Antonioo Giano Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 Probably this has already been discussed, but I think that considering the times where we are on, can be discussed again. My personal opinion is that Fees for SIMs are one of the reasons that are killing (again) Second Life. Mainland is basically more abandoned than used (mostly only those on protected sea/water are taken). Full sims with that huge monthly cost make people struggle to create anything because you have always that sword pending on your head that makes you rush. In this period where new metaverses are coming (but they are way far from Second Life) thanks to the NFTs "fomo" (that is going down already) I think Linden Labs should start to consider going on that way. We see those metaverse talks everywhere, SL is in a way better position than ANY metaverse. I would disagree with making Second Life a speculative crypto-related thing (And I say this working in the sector) but I think it should start to consider ways with NFTs and wallets easy to make for the userbase to start to give "real ownerships" at least for lands and removing the land fees. I get that for them is a way to keep a constant cash flow, but if Second Life dies.. there will be no cash flows and without people making amazing things on their own sims, SL can't last much. I remember back in time when SL was a thing (2008-2009.. around those years) was FULL of stuff to do even if the technology and the graphic weren't at this levels. Now.. is always the same stuff, clubs popping up everywhere and then closing down, and also some big places are starting to cut/close. If to this we add that we are going through a possible recession (in the USA and in Europe) plus the inflation going high.. for sure doesn't help to ask money that in some country are basically a rent. Increasing the price of the SIMs and making a one-time buy for me would be a good solution. What do you think? Cheers! 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Pole Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 Everybody is having to cut back on thing thanks to rising prices. However I am sure LL are well aware of the economies as they have to pay for the hosting of those sims whether they are full of abandoned land or not. This is sadly a cycle of autumn and winter we will have to endure. Not all places will survive as people cut their losses. I do not foresee any massive cutting of costs by LL for the simple fact that they (like any other business) have their own increasing costs to cover. I'm not sure of anything that has come down in price - unless its wages in the real term. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindal Kidd Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 The price of land has actually come DOWN a great deal from the prices charged back in 2008. The amount of prims supported by land has increased by 50% Linden Home parcels have doubled in size. A "one time buy" model for land is inconsistent with the ongoing costs LL has to pay for server rental/cloud based servers. Land in SL is FAR cheaper than land in any of the would-be cryptocurrency-based worlds such as Decentraland. LL has been "rebalancing" their revenue model, decreasing the fees charged for land and increasing other fees such as Premium membership and fees for buying and selling $L. 15 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonioo Giano Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 Well, but having all those abandoned and basically useless lands on mainlands as you said is still a cost for them, and nobody is going to get those lands. So they could even consider to start from there to sell some portion of Mainland regions giving to people buying a one-time price instead of a monthly fee. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindal Kidd Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 See #4 above. When something costs you $100 A MONTH, you do not then offer to let someone else use it for a one time fee of $200. After the third month, you're losing money. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonioo Giano Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said: The price of land has actually come DOWN a great deal from the prices charged back in 2008. The amount of prims supported by land has increased by 50% Linden Home parcels have doubled in size. A "one time buy" model for land is inconsistent with the ongoing costs LL has to pay for server rental/cloud based servers. Land in SL is FAR cheaper than land in any of the would-be cryptocurrency-based worlds such as Decentraland. LL has been "rebalancing" their revenue model, decreasing the fees charged for land and increasing other fees such as Premium membership and fees for buying and selling $L. Point 5 is wrong. In Decentraland and other metaverse/crypto stuff you pay once. No monthly fees. Prices at the launch were way lower than the prices they have now (but that is just speculation, they will likely going to fall anytime, so is not what I'm focusing on now). Is a different approach anyway. But is not true that SL is cheaper. 229usd per month is a very high amount to pay. Is not the price of the land itself, but the fees are too high to keep SL "alive" and full of interesting stuff (made from people). 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Pole Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, Antonioo Giano said: Well, but having all those abandoned and basically useless lands on mainlands as you said is still a cost for them, and nobody is going to get those lands. So they could even consider to start from there to sell some portion of Mainland regions giving to people buying a one-time price instead of a monthly fee. They do sell off the mainland plots via auctions and anyone can even raise a ticket to purchase abandoned land. Thing is I think people sprawled over the mainland and then Linden Homes version 1 came - it did not make much of a difference as they were poorly placed. When Linden Homes version 2 came people actually moved from the mainland to these places as the homes themselves did not count to the land impact and the places actually looked good. The old mainland places are sad to see empty yes but the fact that LL are rolling out loads and loads of new homes that are snapped up fast shows that peoples tastes and wants have changed on the whole. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonioo Giano Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 Just now, Randy Pole said: They do sell off the mainland plots via auctions and anyone can even raise a ticket to purchase abandoned land. Thing is I think people sprawled over the mainland and then Linden Homes version 1 came - it did not make much of a difference as they were poorly placed. When Linden Homes version 2 came people actually moved from the mainland to these places as the homes themselves did not count to the land impact and the places actually looked good. The old mainland places are sad to see empty yes but the fact that LL are rolling out loads and loads of new homes that are snapped up fast shows that peoples tastes and wants have changed on the whole. I know they sell the mainlands. I owned many mainlands myself and got many from abandoned (when I was finding good protected water/road). But the problem is then to pay those fees. I would instead raise a bit the price and consider to sell large portions of abandoned lands in some regions to people owning it without paying fees. If is not sustainable for them... I don't know how SL can survive then. Finding good places in SL is soo hard lately and as I said also big places are closing down. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 As people let go of their owned estates, they will probably be renting from some other person, be it a large land company or a smaller owner. Either way, it balances itself out to some extent. The new Linden home regions are nearly full. Premium memberships are also a backbone of LL's income. At the end of the day, SL is a luxury item. Just as in RL, if you need to cut back, you cut back on luxuries. The economy was pretty bad in 2008 and LL weathered that storm just fine. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonioo Giano Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 In 2008 SL was a thing. I'm not from the USA and I remember SL mentioned here in newspapers and on TV. With real-life companies from my country, politicians, singers.. having stuff on SL. And I'm speaking only about my country (Italy) which is not one of the quickest one to get into technology stuff and back in time I was going only into Italian sims as my english was nonexistent and was more than enough to keep me "busy" all the time. Today? Is hard to find anything interesting even if you open the research to "english speaking" things. Everything is so limited. The general idea of people outside SL is that SL is dead and they speak about it in the past. You find tons of stuff on internet speaking about why SL failed. Now that all those metaverse talks are a trend again.. I didn't see LL trying to take over again, and there aren't other metaverses at the levels (for graphics, userbase etc..) that we have in SL but still... they did nothing. As a company you must renew yourself, you can't think that if you made in 2008 you will make it also now. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonioo Giano Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 @Klytyna are you even able to say something instead of putting useless laughs to posts? Laugh also to this if you want. I guess it speaks for itself a person that instead of exchanging opinions prefers to put laugh emojis like a 12yrs old 1 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 If you feel that strongly about it, put in a JIRA ticket and/or attend some of the inworld meetings to voice your opinion. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 8 minutes ago, Antonioo Giano said: @Klytyna are you even able to say something instead of putting useless laughs to posts? Laugh also to this if you want. I guess it speaks for itself a person that instead of exchanging opinions prefers to put laugh emojis like a 12yrs old Her posts would just get reported so why should she bother? If you check her posting history, you'll see she used to post but people couldn't handle her no holds barred attitude. I may not have agreed with her all the time, but she brought up some very good points. Her presentation may be lacking in tact but there isn't a thing wrong with her mind and she definitely isn't 12 years old. 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonioo Giano Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said: Her posts would just get reported so why should she bother? If you check her posting history, you'll see she used to post but people couldn't handle her no holds barred attitude. I may not have agreed with her all the time, but she brought up some very good points. Her presentation may be lacking in tact but there isn't a thing wrong with her mind and she definitely isn't 12 years old. If you disagree with something and what you write gets reported. Means there is something wrong. I completely get that majority of people would just disagree with my point of view, especially if you mention NFTs, for some people is like talking about Devil.. but as a grown-up man if I disagree with something I'm able to explain my point of view normally, instead of risking to get a report. Instead... she puts useless laughs that are just a provocation and shows which type of person she is.. and why she had "reports" problems in the past But anyway she got even too much attention from me now, if she is entertained like that and she wastes her time provocating people by putting laugh emojis to their posts.. I'm sorry for her.. but whatever. Better stay in-topic now. Edit: She took one minute to put the emoji lol.. Next post I'll organize a fundraise to buy her a life. Edited June 12, 2022 by Antonioo Giano 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 She has powerful emojo 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsian Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 You're okay Antonioo everyone feels your pain regarding fees and frustration. I've learned lashing out on someone is not cool and violates the forums tos can't personally attack someone even if you think they are making of you or laughing at you. I can't speak for other people. My only advise with forums is try not to take reactions and replies too serious. We're all on the same team. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwar Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 I don't know how much precisely it costs LL to run a simulator for a region, but it's not as if halving the prices and doubling the amount of land people rent would be equal the income - and if they lowered the prices by 50%, would there be a 100% increase in land rentals? $114.50 a month is still a lot of money for most people, and I don't think that the land barons could double their land holdings and expect double the amount of tenants; the demand for land in SL is limited, and by chopping the prices in half all that would happen for them is that more people might start to compete against them for cheap rentals (and you can easily get rentals for less than L$1 per prim and week - not along the Corsican coast with access to a main road and railway all at once whilst neighbouring a nice airport, of course, but if all you want is a skybox a corner of a private region is perfect). So, yeah. I haven't got any figures for the precise details of how it looks, but in short; economics are a little more complicated than what goes on the price tag - I'm sure LL have put a little more time and effort in the pricing process than I did in a 2-minute off-the-cuff post about it. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 10 minutes ago, Antonioo Giano said: Next post I'll organize a fundraise to buy her a life. i have mainland, can't afford participating in a fund raiser [ and my opinion.. she would be welcome to post again, but understand why not] 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Antonioo Giano said: What do you think? most months of a year i can afford renting a homestead, if my funds get less, i stop renting... and mostly move to mainland to wait till funds raise again, and start at the begin of this line .. doing it for 15 yrs, it comes as it comes or goes as it goes .. Edited June 12, 2022 by Alwin Alcott 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayashe Ninetails Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Antonioo Giano said: I remember back in time when SL was a thing (2008-2009.. around those years) was FULL of stuff to do even if the technology and the graphic weren't at this levels. Now.. is always the same stuff, clubs popping up everywhere and then closing down, and also some big places are starting to cut/close. I frequently see people say this, but it's pretty much the same as it was back then, entertainment-wise. Clubs are always notorious for opening, lasting for a little bit (if they're lucky), and shutting down and always have been - even back in 2005/2006 that was happening. As it stands now, there's still a ton of stuff to do in SL, despite things opening and closing. *inhales* Boating/sailing, fishing, surfing, swimming, scuba diving, horseback riding, motorcycle riding, auto racing, hoverboarding, roller skating, ice skating, exploring, hot air ballooning, gaming, roleplaying, shopping, scripting, combat gaming, wrestling, running a business, clubbing, dancing, DJing, hosting, vampiring, demoning, mermaiding, dragoning, furrying, creating avatars, styling avatars, photography, machinima, fashion modeling, blogging, blogging about fashion, blogging about bloggers blogging about fashion, selling, buying, hunting for freebies, socializing, adult activities, creating art, admiring art, buying art, showcasing art, life sim games (BeYou), breedables, raising pets, raising breedable pets, petting breedables, decorating, landscaping and terraforming, playing house, building houses, selling houses, running dating services, planning weddings, hosting weddings, crashing weddings (in more ways than one!), getting divorced, roleplaying a divorce lawyer and profiting off of divorces... *exhales* This all still exists, just as it did back in 200*. Now yes, people are absolutely more spread out around the grid, but there are groups that exist for much of this stuff, too, so it's not too difficult to connect with others interested in similar activities. It's really all about making your own fun - same as it ever was, I suppose. I can't comment on the land prices, though. Paying hundreds a month for entertainment has never been my jam, so I never kept up with all that. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonioo Giano Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Alwin Alcott said: most years i can afford renting a homestead, if my funds get less, i stop renting... and mostly move to mainland to wait till funds raise again, and start at the begin of this line .. doing it for 15 yrs, it comes as it comes or goes as it goes .. The thing is.. I'm not really speaking for myself. I could afford too. The problem is not me wanting to pay less because I can't afford a SIM. I don't get any SIM because I wouldn't know what to do with it, honestly. The problem are people that could make very good stuff to make SL more "entertaining" that aren't willing to rent for the high fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Antonioo Giano said: SIM region Quote The problem are people that could make very good stuff to make SL more "entertaining" that aren't willing to rent for the high fees. they can rent .. is cheaper than own it. Edited June 12, 2022 by Alwin Alcott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonioo Giano Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said: region they can rent .. is cheaper than own it. How renting is cheaper if the owners needs to pay the fees himself? It can be cheaper just if the owner has a GF SIM (ops.. region) but whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 26 minutes ago, Antonioo Giano said: If you disagree with something and what you write gets reported. Means there is something wrong. I completely get that majority of people would just disagree with my point of view, especially if you mention NFTs, for some people is like talking about Devil.. but as a grown-up man if I disagree with something I'm able to explain my point of view normally, instead of risking to get a report. Instead... she puts useless laughs that are just a provocation and shows which type of person she is.. and why she had "reports" problems in the past But anyway she got even too much attention from me now, if she is entertained like that and she wastes her time provocating people by putting laugh emojis to their posts.. I'm sorry for her.. but whatever. Better stay in-topic now. Edit: She took one minute to put the emoji lol.. Next post I'll organize a fundraise to buy her a life. Instead of making her look bad, you're making yourself look even worse. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Antonioo Giano said: How renting is cheaper if the owners needs to pay the fees himself? It can be cheaper just if the owner has a GF SIM (ops.. region) but whatever. It's cheaper to own or rent smaller than a sim.. The sim owner themselves just need to make sure they have enough coming in from the rent to cover the sim. If they own a bunch of sims, they just need enough coming from all their sims to cover all their sims.. They may get more money from some sims than others that help with the costs.. ETA: That's just in the land dealings.. they could have other things going on that help with the costs as well.. Edited June 12, 2022 by Ceka Cianci 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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