Please consider non-US members

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Easy math..

lets say 150,000,000 people in the US pay for health insurance. 

It costs $550 a month. 

150,000,000 X 550 = 82,500,000,000 thats 82 BILLION dollars a month.  How many people do you think are costing them half a mill? Health Insurance and auto insurance are the most lucrative businesses out there. 

Did any insurance companies need a bailout in 2008?

[ChinRey]

20 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Healthcare in the US is NOT affordable. Prescription costs are insane. 

Since this thread has gone off on a tangent anyway. Regardless of whether it's paid through the taxes or separately, why is healthcare so much more expensive in USA than in other developed countries?

2019 healthcare spending per capita for some countries according to wikipedia:

• Finland: USD 4,578
• Iceland: USD 4,811
• Canada: USD 5,418
• Denmark: USD 5,568
• Netherlands: USD 5,765
• Sweden: USD 5,782
• Germany: USD 6,646
• Norway: USD 6,647
• Switzerland: USD 7,732
• USA: USD 11,072

All the other countries on this list offer free healthcare for everybody, some of them even for visiting foreigners, comparable to what you have to be upper middle class or higher to afford in USA, yet they manage to do it far cheaper.

Edited April 18, 2021 by ChinRey

[Rowan Amore]

36 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

Since this thread has gone off on a tangent anyway. Regardless of whether it's paid through the taxes or separately, why is healthcare so much more expensive in USA than in other developed countries?

2019 healthcare spending per capita for some countries acording to wikipedia:

• Finland: USD 4,578
• Iceland: USD 4,811
• Canada: USD 5,418
• Denmark: USD 5,568
• Netherlands: USD 5,765
• Sweden: USD 5,782
• Germany: USD 6,646
• Norway: USD 6,647
• Switzerland: USD 7,732
• USA: USD 11,072

All the other countries on this list offer free healthcare for everybody, at least some of them even for visiting foreigners, comparable to what you have to be upper middle class or higher to afford in USA, yet they manage to do it far cheaper.

We've been asking ourselves that same question for years.

[Sid Nagy]

As long as using the words government, regulation and taxes are almost seen as swearing in the USA, the States will be miles away from the standards in infrastructure, medical care and public education etc., where most of the Western Europeans are used to.

[LittleMe Jewell]

Just from a few articles via a quick search, some reasons it costs more in the US:

Hospitals Are Profit Centers -- and the US Healthcare is based on a "for profit insurance system".

U.S. Healthcare Practices Defensive Medicine in an effort to prevent lawsuits -- lawsuits are ridiculously high in the US

The average U.S. family doctor earns $218,173 a year, and specialists make $316,000—way above the the average in other industrialized countries. American nurses make considerably more than elsewhere, too. The average salary for a U.S. nurse is about $74,250, compared to $58,041 in Switzerland and $60,253 in the Netherlands.

Because of the complexity of the system and the lack of any set prices for medical services, providers are free to charge what the market will bear. The amount paid for the same healthcare service can vary significantly depending on the payer (i.e. private insurance or government programs, such as Medicare or Medicaid) and geographical area.

 

I imagine those reasons are only the tip of the iceberg

 

[Theresa Linden]

Hi!

Thanks for participating in this thread. Everyone, please help to keep this thread on on topic. It originally started as a discussion concerning Tilia's exchange rates for non US Residents. Let's continue to discuss that.

 

Much appreciated!

[KristineOz]

18 hours ago, Mollymews said:

Linden now collect the 10% payment and pay to the Australia tax department as they are required to by australian law

Then Linden does not need to worry... I'll still check with the ATO that Linden is paying 

[Mollymews]

1 minute ago, KristineOz said:

Then Linden does not need to worry... I'll still check with the ATO that Linden is paying 

yes of course, I agree with you doing this. Is always better when we find out for ourselves what is actually happening with our own money

[ChinRey]

8 hours ago, Theresa Linden said:

Thanks for participating in this thread. Everyone, please help to keep this thread on on topic. It originally started as a discussion concerning Tilia's exchange rates for non US Residents. Let's continue to discuss that.

That's nice of you to say. A more cynical company than Linden Lab would only have been happy to see a discussion about the fees they charge being diverted.

The immediate solution to the problem was mentioned early in the thread: use PayPal or some other institution that specializes in online microtransactions. They have the routines for it in place so they can do it much cheaper. They have no choice either. They wouldn't last long if there were obvious differences in the quality and price of their services depending on where on earth the customer lived.

But with that being said, wasn't the whole idea behind splitting off Tilia to turn it into an online microtransaction specialist? If so, this is something they need to sort out. If they don't, they don't stand a chance.

Edited April 19, 2021 by ChinRey

[Sid Nagy]

1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

But with that being said, wasn't the whole idea behind splitting off Tilia to turn it into an online microtransaction specialist? If so, this is something they need to sort out. If they don't, they don't stand a chance.

That, a thousand times that.
Customers will not sit there and let themselves be robbed through high fees. They will find cheaper solutions.
You simply can't charge the same rates and tarifs on mirco transactions as banks and CC charge on bigger transactions.
That is the surest way to end up dead in the water.

Not knowing or ignoring the costumer base kills companies and potential great ideas IMHO.
Want an example of that near to home?  It starts with an S and it ends on ansar.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Sid Nagy
Every post should at least be edited once.

[Anna Nova]

I find this whole discussion strange.

What I have always done, and what I naively thought most people did, was to set a budget for my SL engagement.  I used to budget 100 UKP, but I have reduced this now to 25 UKP as I have divested all my mainland.  I set up a Standing Order with my bank to transfer the budget to Paypal once a month.  I then go to Paypal when I need L$ and convert enough UKP to USD.  All my SL payments come from there in USD.  Tilia's exchange rate is irrelevant.

Hope that helps someone.  I was not trying to criticise anyone else's method.

[Sid Nagy]

I don't use a real budget, but I have a monthly cap for myself.
Premium plus 25 Euro a month.
And because the Marketplace sales are up, I seldom need all the 25 EU in a month these a days.

Not being into the fashion-mesh bodies rat race helps a lot too.
I'm not afraid to use mesh clothing that is years old aldready.

And I agree, that Europeans who don't use Paypal in combination with one of their other RL bank accounts are stealing from their own wallet by using CC and Tilia for the exchange.
 

[Arielle Popstar]

4 hours ago, Anna Nova said:

I then go to Paypal when I need L$ and convert enough UKP to USD.  All my SL payments come from there in USD.  Tilia's exchange rate is irrelevant.

Hope that helps someone.  I was not trying to criticise anyone else's method.

In my defense I changed from Paypal to adding a canadian credit card figuring I would save money by cutting out PayPal as a middleman. Ouch. 

I just looked through all of Tilia's and relevant S/L pages involving the buying and selling of Lindens and Premium and nowhere do I find any reference to their currency conversion fees. Would have thought they would be required by law to have it prominently displayed. Strikes me as a little underhanded considering the excessive amount they charge.

[Dragon Mommy]

If you are in Canada and at the whims of the ever changing USD to CAD currency your bank may also have an option to set up a USD account and credit card in the same currency, allowing you to convert at the best time and avoid fees. 

I admittedly haven't been doing that for SL but I should start. I already have it set up for my other purchases I need to make in USD. 

[Arielle Popstar]

So while in a conversation with Billing enquiry on another matter, I asked about their currency conversion fees and was told that Tilia itself does not do the conversion and therefore does not have an associated fee. The conversion and fee charged is done by the payment method I have setup whether Paypal, Credit Card, or bank.

[LittleMe Jewell]

7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

So while in a conversation with Billing enquiry on another matter, I asked about their currency conversion fees and was told that Tilia itself does not do the conversion and therefore does not have an associated fee. The conversion and fee charged is done by the payment method I have setup whether Paypal, Credit Card, or bank.

Typically, credit cards have always given me the best exchange rate.

 

Their statement is interesting though since LL's knowledgebase says that they can accept payment in a few different currencies. 

To me, that implies that they accept the payment in those other currencies and then they convert it.

 

[Arielle Popstar]

4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Their statement is interesting though since LL's knowledgebase says that they can accept payment in a few different currencies. 

To me, that implies that they accept the payment in those other currencies and then they convert it.

 

Interesting in that I asked him if he was sure there was no conversion fees and he reiterated that there was not. Possible the Knowledgebase is old information they have not updated yet?

[LittleMe Jewell]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

 Possible the Knowledgebase is old information they have not updated yet?

That is a definite possibility.  LL is great at not keeping their various information pages updated.

[Arielle Popstar]

Further update. I did finally purchase $100.00 US of Lindens and in spite of the assurances by the billing department that Tilia does not charge conversion fees and that they request the funds in US$ from the payment source, the overall amount wound up being $13.00 more than the Credit Card company said it should be based on the current Canadian conversion rate + 2.5% fee. Wires are crossed somewhere.

[Silent Mistwalker]

On 4/17/2021 at 12:09 PM, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'd gladly pay more for universal pharmacare and dental care (both of which, I think, are coming), and an end to our crappy treatment of our indigenous peoples.

Also, more action on homelessness, please.

😬 🤐

[Malko Rosca]

On 4/21/2021 at 8:45 PM, Arielle Popstar said:

Further update. I did finally purchase $100.00 US of Lindens and in spite of the assurances by the billing department that Tilia does not charge conversion fees and that they request the funds in US$ from the payment source, the overall amount wound up being $13.00 more than the Credit Card company said it should be based on the current Canadian conversion rate + 2.5% fee. Wires are crossed somewhere.

This is also the answer I got from Tilia - it's your bank rate - This is a lie. Either they take into account an approximation (their footnote on transaction slip) but they never adjust once the conversion has been done by the bank and as such they make a nice profit on the change - about 5EUR on a 10.000Linden transaction. Or they define their own change rate and try to put the blame on your bank. I don't know if they would charge PayPal in US$ and let PayPal define the change rate ? If so it would make sense to switch to PayPal paiement for Linden purchase.