Infrastructure Investment Update: Buy/Sell Fee Change and Land Pricing Effective Mar 6, 2023 DISCUSSION

[steeljane42]

2 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

Yeah.... this is going to slow things right down. Once people realize that they're paying 1.49 USD at minimum per $L purchase (which works out to over 2 bucks canadian and more elsewhere) it's going to really limit people's buys. Not necessarily for people who buy a bunch of $L all in one shot but for those who make frequent little impulse buys here and there like myself. It's a habit i will be breaking.

1.49$ being a minimum fee is a thing since April of 2021. People probably realized by now.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

8 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

1.49$ being a minimum fee is a thing since April of 2021. People probably realized by now.

I actually didn't. 

 

 

[Love Zhaoying]

Idea: Instead of raising fees, LL could have a Mole as an "organ grinder" and Patch as a "dancing monkey" with a tin cup raising money around Belli.  

According to the Forums, the average Belli resident has 3.6 Premium accounts.  Since they are benefitting the most from all this LL home development, they should pay the brunt.

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[LittleMe Jewell]

Buy fee increases, since early 2016:

4/5/2016 - L$ buy fee increases from $0.30 per transaction to $0.40 per transaction
6/19/2017 - L$ buy fee increases from $0.40 per transaction to $0.60 per transaction
1/3/2018 - L$ buy fee increases from $0.60 per transaction to $0.99 per transaction
7/2/2018 - L$ buy fee increases from $0.99 per transaction to $1.49 per transaction
4/22/2021 - L$ buy fee changes to 7.5% with minimum of $1.49 & maximum of $9.99
3/6/2023 - L$ buy fee increases to 10% with minimum of $1.49 & maximum of $14.99

So the $1.49 has actually been there since July 2018

Edited March 20, 2023 by LittleMe Jewell

[Arielle Popstar]

17 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Buy fee increases, since early 2016:

4/5/2016 - L$ buy fee increases from $0.30 per transaction to $0.40 per transaction
6/19/2017 - L$ buy fee increases from $0.40 per transaction to $0.60 per transaction
1/3/2018 - L$ buy fee increases from $0.60 per transaction to $0.99 per transaction
7/2/2018 - L$ buy fee increases from $0.99 per transaction to $1.49 per transaction
4/22/2021 - L$ buy fee changes to 7.5% with minimum of $1.49 & maximum of $9.99
3/6/2023 - L$ buy fee increases to 10% with minimum of $1.49 & maximum of $14.99

So the $1.49 has actually been there since July 2018

But for the majority of L$ purchases, you get a lot less for that. Keep the price of cheese the same but progressively drop the amount you get. Just a tricky way of fooling some people into thinking that the price hasn't increased.

[Rowan Amore]

Sort of like everything else in the world?  That 1 pound of coffee, although in the same container, is no longer 1 pound.  5 pounds of sugar?  Nope, it's 4 pounds at the same price.

[Love Zhaoying]

10 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Sort of like everything else in the world?  That 1 pound of coffee, although in the same container, is no longer 1 pound.  5 pounds of sugar?  Nope, it's 4 pounds at the same price.

..is "diet coffee" and "diet sugar". Same price, but you get to diet!

In particular, I recall this being first publicized with breakfast cereals and other food products that came in "boxes".

[Arielle Popstar]

I'm very happy that neither cheese nor coffee has increased 5 fold for a small amount and 50 fold for larger amounts since 2016.

[Sorciaa]

31 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Sort of like everything else in the world?  That 1 pound of coffee, although in the same container, is no longer 1 pound.  5 pounds of sugar?  Nope, it's 4 pounds at the same price.

Shrinkflation

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I'm very happy that neither cheese nor coffee has increased 5 fold for a small amount and 50 fold for larger amounts since 2016.

I live in a state where the sales tax went from 4% to 6%. Did that mean that "everything cost 50% more" after that? Because that's what your saying.

Oh, and I remember how everyone was scrambling to buy cars and things at the lower sales tax rate before it went up. Because no auto dealer would dare, say, make their "best deals" more than 2% higher in a time of high demand, now would they?

Edited March 21, 2023 by Theresa Tennyson

[Rowan Amore]

Coffee prices, per unit have gone up 43% in the last ten years.  

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

I live in a state where the sales tax went from 4% to 6%. Did that mean that "everything cost 50% more" after that? Because that's what your saying.

Oh, and I remember how everyone was scrambling to buy cars and things at the lower sales tax rate before it went up. Because no auto dealer would dare, say, make their "best deals" more than 2% higher in a time of high demand, now would they?

For Tila the service fee is the  cost to purchase L$ so the "product" it provides. That fee or product has gone from .30 cents to $14.99 per transaction. A 50 fold increase. The rest is hair splitting. That doesn't include some of the substantial increases in the exchange rates that Canada, UK, Europe and some other countries where a lot of residents are from, has increased dramatically. So as an example where I used to pay $1 Can for 250 L it will now cost me about $1.70 for the same amount. For those who been hit with Vat on top of all that, it is probably an even higher increase. Those increases are outside of S/L's control but they are nonetheless a factor in continuing to purchase L$.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Arielle Popstar
fix wording

[Sid Nagy]

@Rowan Amore Still, it is no fun to get less L$ for your USD, wether the increase in fees is justified or not.

And @Theresa Tennyson if sales taxes go up from 4 to 6%, then you pay 50% more sales taxes.
Nobody is suggesting that prices have gone up 50%, but the fees are increasing pretty steep here in SL. Just like your sales taxes.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Istelathis]

We are getting more for those expenses as well though, newer features are being added to our viewers, we have a very impressive mobile viewer in the works, in the time span that the prices have increased we have also seen an increase in Li allowance in our parcels, as land itself becomes cheaper.  We even have Bellisseria which has increased the overall land mass in SL substantially.  Not to mention, shifting all of our regions to Amazon.  All of this while the world is experiencing outlandish inflation.

$14.99 USD for a large transaction is quite the shift in expenses, but it is not as though we are not getting anything in exchange for it.  For the vast majority of us, who are not creators or regularly spend over $150 USD in one go the increase in not 50 fold.  

Hopefully 🤞along with all of the features being added to SL, including the mobile viewer, more people will join SL and those expenses that creators are feeling right now will not make a difference as more people join, and they have a much larger consumer base.

Expansion and improvements to SL come at a price increase, the raise in salary to maintain employees due to inflation also does. If we want a better SL, it costs money to provide it, I imagine more so now than ever before.

Personally, the expense for me remains about the same to purchase Linden as it has since I started around 2018 as I rarely make more than a $10 purchase on $L so I do not see such large purchases in the firs place.  For myself, outside of the increase in premium, SL is the one thing that has remained the same expense throughout my time here.  In some ways, it could be cheaper if I wanted more than the allocated 1024 m^2 that premium provides and purchased more land.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Istelathis

[Rowan Amore]

34 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

@Rowan Amore Still, it is no fun to get less L$ for your USD, wether the increase in fees is justified or not.

And @Theresa Tennyson if sales taxes go up from 4 to 6%, then you pay 50% more sales taxes.
Nobody is suggesting that prices have gone up 50%, but the fees are increasing pretty steep here in SL. Just like your sales taxes.

Well no one said it was fun!  I don't like paying more for less anywhere be it online or at the grocery store.  It's just a fact of life.  My issue is...SL is and always will be a luxury item and not a necessity.  Most, if not all, of my grocery purchases are necessities so I can't do much about that spending.  I can in SL.  

How many people have eaten meals out less, gone to the movies less, purchased none essential items less?  We all make decisions on our spending.  SL will just be another choice some people may have to make.

 

[Sid Nagy]

20 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Well no one said it was fun!  I don't like paying more for less anywhere be it online or at the grocery store.  It's just a fact of life.  My issue is...SL is and always will be a luxury item and not a necessity.  Most, if not all, of my grocery purchases are necessities so I can't do much about that spending.  I can in SL.  

How many people have eaten meals out less, gone to the movies less, purchased none essential items less?  We all make decisions on our spending.  SL will just be another choice some people may have to make.

 

All true and I spend less on SL as well.
And yes, in the end it is a take it or leave it deal. Nothing to discuss about that.

But still, the price increase in fees is way above average steep the last years.
It feels like we are the milk cows again, without any real benefits for SL.
Last time we payed up for Sansar's development disaster and now for Tilia's balance to show growth to investors, while it isn't taking off anywhere, it is just squeezing out SL a bit further.
 

[Theresa Tennyson]

4 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

For Tila the service fee is the  cost to purchase L$ so the "product" it provides. That fee or product has gone from .30 cents to $14.99 per transaction OF $149.00 OR MORE.

FIFY

For someone paying $14.50 or less per transaction, it hasn't changed since 2018. Meanwhile, land costs have been reduced several times.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Theresa Tennyson

[Solar Legion]

58 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

FIFY

For someone paying $14.50 or less per transaction, it hasn't changed since 2018. Meanwhile, land costs have been reduced several times.

Ah yep! I'll go one further and state that if you are capable of spending that much on a L$ buy that you hit the cap ... you've little room to complain so far as I am concerned.

[Arielle Popstar]

15 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

FIFY

For someone paying $14.50 or less per transaction, it hasn't changed since 2018. Meanwhile, land costs have been reduced several times.

Not sure what math you are using but 2018 started at .60 per transaction and then went to a 1.49 per transaction, not a percentage according to the table @LittleMe Jewell posted above.

Land prices dropping have no effect on me and to how I see it, is still way overpriced for what is costs S/L to run the servers for it. Arguably it is the monies S/L mostly survives on but if the latest 2.5% increase in fees replaces the drop of $20 per region as you seem to be hinting at, do you think each 2.5% increase in user fees would translate to further $20 reductions in land costs? So as an example, could a further increase of 25% user fees result in land costs of $20 per region and if so, would you be happy with that?

 

14 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

Ah yep! I'll go one further and state that if you are capable of spending that much on a L$ buy that you hit the cap ... you've little room to complain so far as I am concerned.

Buying volume usually results in a saving per unit cost so when someone gives up living paycheque to paycheque and starts to budget to take advantage of such, it stretches one's purchasing power. It doesn't translate into one being any better off than the one making small L$ purchases per week. Just means for me that the amount I buy in bulk, has to last me a year or more.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Arielle Popstar
symbols

[Solar Legion]

If you're capable of buying a hundred dollars or more of L$ at a time you are not living paycheck to paycheck.

If you're doing that while having actual money concerns, it is well beyond time to examine your spending habits and consider not spending a hundred dollars (or more) a pop on such things.

If you're not going to examine your habits or going to come up with some other excuse to list off ... Don't bother. If you're pulling in enough that dropping a hundred or more into a Linden Dollar balance is something you can do from month to month you are frankly much better off than you realize you are.

Boy oh boy do I wish i could afford to toss that much at my Linden Dollar balance on a monthly basis ...

[Love Zhaoying]

Perhaps, some complaints are from people who "feel" they are affected, even if they never buy anywhere near the L$ "limit".

Similar to those who may complain "the bank only insures my deposits to US$250K" but they have $5 on deposit.

Or as always, people just love to complain.

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Love Zhaoying

[Arielle Popstar]

4 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

If you're capable of buying a hundred dollars or more of L$ at a time you are not living paycheck to paycheck.

If you're doing that while having actual money concerns, it is well beyond time to examine your spending habits and consider not spending a hundred dollars (or more) a pop on such things.

If you're not going to examine your habits or going to come up with some other excuse to list off ... Don't bother. If you're pulling in enough that dropping a hundred or more into a Linden Dollar balance is something you can do from month to month you are frankly much better off than you realize you are.

Boy oh boy do I wish i could afford to toss that much at my Linden Dollar balance on a monthly basis ...

What are you on about? Read what I wrote and spare me the typically knee jerk interpretation you mostly come up with.

[Solar Legion]

You assume I did not read what you posted - I read it.

It changes nothing outside of your making an assumption concerning those who make smaller purchases.

Once more - when you're budgeting on less than US Federal Minimum Wage per month, come back to complain about the fee increase.

Until then, there's nothing you can say that isn't an excuse or that I really want (or care to) listen to on the matter.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Solar Legion

[Theresa Tennyson]

42 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Not sure what math you are using but 2018 started at .60 per transaction and then went to a 1.49 per transaction, not a percentage according to the table @LittleMe Jewell posted above.

$1.49 is more than 10% of $14.50, and also the minimum transaction fee as of mid 2018. Therefore, each purchase of $14.50 or less would always have a transaction fee of $1.49 since 2018, regardless of the percentage up to and including the current rapacious 10%. 

Percentages? Hmmm.... sixth grade math?

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

You assume I did not read what you posted - I read it.

It changes nothing outside of your making an assumption concerning those who make smaller purchases.

Once more - when you're budgeting on less than US Federal Minimum Wage per month, come back to complain about the fee increase.

Until then, there's nothing you can say that isn't an excuse or that I really want (or care to) listen to on the matter.

If you had read what I wrote you would have seen I buy once in a year if not longer. "Just means for me that the amount I buy in bulk, has to last me a year or more."

Not month to month. Same as buying Premium is cheaper when buying a year at a time. Some of us can't afford to buy month to month or little bits of L$ at a time. 

Maybe that is where reading comprehension and math skills come in handy.