Elon Musk buys Twitter to bring back Free Speech

[Solar Legion]

13 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

And would Social Security payments be taxed as well? Because if so, you just put me on the streets. That is not an exaggeration. The main reason I don't live alone is because I can't afford to on a fixed income. Tax it and I can no longer pay my rent.

One size does NOT fit all.

Ah yerp.

 

[AnthonyJoanne]

1 hour ago, Robberinthemuseum said:

How did this thread turn into a other trans discussion 😅? Also, I feel calling women 'Karen' is thinly veiled misogyny. ENOUGH!!!

I have two responses that leapt to mind on the the Karen topic.

Here is my first, somewhat more serious one:

Calling A woman Karen is not misogyny. Calling ALL women Karen is misogyny.

The 'Karen' designator is a shorthand term for a set of behavioral patterns which HAVE been observed frequently in RL. It is sufficiently frequently observed that pretty much everyone 'gets' the concept in short order ... which is a pretty good evidence that the 'Karen' behavioral pattern actually exists in reality.

So if it's REAL, and it APPLIES to a given individual ... then using that designator isn't misogyny. Whether or not it applies to Warren ... I can't say.

Referring to Warren as Senator Karen is clearly a JOKE. Arguably it's a mild insult as well.

Senator Warren is no more entitled to insulation from insult than any other US Politician ... it comes with the job.

 

Here is my second, somewhat more tongue-in-cheek response:

It's not misogyny if we SAY it's not misogyny.

This is the standard established by those upright pillars of the rectitude: Feminists, who can say "KILL ALL MEN" and then say that it's not misandry.

Enough said.

 

 

As to how the thread ended up another trans discussion: When a certain segment of the population are losing the argument, or unable to counter the points of those with whom they are arguing ... the inevitable result is that they start hurling slurs. Neo Nazi. Misogynist. Transphobe. White Supremacist.

That, I should note, is the segment of the population who are currently fouling their underwear because it looks like they are going to lose control over twitter ... which is rather ironic, when you think about it.

Go and have a look at the narrative about anyone that that segment wants to remove from public discourse and they ALWAYS make the same claims. Nazi (or Neo Nazi). White supremacist. Transphobe. Homophobe. Misogynist. Racist.

I am quite sure that at least one of the people that I've blocked on this forum for being bigoted or for repeatedly showing that they cannot argue in good faith has called me a transphobe.

Yet I am the person who, back in the late 80s, sat and held the hand of a friend who was going in for SRS when her family rejected her.

I am the person who waited throughout the surgery and was there when she finally came back from recovery.

I am the person who visited her every day until she went home (the other side of the country).

I am the person who was in contact with her for several years until we finally lost touch.

That's how transphobic I am.

 

The point? The people making these claims have established in their own minds that they are the arbiters of what is and what isn't. They get to decide if something is transphobic, or any of the other ists or phobes that they find useful to stifle debate. There's no reason why they should have that power ... and every reason why they should not, given their track record.

The thread ended up being another trans discussion because once again that segment of the population trotted out their usual list of claims and made damn sure it became another trans discussion. And another Nazi discussion. And another Sexist discussion. Etc Ad-Nauseum.

 

[Lindal Kidd]

1 hour ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

And would Social Security payments be taxed as well? Because if so, you just put me on the streets. That is not an exaggeration. The main reason I don't live alone is because I can't afford to on a fixed income. Tax it and I can no longer pay my rent.

One size does NOT fit all.

MY Social Security is taxed. Why not yours?

Not that I want to see you thrown out on the street.

[Solar Legion]

5 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

MY Social Security is taxed. Why not yours?

Not that I want to see you thrown out on the street.

Simple answer: You have another income source.

Yay for you. Not everyone does.

ETA: If you do not meet the criteria listed by the IRS, then it is beyond time to fix it.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Solar Legion

[Silent Mistwalker]

5 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

MY Social Security is taxed. Why not yours?

Not that I want to see you thrown out on the street.

Probably because you earned far more than I ever did. I would have gotten less than $1000 per month but thanks to fairly recent legislation it will now be less than $700 per month. My lot rent is $650 per month. That does not include water and sewer that has to be paid with the rent.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

51 minutes ago, AnthonyJoanne said:

Feminists, who can say "KILL ALL MEN" and then say that it's not misandry.

Hi, card-caring feminist here. I even teach it. Here on earth.

And what planet do you live on?

[Moondira]

Dear Heavenly Father,

Please give me the strength to calmly close my laptop and prepare for sleep, so as not to be suspended from the forum tonight.

Amen

[Silent Mistwalker]

Yesterday:

[Scylla Rhiadra]

7 minutes ago, Moondira said:

Dear Heavenly Father,

Please give me the strength to calmly close my laptop and prepare for sleep, so as not to be suspended from the forum tonight.

Amen

One of the really great things about free speech is that it gives some people the opportunity to out themselves by saying something so utterly ignorant that it tells you all you really need to know about them.

Such a time saver, really. And it allows me to focus upon people -- including those with whom I disagree -- who have conversely demonstrated that they are worth my time and effort.

[Paul Hexem]

41 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Hi, card-caring feminist here. I even teach it. Here on earth.

And what planet do you live on?

You may be a feminist, but you're not a feminist.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Paul Hexem said:

You may be a feminist, but you're not a feminist.

Is that some kind of weird compliment, Paul? 😏

[Robberinthemuseum]

1 hour ago, AnthonyJoanne said:

I have two responses that leapt to mind on the the Karen topic.

Here is my first, somewhat more serious one:

Calling A woman Karen is not misogyny. Calling ALL women Karen is misogyny.

The 'Karen' designator is a shorthand term for a set of behavioral patterns which HAVE been observed frequently in RL. It is sufficiently frequently observed that pretty much everyone 'gets' the concept in short order ... which is a pretty good evidence that the 'Karen' behavioral pattern actually exists in reality.

So if it's REAL, and it APPLIES to a given individual ... then using that designator isn't misogyny. Whether or not it applies to Warren ... I can't say.

Referring to Warren as Senator Karen is clearly a JOKE. Arguably it's a mild insult as well.

Senator Warren is no more entitled to insulation from insult than any other US Politician ... it comes with the job.

 

Here is my second, somewhat more tongue-in-cheek response:

It's not misogyny if we SAY it's not misogyny.

This is the standard established by those upright pillars of the rectitude: Feminists, who can say "KILL ALL MEN" and then say that it's not misandry.

Enough said.

 

 

As to how the thread ended up another trans discussion: When a certain segment of the population are losing the argument, or unable to counter the points of those with whom they are arguing ... the inevitable result is that they start hurling slurs. Neo Nazi. Misogynist. Transphobe. White Supremacist.

That, I should note, is the segment of the population who are currently fouling their underwear because it looks like they are going to lose control over twitter ... which is rather ironic, when you think about it.

Go and have a look at the narrative about anyone that that segment wants to remove from public discourse and they ALWAYS make the same claims. Nazi (or Neo Nazi). White supremacist. Transphobe. Homophobe. Misogynist. Racist.

I am quite sure that at least one of the people that I've blocked on this forum for being bigoted or for repeatedly showing that they cannot argue in good faith has called me a transphobe.

Yet I am the person who, back in the late 80s, sat and held the hand of a friend who was going in for SRS when her family rejected her.

I am the person who waited throughout the surgery and was there when she finally came back from recovery.

I am the person who visited her every day until she went home (the other side of the country).

I am the person who was in contact with her for several years until we finally lost touch.

That's how transphobic I am.

 

The point? The people making these claims have established in their own minds that they are the arbiters of what is and what isn't. They get to decide if something is transphobic, or any of the other ists or phobes that they find useful to stifle debate. There's no reason why they should have that power ... and every reason why they should not, given their track record.

The thread ended up being another trans discussion because once again that segment of the population trotted out their usual list of claims and made damn sure it became another trans discussion. And another Nazi discussion. And another Sexist discussion. Etc Ad-Nauseum.

 

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of misandry either. 

[Robberinthemuseum]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Hi, card-caring feminist here. I even teach it. Here on earth.

And what planet do you live on?

If your algorithm is pointing you towards the manosphere you can fall down that rabbit hole, same as the grievance culture stuff. For whatever reason, being a victim of something is very appealing to a lot of people apparently. 

[Robberinthemuseum]

31 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Is that some kind of weird compliment, Paul? 😏

Check out Megalia. The members are crazy! They say that all s3x is r@pe and marriage is slavery. One member even said that she teaches her son to hate himself and she wishes she could legally cut off his p3nis. They're just as bad as incels if not worse. 

[AzrealZen]

There are one million one hundred seven thousand seven hundred and thirty six people with that name in the USA right now.

[Rilee Dallas]

I hope my name is safe for awhile!

[CaithLynnSayes]

6 hours ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

Did you just quote sex pest Steven Crowder like it proves anything? Jokes.

I agree with the point he's making... Thought that was obvious as to why i would post that... 

[Eirynne Sieyes]

11 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Which is one of the reasons why some (including myself) are concerned about his championing of so-called "free speech." The complaint raised in this thread by @Extrude Ragu and @Eirynne Sieyes  about the vitriol and toxicity of some of the attack on Musk here in this thread are a wee bit ironic in this context. I don't mean this in a snarky way, but, really, this does seem to be, in some measure, the tone that Musk himself has established, and that will probably become a lot more prevalent should he actually get his way about opening up the platform to "free speech." It happens a lot on Twitter now: expect it to happen more. And the "vitriol" here is, ironically, an exemplification of the potential impact of his control over the platform.

@Scylla RhiadraRather than what tone you believe Musk sets, which parenthetically you use to condone the behavior here, my comment referred to the vitriol that we, the citizens of this forum, create.

I asked if this angry tone represents who we want to be.  

I asked for personal reasons, hoping my question would lead some of us to reflect and chill. Mindfulness is a great thing.

Speaking for myself, I would love to see us minimize the vitriol and just talk. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

8 minutes ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

Rather than what tone you believe Musk sets, which parenthetically you use to condone the behavior here, my comment referred to the vitriol that we, the citizens of this forum, create.

I said no such thing.

On the contrary, I was suggesting that the frequently unpleasant tone here is characteristic of what we might expect to see more of on Twitter if Musk's own frequently negative voice, and a more liberal acceptance of negativity, sets the tone for discourse there. The entire premise of my remarks is that that, and the tone that has developed here, is not a good thing. That's not "condoning" the tone here: it's saying it exemplifies what we don't want.

What I have said on at least two occasions here is that his personality, voice, and political views are not what I object to. I don't like to see a tool as powerful and influential as Twitter wielded by a single person, regardless of who that person is.

[Rilee Dallas]

10 minutes ago, Eirynne Sieyes said:

Mindfulness is a great thing. 

Yes very great! Being at peace within and without. That one famous person said to not judge others. Understanding is always superior to judging. Life is too short to be mad at others or to dislike others. Loving all is superior to only loving some. This world is full of kittens and mountain lions, know which to snuggle and which to avoid.

[Rilee Dallas]

12 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I don't like to see a tool as powerful and influential as Twitter wielded by a single person, regardless of who that person is.

It's always had only one CEO hasn't it? 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

5 minutes ago, Rilee Dallas said:

It's always had only one CEO hasn't it? 

And a whole raft of shareholders, as well as a board of directors, to all of whom the CEO is responsible.

https://investor.twitterinc.com/corporate-governance/board-of-directors/default.aspx

To be honest, I don't think even that corporate governance structure is sufficiently responsible. That's why we need -- and, in Australia, the EU, and even Canada are starting to see -- some government oversight and regulation.

It's currently a public company, which means there is more transparency now than there will be when Musk takes it private.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra
Clarification

[Akane Nacht]

13 hours ago, Istelathis said:

The problem with Musk is that people take him seriously, as he is in a position of authority and often speaks from a position of authority. 

Hm.. is he though? He's certainly a celebrity and a successful businessman who makes the news frequently, but he isn't an elected official and is not required to uphold any moral code beyond obeying the law of wherever he's doing business. 

I've never considered Elon as a thought leader, but more as an eccentric inventor/businessman. Perhaps those (who agree or disagree with him) might want to evaluate why they care so much about his opinion, because at the end of the day, it's just that - his own personal opinion.

If twitter becomes a vehicle of his own personal opinion, it may succeed or it may fail, but I guess he is a smart enough businessman to know that a one-opinion platform is going to get boring. In real terms, his opinions mean nothing to me - what I'll be watching is his international investments and whether it benefits my country 🙂

[Istelathis]

1 hour ago, Akane Nacht said:

Hm.. is he though?

Yes, Elon has quite a lot of sway over people, more so than what you may expect - especially if you are not prone to hero worship. He is not an elected official, but he has a lot of influence and many people trust in him nearly unconditionally.  His opinions mean nothing to you, they may mean nothing for a lot of people, but there is a demographic out there that cling on to his every word as though it were gospel, beyond that group there are quite a lot of people who have a lot of faith built in him.

One would hope, that someone with as much influence over others, which is considered a visionary and a shaper of our world, would likewise do so in a responsible manner.  He is free to say and do as he wishes so long as it is legal of course, for that matter so are our elected officials, but I do not understand why anyone would feel bothered that some of us may not feel it is ethical or more specifically responsible, despite the fact that he is not tied down by any sense of morality under law - if they are not invested in the ethics of it either.  Earlier he was informing others which medication to take regarding mental illness, not really a wise move, considering he knows next to nothing about the subject- yet there were people there more than willing to consider his advice as legitimate, still more that were complaining about others persecuting him for being wrong.  He of course, has no legal obligation to this matter, and morality being a figment of our imagination can not tie him down as well.  From a personal standpoint, I find the behavior to be repulsive - not that it matters in the least bit.

Why wouldn't people care about it though?  Especially people who feel his actions may have an impact on their lives?

Edited May 1, 2022 by Istelathis

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

It appears that this strongman hype thing is repeating itself at an ever-accelerating pace now. Around AD 33, it was JC, circa AD 610, it was Muhammad, AD 2016, we had DJT, last Saturday, we witnessed the rise of Musk. According to my calculations, the next Messiah will present himself within twenty-five minutes.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Arduenn Schwartzman