Infrastructure Investment Update: Buy/Sell Fee Change and Land Pricing Effective Mar 6, 2023 DISCUSSION

[Arielle Popstar]

14 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

oh please ... if you really want SL is totally free to play. Every expense is a choice.

Yes it is and therefore  I look at the value added from the lab to see whether new features justify the increase. Although the Mobile viewer is certainly one I have and am interested in, it is not available yet and won't be for a while. Here and now, I see nothing of value that warrants the increased pricing. 

The only thing the Lab has brought in that is costing substantial monies is Tila and that I don't see as benefitting residents.

[Alwin Alcott]

6 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I see nothing of value that warrants the increased pricing. 

that is never a requirement for raising fees ... rising Costs is the most normal reason.

You also go to your supermarket asking what the added value is for your shopping when the oranges change in price?

[Arielle Popstar]

13 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

that is never a requirement for raising fees ... rising Costs is the most normal reason.

You also go to your supermarket asking what the added value is for your shopping when the oranges change in price?

You bet we do. Loblaws a large Canadian grocery firm is being dragged through the mud of public opinion and parliament because of their hefty increases and resulting corporate year end profits.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/galen-weston-jagmeet-singh-parliament-wherry-1.6775224

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/grocery-ceo-ottawa-1.6771887

Edited March 12, 2023 by Arielle Popstar
added parliament

[Randall Ahren]

10 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

You also go to your supermarket asking what the added value is for your shopping when the oranges change in price?

No, but if the supermarket across the street hasn't raised the prices for oranges, I start buying oranges at the supermarket with lower price. What other free games have raised their prices so dramatically?

Edited March 12, 2023 by Randall Ahren

[Sid Nagy]

4 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

that is never a requirement for raising fees ... rising Costs is the most normal reason.

You also go to your supermarket asking what the added value is for your shopping when the oranges change in price?

An about 10% raise of fees should cover inflation, the rest of this raise must have other reasons.
I personally think that it is mostly to make Tilia's books look good, that seems not to take off outside of SL.
All the raises come from that side of the company.
 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Sid Nagy
Improvements of the text. I blame my English again.

[Rowan Amore]

2 hours ago, Randall Ahren said:

No, but if the supermarket across the street hasn't raised the prices for oranges, I start buying oranges at the supermarket with lower price. What other free games have raised their prices so dramatically?

What other free games are exactly like SL?  Comparing oranges to oranges makes sense.  Cars and oranges, not so much.  As @Alwin Alcottsaid, if LL sees a dramatic exodus of residents, they may rethink but somehow, I doubt they'll see.that.

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

What other free games are exactly like SL?  Comparing oranges to oranges makes sense.  Cars and oranges, not so much.  As @Alwin Alcottsaid, if LL sees a dramatic exodus of residents, they may rethink but somehow, I doubt they'll see.that.

Well you know there is a free game exactly like SL. The only difference between them is what the residents themselves bring to each. What S/L supplies when purchasing a region is the exact same thing that is rolled out for free elsewhere, an empty 256x256 green field. From there on, it is all up to the resident(s).

[Rowan Amore]

7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Well you know there is a free game exactly like SL. The only difference between them is what the residents themselves bring to each. What S/L supplies when purchasing a region is the exact same thing that is rolled out for free elsewhere, an empty 256x256 green field. From there on, it is all up to the resident(s).

So, why are so few people there, I wonder.

[Arielle Popstar]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

So, why are so few people there, I wonder.

It is not that there is so few people Rowan, it is that newcomers don't know how to find them, very much like the new people coming to S/L and posting threads in the People segment of this Forum about how to find friends and what is there to do in S/L.

[Sid Nagy]

5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

So, why are so few people there, I wonder.

I think that you know the answers.

[Rowan Amore]

36 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

I think that you know the answers.

No, I actually don't.  There are a few other forumites who mention spending time there yet the vast majority of people who DO know about it, don't bother.  Why?

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

No, I actually don't.  There are a few other forumites who mention spending time there yet the vast majority of people who DO know about it, don't bother.  Why?

I read it has a lot of drawbacks - compared to Second Life. Therefore, it is not "exactly like Second Life" as the earlier poster stated so glibly. Assuming we are talking about Sansar.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Love Zhaoying
"A lot of", not "all". Proofreading fail

[Istelathis]

48 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

It is not that there is so few people Rowan, it is that newcomers don't know how to find them, very much like the new people coming to S/L and posting threads in the People segment of this Forum about how to find friends and what is there to do in S/L.

A lot of it might also be that people are spread out across OS due to just how inexpensive it is to own land.  I see events posted often, know of groups that have gatherings, it can be a lively place but with so many regions most of the time people are going to be vacant from them.  I can wander around for hours, without seeing other people in OS, or if I really wanted to I could go to events and be among others.

Whereas in SL, land is expensive, events are often hosted by the fewer people who are able to afford entire regions, and it appears to be more lively whilst one is strolling through the world.  It is much easier to find them, for sure, one just needs to hop into a car and drive around until they come across a region with a ton of green dots.  Alternatively, because there is a central currency in SL it is easy to find others playing games for linden which I have never found in OS as it just doesn't seem to have that kind of demand.

But imagine if the people in SL had the same access to regions they do in OS, I would imagine that a lot of people would be spread throughout the world, that events would be the same, it would more or less be a frontier world of private regions spread throughout the grid that would require more navigation to encounter groups of civilization 🤣

Edited March 13, 2023 by Istelathis

[Love Zhaoying]

OS = OS Grid? 

[Ceka Cianci]

Is OS even a grid? I thought you had to run your own space and invite people to it..

Can you teleport around from sim to sim? I tried to try it one time years ago, but couldn't get it to work..

 

[Istelathis]

18 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Is OS even a grid? I thought you had to run your own space and invite people to it..

Can you teleport around from sim to sim? I tried to try it one time years ago, but couldn't get it to work..

 

There are larger grids out there, like OSGrid, Kitely, and a few others, people can also host their own grids.  A lot of grids are navigable through something called the hypergrid, which allows an avatar to hop from one grid to another.  

Sorry for derailing thread everyone.

/me hangs head in shame.

[Chic Aeon]

15 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Is OS even a grid? I thought you had to run your own space and invite people to it..

Can you teleport around from sim to sim? I tried to try it one time years ago, but couldn't get it to work..

 

Opensim is a generic term for a collection of platforms running the software. Many are hosted on people's computers but there are several large and long-standing platforms that "rent" out regions.  Kitely is one of the main ones and hosts the marketplace for all of Opensim.   In Kitely a standard region like we have in SL is $15 US a month. Four regions are $19.95.

So this works for SOME folks.  

The DOWNSIDE is that there is very little good content there. So it is best if you are a creator. The downside for creators is that if you sell to other grids or VISIT other grids (it gets complex here so I'll skip it) you run the risk of having your work stolen. 

If you can make everything you need (and I have done that) then it works. If not it is a bit like going back in time in SL 10 years or so. Of if you don't mind using stollen goods you can do that LOL.

 

That is the simplistic version. And you you can OFTEN move between platforms and grids but the server needs to be up and you need to have the "address" to get there.   

Hope that helps some. 

[Ceka Cianci]

11 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

There are larger grids out there, like OSGrid, Kitely, and a few others, people can also host their own grids.  A lot of grids are navigable through something called the hypergrid, which allows an avatar to hop from one grid to another.  

Sorry for derailing thread everyone.

/me hangs head in shame.

Ya, I barely remember when I tried to get it going and forget what it was like at the time. I could swear someone said I had to host it myself.. this might have been like 2007 maybe, so it was a long time ago.. hehehe

[ItHadToComeToThis]

Tbh, I see a lot of people in this thread complaining about the fee increases but here is the question...

How else could LL lower land prices and continue making a profit when the costs of things just keep going up? Personally id rather not see in world advertising xD. "Raid shadow legends" before you enter a sim.

SL might be our world but its a business first and foremost with overheads, staff and other costs.

The more they lower land prices the more the have to increase elsewhere to make up the difference.

I still can't afford to own a full sim tbh as it's still a lot of money. I really want them to re work the concept of sims a little and create an in-between sim of say.....35 avatars, 10k prims and then if they really want to be dickish about it, make it a PP only thing.

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

No, I actually don't.  There are a few other forumites who mention spending time there yet the vast majority of people who DO know about it, don't bother.  Why?

Multiple reasons why not. Many are simply not interested in land or even a plot to call home. It amazes me how many in S/L log in, jump to their favourite club and then log out. If they need a bed for nookie, they have a list of places where they can use one or ask the other. They are simply in S/L for the clubs and potential slex and nothing else. Then there are those with investments in S/L that they need to take care of like creators, club owners,  landlords, etc. Quite a few are uncomfortable with the lack of an economy at most OS Grids as their main entertainment is the inworld business they have. There are the fashionestas that need a constant supply of sales, events and new clothing, bodies and heads to feed their addiction to such. OS has a lot more then some are letting on here but yes still, there is always a better selection here. Overall it is busier and faster paced in S/L with groups going non stop whereas in OS those are typically fairly quiet leading many new people to think there is noone around so they head back to S/L.

And lastly the biggest reason comes down to not wanting to start fresh in a new world when one already has a full inventory, a long list of friends they barely talk to and a few clubs one sort of likes.

[Love Zhaoying]

Ok, so it's THAT "os" (or one of the os-something's).

The difference would appear to be obvious: they will not be as populated as SL, have the ongoing new features of SL, etc. You get what you pay for, or go where it's free and be happy (or complain anyway).

[Theresa Tennyson]

18 hours ago, Randall Ahren said:

What other free games have raised their prices so dramatically?

Mought want to re-read what you wrote there...

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

18 hours ago, Randall Ahren said:

What other free games have raised their prices so dramatically?

Mought want to re-read what you wrote there...

Good catch!

[Paul Hexem]

13 hours ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

How else could LL lower land prices and continue making a profit when the costs of things just keep going up?

This was asked and answered a long time ago.

There are plenty of fees LL could add that people would want to pay.

It's just proof of the complete disconnect between how SL is used and the people that are making the decisions around here.

[Love Zhaoying]

14 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

There are plenty of fees LL could add that people would want to pay.

It's just proof of the complete disconnect between how SL is used and the people that are making the decisions around here.

Sometimes you wonder if LL is just really, really, bad at Polling / Focus groups. 

It's not like they don't have plenty of users to ask.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Love Zhaoying
"at", not "a"