Themed, Covenanted, Mainland - another idea.

[Anna Nova]

Okay, so some of you didn't like my suggestion in the other thread about an adult Linden home region,  how about another idea:  A mainland-connected place where you, as a Premium customer,  can buy land (and pay tier), but are restricted to a covenant and theme in what you can build, and critically, what your security orb can do.  I am not asking for Adult especially, indeed it could be General.

I am thinking of the horror of buying the perfect mainland parcel next to a protected-land road, spending months building the perfect house and surroundings, and then have some <expletive deleted> buy the parcel next door and put up a max-prim picture of their idea of a view in, thereby ruining all that investment and work.  And yes, I know 'I' can de-render it, but you, arriving here will not appreciate my work at all.  I also know about private sims where there is a covenant, but that are not connected to the mainlands.

Please forgive me for suggesting this in the Linden Homes forum, it seems to be the sort of place that this gets discussed.

[June Starlight]

I am struggling to see how it would be different from Belli (since it is connected to Mainland), aside from not having mandatory house on the parcel.

[Anna Nova]

19 minutes ago, June Starlight said:

I am struggling to see how it would be different from Belli (since it is connected to Mainland), aside from not having mandatory house on the parcel.

Belli - tiny 1024 parcel, everything decided by Linden Lab and built by their Moles.

My idea - as big (or small) as you can buy, everything within covenant decided by owner, and built by them. 

[Syo Emerald]

Wouldn't this thread fit better in the mainland subforum?

[Alwin Alcott]

1 hour ago, Anna Nova said:

Please forgive me for suggesting this in the Linden Homes forum, it seems to be the sort of place that this gets discussed.

it belongs in the mainland section, not here, no matter if it's discussed or not.

[Alwin Alcott]

1 hour ago, Anna Nova said:

Okay, so some of you didn't like my suggestion in the other thread about an adult Linden home region,  how about another idea:  A mainland-connected place where you, as a Premium customer,  can buy land (and pay tier), but are restricted to a covenant and theme in what you can build, and critically, what your security orb can do.  I am not asking for Adult especially, indeed it could be General.

that's what we call mainland communities,... there are lots of those.

[Anna Nova]

2 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

that's what we call mainland communities,... there are lots of those.

but only rentals.

[Alwin Alcott]

1 hour ago, Anna Nova said:

but only rentals.

buy land next to a community and join it?
If you donate your tier level to the group, rent will not really be a lot.

[Kathlen Onyx]

5 hours ago, Anna Nova said:

Belli - tiny 1024 parcel, everything decided by Linden Lab and built by their Moles.

My idea - as big (or small) as you can buy, everything within covenant decided by owner, and built by them. 

So rather than have a covenant controlled by a company that is a fair and impartial party you want a covenant set by a landowner where they could set any rules they want? What if they change the rules after you spent months and months on this perfect house and surroundings and then decided to let anyone in and do  what they want?

Isn't this what RPing communities are? Communities that are built by the owners and have their own covenant? The only difference is that it is not connected to the mainland and it doesn't come with a premium subscription.

I just don't see how this will work.  Who is going to be these owners and who is going to build them?

[Yukiko Yeshto]

2 hours ago, Anna Nova said:

but only rentals.

That's actually not true. There are communities on mainland where different landholders collaborate and try to make their individual parcels blending in nicely with the others. Maybe you just didn't find those communities yet?

And while some on mainland can indeed be annoying, I wonder, what holds people back from reaching out to their neighbours and ask if they wanted to collaborate? The times I made good experiences with that are more than the times a new neighbour didn't care.

[LittleMe Jewell]

My guess is that LL Governance already has enough on their plate with trying to deal with Linden Home covenant violations as well as all of the other ARs they get.  They'd have to be able to make enough from the Premium memberships and Land Tier to justify hiring more Governance people, and still profit from it.

[animats]

There are themed areas in SL. New Babbage probably has the strictest covenant, with a building code and building inspection. It works.

I'd like to see a few terms from the Bellessaria covenant extended to mainland. Mostly the restrictions on altitudes for skyboxes and timing of security orbs.

This has to stop.

I'd like to see LL offer isolated regions for skybox stacks. Those things need to get off mainland.

[Rowan Amore]

11 hours ago, Anna Nova said:

Okay, so some of you didn't like my suggestion in the other thread about an adult Linden home region,  how about another idea:  A mainland-connected place where you, as a Premium customer,  can buy land (and pay tier), but are restricted to a covenant and theme in what you can build, and critically, what your security orb can do.  I am not asking for Adult especially, indeed it could be General.

I am thinking of the horror of buying the perfect mainland parcel next to a protected-land road, spending months building the perfect house and surroundings, and then have some <expletive deleted> buy the parcel next door and put up a max-prim picture of their idea of a view in, thereby ruining all that investment and work.  And yes, I know 'I' can de-render it, but you, arriving here will not appreciate my work at all.  I also know about private sims where there is a covenant, but that are not connected to the mainlands.

Please forgive me for suggesting this in the Linden Homes forum, it seems to be the sort of place that this gets discussed.

If they were to do this, they would lose out on a very lucrative option they already have in place for private estates to connect with Mainland.

A recurring annual maintenance fee in the amount of USD$500.00 

Linden Lab Official:Community Land Partnership Program - Second Life Wiki

[Stephanie Misfit]

Brown is mainland and has a covenant. LL does not enforce it. When I lived there I don't know how many times I reported people for not following it and nothing was ever done. I can't see that this is something they would be interested in doing again.

[animats]

3 hours ago, Stephanie Misfit said:

Brown is mainland and has a covenant.

I just went to Brown. "There is no covenant provided for this estate". There's a notecard dispenser that gives out "Brown Zoning Guidelines" notecards from 2003,  owned by Michael Linden. There's a dead mall with vacant stalls. There are overpriced vacant lots owned by the usual suspects. There are a few houses. It's mostly owned by the usual landlords for vacant properties, with prices around L$30/m^2. Nobody but me is in the region, or any adjacent region.

That's Brown.

So, not a good model to copy.

[ArgontheDevil Ormega]

If you love the Bellisarian covenant so much, stay there.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 12/2/2021 at 2:21 AM, Anna Nova said:

Okay, so some of you didn't like my suggestion in the other thread about an adult Linden home region,  how about another idea:  A mainland-connected place where you, as a Premium customer,  can buy land (and pay tier), but are restricted to a covenant and theme in what you can build, and critically, what your security orb can do.  I am not asking for Adult especially, indeed it could be General.

I am thinking of the horror of buying the perfect mainland parcel next to a protected-land road, spending months building the perfect house and surroundings, and then have some <expletive deleted> buy the parcel next door and put up a max-prim picture of their idea of a view in, thereby ruining all that investment and work.  And yes, I know 'I' can de-render it, but you, arriving here will not appreciate my work at all.  I also know about private sims where there is a covenant, but that are not connected to the mainlands.

Please forgive me for suggesting this in the Linden Homes forum, it seems to be the sort of place that this gets discussed.

Why do you want Linden Lab to do this idea? If I understood you correctly.

What you are describing is what Mainland rentals companies do. There are actually a lot of us. And large or small, we make the areas we run look good and have rules, i.e. no photo-real boards, no black boxes, no orbs on the ground, etc. as in my rentals, and similar rules or even more rules in other communities.

This is renting, not buying, but renting is less expensive, and on group land you have all the powers you would have if you were owner except the right to parcel and sell the land.

I also add "can't return group prims" so tenants can't return the rental boxes and builds they don't like.

Another idea is to find a group of people and get a whole sim so that you control the view and the experience more.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

3 hours ago, animats said:

I just went to Brown. "There is no covenant provided for this estate". There's a notecard dispenser that gives out "Brown Zoning Guidelines" notecards from 2003,  owned by Michael Linden. There's a dead mall with vacant stalls. There are overpriced vacant lots owned by the usual suspects. There are a few houses. It's mostly owned by the usual landlords for vacant properties, with prices around L$30/m^2. Nobody but me is in the region, or any adjacent region.

That's Brown.

So, not a good model to copy.

Obviously your visit was very cursory and a self-fulfilling prophecy and you didn't bother to look at the obvious things those of us who have been on this sim for years could point out.

Brown is a Linden-zoned sim, whether you find a notecard from 2003 compelling or not.

You cannot terraform at all on this sim. It has more roads and trees than other sims of that era in Sansara.

The stalls are not "all vacant," but there are quite a few full ones, including an artist, various creators, and my rental signs, to mention only some. It's really a misrepresentation of Brown, where I have had land for more than 17 years to claim this.

The Lindens don't police it as they once did but commerce is only allowed in the marketplace and no skyboxes are allowed, it's in G. And they will come and reinforce this at times.

I have tenants on my properties and I believe two vacancies - G is hard to rent out. Some of those tenants have been there for more than five years and are very happy. There are charter member oldbies still on the sim and various others who have been there for years.

Yes, there are land barons that seized some corners of it and offer it for a high price from old habit when these zoned Linden sims were worth a fortune, before Blake Sea. But they aren't worth that now and I even got an abandoned parcel there not long ago.

The Brown and Boardman Linden zones were the first, and they didn't copy their own model because they found it too much staff work. At first they provided house but people begged to get rid of them, they were not habitable. They then made Schermerhorn etc and also that ended badly.

But they didn't delete these sims, they kept them; it's their first prototype and there is no reason to delete it in fact, it has people on it.

The Lindens have never been able to accept that zoning has to mean no orbs on the ground and no builds over two stories. These are very very basic rules many rentals agencies have, and even Abnor Mole doesn't accept the "no build over two storeys" concept and he takes the Bellisserian position that the orb can be on the ground, as long as it doesn't send home, and only ejects a few meters away. But that's not good enough, and makes the experience unpleasant.

Nautilus was zoned in a way by having lots of easements, double prims, and free Linden buildings in theme. But the Lindens allowed giant towers to be build there that closed off the view for everyone else. It was super expensive and now is still expensive but that's due to double prims.

The Lindens basically never met a script they didn't like. Philip once considered deprecating the bounce script completely but all these oldbies and Linden code cavers hammered him with this fake argument that it was needed "for elevators" until he dropped his intention. What it was needed for was to stop skybox perving by newbs -- but then that's why it can be set just to the perimeter of a skybox.

With the ability to cam on the ground, no orb is going to do any good anyway; if you uncheck "avatars can't see me," you can have the ultimate privacy.

There is no reason why the Lindens couldn't have had zoned sims as to themed activity from the very start, i.e. to designate certain sims as "clubs" or "stores" or "residences" or "experiments". That would have separated out a lot of the activities and content that so vex people. It could be resident-reported as to violations and need not make any more work for the staff than they have now, given that they ignore reports. But peer pressure plays a role and over time these communities do get established. They could have set the tone and didn't. They wanted everything to be a sandbox where you blew up things because that is how they treated the world from the very first moment they created it themselves, as a mere test site for their rig (VR goggles).

There is no reason why today, the Lindens couldn't make a Bellisseria section that has "place your own home under two storeys" and "no orbs except in the sky".

Since I have been in Brown so many years I know they DO enforce their old zoning rules -- but selectively. Many times tenants of mine who had an art work inside their house with a bared breast, or who used swear words, would find themselves AR'd by a very assiduous creepy stalker of mine who would get the ARs to stick. G is a place that exists for your enemies to harass you. It is seldom used for its intended purpose.

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Prokofy Neva

[Prokofy Neva]

13 hours ago, animats said:

There are themed areas in SL. New Babbage probably has the strictest covenant, with a building code and building inspection. It works.

I'd like to see a few terms from the Bellessaria covenant extended to mainland. Mostly the restrictions on altitudes for skyboxes and timing of security orbs.

This has to stop.

I'd like to see LL offer isolated regions for skybox stacks. Those things need to get off mainland.

I have gotten domes from one particular company to leave some sims by 1) mass petitions to the owners 2) boycotting of their very high-profile merchant events. If everyone does that, they will stop and move the domes up further above 500 and have one less of them. They are seldom fully occupied.

[Aethelwine]

This would seem to fit the description of what you want, but you can't just add one region on, the requirements are quite high for joining land to mainland.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Community_Land_Partnership_Program

[Anna Nova]

I learned a lot from my post.  Sorry not to have known all this.  My bad.

[Marianne Little]

On 12/2/2021 at 3:14 PM, Yukiko Yeshto said:

That's actually not true. There are communities on mainland where different landholders collaborate and try to make their individual parcels blending in nicely with the others. Maybe you just didn't find those communities yet?

And while some on mainland can indeed be annoying, I wonder, what holds people back from reaching out to their neighbours and ask if they wanted to collaborate? The times I made good experiences with that are more than the times a new neighbour didn't care.

A community like this was just cut up and some sold their parcels inside, where the new owners promptly returned all the landscaping. And put up ban lines.

Renting Mainland is less expensive, and I like it. I am aware that it is not my land, and it can disappear when the landowner quit SL or sell the land I view like my land. It is no covenant where I live now, but I use derender and blacklist when I have to. I am not so social, so that only I does not have to see it, does not matter much.

I do not use privacy walls and try to make my land as pretty and inviting as possible, the land that's sold and new people moving in has not put up privacy walls. I hope that's partly because of me.