Your avatar is you? Or just a computer generated graphic to play with?

[FairreLilette]

Characters - all of them.  I sometimes like to think I am making a robot as opposed to an avatar and what do I want my robot to look like this time.  One time, a long time ago, my avatar was based around Stevie Nicks.  I loved that wardrobe!    I didn't come to SL for any dating and I do not date in SL.  This is fun time.  Relationships are serious business.

Edited March 4, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Lewis Luminos]

On 3/2/2021 at 7:23 AM, Doc Carling said:

Do you see your Avatar as mirror of your real self? Or rather as a computer generated fantasy character that has nothing in common with your real person? Perhaps a character that you would like to be in real life? Well, I don't expect outings. lol But I noticed that some residents seems to consider their avatar and themselves as one and the same person.

More than just a mirror, my main avatar and my RL self are one and the same person, and my avatar's appearance is based on what Morpheus from the Matrix would have called Residual Self Image. I saw myself in dreams like this long before Second Life existed, so when I decided to make my third avatar as a representative of me (as opposed to a character) I knew right from the start that I would resemble that, and I've barely changed it since 2008 (aside from quality upgrades).  The main differences are my body shape and the colour of my hair. I'm not ginger in RL, and I'm not as fit or as young and good looking in RL as I am in SL, but those things are superficial. In every way that matters, my avatar is all me. If you are talking to my avatar in SL you are talking to the real me just as clearly as you would be if you were sitting beside me in RL. 

My alts on the other hand... my other accounts are mostly based on characters I've written stories about, or role-played with, or they're just characters who lodge in my head. My first two accounts represented the same character (I lost the password for the first one, made another, then recovered the first one years later). Later accounts are different characters. Frankie is different again, he was specifically made to look the way he does to represent my club, and his personality came after. 

These alt accounts are not 100% separate from me, there's always some slight overlap; either there's a little bit of me in them, or a little bit of them in me. Some of them are snippets of my past. But they are themselves, they have different personalities, different styles, even different interests. It surprises me sometimes how different they feel when I log out of one and into another.  

 

[FairreLilette]

On 3/2/2021 at 4:29 PM, Paul Hexem said:

That's not really how words work.

Or are we doing this like when people say "my truth" when they make up nonsense and change facts?

My truth is, my avatar is a moving image that acts as a proxy for me in SL.

I used to feel that way.  Then, I changed.  Avatars, to me, progressively became more like robots and what could I make my robot be or represent outside of myself as a unique creation rather than a digital clone of me.  I want to make something beyond me.  It may sound unusual, but my avatars are robots to me now.  But, very cool robots.  I think robots are very cool and I'm having an interesting experience thinking and seeing and reaching outside of myself making robots with their persona, a unique thing unto themselves.  

Edited March 5, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Monalisa Robbiani]

Both. She isn't the same species even so obviously she isn't just a virtual representation of myself but a different entity with her own name and history. But of course she is also "me" in the sense that I identify with her. I even feel her personal space violated when someone runs into her or stands too close.

[Katherine Heartsong]

On 3/4/2021 at 6:00 PM, Karly Kiyori said:

Neither, really, but something in-between.

Not a mirror but more like an abstract portrait of myself. A representation, not an imitation.  My avatar and I do not share anything in common appearance-wise but we share personality, opinions, moral stance etc.

Pretty much this. As an artist IRL, I love that phrase you used, "abstract portrait of myself".

I don't even share the same RL sex of my SL avatar, but "she" is still me, in almost every sense that matters. It's still the real me behind my actions and interactions, since there's no real way for me to act otherwise. Can I role-play other personality types in SL? I could, and I appreciate those folks who do, but the point of SL for me is to explore aspects of me such as gender and desire that real world is less comfortable seeing, or I feel unable to fully express.

I can also play with themes outrageously while having fun as well ... full on cyberpunk angel, TWI deer or lion, etc, that I just can't do in RL. But even in those avatars, I still behave fundamentally like I do IRL.

[BelindaN]

I'm closest in concept to what Lewis @Lewis Luminos said up there ^^^

These alt accounts are not 100% separate from me, there's always some slight overlap; either there's a little bit of me in them, or a little bit of them in me. Some of them are snippets of my past. But they are themselves, they have different personalities, different styles, even different interests. It surprises me sometimes how different they feel when I log out of one and into another.  

I made my first avi using matching parameters to myself, so small, blonde, freckled olive skin. I behave "more or less" the same in RL as in SL.

My alts provide some additional experiences!

[Madelaine McMasters]

On 3/2/2021 at 6:54 PM, Doc Carling said:

The word avatar lets space for fantasy. The word truth not.

From Webster, the first definition for "fantasy" is...

the power or process of creating especially unrealistic or improbable mental images in response to psychological need

The truth is that our minds are quite capable of needing and/or wanting more than the physical world affords.

If you think truth doesn't allow space for fantasy, explain religion.

[Love Zhaoying]

15 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

If you think truth doesn't allow space for fantasy, explain religion.

I always liked those cartoons about Ancient Romans, with the word spelled "TRVTH". 

[Doc Carling]

59 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

f you think truth doesn't allow space for fantasy, explain religion.

What has the truth to do with religion? Isn't relgion founded on believe?

[Love Zhaoying]

41 minutes ago, Doc Carling said:

Isn't relgion founded on believe?

Do you mean faith?

[Doc Carling]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Do you mean faith?

I meant what I said: Believe. Believe that God exists and don't ask for proofs. Where is the truth part? Anyway, I guess that's too far off topic.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Doc Carling

[Nalates Urriah]

 

16 minutes ago, Doc Carling said:

I meant what I said: Believe. Believe that God exists and don't ask for proofs. Where is the truth part? Anyway, I guess that's too far off topic.

You are off topic... The non-believers usually believe in Darwinian evolution, which the Royal Society of London gave up on in 2015. Believers that go with blind faith do the same thing non-believers do. Basically, neither question their beliefs nor look for proof. This means both end up arguing opinion, meaning neither is likely to be persuasive.

I will point out that the biblical account never asks for or requires blind faith. Most Christian believers forget 1 Peter 3:15 which requires a Christian to be able provide reasons for their belief. Few Christians understand what faith is nor what Peter was writing about. Blind faith is not a reason.

In this thread we are explaining how we conceptualize our avatar and how we related to it. Those are statements of fact. I think my avatar is... is a statement of prima fascia fact, unless we claim a person is lying. As only one person can truly know what they think, it is difficult to honestly challenge such a statement.

Humans are known to suffer multiple-personality-disorders. I think that shows humans are capable of creating complete unique alternate multiple personalities. Whether some of us are delusional is not even a debatable subject here. We are and I for one enjoy it. The debatable part is solely a mater of who is and how much. 🤪

I see my avatar as a unique personality and it is one I made up. She is a way I experiment with behavior and express my ideas.

[Mollymews]

16 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Darwinian evolution, which the Royal Society of London gave up on in 2015

can you link a source for this please. I would be interested in reading as the Royal Society still lists Darwin's work on their website and says that the work is not disputed on scientific grounds

[Nalates Urriah]

3 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

can you link a source for this please. I would be interested in reading as the Royal Society still lists Darwin's work on their website and says that the work is not disputed on scientific grounds

There are several places where you can find where they acknowledged the short coming of Darwin's Hypothesis.  Search Results

Don't be surprised to find most institutions still claiming Darwin or Neo-Darwin is their model for evolution. The Scientific community is big on canceling anyone that strays from the official line. But with the deeper and deeper exploration of biology and information theory Darwin's idea is not holding up.

[Mollymews]

15 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

There are several places where you can find where they acknowledged the short coming of Darwin's Hypothesis.  Search Results

Don't be surprised to find most institutions still claiming Darwin or Neo-Darwin is their model for evolution. The Scientific community is big on canceling anyone that strays from the official line. But with the deeper and deeper exploration of biology and information theory Darwin's idea is not holding up.

the search links provided don't show any proof that the Royal Society gave on Darwin's work

on the contrary what the links do show are proofs of Darwin's work

like the 3rd one on the list: https://scitechdaily.com/cambridge-researcher-finally-proves-one-of-darwins-evolution-theories/

it proofs Darwin's work from Chapter 3: On the Origins of Species

[Luna Bliss]

6 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

Darwin

 

[xBaeBeex]

Totally not me..ugh i'd be so bored to create myself.. i dont have any backstory or reason I look the way I do in the game, I just pick outfits and hair i think are cute.. more like a barbie doll than anything else

[Love Zhaoying]

23 hours ago, Doc Carling said:

I meant what I said: Believe. Believe that God exists and don't ask for proofs. Where is the truth part? Anyway, I guess that's too far off topic.

Yeah, that's the definition of faith.

[archangel969]

I never met someone on SL who thought of his or her avatar as just a computer generated graphic. Maybe the first minutes, but soon you blow life into this graphic doll. That's what people do, don't they? Blow life into things. For me, it really presents a part of me. Not all of me, but just the part I like to be presented in SL and is suited there. There are no rules for this and it is different for everyone. But it's something you know when you are getting ued to living in SL. At a point you KNOW which part of you is in SL and then you also add some things that weren't there in RL and only excist in SL so it becomes a whole new personage, but there will allways be a part of you in it. And my main charasteristics I always take with me: the elegant clumsiness, also in RL I stumble trough life with style, (I then remember the quote from ballet legend Sonia Gaskell: If you fall, always make something of it!) Also I take with me the insatiable curiosity about special things in life, my love of music and art.

Edited March 10, 2021 by archangel969

[Orwar]

   My avatar very much was and is a representation of my aesthetic ideals, the only difference between RL and SL is that I don't refer to myself as a vampire in RL, other than that I act much the same way. It's the same personality, the same ideas, thoughts, desires; I don't role play a character, I'm just myself, if anything just less inhibited. I gave up trying to make my avi look like a virtual version of myself a long time ago though. 

   Then there are my alts .. Neither of them were intended to be anything but photo models, but it's been a creative process wherein they've both developed personalities and attitudes, that whilst obviously still are entirely within my domain of personality more strongly represent different sides thereof. I've also distributed some of my activities across them as I found that more convenient in terms of organisation; if I want to go for a drive or sail, I'll use my main, if I want to explore the railroads, I'll pick the alt who I bought the train, if I want to go riding or do some farming stuff, I go to my other alt. This has further increased the differentiation between the three - and if I want to RP, I can choose whichever character I want, depending on what role I'm in the mood to play.

[QuietEventide]

I see most SL avatars as images of people's souls (to a varying extent depending on the person behind the avatar).
In here we can create our own body to match our soul. Isn't that amazing?
Yes it is a virtual body, but it is a body nevertheless.

If I were to create a replica of my RL self ... the resulting avatar would look more like Yaphet in "The Orville" sci-fi series and nobody wants to see that (sigh...). 😁
But the soul is infinite. In SL we have the tools to make pretty things. I like the "image of my soul" to look nice.

Creativity is part of the avatar styling as well - half a century ago I liked to draw clothes for cutout dolls and paint them with crayons. Today all of that is available in 3D and I don't need the crayons anymore. We I don't write novels stories using pen and paper anymore - We I don't even use Gutenberg's printing press laser printers now that there's Kindle.

One of my favorite CS Lewis quotes:
"You ARE a soul. You HAVE a body."

Sometimes I think part of the answer to the "chicken and egg" question might lurk somewhere in SL too.  🙂
You created your avatar – and it was created ... – specifically for you.

"You are the universe..." (Brand New Heavies, 1997)

Edited March 10, 2021 by QuietEventide
Clarification was needed that I was only speaking for myself and not on behalf of anyone else.

[Orwar]

2 hours ago, QuietEventide said:

we don't even use Gutenberg's printing press now that there's Kindle.

   I object to this statement.

   Kindle has not replaced printing, nor will it do so within the foreseeable future, any more than Wikipedia having a few pictures of the Louvre's contents has somehow replaced people visiting it to admire the art collections in person. Nor has Google image searches stopped people from collecting stamps or art, or Netflix made the cinema obsolete, or Spotify made vinyl collectors extinct - and there most certainly are people who enjoy physical cut-out dolls to this day.

   It wasn't that many years ago that a Swedish book artist decided to make a book 'from scratch', hand-carving matrices to cast type, creating rag paper in a stamping mill, mixed the ink by hand, set and printed a book series in a replica Gutenberg press, and hand-bound the entire print for distribution. It's not how most books are made today, certainly, but I can't even find a copy of the book that's up for sale at present. 

   Whilst that's obviously rather an extreme example, I'd dare say that the general consensus among book collectors, bookbinders and book artists alike, is that a book text that has been printed with physical type, that has that minute impression into the page, can never be outdone by modern laser or inkjet printers - let alone by a monitor - in how the page feels to the touch and how the light is cast onto it. Of course, modern printing methods has developed absolutely marvelous resolution for high quality images, and Kindles are absolutely brilliant tools for when you're commuting or travelling, and saves you buying cumbersome pocket books (which's printing quality tends to be astonishingly horrid on average, though better and worse samples certainly exist). 

   The technological progress of how we produce and consume written media does not compete with the old methods, but compliment them. 

   P.S. I found a copy of the book listed on an online auction, it ended two years ago - the copy is described as 'slightly used' and cost 5,000 crowns - roughly $587. By Swedish standards, and for a book that was relatively new (the artist is still alive and, as far as I know, productive), that's a really good price (you can occasionally find hand bound half-leather bindings second hand for a hundred crowns or so, if your'e lucky).

Edited March 10, 2021 by Orwar

[QuietEventide]

I was really only comparing creative tools of different eras...
SL is obviously more than just a creative tool, but it can also be used as a creative tool - in addition to other things.

Be that as it may – I have removed the little word "we", from my original statement.
Instead, the singular form "I" has been inserted, to clarify that I was only speaking for myself.

This thread was about avatars and how we look at them. The use of the printing press as an example was merely an illustrative example, and a secondary one at that.

Edited March 10, 2021 by QuietEventide

[AutumnSu]

My avatar is definitely a reflection of who I am. Our appearances differ significantly, though prior to this most recent change, her features resembled the ones I have in real life. Her look is where I find the most joy in trying out different things and experimenting. Other than that, my moral stances, beliefs, and behaviors are the same. I try to customize her in a way that most suits/reflects who I am, which in turn, also helps me discover who I am and what I like. 

Edited March 10, 2021 by AutumnSu

[Nalates Urriah]

On 3/8/2021 at 4:35 PM, Mollymews said:

the search links provided don't show any proof that the Royal Society gave on Darwin's work

on the contrary what the links do show are proofs of Darwin's work

like the 3rd one on the list: https://scitechdaily.com/cambridge-researcher-finally-proves-one-of-darwins-evolution-theories/

it proofs Darwin's work from Chapter 3: On the Origins of Species

Lets avoid derailing this thread and go over here: