A clean break and a rebranding for Linden Lab?

[Bree Giffen]

What if LL made a completely new client and server with a small continent, new avatars, a new prim building system, new engine and physics, but kept the exact same SL style where the residents make everything. Then they named it a completely new name like 'whatever life'. If you logged into it you'd feel right at home in the virtual world but it would be all shiny and new.  This would not be like Sansar which was made very differently from SL. It would be  hard reset and a starting point but SL would still exist as well. Do you think this would make people think about joining because it is simply not SL with all it's baggage? Maybe new creators would come in knowing they don't have to compete with the established ones. LL would also be able to regain it's control over the base avatars and not be dependent on resident made avatars. This wouldn't destroy SL. It would be like taking a seed from a plant and making a whole new plant. 

[panterapolnocy]

The strength of SL is the user generated content plus users themselves. Sansar failed, mostly, for a reason - and despite better tech.

Edited August 2, 2022 by panterapolnocy

[Coffee Pancake]

Sansar 2.0 electric boogaloo

It would be the same LL mistake, seeing a virtual world as a collection of systems and outcomes rather than people.

Systems are important to attract people, but they do not make a community by themselves.

Outcomes matter as a means to social ends, if there are no social end, the outcome fails to solidify. 

[Lindal Kidd]

Right after that happens, the flow chart inserts a decision fork: "Is Whatever Life successful, Y/N?"

If no, the flow chart ends with "Delete Whatever Life".

If yes, the flow chart goes to "Delete Second Life" with no further branching, although there might be a period of a few years when both exist.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Right after that happens, the flow chart inserts a decision fork: "Is Whatever Life successful, Y/N?"

If no, the flow chart ends with "Delete Whatever Life".

If yes, the flow chart goes to "Delete Second Life" with no further branching, although there might be a period of a few years when both exist.

 

Could be "If no, the flowchart ends with 'Sell Whatever Life' ", Sansar precedent!

[Garnet Psaltery]

I think the problem with all the 'baggage' is that it's mostly our Inventories.  I wouldn't want to start again and spend as much.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

I think the problem with all the 'baggage' is that it's mostly our Inventories.  I wouldn't want to start again and spend as much.

If you're faced with starting from zero .. why elect to join SL2 when you could start from zero literally everywhere else and experience something else. 

[Istelathis]

If it was a large open world of user generated content, which allowed creation of objects in game along with scripting and provided as much freedom of SL I would probably have a go with it.

The problem is instead we would have two different platforms competing for an audience that is already generating money for LL.  The same thing happened to Everquest when they released Everquest 2, they did not bring in many new people they just shifted subscribers they already had between the two different games.  The result was mostly the same people who were playing EQ1 split in both games.  World of Warcraft learned from that mistake, and just updated their existing game as time progressed.  Even for WoW though, their subscription base slowly dwindled as people grew frustrated with the new systems and the demographic for such a s game started to go elsewhere or lose interest.

I personally would prefer we just focus on SL and updating it without driving off existing users.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Istelathis

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Coffee Pancake said:

If you're faced with starting from zero .. why elect to join SL2 when you could start from zero literally everywhere else and experience something else. 

I challenge the so-called "definition of insanity".  I would do the same things in SL2, hoping to experience something else! 

I call it the "nostalgia neurosis nostrum".

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

I personally would prefer we just focus on SL and updating it.

Was watching a video on the history of OpenGL yesterday and started to become frightened (based on how old OpenGL is)!  At least they didn't use DirectX.

I second your vote for "updating it".

[Alwin Alcott]

41 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

 This would not be like Sansar which was made very differently from SL.

The chance it would be Sansar like, is larger than the chance it's a new SL like. Sl is too old to make a clone. ( and that last would solve nothing)

Quote

Do you think this would make people think about joining because it is simply not SL with all it's baggage?

no, they would have to aim on a new public, because it is a new product. Oldies would encounter the exact same problems as they did with Sansar. The real SL core, the people, won't come all to the new one. And we know how good LL is in attrackting people to their products. ( none of the tenthousend sign ups every day, and a total of 14 for Sansar in 2 years)

Quote

It would be like taking a seed from a plant and making a whole new plant. 

Seed from plants that never reproduced, will not likely bring a good offsrping when it is expected. Thats a years long project of seeding and harvesting to get a new and strong product.
And it would require a new strategy, new teams, new everything....

Edited August 2, 2022 by Alwin Alcott

[Theresa Tennyson]

42 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

What if LL made a completely new client and server with a small continent, new avatars, a new prim building system, new engine and physics, but kept the exact same SL style where the residents make everything. Then they named it a completely new name like 'whatever life'. If you logged into it you'd feel right at home in the virtual world but it would be all shiny and new.  This would not be like Sansar which was made very differently from SL. It would be  hard reset and a starting point but SL would still exist as well. Do you think this would make people think about joining because it is simply not SL with all it's baggage? Maybe new creators would come in knowing they don't have to compete with the established ones. LL would also be able to regain it's control over the base avatars and not be dependent on resident made avatars. This wouldn't destroy SL. It would be like taking a seed from a plant and making a whole new plant. 

No.

[Bree Giffen]

44 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

If it was a large open world of user generated content, which allowed creation of objects in game along with scripting and provided as much freedom of SL I would probably have a go with it.

The problem is instead we would have two different platforms competing for an audience that is already generating money for LL.  The same thing happened to Everquest when they released Everquest 2, they did not bring in many new people they just shifted subscribers they already had between the two different games.  The result was mostly the same people who were playing EQ1 split in both games.  World of Warcraft learned from that mistake, and just updated their existing game as time progressed.  Even for WoW though, their subscription base slowly dwindled as people grew frustrated with the new systems and the demographic for such a s game started to go elsewhere or lose interest.

I personally would prefer we just focus on SL and updating it without driving off existing users.

What if LL stopped old SL residents from joining the new WL (Whatever Life)? That way everyone in SL would be in SL and new people could join WL.

I think there is more than just a technological barrier that stops new users. There is also a psychological barrier. It’s like trying to join a race where some people have had a head start of a few years. Or if Apple just offered the first iPhone and never changed it. People are attracted to new shiny objects and platforms and no amount of improvement will change their basic human behavior.

[LittleMe Jewell]

7 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

What if LL stopped old SL residents from joining the new WL (Whatever Life)? That way everyone in SL would be in SL and new people could join WL.

Unlikely they would make enough money to justify maintaining 2 systems.

If they did want to migrate the users, I think the percentage that would willingly go would be small.

[Nalates Urriah]

4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Unlikely they would make enough money to justify maintaining 2 systems.

If they did want to migrate the users, I think the percentage that would willingly go would be small.

They hit that sticking point with Sansar. So we have a good basis for thinking that.

[Alwin Alcott]

14 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

What if LL stopped old SL residents from joining the new WL

lets try to keep it realistic please 

[Coffee Pancake]

23 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

What if LL stopped old SL residents from joining the new WL (Whatever Life)?

Realistically, that's technically impossible. Enforcing it with real identity makes it socially impossible.

In both cases, the people who cheat the controls are those least likely to be a part of the "desired" customer demographic.

[Bree Giffen]

12 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

lets try to keep it realistic please 

How many old SL residents would actually move to a new world that doesn't have anything? What if LL did something like, no mesh importing? Instead, the new clothing creation and prim tools would be used. Perhaps a barrier would not be necessary. 

[Bree Giffen]

1 hour ago, panterapolnocy said:

The strength of SL is the user generated content plus users themselves. Sansar failed, mostly, for a reason - and despite better tech.

Exactly, WL (Whatever Life) would not be Sansar for the very reason of having SL style user generated content. But it would have the better tech like Sansar.

[Janet Voxel]

How close are we to the point where Second Life can no longer be feasibly improved upon?

I’m thinking we’re pretty close to that point. Say they stop using OpenGL and start using Vulkan, what’s left?

[Coffee Pancake]

Just now, Janet Voxel said:

How close are we to the point where Second Life can no longer be feasibly improved upon?

I’m thinking we’re pretty close to that point. Say they stop using OpenGL and start using Vulkan, what’s left?

There is tremendous scope for platform improvement and advancement and much of it can be done without dooming old content.

The more foundational building blocks like 'always on regions of a set size' aren't going to be easy to change and would and far reaching implications.

9 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

Exactly, WL (Whatever Life) would not be Sansar for the very reason of having SL style user generated content. But it would have the better tech like Sansar.

The style of UGC was never Sansar's problem. It was that the platform lacked all social tooling and didn't seem to think it important so long as someone could build a club.

 

[Istelathis]

56 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

What if LL stopped old SL residents from joining the new WL (Whatever Life)? That way everyone in SL would be in SL and new people could join WL.

It would run into the problem that people who like using SL are in short supply, what I think LL would want to do is reach out to a new audience and create a platform that appeals to them.  It would bring in new customers, but it would be a significantly different audience playing SL.  At that point, there would be no need to enforce such policies. Unfortunately for us though, doing so may come at the expense of SL, which I would not support.

If they wanted to have better retention, they could do that with SL though.  SL can be improved upon while retaining existing users and bring in new users.  I don't think it will ever be a major player in the VR worlds though.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Istelathis

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

I think SL should be left as is and do the usual improvements to it. What the Lab could do is do a licencing thing with a company for a new platform what would complement SL and let the other company develop and code SL2 and pay royalties to Linden Lab.  If the new company's version implodes, it'll be on them and not the lab. If it's total success the Lab could buy them out.

[Coffee Pancake]

or be bought ou .....

Wait a minute .. are we being bought by Meta and this thread is just floating ideas to keep us from burning the house down ?

[diamond Marchant]

Just to be clear, this is  a THOUGHT experiment (Gedankenexperiment).  In my thoughts, the new virtual world has avatars that move like they do in We Met in Virtual Reality but look like me (Maitreya/LeLutka).

Edited August 2, 2022 by diamond Marchant
usual typos