rezzable is somehow locked-out to prevent such pilfering of HUD parts. Now with the Alain head in place expressions are no longer an issue.

Re: tinting the nails on the Senra Body - I tried editing the Senra Body while wearing it and the whole body changes colour. How do you target the nails only? .. I'm guessing this is an edit feature I have yet to learn.

[Stephanie Misfit]

23 minutes ago, CandyCole said:

I dropped the Blake head and went with the LeLutka Alain freebie (from a while back), so that's the expressions sorted and overall a much better head. I did try to extract some expression anims initially from the Lelutka HUD but it wouldn't rez in a sandbox on the ground, it immediately disappeared then never reappeared on subsequent attempts. I guess being rezzable is somehow locked-out to prevent such pilfering of HUD parts. Now with the Alain head in place expressions are no longer an issue.

"No rez" scripts are a bane and are usually used by creators in the mistaken belief that they stop theft. They don't, because things don't need to be rezzed to be stolen. Always a true pleasure to come across these scripts in a no-copy object, really, one of the true joys of SL is to accidentally rez a no-copy item with one of these in it 🤬 If you come across these in something you have bought and paid for and have a need to inspect or open it, try rezzing the item in a no-script sandbox or anywhere else that scripts are disabled. No, this is not an exploit, it is working as intended. No script sandboxes are good for getting around other consumer-unfriendly scripts too, I will leave it to you to work out what they might be though or I will be annoying too many merchants with my post 🤣

[CandyCole]

Senra - I tried, persevered, but I bailed. It was the nails that broke the camels back, they looked like sh1t.

However, the good news is that it got me actively trying to improve my male alt which had classic head and body.

He now has the LeLutka Alain (free) head plus Sweet's Male BoM Bento Mesh Body, which was already sat gathering dust in my inventory. Nails back to normal, no jazz hands, expressions and body/head now fully meshed-up. 

Thanks Senra, for the nudge.

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, CandyCole said:

Re: tinting the nails on the Senra Body - I tried editing the Senra Body while wearing it and the whole body changes colour. How do you target the nails only? .. I'm guessing this is an edit feature I have yet to learn.

I realize it's too late for this venture, but just in case it helps anybody else: It may not be obvious you can edit stuff by right-clicking it in Inventory or the Appearance floater, so here's one way to do it:

That's supposed to show selecting the "Now wearing..." menu item from the "Avatar" menu. (That's obviously Firestorm. In modern viewers the Avatar menu is much shorter, with a separate "Me" menu for stuff that's not actually about the avatar.) Anyway, that should produce an Appearance floater something like this:

It's the "Wearing" tab that's easiest to work with here, which should already be open. Then just right-click the "nails" universal tattoo that's being worn, and choose "Edit" to get this:

… and let the fun begin. You can change the textures too, if you wanted to start a BoM manicure business.

[CandyCole]

5 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

... Then just right-click the "nails" universal tattoo that's being worn, and choose "Edit" to get this:

There lies my problem ..  I wasn't wearing the 'Senra Blake - nails - natural#', or any other. Only the body. What I was seeing must've been some sort of nail base associated with the body. Explains everything.

Very thoughtful and kind to go the trouble of setting out the steps in image form so thickies like me can understand, even though I'd already failed at the start line well before the first hurdle.

[Jaylinbridges]

I have not tried either Senra head in a Bento enabled sex bed yet.  I can't find anyone willing to test with her without a paper bag.  Oh wait Jamie and Blake together - like brother and sister.  That should work.

 

[Ceka Cianci]

Honestly ,after messing with the Jamie mesh head in the sliders, it makes me grateful for my lilly head..

I don't think I've ever messed with a mesh head with the lack of freedom in the sliders and the big areas that are impacted with each slider..

Adjusting the corners of the mouth also adjust whats going on right under the nose? 0o

I finally had to delete all the animations in the head to stop the eyebrows from blinking..It was driving me nuts.

I've tried messing with the head about four times this weekend and  just end up frustrated with the lack of what we can adjust in them and just put my avatar back on..

I'm not going to go into the whole list of things because I've spent enough time on it already..

I'll just end it up with..They didn't want to compete with the mesh body and head market.. I think they don't have to worry about that..

So frustrated..

 

[Dafadilia Wayfarer]

At this point I'm not sure what I think about them. The first photo was my newly rezzed alt and the second is after working with the shape, getting a different skin and hair, etc. I don't know if I made her worse or better. I've not even worked on the head shape yet, just the body. I just finally logged out after wanting to cry in frustration. I will come back to this new project of mine after I've had a few days to breathe. 🤣

I will say this though. I have been blogging about fashion in SL for over ten years and I love it. I love putting low cost avis together and walking through the details of what I find to readers who may find it helpful. I can't even begin to imagine how these will be for new users. I'm hoping that I can do something with my new little alt here because this this is the kind of project I enjoy. I would like to incorporate the Jamie and Blake body both in my blog in future. I'm just not certain if these avatars are going to be appealing to new comers giving them incentive to stay beyond a few days. They aren't exactly bad from my perspective, but there is definately room for improvement.

I know they are in beta so I'm really trying to keep that fact in mind. Plus, they need elf ears! Just saying!

[Eddy Vortex]

Nails are unlinkable from the body. The only thing that could be unlinked is the neck sheath.

[Jaylinbridges]

Jamie on bed looking for her high heels.  No changes or additions, right out of the Library default settings.

Bento face and body poses look the same as on the expensive bodies, with the slimmer body shapes at least.  Mouth expressions from Bento AVSitter2.2 are not the best though, more like torture than pleasure. But that is the face animation that comes with the poses, same on all heads I have tried. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Jaylinbridges

[Rick Finesmith]

I got a decent pair of chelsea boot from the Blake folder so its not all bad.

 

[Qie Niangao]

On 8/5/2023 at 3:46 AM, CandyCole said:

Also, any ideas for some facial expressions? .. He looks numb in the head. I tried to extract from the free LeLutka Alain head HUD I have but it couldn't be rezzed and doesn't work without the Alain head attached.

I started to wonder if the Senra heads couldn't be animated, somehow not "Bento enough", whatever that could mean. It just seems so weird that there are no facial animations that come with the bodies. 

So I went scavenger-hunting in my LeLutka head and HUD. The HUD contains eye animations and the head has everything else. All the ones I tested "work" in Blake: they move the right part of the face in something like the same direction as they move my LeLutka head, at least.

I still don't know if there are freebie Bento facial animation packs, or if an animator could tell us that facial anims really must be matched to the specific facial mesh model.

It still seems weird that they'd release this totally unanimated head (other than blinking and moving the eyes). Isn't it kind of a problem that the lips don't move when voice input is used? (I don't remember how talking animations are triggered; I never use voice myself but this seems to be important to newbies.)

[SabrinaCooke]

4 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

I started to wonder if the Senra heads couldn't be animated, somehow not "Bento enough", whatever that could mean. It just seems so weird that there are no facial animations that come with the bodies. 

So I went scavenger-hunting in my LeLutka head and HUD. The HUD contains eye animations and the head has everything else. All the ones I tested "work" in Blake: they move the right part of the face in something like the same direction as they move my LeLutka head, at least.

I still don't know if there are freebie Bento facial animation packs, or if an animator could tell us that facial anims really must be matched to the specific facial mesh model.

It still seems weird that they'd release this totally unanimated head (other than blinking and moving the eyes). Isn't it kind of a problem that the lips don't move when voice input is used? (I don't remember how talking animations are triggered; I never use voice myself but this seems to be important to newbies.)

I used the facial animations AO from one of my old freebie Altamura bodies. They still have them at the London City Freebie Megastore. 

[Elvina Ewing]

Very disappointed with Senra. I naively thought it would be something like Ruth upgrade, i.e. that they would replace the core system Ruth with a new mesh body that is much more HD, but well optimized. That it would conform to Ruth's size and that old fitmesh classic sizes clothes could be worn with it... 😫😢 Of course they wouldn't do anything like that to destroy the mesh body market, it was stupid to hope...

Now about the mesh body itself (Jamie). The worst things:

• armpits cut waaaaaay to high;
• way too skinny chicken leg calves and knees that cannot be improved by any setting
• small breasts impossible at all
• body muscle slider seems to affect only arms, and even then it has to be set to 100 to have any definition to arms so that they don't look like sticks

The positive things are few, i kinda liked the shoulders-collar-bones-neck area, and thighs.

I have never worn nor even tried on any mesh heads. I tried on Jamie's head and OMG those lips!! 😱 No slider setting was responding to make the lips less "kissy"/"ducky". So, just no.

That's the best shape i could come up with , modifying my own old shape to fit Jamie body, skin, eyebrows. Eyebrows are also modified, set to lowest possible, and it's still too high for my taste. This one is 1.98m tall.

Then i thought, would it be possible to make a nice (or at least ok looking) shape that would have more natural curves, rather than a skinny photomodel type...

This one is 1.70m and body fat 55. Making it so short gave more definition to the arms and legs right away, but the arms are still too skinny! Love handles slider, strangely, controls the waste line, making it wider, and not the actual love handles area (which should be lower (where the white of the underwear sits). The body fat set so high made a huge gap between the mesh body's neck and the system head, so apparently neck isn't included to react to body fat slider.

[norajulian]

This entire threat has been one giant roasting session, and so I’m hesitant to add my own thoughts here. 
 

However, 

1) It feels like a rushed job. As in, three months ago, somebody at the downtown office was like “oh, no. We promised them a release date and I got distracted making my way through grandma’s recipe book” distracted. The polys don’t make sense, the rigging doesn’t make sense, my life doesn’t make sense. 

2) I have concerns that whoever made the female body has never actually seen a RL female to understand correct dimensions of hips vs shoulders ratio, etc. 

3) The skin is flat and matte, like looking through an aged film canister, but we didn’t dust it. 
 

 

The above being said, I like the initial personalization before folks drop inworld. I like how this new avatar better prepares newcomers on the layering forefront to dip into this new mesh head/body world. I feel like that was the goal going into this project, and if that’s it - THAT is the mark LL hit. I think the clothing quality on the tops is close to hitting the mark on what I expected. 
 

If the rigging is fixed, will we all see new deliveries? 🤭 She ain’t cute, but SL is what you make of it. 

[PearlettaStone]

love that tip  you said above making polish. Here is another. 

How to make Senra Jamie  nail polish.    In firestorm. 
The nail texture needs to be 128px x 128 px to fit the nail. In  building classes  the teacher  said best to use your texture you take photo's around your house like marble you can do own nails or use fabric or even draw and color on paper. 

Go in to inventory put on a fresh one of Senra Nails Natural wear it then go in to wearing then edit the senra jamie nail. It will come up as Editing Universal. You will need  to press on the Aux2 Tattoo first then pick teature comes up but right by it to the right your invetory show up look in texture under file you made for texture of the nail. Press on the texture to load then press apply uuid press apply now push Ok. Next one in Aux3 tattoo you need to do the same as first one you did. At the top under Universal Make sure you edit new name for your nail push save as will be easy to find make sure to make a copy as back up.

Edited August 6, 2023 by PearlettaStone

[Blush Bravin]

45 minutes ago, Elvina Ewing said:

The body fat set so high made a huge gap between the mesh body's neck and the system head, so apparently neck isn't included to react to body fat slider.

I'm wondering if this is the case to be sure the body will work with the third party heads. 

9 minutes ago, norajulian said:

3) The skin is flat and matte, like looking through an aged film canister, but we didn’t dust it. 

I'm not sure, but with the little bit of experience I had with PBR textures in Sansar, I learned that the highlights we normally see baked into textures aren't desireable in a PBR  rendered environment. Since the Senra bodies are PBR ready this might be why the skins seem so dull. It's just a guess.

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Elvina Ewing said:

The body fat set so high made a huge gap between the mesh body's neck and the system head, so apparently neck isn't included to react to body fat slider.

I know of no bodies on the market that are rigged that way. Some have a series of shells set to different body fat settings, but even those are getting scarce since the advent of the Lelutka-compatibility neck most new bodies have.

And some of your other points are valid, but you can say basically the same things about the Maitreya mesh body and it's by far the most popular body on the grid.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Theresa Tennyson

[Qie Niangao]

30 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I'm not sure, but with the little bit of experience I had with PBR textures in Sansar, I learned that the highlights we normally see baked into textures aren't desireable in a PBR  rendered environment. Since the Senra bodies are PBR ready this might be why the skins seem so dull. It's just a guess.

I keep wondering what "PBR ready" actually means here. That wondering is broader than just Senra, for me. I don't understand how baking is intended to work with glTF materials, but maybe I just haven't kept up.

So my alt took a trip to the Rumpus Room sandbox, running the current 7.0.0.mumble PBR project viewer. Because Senra is modifiable, I could rez a copy, edit it and look at the mesh surfaces. They're baking the standard BoM system textures on the regular ol' "Blinn-Phong" alpha-masked diffusemap—not surprising, in order to work with normal BoM content—and have no "PBR Metallic Roughness" textures at all.

It's actually the "Base color" map of the PBR materials that's supposed to be clear of baked-in shadows or shine, but that doesn't really describe the "flatness" of the Senra skins because they have extreme shading (especially those eye sockets and jaw).

One can't really fault Senra for not shipping with a PBR skin; nobody has that either. I just wish I knew how PBR was supposed to work for any body, and when. We could certainly hack an applier for a PBR skin (overriding BoM on traditional materials), but surely there must be something planned to specifically avoid that.

[PearlettaStone]

Senra Head & Body it might look tricky  at first but once you get the hang of the mechanics  it gets easy just take some time take breaks save stuff go back to it baby steps. Play some music when you edit fix your Senra , take breaks, get fresh air then come back to it.  

 

Autumn in the Summertime look  but you can wear your look how ever you like. 

 

Senra Jamie - Head & Body both mesh find in the sl  inventory.

 Senra Jamie - hair - style 9 - dark brown ( In sl inventory).

Senra Jamie -hair style 9 -hair base ( In sl inventory).

Senra Jamie - skin - 2  ( In sl inventory).

Senra Jamie - nails - natural 5  ( In sl inventory).

Tuty - LUCKY GIRL BENTO AO Priority 3- 0L  ( The body needs bento ao to keep the hands swaying with movement. The Ao comes with is nice you may just need to add some bento animation for hands.  Senra hand fix https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/bento-hand-fix-starfish-hand-fixer-add-to-worn/19048327

In the middle of the floor of the store you will see bright yellow letters above will say Bento. 

http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Ubunil/163/108/136

Female Party Blossom  ( In sl inventory) Move to the side of the hair in the corner pin it in. 

Eyebrows  on Jamie - eyebrow for Genus head BOM-  1L ( mayuge_genus ) 

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/eyebrow-for-Genus-head-BOMunpack/20384092

Lipstick on Jamie - GIFT MH-Rebel Lipstick for Genus BOM  -10L 

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/GIFT-MH-Rebel-Lipstick-for-Genus-BOM/20259093

You can use the lovely eyes jamie in light blue or dark blue/grey eyes comes with also. I changed the shape of eyes make bigger I had to find some bigger eyes. 

 (hides system eyes)Alpha Eyes - 10L  

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/alpha-eyes/22606734

 May naturaul eyeshadow -Classic Eyeshadow 5 - 10L

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/May-Natural-eyeshadow/11977561

[ae] Eyeshadow F

[ae] Eyeshadow F Pink Lemonade (ADD) - 125L 

( in the front middle of the store by the skins)

@ AE http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Genesis/85/69/42

Eyeshadow in order. 

Eyeshadow - Izzie's - Romy Eyeshadow brown ( Izzie's - Romy Skin Gift ) 

As you walk in PALOMMA PLAZA  to the right of the store by the front wall its on a booth box by the windows. 

 

 

Pulse Mesh Eye: . Light-100L 

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Pulse-Mesh-Eyes-Light/8176060

Eyelashes -37- Extended *REDGRAVE*-100L 

( Go were the stairs are to the right side by the Mascara  poster find the lashes bottom row ) They are like lashes with hint of  Mascara). You will need to resize lashes tho put in the daek area by liner  by the eye so fits on to the lower eye crease  inner lash line and side of eye use the right side top to make bigger. 

@REDGRAVE  http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/REDGRAVE Skins Fashion/87/104/23

Glamorize Freckle face -4 freckle tattoo layers -5L 

In the pack Wearing .:Glamorize:. Freckle Face - Gingerly

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Glamorize-Freckle-Face-4-Freckle-Tattoo-Layers/1400547

Mue Full Body Light Freckles Tattoo -10L 

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Mu-Full-Body-Light-Freckles-Tattoo/4738476

MESH Amber Rose Gown and Necklace by Moonstar

Wear the *V* amber rose gown BELLEZA (in box ) You will need fill the torso muscle for the arms so and bust to fit push bust up.

Wear also *V* amber rose necklace - resizeable ( you will need to edit it around your neck push it down if you need to. 

Make sure you put on *V* alpha amber rose gown (so it fits like a glove. ) Many clothes come with alpha good to try them what works for you. 

 

When you rez in go to the left keep going straight in to the store to the right you ether take the teleport on the sign go to the 3rd floor , or take the ramp , or the elevator you need to press 3 to go up.  The outfit is in the first area to the left in the middle called Moon star. You will need to unpack it at a sandbox or dressing room on the other side of the sim but make sure you wearing undergarments good to wear ( Senra Jamie - underwear - top )Also (  Senra Jamie - underwear - bottom) its g rated sim good idea to save the undergarments to outfit when you need to change clothes.But for  any thing in the future allway's wear  underpants or leggings some places have dress code with being G Rated and Moderate good to read the info on location allway's come fully clothed in saved outfit so your not going someone where in your birthday suit. Also some  bom pasteis for the bust for some tops. 

Location  AJUDA BRASIL  http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/AJUDA BRASIL VOLUNTARIOS/32/20/40

 

Shoes - S@BBiA::Ribbon Mule(fat pack)-30L   Update I found that the S@BBiA: Tweed Pumps (Lara) ones fit better on Jamie feet ( wear tweed pump show base so it fits ) 

 

Extras :Tweed Pumps rose pink come with outfit also gift in store. ( on the wall by the front door) 

S@BBiA::Strappy Platform Sandals gift ( in front on poster in middle ) 

S@BBiA::Tights:Free ( front desk ) S@BBiA::Socks::Gift ( front desk ) 

Aslo some letter boards and guess and win game for gift outfit & shoes. 

Alternative Dressy shoes  Senra Jamie - shoes - loafers -( find in inentory )   S@BBiA::Frill Flat Sandals , S@BBiA::Strap Pumps,S@BBiA::Strappy Platform Sandals , S@BBiA::Flower Pumps , S@BBiA::Tweed Pumps  

Jamie's body seems to fit some standard mesh and belleza stuff as long as it comes with an alpha . Shoes belleza and lara ones and some classic ones work.  Bom clothes work well as well. Some of the vintage system clothes you can edit the clothes make sleeves longer or shorter or v neck parts make into a heart shape dress top , Skirts could make wider or have a slit. So messing around with the new old stuff you can mix and match your look as you go.   Some outfits you will need to edit your body from time to time. Places to find stuff Look around your surrounding try things demo things look at many stores let the other see you are wearing let the creators see as well.   { ViVi } , S@BBiA , Palomma Plaza , AJUDA BRASIL VOLUNTARIOS , freebie galaxy  , Helping Haven , Wise Heron Mall , Freebie  , Help Island Store  and many more. 

Shape for Jamie 

 

Eyebrow shape 

eyebrow size 32 
eyebrow density 27 
eyebrow height 23 
eyebrow arc 65 
eyebrow point 76 

 

Body 
Nose width 16 
nostril width 41
nostril division 68 
nose thickness 0 
upper bridge 5 
lower bridge 42 
bridge width 27 
nose tip angle 35 
nope tip shape 14 
crooked nose 50 

lip width 55 
lip fullness 22 
lip thickness 73 
lip ratio 93 
lip postion 26 
mouth corner 29 
lip depth 34 
lip cleft 50 
shift mouth 50 

Chin angle 82 
jaw shape 47 
chin depth 0 
jaw angle 50 
jaw gut 50 
jowls 21 
chin cleft 10 
upper chin cleft 9 
chin neck 0 

torso muscles 48 
neck thickness 23 
neck length 15 
shoulders 0 
breast size 63 
breast cleavage 0 
arm legth 78 
hand size 33 
torso legth 41
love handle 7 
belly size 2 

Legs muscles 76 
leg length 28 
hip width 63 
hip length 83 
butt size 44 
saddle bags 24 
knee angle 40 
footsize 29  

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by PearlettaStone

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

I keep wondering what "PBR ready" actually means here. That wondering is broader than just Senra, for me. I don't understand how baking is intended to work with glTF materials, but maybe I just haven't kept up.

. We could certainly hack an applier for a PBR skin (overriding BoM on traditional materials), but surely there must be something planned to specifically avoid that.

They will of course create some lsl commands before finally releasing PBR, so it will simply be along the lines of :

 

llSetPBRAmbientMap [uuid of bom bake]

llSetPBRNormalMap [uuid of normal map]

llSetPBRRoughnesMap [uuid of roughness map]

llSetPBRMetalnessMap [uuid of metalness map]

 

Don't get hung up on silly musings on how they incorporate bom bakes into those gltf imagemap 4 pack things, applier style script code is here to stay

[Chiryll]

I watched the LL promotion video and I can only judge the appeareance of the new "product" how it appears there. I can not judge its technical finesse. It is interesting to see what LL seems to think how avatars have to look nowadays. Is that male avatar there the result of a cooperation with Walt Disney and Mark Zuckerberg? Or is it an upgraded playmobil figure? No sexappeal whatsoever. Unmanly face. The clothes look like made with plasticin, done by (in that case very skilled) 6 yo children in a kindergarten.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Chiryll