Please consider non-US members

[Rat Luv]

Move to the UK...we have cr@p weather but at least you don't have to pay thousands to stay alive 😧 

So if somebody in the US needs Covid treatment and gets put on a ventilator, they have to pay after??

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, Rat Luv said:

Move to the UK...we have cr@p weather but at least you don't have to pay thousands to stay alive 😧 

So if somebody in the US needs Covid treatment and gets put on a ventilator, they have to pay after??

In most cases, yes.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/how-uninsured-patients-can-get-help-during-covid-19-pandemic

ETA.  Information was before the recent CARES act.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Rowan Amore

[JanuarySwan]

19 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

Move to the UK...we have cr@p weather but at least you don't have to pay thousands to stay alive 😧 

So if somebody in the US needs Covid treatment and gets put on a ventilator, they have to pay after??

The government is funding or paying hospitals a lot of money for Covid hospitalizations and ventilations as it's been part of the stimulus packages that have passed our Congress.  Our stimulus packages have not been all stimulus but have included many, many other things in them as well including reimbursing many hospitals.   Again, it's complicated as health care varies widely here in America since there is no one system type deal.  

Edited April 18, 2021 by JanuarySwan

[Rowan Amore]

58 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

Move to the UK...we have cr@p weather but at least you don't have to pay thousands to stay alive 😧 

So if somebody in the US needs Covid treatment and gets put on a ventilator, they have to pay after??

If uninsured, maybe yes and maybe no.  The care provider must submit your claim to the Health Resources & Services Administration to be reimbursed.

https://www.hhs.gov/coronavirus/cares-act-provider-relief-fund/for-patients/index.html

[Alwin Alcott]

1 hour ago, Rat Luv said:

Move to the UK...we have cr@p weather but at least you don't have to pay thousands to stay alive 😧

many forget it has to be paid somehow..
Next to billions of tax money, we ( in the Netherlands) have a 7% income tax by our employers, a average of personal basic insurance of 120/130 euros for everyone above 18, if you need teeth or other insurance it will add around 15 to 40 euro's .. the first 385 euro a year not covered by the insurance, and new invention.. a personal additional payment for many medications.
The total of costs per person.. including the post thats from the general tax incomes per person is around 5000/6000 euro's a year.
Please stop the illusion that healthcare here is free.

(note .. there are different other workrelated taxes for long term healthcare, disability and other health related situations ... we pay between 37 and 49.5% taxes even before we receive our salaries, to the state government, add between 100 and 400 euro a month to our local government, ánd also a part to the regional government and water management )

Edited April 18, 2021 by Alwin Alcott

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Rat Luv said:

So if somebody in the US needs Covid treatment and gets put on a ventilator, they have to pay after??

It depends on many factors:  Whether or not the person has health insurance.  What sort of insurance they have.  If they are not insured, then their income might factor in.  Where are they getting the treatment.  Etc, etc, etc......

Edited April 18, 2021 by LittleMe Jewell

[Rejha Vuckovic]

Here in Germany it I pay 44% of my sallary for Taxes, Gouvernmental Insurances (Healthcate, Unemployment, Pension, Care) and some other Taxes.

 

Back to Secondlife and Topic:

Additionally I have to pay 19% VAT for all I pay related to Secondlife

And as written before the US$ Exchange-rate is a joke regarding €.

Example 10.000L$ = 43,33US$ = 36,16€ (official exchange 18.04.2021)

What Tilla wants:

40,27€ = 48,37US$ --> 5,04US$ more --> 11,63% exchange fee

==> This is usury and according EU laws forbidden as the exchange Fees are regulated

It is funny to see what is all allowed in the USA

As far as I saw they don't have any licence in Europe at the ECB and so no european Laws apply.

 

So the only thing Europeans can do is not to buy Linden anymore and stop support economy in Secodlife as long as they see us as Cows they can milk!

 

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Rejha Vuckovic

[KristineOz]

It's plain wrong to be charged TAX (GST) by a non-Australian company.

Adding 10.0000% VAT (Australia) for "Premium Membership" charge of $32.97

It is GST in Australia (not VAT)

The Goods and Services Tax is charged in Australia by Australian companies and goes to the Australian Government.

I will be forwarding my Payment Notification to the ATO: Australian Tax Office.

I can't wait for the ATO to knock on Linden's door and  demand the GST it's owed.

Disgraceful money grab Linden

[Mollymews]

9 minutes ago, KristineOz said:

The Goods and Services Tax is charged in Australia by Australian companies and goes to the Australian Government.

in 2017 Australia changed their law.  Non-resident (overseas) companies providing remote services to people living in Australia were required to register with the Australia tax department and charge GST. The law changed again in 2018 to cover imported goods as well

Linden now collect the 10% payment and pay to the Australia tax department as they are required to by australian law

[Alwin Alcott]

16 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

in 2017 Australia changed their law.  Non-resident (overseas) companies providing remote services to people living in Australia were required to register with the Australia tax department and charge GST. The law changed again in 2018 to cover imported goods as well

Linden now collect the 10% payment and pay to the Australia tax department as they are required to by australian law

VAT is often misunderstood .. it's not the collecting company that "likes" to do it and has a choice as so... it's ( in this case EU too) our own governments forcing by law others to do it for them. The fact that LL does swallow some of the VAT, as example yearly premium, goes straight to their own expenses (=less profit)

[Mollymews]

1 minute ago, Alwin Alcott said:

VAT is often misunderstood .. it's not the collecting company that "likes" to do it and has a choice as so... it's ( in this case EU too) our own governments forcing by law others to do it for them. The fact that LL does swallow some of the VAT, as example yearly premium, goes straight to their own expenses (=less profit)

yes

the desire to have overseas companies collect GST for sales within a country, has a lot to do with the domestic providers. That when the domestic providers have to add and collect GST/VAT and foreign companies don't then it puts the domestic providers at a pricing disadvantage in the marketplace

consumers of remote/internet services who can get cheaper prices overseas will do so

[Alwin Alcott]

10 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

consumers of remote/internet services who can get cheaper prices overseas will do so

one example in SLto avoid at least partially the VAT's is common in  the landholding, private regions and also mainland are up to 20%, or other local rate ( or more for mainland because there's no premium fee) cheaper when renting, than owning.
(note; for private persons only, businesses can often settle the VAT or are exempt)

[Rat Luv]

3 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

The total of costs per person.. including the post thats from the general tax incomes per person is around 5000/6000 euro's a year.
Please stop the illusion that healthcare here is free.
 

Yes fair enough, and I am not good at maths. We also pay taxes and national insurance for the NHS. But that's still nowhere near 900 a month, or 30,000 to deliver a baby...

Edited April 18, 2021 by Rat Luv

[Alwin Alcott]

22 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

Yes fair enough, and I am not good at maths. We also pay taxes and national insurance for the NHS. But that's still nowhere near 900 a month, or 30,000 to deliver a baby...

don't know where your from, but here some more european amounts , quote from here

 

• In 2017, the UK spent £2,989 per person on healthcare, which was around the median for members of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development: OECD (£2,913 per person).

• However, of the G7 group of large, developed economies, UK healthcare spending per person was the second-lowest, with the highest spenders being France (£3,737), Germany (£4,432) and the United States (£7,736).

• As a percentage of GDP, UK healthcare spending fell from 9.8% in 2013 to 9.6% in 2017, while healthcare spending as a percentage of GDP rose for four of the remaining six G7 countries.

• The UK’s publicly funded NHS-based health system contributes to the UK having one of the highest shares of publicly funded healthcare (79%) in the OECD.

• In 2017, the UK spent the equivalent of £560 per person on health-related long-term care, which was less than most other northern or western European countries, but a similar amount to France (£569) and Canada (£556).

Edited April 18, 2021 by Alwin Alcott

[Phil Deakins]

14 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

My post was directed at Arduenn whom I assumed to be American. Jump to erroneous conclusions much? 

Don't argue with them. Your post was obviously directed at Arduenn, and that's exactly how it read. They were wrong. The fact the he's Dutch is irrelevant.

[RunawayBunny]

3 hours ago, Rejha Vuckovic said:

So the only thing Europeans can do is not to buy Linden anymore and stop support economy in Secodlife as long as they see us as Cows they can milk!

This is not related with SL. Same thing exist in steam and google play. This is what they should do they comply with your country's law. They provide a service and your country includes a tax.. asking for a discount because your country demands high tax.. kinda strange. You are getting service in your country for the tax you are paying for (Health, Unemployment, Pension, Care care etc..).

Edited April 18, 2021 by RunawayBunny

[Rejha Vuckovic]

17 minutes ago, RunawayBunny said:

This is not related with SL. Same thing exist in steam and google play. This is what they should do they comply with your country's law. They provide a service and you country includes a tax.. asking for a discount because your country demands high tax.. kinda strange. You are getting service in your country for the tax you are paying for (Health, Unemployment, Pension, Care care etc..).

Yes, I have Steam and I am not aware that I pay massive more for a game than an USA-Citizen is doing.

 

Or does anybody pay for a game more ouside of USA there?

According this Database not!

https://steamdb.info/app/1222670/

 

This is related to € currancy, so Counties with harder Courrancy it is more in €

[RunawayBunny]

8 minutes ago, Rejha Vuckovic said:

Yes, I have Steam and I am not aware that I pay massive more for a game than an USA-Citizen is doing.

You do pay more compared to other countries. Stream have fixed exchange ratio values for some countries (and different exchange ratios for countries). If I send (gift) a game some one in EU they will have it at low price. TBH not sure this related with taxes.

https://steamdb.info/app/1222670/

Game price tag 4,79€ in EU. Turkish price tag ₺33,59. (1€ = ₺9,66) Real value of game in Turkish Lira ₺160,89

For your example lets compare it to USA 4,79€ = $4.79 you are still paying more because € and $ not equal.

Games still subject to tax with no fixed exchange values with their in game currency and in game market. If you check in game cash shops they will charge you more than other countries because of taxes.

[ValKalAstra]

On Steam, the publishers will set the conversion rates. Some are fairer than others and just about all of them will adjust to a market's purchasing power.

Taxes is one of those Gotcha arguments thrown about, that in reality fall apart, because the price increase often goes way beyond the tax rate. Case in point, your example lists Switzerland as being 22.08% higher for Sims 4. That's three times the tax rate.

They charge what they think they can get away with, not what someone might deem fair.

[Rejha Vuckovic]

25 minutes ago, RunawayBunny said:

You do pay more compared to other countries. Stream have fixed exchange ratio values for some countries (and different exchange ratios for countries). If I send (gift) a game some one in EU they will have it at low price. TBH not sure this related with taxes.

https://steamdb.info/app/1222670/

Game price tag 4,79€ in EU. Turkish price tag ₺33,59. (1€ = ₺9,66) Real value of game in Turkish Lira ₺160,89

For your example lets compare it to USA 4,79€ = $4.79 you are still paying more because € and $ not equal.

Games still subject to tax with no fixed exchange values with their in game currency and in game market. If you check in game cash shops they will charge you more than other countries because of taxes.

Lets Compare:

 

Steam

USA: 4,79us$ = 4,00€

Germany: 4,79€ = 5,69us$ = 18,9% (less than 19% VAT + no currancy fee exchange + full suport in German and respecting EU Laws)

 

How LL is handling:

Pay LL something (Tier, Premiummember,..) worth 4,79US$ = 6,58€ = 7,88US$ = 64,5% more than US-Citizen

So more than 19% (German) VAT + no support in EU + not respecting EU Laws (you simply can't judge them in Europe like Steam, you have to do it in California).

 

You see, 45,6% more than Steam for not being able to get full support in Europe.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Rejha Vuckovic

[RunawayBunny]

6 minutes ago, Rejha Vuckovic said:

Pay LL something (Tier, Premiummember,..) worth 4,79US$ = 6,58€ = 7,88US$ = 64,5% more than US-Citizen

About that I agree seems strange.

[Claireschen Hesten]

12 hours ago, Rat Luv said:

Move to the UK...we have cr@p weather but at least you don't have to pay thousands to stay alive 😧 

So if somebody in the US needs Covid treatment and gets put on a ventilator, they have to pay after??

YouTube recommended me this video haven't seen all of it but people getting treated for covid in the US are having to pay thousands. treatment/meds are so expensive there are people either missing or reducing their medication to be able to afford it. It makes me really appreciate living in the UK where healthcare is free

 

[Rat Luv]

42 minutes ago, Claireschen Hesten said:

YouTube recommended me this video haven't seen all of it but people getting treated for covid in the US are having to pay thousands. treatment/meds are so expensive there are people either missing or reducing their medication to be able to afford it. It makes me really appreciate living in the UK where healthcare is free

 

That is depressing  

I find the US system really scary and confusing. Surely there must be lots of legal compensation claims when doctors mess things up? 

[FairreLilette]

38 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

That is depressing  

I find the US system really scary and confusing. Surely there must be lots of legal compensation claims when doctors mess things up? 

It's a confusing mess here, Rat.  A lot of older people in America retire on something called Medicare.  Medicare pays for most of the health care cost for retirees.  Medicare is different from Medicaid.  Medicaid is not so good from things I've heard.  

My niece used to be a nurse but then she went on to be a bartender for reasons I cannot remember now.  But, when she became pregnant, my sister paid for her health care which was $550 dollars a month; this was two years ago.  My niece is a juvenile onset diabetic since age 5 so this was considered a high risk pregnancy.  My niece did go into early labor with the baby and the baby stayed in the hospital for five weeks before the baby could go home.  I'm sure the bill the health insurance paid must have been about a half million dollars.  Where on earth do health care insurance providers come up with this kind of money in the first place?  My niece nor sister did not have to pay a half million dollars, it was the health insurance company that paid that bill.  My niece and her fiancé currently cannot be married because they have jobs with no health insurance and are looking for jobs with health insurance now.  If my niece stays single, she can get assistance and health care from the state for unwed mothers but she and her fiancé would like to get married.  

Most jobs in America did come with health insurance as companies used to get what is called a group plan and it was cheaper health insurance that way.  Things have changed.  Looking up the current stats, less than half of American's are covered by a group plan today. 

Edited April 18, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Drake1 Nightfire]

1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

Where on earth do health care insurance providers come up with this kind of money in the first place? 

Easy math..

lets say 150,000,000 people in the US pay for health insurance. 

It costs $550 a month. 

150,000,000 X 550 = 82,500,000,000 thats 82 BILLION dollars a month.  How many people do you think are costing them half a mill? Health Insurance and auto insurance are the most lucrative businesses out there.