If everyone is happy, how can it be a bad thing?

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Today I found a parcel in search, 96 sq meters, for sale for $180 L. How did this parcel come into existance?

I'd guess a land baron was shedding the excess sq meters to create a tier level parcel, which he will sell at a profit to some willing buyer. He is happy, and the purchaser is happy.

I scooped the parcel up, protected roadfront at that price is a fantastic deal. I carved out the part I wanted, then relisted the remaining 80 sq m parcel (still roadside protected) for the selling price point of $500 L. It will sell to a willing buyer in a matter of weeks. They will be happy, I will be doubly happy, everyone involved in all these transactions will be happy.

So whats is the problem? Well it seems people not involved in any of these transactions believe none of this should be allowed. They want LL to ban subdivsion under a certain land size, they want to ban the sale or transfer of land under a certain size, they want to make it illegal to build on parcels under a certain size.

And no, I'm not breaking rules about subdividing land, I'm entitled to reduce the size of a parcel to meet my needs. Those rules refer to buying a parcel then dividing up the whole thing to resell. If there was anyone breaking that rule, it was the original land baron. who cut off the parcel i ended up buying.

It all boils down to people wanting LL to force everyone to live Second Life the way THEY think it should be lived.

My message to LL, please  ignore these complainers, Second Life works just fine the way it is.

Edited April 23, 2023 by BilliJo Aldrin
fixed two words

[Marigold Devin]

I wouldn't object at all to small mainland parcels not being so maligned if they were used for the greater good, such as offering a rezz zone for a vehicle (albeit they would need a short auto-return feature to stop the land from being abused), or a nice lemonade stand or little unexpected freebie. Sadly not everyone lives in my ideal green tree-hugging Enid Blyton world and all too often the smaller parcels have been turned into sites for ugly adverts.

But it sounds like you got a steal there with your reasonably priced small parcel. 

[Marianne Little]

What can such small parcels be used for? Only billboards. I am sure billboards has no effect on sales. Maybe ads for adult clubs can lure some customer in. Ugly ads. Usually full bright.

I think it is more than enough of them. But I don't want a ban on subdividing.

I wish LL could have more steps in the tier ladder. So people do not have to subdivide. I understand the need for it. They are a few sq m over one step, who will pay tier for up to next step, when they can cut off a minimal part and save a lot in tier. I would do the same. I would be forced to it, tier in SL is crazy expensive. I will not pay for it, if I have a parcel in an odd size.

What I wanted, is an addition to Old Mainland, new Mainland 2.0 with some rules. Fixed land for the different steps in tier that could not be subdivided, and some public land in between. Like Bellisseria without houses.

 

[Alwin Alcott]

2 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

My message to LL, please  ignore these complainers, Second Life works just fine the way it is.

i heared nobody complaining, you start about it again yourself. And if there is complaining .. there's not need at all to worry if you are in the lines of LL rules.


The problem with landcutting as you describe is that it doesn't make mainland a lot prettier.
 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Alwin Alcott

[beethros Karas]

This brought to my mind an hypothesis of how all started and there was the first law IRL!
 

when I enter to SL back in 2007, it was full of small and tiny parcels.
Thank pixel God, there arent so many out there anymore!
The reason I dont like them is because I cant rent out a roadside parcel, where in its front door exists a 16m or 64m parcel with an obelisk textured:... DONT BE A BAD NEIGHBOR on it... 
Or, worst, as mentioned above with shining/flashing/rotating Huge signs..
Well.. No, I dont like to have it in front of my door is what a tenant said and they had look elsewhere for to rent them land from!
 

From the other hand,
I - personaly -  do love freedom more than money!
So, tbh, I sympathise this post!
I have no idea if there are complains, I never send one..!
I sympathise it because as they say... they are withing TOS..! same as ban lines are and same as ugly walls unfortunately!
Aa about the walls... TBH.. I have to say that: . WHO is the one who will say if something is ugly and something else beautiful? It isnt fair if someone do it!
Yin Yang Rules the universe and so it makes beauty equal to uglyness!
 

With respect!

beethros Karas

Btw.. HOW we can explain to our neighbors that their walls are useless , since with a few clicks its gonne forever ? ( derender feature)



 

[Quistess Alpha]

4 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

What I wanted, is an addition to Old Mainland, new Mainland 2.0 with some rules. Fixed land for the different steps in tier that could not be subdivided, and some public land in between. Like Bellisseria without houses.

There are some places on mainland where subdivision has been disabled entirely, (Bay City, Horizons, Nautilus, north east west Zindra, I think there's also a city on the old teen grid) They do generally look a bit nicer than most mainland, but part of that is just because they're so expensive to get into. Making your parcel not look bad isn't easy on the wallet or the clock.

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Quistess Alpha
can't tell my easts from wests or lefts from lefts :P

[Sparkle Bunny]

5 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Well it seems people not involved in any of these transactions believe none of this should be allowed.

Just speculating here, but maybe people aren't hugely fond of ugly ads/obelisks/random junk?

[BilliJo Aldrin]

4 hours ago, Marigold Devin said:

I wouldn't object at all to small mainland parcels not being so maligned if they were used for the greater good, such as offering a rezz zone for a vehicle (albeit they would need a short auto-return feature to stop the land from being abused), or a nice lemonade stand or little unexpected freebie. Sadly not everyone lives in my ideal green tree-hugging Enid Blyton world and all too often the smaller parcels have been turned into sites for ugly adverts.

But it sounds like you got a steal there with your reasonably priced small parcel. 

I can't speak for other advertisers, but i think my ad parcels are tasteful and kind of artistic, and most important, they comply with all the rules😁

[BilliJo Aldrin]

3 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

i heared nobody complaining, you start about it again yourself. And if there is complaining .. there's not need at all to worry if you are in the lines of LL rules.


The problem with landcutting as you describe is that it doesn't make mainland a lot prettier.
 

Actually, I started this thread to address several points the regulars in here have brought up over and over. I used my particular situation to illustrate the folly of their arguments

By the way, large swathes of mainland can be described as many things, but pretty isn't one of them. Ugly doesn't really depend on size

[Alwin Alcott]

23 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Actually, I started this thread to address several points the regulars in here have brought up over and over. I used my particular situation to illustrate the folly of their arguments

This subject is brought up uncountable times on the forums during the years, and because you are in the cutting business and asking absurd prices for the tiny remains... yes that makes people dislike even more what you do. 
You dont have me with such business, but don't come complain when you'r part of the problem.
 

[Rowan Amore]

We all know what some land owners do with tiny parcels among larger parcel that are owned or for sale.  Rules are in place because some people can't play nice.  Whether you do or not is irrelevant when others don't.  Rules and laws are always put in place because people abuse the system. 

[Rufferta]

(Business names scribbled over)

View from a Meditation Temple in Celchu. One ad structure is on a 16sqm parcel, the other on an 80sqm parcel. ( The green bars are on a 928 sim parcel for rent.). I don't believe the Lindens care about the Mainland any more. The only thing that folks who do love the Mainland can do is vote with their wallet - don't buy or rent from a business that makes the land or map views ugly.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Rufferta

[Coffee Pancake]

Ahh 16sqm advertising parcels .. a curse upon mainland, slowly getting carved up into smaller and smaller plots to host spam, trackers, and other BS that the "happy advertiser" will then use to force people to "buy the view".

Everyone is not happy. Everyone has been very unhappy with this practice for a very long time.

Burn this blight from the grid.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Coffee Pancake

[Love Zhaoying]

[animats]

A good start would be to round up tier for tiny parcels to the tier for 256 m^2. That would make ad parcels not cost-effective.

[Quistess Alpha]

21 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Ahh 16sqm advertising parcels .. a curse upon mainland, slowly getting carved up into smaller and smaller plots to host spam, trackers, and other BS that the "happy advertiser" will then use to force people to "buy the view".

Everyone is not happy. Everyone has been very unhappy with this practice for a very long time.

Burn this blight from the grid.

"Technically" you can pray to the linden tree and hope LL will feel like getting involved, since:

Quote

[https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Mainland_policies]

[Linden lab may if it feels like it, but probably won't] Make changes in the parceling of land, including make available or release more land, enforce minimum parcel sizes, resell or otherwise alter abandoned parcels, and create or revise rules and policies on connecting or dividing regions or parcels of land;

In general residents are welcome to subdivide larger parcels of land that they occupy into smaller parcels. Subdivision is considered "land cutting" when a resident extensively subdivides land into smaller parcels for the purpose of further "renting" or "selling" those parcels — and it is not allowed. Other prohibited land cutting includes subdividing land in a manner that decreases the ability of other residents to enjoy their land, collaborate and/or exercise land-management controls, or in a way that constitutes harassment of another resident. Linden reserves the right to make parcel alternations as necessary to ensure residents’ enjoyment of Second Life. We want to keep Second Life beautiful too.

We therefore may, in our sole discretion, move any parcel of land that is smaller than or equal to 128 sqm where such land is interfering with the enjoyment of a significantly larger parcel of land or region.

Quote

[https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Policy_on_ad_farms_and_network_advertisers]

Using content, particularly advertising, to deliberately and negatively affect another Resident's view so as to sell a parcel for an unreasonable price, is deemed unacceptable and shall be dealt with as a violation of the Community Standards.

Anything that could move parts of that to 'enforcement by design' rather than 'enforcement by complaint' would probably do everyone good though.

[Love Zhaoying]

"But I only wanted a parcel big enough to fly a confederate flag!"

[Qie Niangao]

4 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Ugly doesn't really depend on size

Indeed, a tiny plot can be every bit as ugly as a huge one, yet involves almost no tier investment.

Asymmetric moral hazard.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

From the wiki:

Using content, particularly advertising, to deliberately and negatively affect another Resident's view so as to sell a parcel for an unreasonable price, is deemed unacceptable and shall be dealt with as a violation of the Community Standards.

-----------

For the record, I don't have ad parcels to force people to "buy the view". My ad parcels are not for sale. If at any time I chose to sell one, I remove the advertising and sell it empty. My standard price for a 2x protected 16 sq m parcel is $500 L, and it always sells within a week or so.

Unfortunately, the person buying it usually DOES put a big ugly sign on it, AND sets it for sale for a far higher price.

But that's really not my problem is it?

But then again, you can report the new owner for violating the rules.

[Aethelwine]

16 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

From the wiki:

Using content, particularly advertising, to deliberately and negatively affect another Resident's view so as to sell a parcel for an unreasonable price, is deemed unacceptable and shall be dealt with as a violation of the Community Standards.

-----------

For the record, I don't have ad parcels to force people to "buy the view". My ad parcels are not for sale. If at any time I chose to sell one, I remove the advertising and sell it empty. My standard price for a 2x protected 16 sq m parcel is $500 L, and it always sells within a week or so.

Unfortunately, the person buying it usually DOES put a big ugly sign on it, AND sets it for sale for a far higher price.

But that's really not my problem is it?

But then again, you can report the new owner for violating the rules.

The guilt you feel for your actions is really something between you and your conscience.

But in relation to this thread the circumstance you describe is rather different from the "everyone is happy" by the arrangement hypothesis laid out in the original post. The argument made fails because the premise is false.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Aethelwine

[Marianne Little]

Sellers and buyers are happy.

The rest....

[Marianne Little]

14 hours ago, Quistess Alpha said:

There are some places on mainland where subdivision has been disabled entirely, (Bay City, Horizons, Nautilus, north east west Zindra, I think there's also a city on the old teen grid) They do generally look a bit nicer than most mainland, but part of that is just because they're so expensive to get into. Making your parcel not look bad isn't easy on the wallet or the clock.

 

Yep, I have rented there.

I would like more SL to be like that. I do not understand why LL don't make more. The price stop me from buying, but if it was more land like this, the price would be lower?

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

Sellers and buyers are happy.

The rest....

The sellers and buyers are all that matter really. We hear endless complaints about how someone bought a parcel beside their pretty house and put up a monstrosity. That is the good and bad of mainland.

But as long as the rules are being followed, one just has to accept it.

Bellesaria is always there for people that crave conformity and strict rules.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

Yep, I have rented there.

I would like more SL to be like that. I do not understand why LL don't make more. The price stop me from buying, but if it was more land like this, the price would be lower?

The prices probably wouldn't be lower, generally, land barons control the prices. If someone was selling cheap, a land baron would scoop it up.

Actually, why not disable land cutting on all the mainland sims? If you want to subdivide, you put in a support ticket making your request.

That would solve the problem of new micro parcels once and for all.

My main parcel is in Kama city, land cutting is allowed, but it doesn't happen, because the land there is too valuable to be cut into tiny pieces.

[Marianne Little]

41 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

The sellers and buyers are all that matter really. We hear endless complaints about how someone bought a parcel beside their pretty house and put up a monstrosity. That is the good and bad of mainland.

But as long as the rules are being followed, one just has to accept it.

Bellesaria is always there for people that crave conformity and strict rules.

Sellers and buyer is all that matter, you sum it up pretty well. It is no need to make a community or think about other persons.

But I do not think it is your fault, that Mainland is as it is. LL gave selfish people a free playground. People can put up as ugly things as ad boards on big plots, but that cost them a lot more money, and hopefully they pack up and leave, when they can't afford it.

ONLY LL is to blame for their tier model.

I would look at my finances and see that I pay tier for 4096 m, and I have only 2100 m.

I am as selfish as you, I would sell those 52 m and reduce my tier with 9 US/month, 108 US a year. And I know an @ss will set up a full bright sign there. "Tasteful".

I can cut off the land that's as far off from the road as possible. And abandon it. Less risk that it is bought up.

I can not protect myself and others view for a lot of money. This was just an example, it is bigger and worse jumps in tier.

That is what derender is for. It looks ugly for all that passes by, but I save money. I am not happy that it is as it is, but we can't change peoples nature. I just forget the crap is there.

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Marianne Little