Why firestorm viewer?

[Marianne Little]

I would not quit SL if Firestorm was banned.... but I would curse a lot and probably take a break until someone made a new alternative viewer with much of the same features.

[MoiraKathleen]

Many of the items listed as reasons why people use Firestorm are items that are also found in other 3rd party viewers - for example, Kokua has session or permanent derender, built in AO, chat bar commands, parcel lines on the mini-map, RLV, larger texture memory than the standard SL viewer, area search, old-style (non-web) search. 

I used to use Firestorm because I thought I needed it to get the features I wanted in a viewer, but one time when it looked like it was going to be months before a FS update was going to be released with new functionality  that was just released in the SL viewer at that time, and was something that I really wanted without having to wait months, I started checking out other 3rd party viewers and found that other 3rd party viewers also had the features I liked. I started using Kokua, because it more closely follows the updates to the SL viewer, and the interface is closer to the SL viewer (especially the opening screen) which is something I liked.

I do use the standard SL viewer quite a bit also.  The only thing now that is a drawback for me with the SL viewer is the smaller texture memory, but generally that's not a big issue for most of the places that I visit in SL.     

I do download the updated FS viewer the few times a year it is updated, and I try it out for familiarity with how it's handling new things, but for the past several years I have not found anything compelling enough in FS to switch back to it as my everyday viewer. 

I do think it is good for people who help other new users a lot to have some familiarity with the SL viewer and new functionality/features introduced in it.  In some ways the viewer recomendations in the forum - the overwhelming use FS because everyone is using it - reminds me of the majority of the female mesh body recommendations here (use Maitreya because everyone is and it's the only one everyone makes clothes for) instead of encouraging people to try out multiple options and finding the one that works best for them or that they are more comfortable with using (or wearing, in terms of a body).  

 

[Innula Zenovka]

40 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Can we do this in the Default viewer? Saving several graphic preferences, one for taking pictures, with shadows turned on and graphics on ultra. One for events with shadows turned off and graphics on low. One for exploring, with graphics on medium and longer draw distance. Just load what you need.

I must ask, because I never use the Default viewer, and I do not know if it has added some features.

Do you mean graphics presets?

 

[Sid Nagy]

I'm 14 years in SL and always have been on the official LL viewers.
I tried Firestorm a few times in other worlds, but I don't see why I should relearn to use this browser in SL.
The other TPV's I never tried.

There are no companies behind the third party viewers. No physical addresses or phone numbers. Nobody to go after in case of serious security issues.
That fact always kept me from using them as well.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Sid Nagy

[NiranV Dean]

38 minutes ago, belladonna Wexhome said:

Cause I am a total noon on any other viewer - I used to use catznip when it first came out - and then firestorm has more to offer.  I also like Singularity in the fact that it lets you see who is hiding from you - I think FS had that for a hot minute as well and then they got rid of it - I wish they wouldn't have.  Now I'm trying to learn Black Dragon for photos.

They got rid of that because it is the only sensible thing to do. You should not be able to see who is hiding from you, that's the sole point of hiding in the first place. It's called privacy and should not be circumvented.

Just now, Sid Nagy said:

I'm 14 years in SL and always have been on the official LL viewers.
I tried Firestorm a few times in other worlds, but I don't see why I should relearn to use this browser in SL.
The other TPV's I never tried.

There are no companies behind the third party viewers. No physical addresses or phone numbers. Nobody to go after in case of security issues.
That fact always kept me from using them as well.

What do you need a physical address or phone numbers for? I'd be kinda scared if someone just popped up in front of my door to tell me that there is a security issue, something they could have told me via the million other ways to contact someone (Mail, Discord, Inworld, Website, Forums and so on).

Edited July 16, 2021 by NiranV Dean

[MoiraKathleen]

45 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Can we do this in the Default viewer? Saving several graphic preferences, one for taking pictures, with shadows turned on and graphics on ultra. One for events with shadows turned off and graphics on low. One for exploring, with graphics on medium and longer draw distance. Just load what you need.

I must ask, because I never use the Default viewer, and I do not know if it has added some features.

Graphic presets were introduced first in the SL default viewer.  

[Sid Nagy]

 

15 minutes ago, NiranV Dean said:

What do you need a physical address or phone numbers for? I'd be kinda scared if someone just popped up in front of my door to tell me that there is a security issue, something they could have told me via the million other ways to contact someone (Mail, Discord, Inworld, Website, Forums and so on).

With serious security issues I mean logging in noticing that the L$ stash has irretrievable gone with the wind all of a sudden.
We discussed that before I think on VVO.

Not that I believe that there are crooks among the current TPV developers.
But I do have a phone number and physical address from LL and the RL names of the guys in charge.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Sid Nagy

[Rowan Amore]

I didn't realize the LL viewer didn't have area search.  Adding that to my list of just haves that firestorm offers.

[Doris Johnsky]

Like many, I migrated to Phoenix because all my friends were using it and they recommended it.  This was 11 years ago.

When Phoenix went down the tubes I migrated to the Emerald viewer. Not sure how many even remember it.

Finally when FS came out, it had the functions I was used to on Phoenix, so that's where I went.

I've looked at other viewers, but none seemed to be comfortable for me.  I have the LL viewer as a backup, but rarely use it. 

I looked into Black Dragon because I heard it was great for photos, but in looking at the website they explicitely warn you that it is a difficult viewer to use. I passed on it.   

[Innula Zenovka]

5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I didn't realize the LL viewer didn't have area search.  Adding that to my list of just haves that firestorm offers.

In the Official Viewer, Build>Region Objects finds everything I need, but it works only where I own the land or (I think) can return things.     It works where I need it to, anyway.

[Jackson Redstar]

for photographers and video makers having the phototool panel is really great - it allows for access to tings in either preferences or even debug settings. Plus Firestorm is stable for the most part - it just doesn't crash very often even in high lag situations

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

In the Official Viewer, Build>Region Objects finds everything I need, but it works only where I own the land or (I think) can return things.     It works where I need it to, anyway.

I use it at times when I'm at a store and want to find a particular item I've seen in a blog or a shopping event when I just want to run in, grab what I want and leave.  Invaluable to me.

[Lucia Nightfire]

3 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

On the subject of building tools, has anyone had a play with the Project CopyPaste Viewer?

Just an FYI, Vir Linden has mentioned that that project viewer may be scrapped.

[Innula Zenovka]

26 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I use it at times when I'm at a store and want to find a particular item I've seen in a blog or a shopping event when I just want to run in, grab what I want and leave.  Invaluable to me.

I want to use it like that at times, too, in which case I log in with Firestorm, but I don't need to use it for that specific purpose so frequently that it makes  me want to use Firestorm by default.

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Innula Zenovka

[Innula Zenovka]

4 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Just an FYI, Vir Linden has mentioned that that project viewer may be scrapped.

I'd heard they'd run into some intractable problems, too.   I forget what they were, but what they have got working seems very useful, and, at least to my inexpert eye, worth adding to the Official Viewer at some point.

[Lucia Nightfire]

1 hour ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I'd heard they'd run into some intractable problems, too.   I forget what they were, but what they have got working seems very useful, and, at least to my inexpert eye, worth adding to the Official Viewer at some point.

There are still bugs that need fixing. I've done extensive testing with that viewer as I also was interested in it.

Sadly, I only have guesses as to why they might scrap it, one being, that the new controls are of an advanced nature and might confuse new users.

IDK if this means they want to go back to the drawing board or leave things alone.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Lucia Nightfire

[Coffee Pancake]

57 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

I'm 14 years in SL and always have been on the official LL viewers.
I tried Firestorm a few times in other worlds, but I don't see why I should relearn to use this browser in SL.
The other TPV's I never tried.

There are no companies behind the third party viewers. No physical addresses or phone numbers. Nobody to go after in case of serious security issues.
That fact always kept me from using them as well.

ALL viewers listed on the TPV directory have submitted RL information to LL. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Contribution_Agreement

The TPV viewers that are able to upload mesh have also signed the havok sub licence. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Havok_Viewer_Sublicense

LL know exactly who we are.

In so far as liability etc, viewers are published under the LGPL2. So good luck "going after" anyone. https://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/lgpl-2.1.en.html

In the case of Firestorm, you're also incorrect - The Phoenix Firestorm Project Inc is a non-profit, incorporated organization https://www.firestormviewer.org/about/

Please stick with the official viewer. 

[Sid Nagy]

16 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Please stick with the official viewer. 

Of course I will.
No reason to do otherwise. The LL viewer is pretty good.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Sid Nagy

[NiranV Dean]

1 hour ago, Sid Nagy said:

 

With serious security issues I mean logging in noticing that the L$ stash has irretrievable gone with the wind all of a sudden.
We discussed that before I think on VVO.

Not that I believe that there are crooks among the current TPV developers.
But I do have a phone number and physical address from LL and the RL names of the guys in charge.

How would having them protect you from said issue? How does having LL's address protect you from them simply wiping your account? You and only you are responsible for what happens, LL clearly states that they are not in any way responsible for something that happens when using TPV's and having their addresses/phone numbers is going to help you how? Are you going to call them? Find them and beat them up at their door? I don't see how having this very private information protects or helps you even in the slightest, you wouldn't even be able to call the support, they would laugh at you.

Distrusting the developers is one thing and i can understand that but distrust because of a missing address/phone number... idk that sounds very far fetched.

Edited July 16, 2021 by NiranV Dean

[Coffee Pancake]

.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Coffee Pancake

[Arielle Popstar]

Another reason for Firestorm is that it has hands down the best support system for its users. That aspect alone is why I would tell any new person to immediately switch from the S/L viewer as it has no support inworld. I have pointed this out to the Lindens on a few occasions, basically telling them that we cannot take seriously their efforts at user retention when they do not even have a inworld group for their viewer. I myself wound up going to a TPV meeting just to find a feature I had heard they had but I couldn't find when I was doing some comparison testing.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Another reason for Firestorm is that it has hands down the best support system for its users. 

Firestorm support are excellent. They deserve a lot more recognition.

[Dragon Mommy]

Firestorm is my all around viewer. I use it for building, roleplay, making new outfits, etc. I'd say I use it about 70% of the time. 

Singularity is my viewer for roleplay, exploration, and some screenshots. It runs very well for my specific setup and I have filters that help increase visual fidelity. I find it is better as LOD than firestorm and it allows me to have a larger draw distance. I hate switching outfits / making new outfits in that viewer however. 

Black Dragon is my tailored screenshots viewer but I don't use it for anything else. 

I've also tried Caznip and Alchemy but haven't yet found the strengths of both. 

I think firestorm is the best 'all around' viewer and others have more specialized strengths. 

[ChinRey]

15 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Also, I can generally get by with Firestorm's built-in Animation Overrider for my lesser alts; it's not as flexible as a modern scripted AO (and scripted AOs don't contribute much script lag anymore) but the built-in one is plenty good enough for a starter avatar.

The built in AO is almost mandatory on the hypergrid but may be less relevant in SL. Still, it's one less object to clutter up the view.

But I don't change my animations very often. It's hard to find some that don't make my avatar move like a zombie or an uber-horny teen who hasn't seen a bathroom for two days. If I can find one such animation set, I reckon it's as good as it gets. If I could find one that didn't abuse the animation priority system, I would have been content.

Edited July 17, 2021 by ChinRey

[ChinRey]

4 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

With serious security issues I mean logging in noticing that the L$ stash has irretrievable gone with the wind all of a sudden.
We discussed that before I think on VVO.

Not that I believe that there are crooks among the current TPV developers.
But I do have a phone number and physical address from LL and the RL names of the guys in charge.

I may be wrong here but if I understand right, LL does keep an eye on the "official" TPV dev teams and are willing to vouch for them so that shouldn't be an issue.

Edited July 16, 2021 by ChinRey