Apple Vision Plus and Second Life

[AmeliaJ08]

Apple tech journalism can be so difficult for people who aren't in the cult so to speak. "It's by far the best looking VR headset" yet nobody has used it.

It does seem neat but this is just a piece of plastic sitting on a stand and people gawking at it while a reporter reads out a release from Apple about theorised software applications that will run on it.

It's still a year from launch, I'd be surprised if this display model was working which is why this report is just a bunch of tracking shots, renders and hypothesising about its abilities.

I think when it comes to VR there's still an unavoidable and so-far unsolved problem: breaking the gimmick factor. People with VR hardware always seem to report declining usage and difficulties in accommodating it into their lives, certainly nobody wants to accommodate it into their everyday life beyond gaming (VRChat being the sole exception but quite niche). Quite how Apple achieve this I do not know, Google tried the AR concept with Google Glass and it was a market failure as well so I don't think anyone is going to really want to wander about wearing a pair of ski goggles just for AR features.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by AmeliaJ08

[Love Zhaoying]

After initial sales, you know Apple is going to have additional lower-price offerings with similar features. Example: lower resolution display.

[Sid Nagy]

Still, I think the majority of people ain't gonna move around like 'idiots' with these glasses on, same as with the other goggles.
Telephones will still ring, the dog will need immediate attention at times, there will be someone unexpected at the door, one has to pee, one is in need of a cup of coffee.
Goggles and those glasses make you somewhat handicapped in RL IMHO.

The big companies should have learned by now, goggles and glasses will only have very limited use in the gaming and other IT sections.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Sid Nagy said:

Still, I think the majority of people ain't gonna move around like 'idiots' with these glasses on, same as with the other goggles.

But, this product lets you see the outside world "through" them, unlike previous VR headsets.

So if you move like an idiot and can't see the Real World, you're not using the glasses right!

 

[Lyssa Greymoon]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

After initial sales, you know Apple is going to have additional lower-price offerings with similar features. Example: lower resolution display.

Or they'll dump remaining inventory into whatever landfill all the Newtons and Pippins are in.

[Katherine Heartsong]

16 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Holy f****in crap.  Wow.... just wow.

Though I have no doubt that there will be tons of people jumping to pay that price and be first on board to try it out.

Yikes.

This was the rumoured price suggested about six months ago. $3500 was bantied about quite a bit. I had no doubt it would be this high. Out of my league (though I happily pay $250 for a good baseball bat, so I'm not immune to buying seemingly high-priced stuff), but it will sell.

I do see several really interesting applications and use cases for the AR aspect of devices like these that augment your RL experiences, but have never figured out the need for gaming to be immersive in a VR way except in a few situations where you'd want to simulate something very expensive or dangerous like combat, flight sims, etc.

As @Sid Nagy points out, I don't have the luxury of completely tuning out RL while gaming.

Edited June 6, 2023 by Katherine Heartsong

[Bree Giffen]

 

[Drayke Newall]

Just announced... Also comes in a waterproof design with optional breathing accessory (which of course costs extra)

[Katherine Heartsong]

Note that the "eyes" you see when in AR mode are simply a video of the user's actual eyes, projected onto the surface. The unit is not "see through" from an outside viewers point of view. It's a feature Apple is calling EyeSight and it gives the impression you can see a wearer's eyes, when they are, in fact, being projected onto the device. The wearer can obviously see out in AR mode.

In VR mode the screen "fogs" indicating to someone looking at a wearer they are in fully immersed mode and can't see out.

[Love Zhaoying]

13 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

Note that the "eyes" you see when in AR mode are simply a video of the user's actual eyes, projected onto the surface. The unit is not "see through" from an outside viewers point of view. It's a feature Apple is calling EyeSight and it gives the impression you can see a wearer's eyes, when they are, in fact, being projected onto the device. The wearer can obviously see out in AR mode.

In VR mode the screen "fogs" indicating to someone looking at a wearer they are in fully immersed mode and can't see out.

Oh good, so they can't see the naughty stuff I'm doing or watching from the outside. Yay!

13 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

Note that the "eyes" you see when in AR mode are simply a video of the user's actual eyes, projected onto the surface.

I saw in the video though, that the projection of your eyes is "real time" (not a "recorded" video). Much cooler!

Edited June 6, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Bree Giffen]

One other thing I found funny was that they specifically mention eye tracking data is not sent to Apple or third parties. This Vision Pro has really good eye tracking and if you are looking at people through this it would know what part of that person you are constantly looking at. 

From the Apple website:

Where a user looks stays private while navigating Apple Vision Pro, and eye tracking information is not shared with Apple, third-party apps, or websites.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

35 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

One other thing I found funny was that they specifically mention eye tracking data is not sent to Apple or third parties. This Vision Pro has really good eye tracking and if you are looking at people through this it would know what part of that person you are constantly looking at. 

From the Apple website:

Where a user looks stays private while navigating Apple Vision Pro, and eye tracking information is not shared with Apple, third-party apps, or websites.

 

A victory for crotch, butt, and boob-watchers!

 

[Bree Giffen]

4 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

A victory for crotch, butt, and boob-watchers!

 

It would be like Second Life's 'Show Look At'. Where is that crosshair pointed at? 

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

It would be like Second Life's 'Show Look At'. Where is that crosshair pointed at? 

I wonder how quick they add an AR feature to "make other people more attractive". Like a normal app filter, but Apple AR quality.

[Evah Baxton]

Steve Jobs: "Who wants a stylus?"

Tim Cook: "Right! They want goggles strapped to their face and a battery pack on their waist!"

 

It will be interesting to see where this all goes.

 

 

[Randall Ahren]

On 6/5/2023 at 12:08 PM, diamond Marchant said:

update... will be available "Apple soon", which means early 2024... anticipated price is US$3,499.

That's reasonable for SL. A gaming rig with an RTX 4090 costs about that much. You need that super computing power in a busy sim to get all those flying body parts to rez into complete avatars.

[diamond Marchant]

9 hours ago, Evah Baxton said:

It will be interesting to see where this all goes.

Isn't  Apple Vision Plus the ultimate privacy screen? Perfect for frequent flyers or Starbuckers that want to view company confidential material free from onlookers? 😉

[Sid Nagy]

On 6/6/2023 at 2:32 PM, Love Zhaoying said:

But, this product lets you see the outside world "through" them, unlike previous VR headsets.

So if you move like an idiot and can't see the Real World, you're not using the glasses right!

 

Question is: Is one going to answer the door or work with them when others are around with these on?
I doubt it.

The dog tells the whole story in the video below IMHO. Even if the goggles are from Apple.

 

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

Well, the memes are fun.

 

 

[diamond Marchant]

This video Apple Vision Pro is very informative,

I now believe that Apple Vision Pro is a huge part of the future. The price is irrelevant. Let me explain.

What this device gives a human is the ability to go private while in public. And it provides hi-res video and audio. And freedom from a mouse and keyboard. All while remaining connected to real life.

This future will not be here for at least five years. Maybe longer. This is why the price of the initial offering is irrelevant. It will come down. And many won't care about the current price.

This is TRUE PERSONAL COMPUTING. Apple has renamed this SPACIAL COMPUTING.

Should Second Life actually deliver a mobile viewer, then we can expect it to run on an iPhone, which means it might run on an iPad, which means it will be available on AVP as that platform runs iPad apps,

I have zero confidence that Linden Lab will optimize the mobile viewer in any way for AVP, as they appear to be technology/staffing challenged.

However, my expectatiion that "The Valley Beyond" (Westworld reference, meaning the thing we all go to when SL dies) is in the AVP universe.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, diamond Marchant said:

This future will not be here for at least five years. Maybe longer.

The idea is doomed. This is not the future.

There is an expectation that this tech will get smaller and lighter .. and it can't by much.

Optics are always going to need a certain amount of space. There has to be a reasonable distance between the start of the optics and your eyes (or every blink will have an eye lash touching the glass), even more if glasses users are going to be included. Pack in all the sensors needed to do eye tracking and environment tracking (cameras, full on actual cameras with there own opticsand lights), the screens, processing for all this data and then power. The more field of view you want, the bigger it gets.

Maybe with lasers painting the picture directly on your retina would be a solution ..  how safe does that idea feel, even if you're assured its 100% safe.

 

Apple could have made their headset a lot lighter, but they opted for an outward facing second screen and then housed it all in metal like it was a computer. Both of those "innovations" will end up in the trash as people struggle to use the product for the duration of a movie.

Which brings me onto a primary use case ..  movie watching, not a new idea, there have been slim light dedicated headsets for video watching for decades, how many have you ever seen in use. Add in that the battery life is 2 hours .. which is less than a movie, because .. 

2 hours is probably about your max with this device on before you start to strain your neck. I wonder what RSI in your neck feels like .. 

 

Want more RSI .. what pose do your hands relax in .. I will bet it's finger and thumb touching or overlapping. What's the affirmative action gesture for this thing again .. that's right. A pinch. So you have to do the opposite of your natural rest pose. Constantly. 

If we're envisioned working in this, how does a cup of coffee  *clunk* ...

The demo video showed people walking about wearing it, you wont be able to see the floor without looking at your feet. How much will it hurt if you fall over wearing this. If you fall face down will the metal housing fracture your skull (a cheaper plastic device might take some of the hit for you).

 

What if you don't have good binocular vision (lazy eye, one eye), is the future not for you?

(really, this rules out the 3 people closest to me right off the bat)

 

 

[diamond Marchant]

46 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The idea is doomed. This is not the future

AVP is an early adopter transitional technology. It is a beginning, not an end. Early cellphones resembled WW2 walkie talkies and portable PCs (Compaq) were carry on luggage. At the time, both were considered desirable. 

I lack binocular fusion (congenital) but have adapted. 

Edited June 11, 2023 by diamond Marchant

[Love Zhaoying]

If Apple Vision Plus gave me a nice Second Life view using the new App, I may shell out the US$3500.

[gwynchisholm]

Lot of pessimistic views on new tech going on in here.

We won’t really know much about the use cases for augmented reality until there’s more augmented reality devices and software being used. 
I find the ability to measure things with my phone camera, view a model of furniture in my living room, or pull text and links from video in real time pretty interesting. A further exploration of the uses for AR will be interesting to see.

”why would I want to watch YouTube on my phone? that just seems like a worse way to watch YouTube” - me 15 years ago seeing I could browse the internet on my LG rumor sider phone 

 

 

[animats]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

There is an expectation that this tech will get smaller and lighter .. and it can't by much.

There are much lighter AR glasses. The field of view is smaller. But you can read your email.

These are just a display. No tracking. It's for people who spend all day looking at their phone.

I was expecting something more like this from Apple.