Senra Body SDK Applications Now Open

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Reyetta Claven said:

So the multi-body fatpacks that currently exist can grow to include Senra items as well, if creators so desire.

Are you going to hold up a release for all bodies while waiting for LL to sign off on the Senra version?

What happens if they ask for source files.

Who gets to see your secret sauce .. a Linden .. a Mole (as in .. another resident, likely with a store, operating as a contractor under a pseudonym).

What happens if they disprove of your work.

What happens when your customers get in touch asking why their foolish newbie purchases don't work with <brand> body, are you going to explain how that works or ghost them?

 

If all Senra does is deliberately waste a newbies money, do we even deserve a second chance ?

[Dolly Waifu]

15 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Are you going to hold up a release for all bodies while waiting for LL to sign off on the Senra version?

What happens if they ask for source files.

Who gets to see your secret sauce .. a Linden .. a Mole (as in .. another resident, likely with a store, operating as a contractor under a pseudonym).

What happens if they disprove of your work.

What happens when your customers get in touch asking why their foolish newbie purchases don't work with <brand> body, are you going to explain how that works or ghost them?

 

If all Senra does is deliberately waste a newbies money, do we even deserve a second chance ?

Me? No. Which means I wouldn't be a good candidate to sign up for the Senra Devkit. Other creators can update their products later, if they'd like. Or release the Senra size separately. Whatever works best for their brand.

You give them if that's part of the agreement you signed. 

I agree that this should at least be disclosed. And if your content is stolen by someone else, you have the right to file DMCA takedowns and other legal avenues already present in the US legal system that LL operates under.

You fix it, or you stop making things for Senra if you can't.

This already happens. Often. And creators either explain it, or don't. That's their prerogative.

It doesn't just waste a newbies money. It provides a usable body for new users that is easy to understand and learn to use. It still functions as a mesh body, just with a different infrastructure. Nobody is required to use a premium mesh body/head. An upgrade is not necessary. By your logic, why should LL even provide a free body? Why isn't content for Ruth or dog lady banned? It's just a waste of money if they end up upgrading later, right? Why don't they just charge new users $60 USD for their account and start them with Maitreya or Jake and a Lelutka EvoX head and a smattering of clothes from some big brands?

Edited July 29, 2023 by Reyetta Claven

[Rathgrith027]

3 minutes ago, Reyetta Claven said:

It's just a waste of money if they end up upgrading later, right? Why don't they just charge new users $60 USD for their account and start them with Maitreya or Jake and a Lelutka EvoX head and a smattering of clothes from some big brands?

Reyetta hun, I know you're being sarcastic, but please don't give the Lindens more bad ideas.

That being said, Senra was never meant to be a top-of-the-line body. It was meant to be a sufficient body for new users that doesn't look dated, and is open for people to develop for. That being said, it doesn't excuse the very terrible inefficiencies that are present in the model.

As much as I'd love to bring my boyfriend into SL and have him use Senra with something like M4 Mars / Venus or something, right now I'd rather test my luck with the old TMP bodies. 

[Perrie Juran]

6 minutes ago, Reyetta Claven said:

It provides a usable body for new users that is easy to understand and learn to use.

I do understand the need to make the initial introduction to mesh bodies simple and easy to understand for new Residents. Even though I had been in SL for many years when mesh bodies were first introduced I was a little intimidated by them.

I suspect only a small number of Merchants will sign up. They do need to think about ROI. Many continue to cut back on the number of bodies that they rig for. The ROI has to be there for the time that they spend rigging.

[Perrie Juran]

6 minutes ago, Rathgrith027 said:

and is open for people to develop for.

It is only available to a select group of people to develop for so I would not use the word "open" with it.  (I know, semantics).

[Coffee Pancake]

5 minutes ago, Reyetta Claven said:

Why don't they just charge new users $60 USD for their account and start them with Maitreya or Jake and a Lelutka EvoX head and a smattering of clothes from some big brands?

Why aren't we doing this.

Why don't we have a turbo boost start .. $30 and you get to pick an premium 3rd party avatar and outfit. Put your money in and scroll though a load of body and outfit combinations. Allow any and all avatar creators to submit avatar bodies and outfit to the pool. Let people see numbers for the popularity of the component parts they are buying. Offer full ready to go Human, furry, everything, avatars. Users get a head start for less than the cost of shopping the parts, brands get a captive sale as part of on-boarding.

The very best SL has to offer right at the door.

You enter the world set. Made. Ready and in good standing.

 

Why is this all so hard. Why is it always up hill both ways to a result no one actually wants.

 

 

[Gabriele Graves]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

It's not just that.

This creates a situation where the best (and most ethical) advice for new players is "don't buy stuff for your Senra avatar, save your money till you get a real mesh body".

 

This was always going to be the only advice given to people.  It clearly wasn't meant to last for much time outside the Welcome Hub.

[Galaxy Littlepaws]

One of the big appeals of SL back in the day was that you could just make a shirt or pants or the like for the default avatar if you wanted to and had the skill, and maybe a few lindens you fished up or won. This pretty much takes that option away for those people, who may be wanting to learn how to create content for themselves at little-to-no cost, or to open up a store. They would have to hunt for some other body that's less restrictive with their dev kits and doesn't cost a lot, but at that point why would they even bother with making things for the new default avi they got for free?

[Extrude Ragu]

CopyPasta, but just so my opinions on this are available here.

 

The most charitable explanation I can come up with is that since it was part of the 'nux' (New User eXperience project) that these decisions were made through the eyes of improving the experience for a new user - Wanting to deliver a consistent quality of content, and a predictable unpacking experience for new users and that's why we end up with all these rules. Then someone at LL has passed their desires along to a legal department and legal people just haven't yet learnt how to be compatible with laymen for some reason.

 

So I mean the way I see it is like it's a conflict of interests, LL want consistent new user experience and we just want to make whatever we feel like for the body, regardless of our skill level or w/e. But maybe we could find a middle ground that let's LL deliver a consistent new user experience whilst still letting us mess with the new body. Like for example, instead of just outright banning people who won't sign documents and meet standards, how about rewarding the people who do go the extra mile by promoting their content in the new user area or on the mp with a big quality LL approved stamp and free listing boosting.  And then for everyone else just let them do what they like regardless of how good or bad it is but just don't offer the same promotion.

[Hunny Bunny]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Why aren't we doing this.

Why don't we have a turbo boost start .. $30 and you get to pick an premium 3rd party avatar and outfit. Put your money in and scroll though a load of body and outfit combinations. Allow any and all avatar creators to submit avatar bodies and outfit to the pool. Let people see numbers for the popularity of the component parts they are buying. Offer full ready to go Human, furry, everything, avatars. Users get a head start for less than the cost of shopping the parts, brands get a captive sale as part of on-boarding.

The very best SL has to offer right at the door.

You enter the world set. Made. Ready and in good standing.

 

Why is this all so hard. Why is it always up hill both ways to a result no one actually wants.

 

 

Let's take this idea further. If you're familiar with bloggers, they already do something similar to this. They share a picture and tell you where to get all the items they're wearing. Now, let's kick it up a notch.

Imagine residents selling a bundle, just like that SL competitor. In this bundle, you'd get everything you need to achieve the look they showcased in the picture. From the head, body, hair, skin, shape, outfit, makeup, tattoos – the whole package! They simply add all the MP links from the various creator's stores to a list and when someone purchases the bundle all those items are deployed from those various stores directly to their received items. It's like a Hello Fresh meal kit but for your avatar's style.

With one purchase, you'll have all the items you need, and they'll even provide detailed instructions on how to unpack, attach, and apply everything. It's a convenient and hassle-free way to get the whole look in one go.

[Nimil Blackflag]

1 hour ago, Extrude Ragu said:

Like for example, instead of just outright banning people who won't sign documents and meet standards, how about rewarding the people who do go the extra mile by promoting their content in the new user area or on the mp with a big quality LL approved stamp and free listing boosting.  And then for everyone else just let them do what they like regardless of how good or bad it is but just don't offer the same promotion.

see honestly this is what i was assuming would be the sign up portion of things. i can totally understand quality and standard control if you were LL trying to get custom content for their avatars set up in say, the welcome area, or something like that. just like being in one of their events, there's rules and standards there, no biggie. when it comes to creating at large, i don't think we should be having to send people through so many hoops for the base avatar, even if it is meant to be a throw away newbie avatar.

[Gabriele Graves]

The biggest issue with this in my opinion is having to submit the creation for review.  This is a clear indication that they don't expect a wide adoption for any length of time beyond new people and the Welcome Hub.  It simply would not scale if many creators were constantly creating things that would all have to be reviewed so the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the expectation is there will only be a small number of creators making stuff.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Gabriele Graves

[Tazzie Tuque]

I have read everything here so far, and there have been some good comments both pro and con about this whole idea.  I think I said this before and I will say it again.  The only real sticking point for me is that need to send your work off to LL for approval before you can do anything with it.  I am sorry but I do not agree with this at all.  What if the person evaluating the product finds nothing wrong with it but just does not like the style (I am talking about clothing here) because it is not something they like, so are they going to put the stop on  your item because of that?  Who will keep a check on the checkers?  Besides that,  I would not put any item out that I would not buy and wear myself, so quality is going to be good and I resent being treated like a school girl having to get my work checked.  Nope that one point is what stopped me for applying for the kit.  That just is not gonna happen.

[Sammy Huntsman]

29 minutes ago, Tazzie Tuque said:

I have read everything here so far, and there have been some good comments both pro and con about this whole idea.  I think I said this before and I will say it again.  The only real sticking point for me is that need to send your work off to LL for approval before you can do anything with it.  I am sorry but I do not agree with this at all.  What if the person evaluating the product finds nothing wrong with it but just does not like the style (I am talking about clothing here) because it is not something they like, so are they going to put the stop on  your item because of that?  Who will keep a check on the checkers?  Besides that,  I would not put any item out that I would not buy and wear myself, so quality is going to be good and I resent being treated like a school girl having to get my work checked.  Nope that one point is what stopped me for applying for the kit.  That just is not gonna happen.

I think they are doing this approval method, to see if the creators are following the guidelines of how they packed their items. That being said, I totally understand the frustration. But I can also see why they are doing this. As they are trying to make this as simplistic as possible for new users. So by reviewing to see if you followed the packing standards. They are ultimately helping the new user. 

[Marianne Little]

Maybe this is only the start, and LL does not want to give all people in SL the dev kit now, because LL will control what is for sale in a "Senra shopping district" in the Welcome Hubs.

This will be LL approved and probably PG and "safe". Lace lingerie and jockstraps the most daring. 

LL can also remove the "Send us for approval" part in the future.

I do not know legal stuff. Maybe LL will sit on the rights to decide who can use the "Senra" name, so they can avoid scam? It is so much old and outdated things that never disappear in SL. Greedy people can trick newbies and use old template mesh in standard sizes and slap on "Senra" on the package. If LL has a list over who got the dev kit, they can see if the creator is on the list, and pull the stuff without more fuss.

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, Marianne Little said:

This will be LL approved and probably PG and "safe". Lace lingerie and jockstraps the most daring. 

We don't know that part, so don't say that. You may create a panic for no reason. 

[Sasy Scarborough]

The approval section does not actually say that every item has to be sent, it says that 'if' LL wish to see said items, that you provide said items, its after the () section but it is there.

[Sammy Huntsman]

Look at this from this point of view, especially for some people who joined when we had rigged mesh. So you open your package and see a bunch of different sizes, for a new user that would be overwhelming. I mean even as a long-time user, especially after a shopping spree it can get overwhelming to go through and unpack everything. Then take a few minutes to delete everything. They want to Keep it as simple as possible for the new user, even down to how a creator puts together the folder. 

[EllieAnne Silverfall]

5 hours ago, steeljane42 said:

Given how those new bodies/heads look like, general idea and presentation of them by LL (and Patch) they are very likely thinking it's just a body/head most new (actual new) users will swap for "something better" the moment those people will decide to buy some L$.

In a way it reminds me of some F2P mmos, especially mobile ones. Give a new user something not truly awful (like the current starting bodies). Gear/characters etc. Just enough so they'd stick around for a bit, then gently (or not so gently in case of those predatory mobile gacha games) nudge them towards the shop with "way better stuff".

And since LL doesn't sell any actual content in SL's case this nudge will be towards the currently popular bodies and heads, which not only do look better, but also will have pretty much unlimited choice of clothing/accessories available to them compared to a very limited and curated pool of releases approved by LL for the Senra.

Thus making a new user a part of the ecosystem/SL's economy, or shopping part of it anyway. In a similar way I'm sure those tiny LL homes are also were meant as a starting step giving new land owners a bit of taste in decoration and having a land in general. Except many people are actually totally fine with something as small, so they never got anything else.

I hadn’t thought of it this way, but makes complete sense. And of course LL is going to want to have a bit of control with how the newbies experience SL so that they might want to stay after dipping the toe in

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, EllieAnne Silverfall said:

I hadn’t thought of it this way, but makes complete sense. And of course LL is going to want to have a bit of control with how the newbies experience SL so that they might want to stay after dipping the toe in

It does make sense. SL can be overwhelming at the best of times for us experienced users. Imagine what it's like for a new user, especially if they are thrown into the metaphorical lions den. When it comes to the actual mesh bodies and clothes they have to unpack. 

[Marianne Little]

13 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

We don't know that part, so don't say that. You may create a panic for no reason. 

Haha sorry. I assumed LL will want a squeaky clean new starter experience, and have the naughty stuff a bit out of sight. But I really have no idea. I haven't got a clue.

I think we, as a general we, have become more prudish. I used to lie topless in parks when I was 20-25. And now nobody does that. In the sexually free and open Scandinavia. 

[EllieAnne Silverfall]

4 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

It's not just that.

This creates a situation where the best (and most ethical) advice for new players is "don't buy stuff for your Senra avatar, save your money till you get a real mesh body".

 

Isn’t that a good thing for the SL market overall?

[Sammy Huntsman]

6 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Haha sorry. I assumed LL will want a squeaky clean new starter experience, and have the naughty stuff a bit out of sight. But I really have no idea. I haven't got a clue.

I think we, as a general we, have become more prudish. I used to lie topless in parks when I was 20-25. And now nobody does that. In the sexually free and open Scandinavia. 

I don't think that is the case, I think they are doing it. So they can make sure that the folders the items for the Senra body is as simple as possible for new users.

[Coffee Pancake]

30 minutes ago, EllieAnne Silverfall said:

I hadn’t thought of it this way, but makes complete sense. And of course LL is going to want to have a bit of control with how the newbies experience SL so that they might want to stay after dipping the toe in

Why.

if I make ugly garbage with the dev kit .. it wont be seen by new users, it wont be in starter area, it will (at best) be hidden away on the marketplace.

The poor new user wont ever know my ugly garbage exists.

Just me and whatever Linden I might have to send my files to for inspection .. I wonder, are they going to want the .blend, that would be incredibly silly considering that file can contain unrestricted python.

[Sammy Huntsman]

5 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Why.

if I make ugly garbage with the dev kit .. it wont be seen by new users, it wont be in starter area, it will (at best) be hidden away on the marketplace.

The poor new user wont ever know my ugly garbage exists.

Just me and whatever Linden I might have to send my files to for inspection .. I wonder, are they going to want the .blend, that would be incredibly silly considering that file can contain unrestricted python.

They just want the items you uploaded to SL. They don't want the blender and photoshop files. So if you make a makeup and upload it. They want to see the folder from SL. So they can see if it meets their standards of how they asked you to put the folder together.