Notes on the WelcomeHub

[animats]

Watching the welcome hub this evening.

• About two new avatars show up each minute. This is at 2130 SLT.
• There are four avatars stuck at the landing point. I assume they are bots, especially the ones with names that end in large random numbers.
• I saw a new user experience their first region crossing fail, walking from WelcomeHub to the sandbox. They got stuck walking across the bridge. They're still stuck there, half an hour later.
• Someone else has been stuck in (Editing Appearance) for 15 minutes.
• I'm seeing enough stuck avatars that I think that, for some fraction of users, SL just doesn't work right. Some of the stuck ones are bots, but not all of them.
• One of the mentors is trying to get people to dance, without much success.
• This place is boring. Somehow, the first ten minutes in Second Life need to be made fun. Somehow.
• It's not at all obvious that there is more of SL than the welcome hub.

The mentors are trying, but the overall impression is of someone trying to get a really dull party going.

[Randall Ahren]

10 minutes ago, animats said:

This place is boring. Somehow, the first ten minutes in Second Life need to be made fun. Somehow.

I recently visited a welcome hub. There were several zero day avatars and some older ones. I presume the older ones were mentors. Everyone was just standing around staring and there was no conversation in local chat. It was really, super boring. Probably, none of those zero day avatars bothered to login again.

[Drayke Newall]

39 minutes ago, animats said:

This place is boring. Somehow, the first ten minutes in Second Life need to be made fun. Somehow.

You're surprised?

I dont know how people (and LL) expected this new WelcomeHub to be anything but that as It is no different to the previous Welcome areas. Yet when that is stated to be the case or feedback for its improvement in engagement etc is offered the same forum users (and Moles) take offence or think such improvements to make it less boring, complicated, etc., will somehow affect their egos or own SL experience.

Plenty has been said in recent and past threads on how to improve the new user experience, even about how to improve the new WelcomeHub. If LL/Moles are unwilling to take that feedback on board, which they have made clear in other threads, what else can be done and what's the point of trying any further if it lands on deaf ears.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Drayke Newall

[Alwin Alcott]

i  made a new account,  surprisingly i logged not in at a Linden location, but was directed to a Chung owned region.
I know there are several portals to get in, but if i sign up on the official LL website i expect not to be directed to a third party place.
It would instantly raise red flags for me when i sign up for  SL, and not get on the Linden owned entrance. 
For me it would be logical to expect LL info or why i got there.

Nearly nobody there. Two girls, long players, that seem very busy with their on/of dance. No sign in their profiles if they are helpers.. i guess not.
They said hi, but nothing more, to busy with eachother.

Got a groupsinvites for the help group during my first rezz, but can't imagine a newbie wants to get that the moment they rezz, would they know what to do? Explain that first, wait a little and offer it after the first steps?
There's a warning sign at the rezz spot, don't join groups, except .. theirs, but the name the sign tells to join, isn't that clear shown in the inivite !! ( but it's the right group) ..confusing.
The same sign tells about helpers/mentors, but i don't see them with tags.
The path with tutorials looks pretty decent, but that's of course with my own 17.5 yrs experience.
The region looks good, but if you don't know what to do, i doubt this will work very well.

I'm there for 30 minutes now, somebody offered a dancehud, without any explanation or message .. 
It's like a selfhelp book. Thats not working, most people know that.

i'd be gone if i were new.





 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Alwin Alcott

[Love Zhaoying]

4 hours ago, animats said:

I saw a new user experience their first region crossing fail, walking from WelcomeHub to the sandbox. They got stuck walking across the bridge. They're still stuck there, half an hour later.

Do you suppose this type of issue could be due to "new avatars" (their UUID, etc.) not transferring / saving "cleanly" in such a way that the data can be loaded in the destination Region during the handoff

ETA: @animats, your posts on this are really appreciated. Question for you: Are you aware of - or did you create - a JIRA for the general issue of new Avatars getting "stuck"  in the Welcome Hub area? You had posted similar information about the issue before, but I am wondering if LL is actually aware of it.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

@Patch Linden

Why is English the only language option in all of the Welcome Hub's tuition boards and videos?  Why are there no other language options given or available to new users who cannot speak English?  Was this an oversight, or does LL simply not care about attracting or welcoming non-English speaking international users?

I find this lack of language options both surprising and disappointing, as the official SL website has English, Spanish, Portugese, French, German, Italian, Turkish, Russian and Japanese options in it.

I would think the Welcome Hub should at least have the same language options as the SL website has.

Edited July 15, 2023 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[Randall Ahren]

7 hours ago, animats said:

This place is boring.

Boredom is a problem with all of SL, not just at Welcome Hubs. Current residents are leaving faster than new ones can be found to replace them. What is  entertaining about SL? Why should anyone bother logging in?

[colleen Criss]

19 minutes ago, Randall Ahren said:

Boredom is a problem with all of SL, not just at Welcome Hubs. Current residents are leaving faster than new ones can be found to replace them. What is  entertaining about SL? Why should anyone bother logging in?

Now I'm curious, why you log in?

[colleen Criss]

I spent time there, had good chats,lots of people landing. Toured the Linden Homes. Danced. checked out the sandbox and the games there to play. I was alone and I enjoyed my little walkabout there. I am also curious about lack of languages , unless I missed them.

[bigmoe Whitfield]

if I had more time, I would go stand over there and do my best to help and interact with the new people.  but hey some good news,  my mom gets out of icu today! 

[Randall Ahren]

21 minutes ago, colleen Criss said:

Now I'm curious, why you log in?

I don't usually login, only if I want to check on something.

 

16 minutes ago, colleen Criss said:

I was alone and I enjoyed my little walkabout there.

If only more people enjoyed being alone in SL, this place would have far brighter prospects. As it is though, most come to socialize and leave disappointed.

[rasterscan]

8 hours ago, Randall Ahren said:

I recently visited a welcome hub. There were several zero day avatars and some older ones. I presume the older ones were mentors. Everyone was just standing around staring and there was no conversation in local chat. 

Perhaps there were conversations going on between mentors and newbies in IM chat, which would account for quiet local chat. ? Perhaps not, who knows.

Edited July 15, 2023 by rasterscan

[rasterscan]

A simplified welcome area, perhaps a large room, with a set of teleporters might be easier for truly new avatars ? Each teleporter for a different learning lesson. ?  Like 'Finding a home', 'Events for new folk' (motown), 'Customise your appearance' and 'Sandboxes and building in SL'. No ? ok.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, rasterscan said:

A simplified welcome area, perhaps a large room, with a set of teleporters might be easier for truly new avatars ? Each teleporter for a different learning lesson. ?  Like 'Finding a home', 'Events for new folk' (motown), 'Customise your appearance' and 'Sandboxes and building in SL'. No ? ok.

"Holodeck"! Limited Rez view area for objects, etc.

[Persephone Emerald]

I've been to the new Welcome Hub a few times lately. For 3 out of 4 times there were at least 2 mentors. 2 out of 4 times Violet Mole was there too. One time there was no mentor, so I pushed the green button to call one, and a Mentor came to help the newbies.

Before the mentor came, I started talking with one newbie guy who was riding a horse, wearing one of the starter avatars that includes a horse. He rode off, but I IMed him when the mentor came. Then he came back and got help from her.

One time, a newbie had a group tag for a free pen!s and didn't know how to get rid of it. The mentor talked with her in voice and helped her remove it. I talked with her in text too. She sent me a friend invite and I friended her.

One time I was offering advice in text to one newbie while a mentor was doing the same. The mentor got upset that I was "talking over" him and sent me an IM telling me to stop talking over him and saying I could apply to be a mentor if I wanted to be one. I thought he was being rude to me, but I just replied back with a smile emoticon and stopped talking in text. Meanwhile the newbie I'd been talking to sent me a friend invite, and I accepted it.

Most of the time there are a couple to a few regular residents watching or talking with the newbies. A few of the "newbies" were apparently alts of older residents, based on their non-newbie avatars.

One time, one of the 3 or 4 mentors present was texting in local in Spanish and Portugues, trying to direct Spanish and Portuguese speaking newbies to help in their languages.

There were always some newbies just standing or hovering in the welcome area, apparently confused or trying to deal with some problem. Last time I was there, 2 of them were marked as afk.

The central region has always been full of green dots when I look at the map, but the regions surrounding are relatively empty.

[rasterscan]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

"Holodeck"! Limited Rez view area for objects, etc.

See a brand new player would likely think 'whats a holodeck' ?  That's why I think being a given a choice of teleports ( and little or nothing else ) would get them thinking and reading the teleport info, then making a choice, their first ever in sl, whilst instantly learning about teleporting by the experience of selecting one. But hey I'm no expert and hardly know what I'm on about, just thinking 'what would keep them here'

[Rowan Amore]

There's a bunch of people there now!

 

Road trip!

[Persephone Emerald]

4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

There's a bunch of people there now!

Road trip!

Whenever you're bored in SL, come check out the Welcome Hub. Watching newbies is more fun than standing alone in a skybox.

[rasterscan]

6 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

There's a bunch of people there now

Road trip!

We've popped in ... 25 avvies currently ! secondlife://WelcomeHub/130/86/25

Edited July 15, 2023 by rasterscan

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

2 hours ago, Randall Ahren said:

Boredom is a problem with all of SL, not just at Welcome Hubs. What is  entertaining about SL? Why should anyone bother logging in?

They could have included all kinds of activities to get new users interested, hunts, bowling, whack-a-mole (the game), roller skating, a shooting gallery, rides. Free, interactive stuff aside from gambling.

And before this post gets reported, because you know someone will, this isn't me hating on the work the moles have done, these are suggestions for the next iteration of the welcome hub. 

[rasterscan]

Quite enjoyed the visit and things seemed fairly active, engaged mentors and lots of avvies about the place. Nicely laid out too. So I guess sticking 'em in a box of teleporters may not have been my greatest idea 

"get new users interested, hunts, bowling, whack-a-mole (the game), roller skating, a shooting gallery, rides. Free, interactive stuff aside from gambling."  Good thinking Ingrid

Edited July 15, 2023 by rasterscan

[Persephone Emerald]

16 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

They could have included all kinds of activities to get new users interested, hunts, bowling, whack-a-mole (the game), roller skating, a shooting gallery, rides. Free, interactive stuff aside from gambling.

And before this post gets reported, because you know someone will, this isn't me hating on the work the moles have done, these are suggestions for the next iteration of the welcome hub. 

😆 Laughing, imagining that you think I might report this post.

There are some games in the Welcome Hub regions, but most of them either require multiple players or encourage gambling. I agree there should be some single player games. Something like the fairgrounds/ boardwalk games at Merrymount would be good. I think the Lazer Tag region should be used for hunting zombies instead. A snowy region with an ice-skating rink, sledding and skiing might be good.

Maybe have one region that changes with the seasons? Fair games in the summer. Zombies and horror in the fall. Winter amusements in the winter. What kind of interactive games would be good for spring, besides a Tunnel of Love?

Edited July 15, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Marigold Devin]

14 hours ago, animats said:

Watching the welcome hub this evening.

• About two new avatars show up each minute. This is at 2130 SLT.
• There are four avatars stuck at the landing point. I assume they are bots, especially the ones with names that end in large random numbers.
• I saw a new user experience their first region crossing fail, walking from WelcomeHub to the sandbox. They got stuck walking across the bridge. They're still stuck there, half an hour later.
• Someone else has been stuck in (Editing Appearance) for 15 minutes.
• I'm seeing enough stuck avatars that I think that, for some fraction of users, SL just doesn't work right. Some of the stuck ones are bots, but not all of them.
• One of the mentors is trying to get people to dance, without much success.
• This place is boring. Somehow, the first ten minutes in Second Life need to be made fun. Somehow.
• It's not at all obvious that there is more of SL than the welcome hub.

The mentors are trying, but the overall impression is of someone trying to get a really dull party going.

I popped in one day last week. There were two mentors there. One may have been in IM with someone. The other was speaking in open chat to one particular person who was having problems with very basic issues and not taking instruction well at all. I felt they were an alt taking the p1ss out of the mentor but the mentor was very patient.

There were about ten avatars there in total, two stuck as orange clouds that may or may not have been bots as they were the ones I saw on a list in another thread I think, and that was why I'd gone to take a look and a couple of newbies, one getting the help in open chat, the other I suspected was in IM with the other mentor. The others seemed to be oldbie spectators like myself.

I thought back to when I was a newbie, dumped at Korea3 region as my default home/login location. That seemed well-populated with lost souls like myself, but a lot of regular residents scooping us up and taking us off to different destinations, and apparently with good intentions, because us newbies kept meeting up there and showing each other the new places we'd been shown. 

We need to get that back somehow. Although I am sure it does still happen in some of the default home locations. Just no longer Korea3 which seems a dead hole most of the time.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Marigold Devin
wrong keyboard or wrong fingers today, mistyped

[animats]

6 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Question for you: Are you aware of - or did you create - a JIRA for the general issue of new Avatars getting "stuck"  in the Welcome Hub area? You had posted similar information about the issue before, but I am wondering if LL is actually aware of it.

Yes. JIRA closed: "Expected behavior".

(Some of this problem seems to be new bots run by bad control programs. Maybe all of it is. Hard to tell. Avatars in this stuck state do not reply to IMs. Bot operators: please get your act together. If you want to have a bot at your store or club, fine. But fix the bugs that cause bots to pile up at safe hubs and now the WelcomeHub. Thank you.)

[Randall Ahren]

3 hours ago, rasterscan said:

Perhaps there were conversations going on between mentors and newbies in IM chat, which would account for quiet local chat. ? Perhaps not, who knows.

There was what appeared to be a couple there. They were entertaining themselves by riding a motorcycle. They were probably conversing with one another in IM. Lindal Kidd was also there. Maybe she knows what was going on.